SPINOFF: The ART of getting AND KEEPING a man WHILE DATING

[Ladybelle]

I will say that I am not married by choice....there was a point in my life where i was looking for the guy who DIDN"T want to get married...options for marriage material men (as in what most people deem marriage material) or men who would like to get married are always available if that is what one is looking for

I spent years not knowing what i was looking for and it wasn't marriage in the traditional sense or security from a man or anything like that... thats why I passed it up more than a few times in my life...it wouldn't be fair to me or to him to just settle when i knew in my heart its not what i wanted

even with my last ex if I could of been sure I could marry him or promise him some sort of forever he wouldn't of been as scared as he was of love but i couldn't give him that guarantee and he didn't want to take a chance and get "caught out on a limb" as he put it...

at that point I decided to figure out myself...what is goin on with me and it took me a few years to redefine my own ideas of love, commitment, marriage and now i know the reason why i was never gung ho to get married its because what i really feel all of that is about doesn't align up to what most other people feel it is about ....and now i am completely open to marriage in the way i see it and men who see it that way are poppin up all over the place...and its about me being me and attracting those who align up to me....when I was still thinking of marriage the way most people see it as, even though i didn't want that, i attracted men who wanted marriage in that way...they are still around, just now men who think like i do presently are attracting to my field of choice

if marriage is what one wants have faith marriage is what you will get

trying to get and keep people shows you have a lot of fear in "losing" somebody vs having faith that somebody will want to be with you

I think I understand what you're saying and you do bring up some very valid & interesting points. It's almost as if we're going from one extreme to another.

Let's just take one example/analogy. I'll use coloring. If I'm understanding it correctly,

you say that if one likes to color all the time, you should just be yourself. Don't hide it, don't cover it up, don't limit your desires & you will attract someone who loves you for you and your love of coloring.

I say, although one might like to color all the time - it might be better to control yourself until you are in a steady, long-term relationship with someone (at minimum) to completely let go of all of your inhibitions. And, I say that most men don't want to marry women who've been coloring with everybody.

Is that it?

I do agree with the bolded, while I also think there are certain standards one must meet, maintain & establish in order to have a healthy relationship.

 

[JustKiya]

Interesting, lol @ the whited part! Great minds think alike... so, what about preparing for marriage? Did you take the time to do that?

I wanted to get married, but it's a lotta stuff about marriage I didn't learn about until after I said I do. I wish I had taken more time to learn about what makes a marriage work, the role of wife/husband. It would have been beneficial to me. I think you said it in another thread, marriage does indeed take WORK, waaay more work than planning a wedding.

Urrah, not as much as I should have. I had a rough idea of what I wanted married life to be about, and I knew that DH was on the same page. The details of it, though, we had to work out after we were married. And by details, I mean how we created the partnership. How we learned to compromise. How we learned when to support, when to lead, and when to fall back - on both sides.

I don't think you can be fully prepared for marriage until you are married, just like you can't be fully prepared for parenthood until the babe is actually here, ya know?
You can do all the mental dryruns you want, but the reality of the situation is highly likely to not match up to what your visions were, because it involves another person, and their input can truly put a wrench in your well laid plans.

And, I think it's important to roll with those shifts, sometimes - as long as the overarching goal is the same with both of you - the details can be handled. It's when two people enter into marriage with two widely varying ideas of what marriage is supposed to be about - and don't verbalize those differences to each other - that you tend to run into issues.

 

[Ladybelle]

Urrah, not as much as I should have. I had a rough idea of what I wanted married life to be about, and I knew that DH was on the same page. The details of it, though, we had to work out after we were married. And by details, I mean how we created the partnership. How we learned to compromise. How we learned when to support, when to lead, and when to fall back - on both sides.

I don't think you can be fully prepared for marriage until you are married, just like you can't be fully prepared for parenthood until the babe is actually here, ya know?
You can do all the mental dryruns you want, but the reality of the situation is highly likely to not match up to what your visions were, because it involves another person, and their input can truly put a wrench in your well laid plans.

And, I think it's important to roll with those shifts, sometimes - as long as the overarching goal is the same with both of you - the details can be handled. It's when two people enter into marriage with two widely varying ideas of what marriage is supposed to be about - and don't verbalize those differences to each other - that you tend to run into issues.

Makes a lotta sense and is so true!. The bolded pretty much gave me all the clarity I needed.

 

[JustKiya]

I think I understand what you're saying and you do bring up some very valid & interesting points. It's almost as if we're going from one extreme to another.

Let's just take one example/analogy. I'll use coloring. If I'm understanding it correctly,

you say that if one likes to color all the time, you should just be yourself. Don't hide it, don't cover it up, don't limit your desires & you will attract someone who loves you for you and your love of coloring.

I say, although one might like to color all the time - it might be better to control yourself until you are in a steady, long-term relationship with someone (at minimum) to completely let go of all of your inhibitions. And, I say that most men don't want to marry women who've been coloring with everybody.

Is that it?

I do agree with the bolded, while I also think there are certain standards one must meet, maintain & establish in order to have a healthy relationship.

Wellllllllllllllll. It depends on the man. I would have an issue marrying a man who wanted to color all the time, and had exercised that desire before he met me, but wanted a woman who had never colored before him - or only colored infrequently before she met him. It seems - highly hypocritical, and that might reflect an underlying bit of double standards and hypocrisy that might show up in other, unrelated ways.

Now - even if you color twice a day from from the day you meet - I don't know how I feel about reserving certain 'acts' for marriage. I can see doing some things infrequently that you might put on the menu a little more often post-marriage - but then, I feel that way about everything, not just coloring.

 

[Highly Favored8]

Good thread ladies. Very good points.

 

[Ladybelle]

Wellllllllllllllll. It depends on the man. I would have an issue marrying a man who wanted to color all the time, and had exercised that desire before he met me, but wanted a woman who had never colored before him - or only colored infrequently before she met him. It seems - highly hypocritical, and that might reflect an underlying bit of double standards and hypocrisy that might show up in other, unrelated ways.

Now - even if you color twice a day from from the day you meet - I don't know how I feel about reserving certain 'acts' for marriage. I can see doing some things infrequently that you might put on the menu a little more often post-marriage - but then, I feel that way about everything, not just coloring.

It's not so much the coloring I want to dwell on( I guess I didn't do a good job with my analogy, lol!) what I'm trying to say is that

I think Tiara was saying - just be you, you attract what you are and you will get married if that's what you want, or have the faith that you will get married and you will , it isn't that simple is it? Because seemingly, there are a whole lotta women wanting/wishing/hoping/believing to get married who aren't.

Not that there is one set formula to getting married, but aren't there indeed some no-no's on what to do to NOT get married? I have several off the top of my head, but it appears I'm in the minority with that train of thought.

 

[tiara76]

I think I understand what you're saying and you do bring up some very valid & interesting points. It's almost as if we're going from one extreme to another.

Let's just take one example/analogy. I'll use coloring. If I'm understanding it correctly,

you say that if one likes to color all the time, you should just be yourself. Don't hide it, don't cover it up, don't limit your desires & you will attract someone who loves you for you and your love of coloring.

I say, although one might like to color all the time - it might be better to control yourself until you are in a steady, long-term relationship with someone (at minimum) to completely let go of all of your inhibitions. And, I say that most men don't want to marry women who've been coloring with everybody.

Is that it?

I do agree with the bolded, while I also think there are certain standards one must meet, maintain & establish in order to have a healthy relationship.

I would agree with what you say and use this piece of advice to the woman who believes men wouldn't want to marry a woman who has alot of sexual history (because those are the men she will run into or engage with) and to the woman who has inhibitions, fears and inner conflict with her own sexuality..if she doesn't have a clear idea of who she is around this part of herself or doesn't embrace it fully and leaves it up to a man to validate and embrace this part of her or "wife" her up then she is playing with fire trying to use sex to get a man or keep a man...because if he doesn't want her or doesn't want to commit to her or marry her she wont feel worthy or validated as a woman and feel like a worthless sex "object" which she must already doesn't if his actions would "cause" her to feel this way (he just triggered the feelings that were already there)...and yes her having sex with men who she doesn't have some sense of security with could be detrimental to her if she sees it as such a negative experience if he decides to leave, at the same time every experience one goes thru is an opportunity to come into yourself

when it comes to having sex with a man ....do it when you feel like it, when you are comfortable, because you WANT to and because you ENJOY it....when you misuse the energy of sex you may find yourself being misused around it..

there are plenty of men who would have an issue with my sexual freedom, experiences and mindset on it.....I just happen to attract more than enough men who love me for me and I tend to choose those men to be major parts of my life more times than not...I think like dlewis

why wouldn't somebody love me....

a friend once told me it seems like every guy loves you...

i told her

no every guy doesn't love me I just choose men who do and those are the men you tend to see me engage with...

 

[tiara76]

It's not so much the coloring I want to dwell on( I guess I didn't do a good job with my analogy, lol!) what I'm trying to say is that

I think Tiara was saying - just be you, you attract what you are and you will get married if that's what you want, or have the faith that you will get married and you will , it isn't that simple is it? Because seemingly, there are a whole lotta women wanting/wishing/hoping/believing to get married who aren't.

Not that there is one set formula to getting married, but aren't there indeed some no-no's on what to do to NOT get married? I have several off the top of my head, but it appears I'm in the minority with that train of thought.

i think one reason some women may find it hard to married is because i think there are alot of women who fear they wont get married as being a reason to want to get married..that could play a part in why they arent finding husbands..consciously they say they want to get married however the underlying focus and fear is that they won't...

 

[JustKiya]

It's not so much the coloring I want to dwell on( I guess I didn't do a good job with my analogy, lol!) what I'm trying to say is that

I think Tiara was saying - just be you, you attract what you are and you will get married if that's what you want, or have the faith that you will get married and you will , it isn't that simple is it? Because seemingly, there are a whole lotta women wanting/wishing/hoping/believing to get married who aren't.

Not that there is one set formula to getting married, but aren't there indeed some no-no's on what to do to NOT get married? I have several off the top of my head, but it appears I'm in the minority with that train of thought.

I think that there are a host of reasons as to why those women are not getting married. It could be how they are dating. It could be superficial standards they are using to discard men. It could be an air of desperation. It could be they are in an area largely devoid of worthy men.

I don't think there are any universal no-no's - it really depends on the man and the woman. Some men might hop on the woman who declares at the first date that she wants to be married and pregnant within a year. Some men will love the girl who mic checks them on the way to dinner for their first date. Some men will adore the virgin.

I'd love to hear your off the top of your head no-nos.....

 

[aribell]

Whatever people do, they have to be consistent within themselves and have integrity--integrity being consistency between internal thoughts and feelings and external actions and words. If a woman is violating her own standards or expectations of herself, then she will lack integrity, lose respect for herself, and with lowered self-confidence be unable to demand respect from those around her and the men in her life, because she's failed to live up to her own sense of what's good and right.

So, I don't know if women have to worry about what men on the whole think of her/certain behaviors, only about whether she believes she's living consistently with what is good, whether she genuinely loves and respects herself. Because the common denomnator in finding someone who loves you seems to be simply loving and respecting yourself first.

There's such a world of difference between having unconditional love for oneself and viewing oneself with respect vs. looking to someone else to tell you that you're loved and waiting on them to approve of who you are.

 

[tiara76]

Whatever people do, they have to be consistent within themselves and have integrity--integrity being consistency between internal thoughts and feelings and external actions and words. If a woman is violating her own standards or expectations of herself, then she will lack integrity, lose respect for herself, and with lowered self-confidence be unable to demand respect from those around her and the men in her life, because she's failed to live up to her own sense of what's good and right.

So, I don't know if women have to worry about what men on the whole think of her/certain behaviors, only about whether she believes she's living consistently with what is good, whether she genuinely loves and respects herself. Because the common denomnator in finding someone who loves you seems to be simply loving and respecting yourself first.

There's such a world of difference between having unconditional love for oneself and viewing oneself with respect vs. looking to someone else to tell you that you're loved and waiting on them to approve of who you are.

so on point

 

[Almaz]

I cannot really answer because in my community when we date the purpose is to get married. There is not long term casual dating. He is looking for a wife and you are looking for a husband. No illusions here. So when you meet someone you have to sort out what kind of husband they will be what kind of family they came from. Background checks. Reputation and work ethic. The Shidduch lady has a lot of that figured out already. So for me it was a lot different

 

[DiamondDivyne]

In terms of 'keeping a man' I mean it more like how to NOT push him away versus how to make a man like someone. I'm sure there are certain things that will push a man away no matter how into you he is. At least for me, I know there are things a man can do that will make me leave him alone even if I still have feelings for him. Maybe I just wasn't that into him. Maybe that's the end. But I believe there are certain things that will push a man (or woman) away, and was inquiring as to what those things could possibly be.

I don't normally second guess myself. However, as I metioned in a previous post, based on the relationships I see around me, I started to think maybe there was something wrong with me. Maybe I'm a hard @$$. Even from talking t some of my male friends, some of the reasons 'they' claim so many black women are single are the same advice being given here...the same way I date. Mainly, things such as 'forget him and what he wants, it's all about me and what I want' - men tend to view that as selfish. Again, maybe it is just me and these guys are maing these complaints so that some women will losen up and allow the men to broaden their playing field of women they can play with then get a new toy.

True story my bff's guy-she's-sleeping-with tld her I'm not $hit because she told him I don't take anything off of men...

 

[aribell]

In terms of 'keeping a man' I mean it more like how to NOT push him away versus how to make a man like someone. I'm sure there are certain things that will push a man away no matter how into you he is. At least for me, I know there are things a man can do that will make me leave him alone even if I still have feelings for him. Maybe I just wasn't that into him. Maybe that's the end. But I believe there are certain things that will push a man (or woman) away, and was inquiring as to what those things could possibly be.

I don't normally second guess myself. However, as I metioned in a previous post, based on the relationships I see around me, I started to think maybe there was something wrong with me. Maybe I'm a hard @$$. Even from talking t some of my male friends, some of the reasons 'they' claim so many black women are single are the same advice being given here...the same way I date. Mainly, things such as 'forget him and what he wants, it's all about me and what I want' - men tend to view that as selfish. Again, maybe it is just me and these guys are maing these complaints so that some women will losen up and allow the men to broaden their playing field of women they can play with then get a new toy.

True story my bff's guy-she's-sleeping-with tld her I'm not $hit because she told him I don't take anything off of men...

Selfishness is always bad. It's saying "I'm going to get my way even if it tramples on you." Selfishness is different than independence because independence is simply saying, "I'm in control of my own life and reserve the right to set my priorities as I see fit."

If the situation is, when should we go to the movie? And he says he's tired from work and wants to rest a bit and go later, and you say "Whatever, I don't feel like being out late," then yeah, that's selfishness and not independence. It's not being considerate of how he's feeling.

If he calls you 2 hours prior asking you to hang out later, and you tell him "Sorry, I've already made plans," then that's independence and respecting your own time. He could have been considerate enough to make plans in advance.

I feel like it's always good to use rules of courtesy, politeness, and consideration with everyone, including romantic prospects.

Acting completely aloof will push men away. Sometimes the idea that he's going to pursue you no matter what can get taken to extremes. I'm thinking of that movie "Ten Things I Hate About You" where the nerdy guy falls in love with the super mean girl. Or the Urkel/Laura dynamic on Family Matters. But honestly, if a man has any kind of self-respect and other women who are interested in him, he's not going to follow a woman around like a puppy dog if she's constantly dissing him, or simply not giving him the time of day. I think that he needs to know that you're actually into him and admire/respect who he is.

ETA: I always thought the title of the book "Why Men Love B's" was unfortunate because, really, what the author advocated has little to nothing to do with b****ness, and everything to do with independence and self-respect.

 

[Bachelorette]

ETA: I always thought the title of the book "Why Men Love B's" was unfortunate because, really, what the author advocated has little to nothing to do with b****ness, and everything to do with independence and self-respect.

True but people esp most men see women who are like this as being "b**ches" so I got what she meant by the title.