Southernbella.
Well-Known Member
classimami713 said:Off topic, but lauren, your hair is gorgeous!
Thank you! So is yours!
classimami713 said:Off topic, but lauren, your hair is gorgeous!
latia said:I don't have a problem submitting if the man's talk matches his walk. I do have a problem with males that use that word loosely and don't actively worship God.
lauren450 said:And that's the dillemma (I agree with you by the way). The Bible doesn't say that women are to submit only if the husband acts right. So if you truly believe in going by the Book, you will submit to the man you marry, whether he worships God or not.
Someone on another board asked a question about her friend. The friend's husband felt like she was spending too much time at church and wanted her to stop going. The lady on the board advised her friend not to listen to her husband. The friend went to her pastor, who advised her to listen to her husband (which technically lines up with scripture), but the friend kept going anyway. Was she out of order?
I gave the lady my opinion, which was that her friend was wrong. If she married him, knowing he didn't believe the same things she did, then she has to reap the consequences of that decision. That's the part about submission that could make you miserable.
I didn't say the man had to act right. I am not marrying nor submitting to a blundering fool. If his talk doesn't match his walk I am out. If we are not evenly yoked I am not getting married again ever.lauren450 said:And that's the dillemma (I agree with you by the way). The Bible doesn't say that women are to submit only if the husband acts right. So if you truly believe in going by the Book, you will submit to the man you marry, whether he worships God or not.
latia said:I didn't say the man had to act right. I am not marrying nor submitting to a blundering fool. If his talk doesn't match his walk I am out. If we are not evenly yoked I am not getting married again ever.
I also have a story. My sister at church husband told her not to tithe. She was ill and confused. She went to your Pastor he told her to listen to her husband. Her prayers would be her tithe. God worked it out. He is a member of the church now. God is good.
lauren450 said:Honestly? We submit to eachother.
This might not be a popular opinion, but I think the church (run by men) has overly focused on the role of the wife to submit, when the Bible clearly states that we are to submit to one another.
Mariaat40 said:This is how my husband of 21 years and I live out our marriage. Interestingly enough, when were engaged my mother-in-law gave me the book "Heirs Together" to read. It promotes the idea of mutual submission within a marriage.
lauren450 said:I've never heard of that book, but I will definitely check it out!
Mariaat40 said:Here's a description:
Heirs Together
Applying the Biblical Principle of Mutual Submission in Your Marriage
by Patricia Gundry
Well-written and thoroughly researched, Heirs Together unfolds the biblical case for equality and mutuality in marriage. Gundry combines an explanation of Bible passages with practical advice about how to work out mutual submission in daily life. Suitcase Books, 200 pages.
Synthia said:I'm so glad you asked me about this! I was just talking to my Mom about what believe the ideal dynamics between a husband and wife should be.
I actually don't submit to much authority, but I WILL submit to my man.
I think God created in woman the desire to admire and look up to her husband. I love seeing the man I'm with as a hero.
But I will only marry/date a man I deeply respect and see as a strong, masculine leader.
Everyone doesn't deserve submission.
If I respect and love him, then, I have no trouble following his lead -- because I'm going to be such a driving force behind that leadership.
It's a fallacy to believe leaders are dictators and know everything. They don't, which is why every leader needs a wingman and every husband/man needs a helpmeet/wife/woman.
To me women are more complex than men and have a variety of intelligences, talents, strengths. Our minds are crafted in a way where we can handle many things at one time. All this makes us perfectly suited to be helpmeets.
A helpmeet to me inspires, challenges, and nurtures her man. She is vigilant and is always watching where his leadership is going. If she sees that his judgement is off or they are going down a wrong path, then she has to re-direct him.
Now, this is where the Esther-effect comes in . I believe every woman has to be able to work the Esther-effect (better known as whip appeal) on her husband. Or there's going to be some trouble. You know how Esther stood before the powerful king, and he saw her, extended the scepter, and said whatever you want it's yours? Well, I can't be with a man unless I can whip him. If something is going awry, I need to be able to get him to listen to me and hear my wisdom, whether it's about money, or retirement, or a simple vacation.
There can be no submission to man without his ability to periodically defer to me.
And the husband should know this --- because God has commanded him to submit to the wife. This involves the surrendering or heart that makes it possible for him to be whipped and "extend the scepter" in times of impending crisis.
Leaders are rarely the smartest people in an alliance. (just look at bush). They are the figureheads and the gutsy ones who have to carry the burden of leadership on their shoulders. But they always have a wise counsel at their side (the wife ... and in Bush's case ..Cheney) who's can direct stuff and confirm judgement, etc.
So, the man needs to understand that. It's a great responsiblity to lead and he should be humbled and honored when a woman, as great as she is, respects him enough to put her future in his hands.
In turn, he should respect her and her wisdom as a helpmeet and listen to her advice when she delivers it.
I don't think a woman should abuse this Esther-effect like Delilah did. Or try to always direct the man.
I think the husband as leader and wife as submitted helpmeet is one of the most beautiful dynamics ever created.
They can build powerful alliances togehter if only people knew how to work it properly.
Now, really, what do I know ...I'm not married . But I sure wanna be, and I've thought a lot about this and have a whole philsophy.
It's very idealistic.... so I hope when I'm married I can translate my idealism into reality.
It is indeed difficult to find a man who's leaderhisp and strength you respect and who respects you.
I've been with men who didn't respect my talents ..who were competitive and hated when I outdid them in something. This is someone who did not understand the glory of a helpmeet. Women are some of the most powerful creatures on Earth and if a male leader doesn't recognize that submission doesn't equal to inferioriority ..then that's a shame and he's going to miss out.
I hope 2006 is the year I find my mate!
lauren450 said:Honestly? We submit to eachother.
This might not be a popular opinion, but I think the church (run by men) has overly focused on the role of the wife to submit, when the Bible clearly states that we are to submit to one another. I used to believe that when I got married, it would be sooooo hard to submit and obey, and that I would disagree with a lot of things and have to be on my knees (praying ) all the time and that I'd have to silently manipulate the situation.
You know what? It wasn't like that. At least, not as much as I thought. My husband and I are equal partners. I thank God that he gave me a man who isn't all "Me man. You woman. Submit to me!" I know some of them, and their wives are miserable. I see these men who puff out their chests and act like the king, all while their wives are looking all meek and sad in the back. Or these couples who make a big show of submission, so that you know who's running things. It's really not that serious, to be honest. Submission is a private matter between you and your mate. When the wife is truly submitted, and the husband is also submitted, you will see two happy people who are secure in their relationship and don't have to act.
If you have a relationship with God, and you choose the right man, you can be confident in the fact that that man is listening to God and that he has the wisdom to make decisions when he needs to, or that he is man enough to defer to you when he needs to. Also, he should be strong enough to handle gentle criticism, and you have to be astute enough to know when it's the right time, etc. It takes years, and you may never fully be in synch, but that's part of the journey.
I'm not saying that I never do submit, but you shouldn't constantly be at war with yourself or with your husband over everything. And your husband shouldn't feel like he controls you or owns you or that he's better or smarter than you. Really, you should be equals. All the while you're treating him like the king and man of the house, he should be treating you like a queen and the woman of the house. It goes back and forth, constantly.
My main point is that choosing the right man is KEY. If you do that, the journey will be so much easier. Also, a lot of the things you might read about submission will be one-sided, as if you are the only one who should do it. Just eat the meat and spit out the rest.
lauren450 said:Ok, I just talked to my husband about this subject, and his opinion is this: Submission is not about who makes the final decision. It's about both the husband and wife being submitted to God so that you know when God is speaking and who he's speaking through. Sometimes God speaks through the husband, and the wife has to be in tune with God to know that it's Him and vise versa. As you talk and listen to eachother in each situation, these things should become clear, and nobody should ever have to play any games or manipulate the other. He also thinks most people come into marriage with the wrong idea about submission, and that each couple has to do what is best for their own marriage, not what they've heard or seen from others.