SPIN-OFF: Black people with Type 1 Hair

LunadeMiel said:
That I know. But he's people just left the bush :lachen:. They weren't mixing with anybody :lachen:.
Click to expand...

Yup, southern Africa is one of the notable places in which some indigenous peoples have light yellow skin and epicanthic folds. Their physical features are also described in their oral histories going back hundreds (potentially thousands) of years before non-Africans came to that part of Africa.

People who begin talking about "the ethnic mixture of South Africans" clearly are not familiar with the several indigenous "straight outta the bush" (their term, not mine!) tribes that have such features. It is a common mistake if a person is thinking only of the modern state of South Africa (and thus an understandable mistake).

Again, folks, the relatively small subset of Africans who went to the Americas is not representative of all indigenous Africans.

Please note also that the Western anthropological establishment (as represented by the AAA) officially retracted their use of the terms "negroid, caucasoid," etc (and the very idea of large racial categories) several decades ago. Laypeople continue to use the terms and concepts of "race" because we have been socialized to do so and because the goverment and media reinforces these ideas over and over.

There is really no NON-ARBITRARY biological, physical, or even phenotypic reason why a Khoisian from southern Africa, a Yoruba from Nigeria, and an Amhara from the Horn should all be considered part of the same alleged "race." There are many social reasons--some rather unsavory-- why they are lumped together in some societies, but from a public health/medical standpoint, each population has different needs based on the different climates and subsistence methods that contributed to their distinctive physical makeup.

It is not taking away from African solidarity to give due deference to the many differences among us. I think it actually highlights African unity: although we are strikingly different in phenotype, language, culture, and so forth, we all want a healthier, more peaceful, more politically stable, more financially independent and industrious continent, from Cairo to Capetown, Accra to Addis.

***Sorry to veer off-topic from the OP; will bow out now! :grin:***
 
YankeeCandle said:
Please note also that the Western anthropological establishment (as represented by the AAA) officially retracted their use of the terms "negroid, caucasoid," etc (and the very idea of large racial categories) several decades ago. Laypeople continue to use the terms and concepts of "race" because we have been socialized to do so and because the government and media reinforces these ideas over and over.

There is really no NON-ARBITRARY biological, physical, or even phenotypic reason why a Khoisian from southern Africa, a Yoruba from Nigeria, and an Amhara from the Horn should all be considered part of the same alleged "race." There are many social reasons--some rather unsavory-- why they are lumped together in some societies, but from a public health/medical standpoint, each population has different needs based on the different climates and subsistence methods that contributed to their distinctive physical makeup.
Click to expand...

Thank you!!!!!:yep::yep::yep:
 
Yankee Candle, interesting observation on your part. I am not so sure how I feel about the races within the race concept. The continent is trying to promote Pan-Africanism which is a hard struggle and mainly because of economic/political rather than social/cultural reasons.

In the DRC, the older generation Congolese and Hutu Rwandans were taught through colonialism about different races within the African continent and this thought became extremely dangerous as they started to see themselves as Bantu African and Tutsi Congolese/Rwandans as foreigners Nilotic/Ethiopian/Egyptian and thus this intermingled with many econonmic/political reasons which was manipulated by power players caused the genocide in Rwanda and Eastern DRC.


In West Africa for example, I know many West Africans reject the above-mentionned concept. It gets to be very dangerous and dicey to say that Ethiopians are of a different race than Senegalese for example.

Yes, people do have different features, hair texture and skin colour but that's just because of different climates, diets, etc. over time.

In West Africa, there were and are many Africans who came from other parts of the continent and these groups mixed together as well as the slave trade and business bringing in non-African men who married and had children with indigenous African women. My family for example is West African and people tend to get very upset when I state that because they say, well West Africa is comprised of many countries, you can't state that you claim the whole thing and therefore lump the whole place together. Well I can say that many West Africans will tell you that they have a very diverse background just as the African-Americans. My maternal side is from Sudan and migrated into West Africa with a mixture of my relatives settling in parts of Liberia and Sierra Leone and some of the family line according to my great-aunt also disbanded into Egypt. My paternal line is from Nigeria Yoruba but my dad's mother was a high-yellow woman from Benin (PortoNovo) whose people were slated for the slave trade to America from Abiokuta. Since my grandfather was so dark for a Yoruba there is talk that his family might not even be orginally from Nigeria. You know that Africans are nomadic and many travelled and settled all over Africa and many of the men were polygamous and had children all over the place. Many Africans went to school in the States and Europe and had children with the white women and left them behind. I even have Senegalese relatives and I mean first cousin stuff. And during the civil war in the States there were Africans who went to school and returned back to Africa and I am sure they left behind children.

Now, pray tell me what race am I supposed to be? The bottom line is that I don't agree with the concept. I am African straight up. And while there are anomolies in my family (mother has dark brown eyes with a blue rim etc) and even that I have as a typical West African woman don't necessarily fit the stereotype it doesn't change the concept that I am still a black African. And I don't think anything is wrong with being a negroid African, my hair type identifies me as such. But yes, my example proves that race is not a narrow concept. I agree let's celebrate the diversions but let's not forget the whole.



Best,
Almond Eyes
 
Last edited:
To really sum this up this all boils down to Genetics and DNA.

African Americans, and those from the other Islands, may often appear very dark with really kinki hair, or very light with straight hair, or what ever they look like, many are likely to have up to and even above 20% European/Asian genes, I advise many to go at get a genetics test done,you would be extremely surprised!

You can call your self fully black if you want to and feel that way, the genetic makeup but of an individual counts for a lot.
So for the Diaspora people your likely to be 'mixed' (at least genetically) whether its visible or not. Its likely in this group that you could find type 1's, as it definitely could be in the genetic make up even if its recessive.

Africa, well its very diverse, and is more a case of migration and geographical access.

To the north of Africa you can obviously see its closer to the middle east and europe its likely that trade was much easier due to its proximity, and the movement of different peoples and tribes would have been easy and probable. (Including Arabs), therefore you would get a higher % of genetic mixing. maybe this is why often, most north African often have looser textured hair, they are still as black as any other African but with a different genetic make up. (like brothers and sisters!) Type 1 is a possibility in this case

Central Africa.... dense forests, hard access, deserts, probably harder to get to as further away from the coast and water, for boats access,(in the past), so less genetic mixing. I can definitely say that central to mid south Africans have hair in the 4 regions ( also the environment has a big part to play...i can discuss later). they are still black, with a different genetic makeup. but I highly doubt you will find some one from central Africa with type 1 hair. LMAO the thought of it! although in the future and all this traveling and IR love, this could definitely happen...im all for it!

The variety you will find in hair textures will be derived from the variety of the genetic make up of an individual, having a more heterozygous array of genes will probably mean that there could be a great possibility of 'black'(mixed genes) people having type 1 hair,
But that would be very unlikely for some one who was pure African or at least had a larger homogeneous genetic profile.
 
YankeeCandle said:
Yup, southern Africa is one of the notable places in which some indigenous peoples have light yellow skin and epicanthic folds. Their physical features are also described in their oral histories going back hundreds (potentially thousands) of years before non-Africans came to that part of Africa.

People who begin talking about "the ethnic mixture of South Africans" clearly are not familiar with the several indigenous "straight outta the bush" (their term, not mine!) tribes that have such features. It is a common mistake if a person is thinking only of the modern state of South Africa (and thus an understandable mistake).

Again, folks, the relatively small subset of Africans who went to the Americas is not representative of all indigenous Africans.

Please note also that the Western anthropological establishment (as represented by the AAA) officially retracted their use of the terms "negroid, caucasoid," etc (and the very idea of large racial categories) several decades ago. Laypeople continue to use the terms and concepts of "race" because we have been socialized to do so and because the goverment and media reinforces these ideas over and over.

There is really no NON-ARBITRARY biological, physical, or even phenotypic reason why a Khoisian from southern Africa, a Yoruba from Nigeria, and an Amhara from the Horn should all be considered part of the same alleged "race." There are many social reasons--some rather unsavory-- why they are lumped together in some societies, but from a public health/medical standpoint, each population has different needs based on the different climates and subsistence methods that contributed to their distinctive physical makeup.

It is not taking away from African solidarity to give due deference to the many differences among us. I think it actually highlights African unity: although we are strikingly different in phenotype, language, culture, and so forth, we all want a healthier, more peaceful, more politically stable, more financially independent and industrious continent, from Cairo to Capetown, Accra to Addis.

***Sorry to veer off-topic from the OP; will bow out now! :grin:***
Click to expand...
I am loving the bolded. Girl, you are on point. I wish more people understood that.
 
between yankeecandle and otegwu... this thread got way too smart for me. i'm gonna go read a book so i can catch up! lol
 
The two ideas that I think are the most important from that link are:
o001_hand_08.gif

and
o001_hand_07.gif
 
otegwu said:
To really sum this up this all boils down to Genetics and DNA.

You can call your self fully black if you want to and feel that way, the genetic makeup but of an individual counts for a lot.
So for the Diaspora people your likely to be 'mixed' (at least genetically) whether its visible or not. Its likely in this group that you could find type 1's, as it definitely could be in the genetic make up even if its recessive.
Click to expand...

Very little of what we're talking about has to do w/ genetics, per se, but social contructs which assign certain traits (phenotypes) to certain groups based on "the eyeball test". Nothing is really more inaccurate than this in terms of science, but here we're talking social mores. :rolleyes: IOW, someone who has "Andre type 1 hair" can't be Black because society says they MUST BE mixed. Frankly that's illogical given the genetic diversity of humans, but people ain't logical! :grin::look: Much of this is tied up in the venal "one drop rule" which seeks a simple answer to a complex question.

At the end of the day, we simply don't know what soemone's racial make up is by looking at external traits. This is why if someone says they're "Black" I accept it (same for other categories) because these things are more about culture, experiences, and ethnicity than genetic make up.

I just find it funny that some folks say "I'm mixed" and people get mad and say "You're Black and you just don't wanna be" then other people will say "I'm NOT mixed...I'm Black" and they get argued down citing "atypical" phentotypical traits (see Type 1-2 hair). Based on what...where's the dispute? People can't win for losing sometimes and it's sad.
 
I've resorted to the belief that colour and hair types/ other features aren't always related. I come from a fully Nigerian family, and even within my family there's so much diversity. Some of us kids (we're eleven) are fair in complexion, some dark, some tall, some short, some with type 4 hair and some with type 3....the heck, my seven year old sister's got type 2-3 hair and blue eyes! and no, my mummy didn't cheat on nobody.
 
jamaraa said:
Very little of what we're talking about has to do w/ genetics, per se, but social contructs which assign certain traits (phenotypes) to certain groups based on "the eyeball test". Nothing is really more inaccurate than this in terms of science, but here we're talking social mores. :rolleyes: IOW, someone who has "Andre type 1 hair" can't be Black because society says they MUST BE mixed. Frankly that's illogical given the genetic diversity of humans, but people ain't logical! :grin::look: Much of this is tied up in the venal "one drop rule" which seeks a simple answer to a complex question.

At the end of the day, we simply don't know what soemone's racial make up is by looking at external traits. This is why if someone says they're "Black" I accept it (same for other categories) because these things are more about culture, experiences, and ethnicity than genetic make up.

I just find it funny that some folks say "I'm mixed" and people get mad and say "You're Black and you just don't wanna be" then other people will say "I'm NOT mixed...I'm Black" and they get argued down citing "atypical" phentotypical traits (see Type 1-2 hair). Based on what...where's the dispute? People can't win for losing sometimes and it's sad.
Click to expand...

THANK YOU! It's the reason that some people have said my brother is mixed and I am black: he hazel eyes, light skin; me brown skin, dark eyes..

HELLO! We have the same mom and dad!

Even then, people catch themselves saying this. Like my SIL: she'll say the kids are mixed because she and my brother are mixed, but if she talks about me she'll say I'm black.:look:

So this whole thing is really about "visual" or "atypical phentotypical traists as you say above.
 
Dolapo said:
Im african and i have type 3 natural hair with some 4 at the back. There is no one from my heritage who is mixed and im pretty sure of that. I know I got my hair from my dad who got his from his mother. I should take a picture of their natural hair but they dont live here....So one doesnt have to be mixed to have a type of hair that is different from type four. I dont know where the type 3 hair came from.....In the northern part of Nigeria, the hausas and fulanis have type 2 and 3 hair and im very sure they're not mixed. Arabs never came to my country only white people and they didnt stay in the North. i think its people in the northern part of Africa that mostly have different hair types. i met a woman from tanzania who has type 2 hair but im not sure if she's mixed or not. Im thinking it depends on the weather or climate. Because its really dry and dusty in the North, nature may have let their hair be a little curly so it doesnt hold sand and dirt and so it doesnt dry out. who knows......
Click to expand...

Dolapo,

I just want to inform you that you most likely have Hausa/Fulani genes somewhere in your family tree. Go and ask somebody. If so, then you are m*xed (seeing as that's a curse word around here these days)...LOL

Also, do some google searching, you'll see that Fulanis and Hausas have Arab blood in them. Besides people in northern Nigeria are traditionally Nomads--by definition, they just dont sit still. how do you know they didnt come south to get with the white folk? huh? :lachen:
 
Vintagecoilylocks said:
Well I would like to ask all the poeple who say it is not 100% Black to have straight hair this. At what point did the black and kink develope its characteristics you claim are exclusive. I believe we are from one female and male from the african continent. I am traditional bible version but irrigardless many believe the differances evolved due to environment. So question which came first the kink/black or the straight./white? How do you know "100%Blacks" did not originally have straight hair and light skin and it evolved due to environment to kink/black. Then whites just kept the original? this could account for Aborigines STILL having straight hair while only their skin adjusted to environment. Also the claims from Africans of no known mixture yet many being lighter with straight to straight hair. It is well known that the Moors occupied(yes occupied) deep into the european continent for hundreds of years. So maybe whites with kink just got a new dose of the newer type hair.

This is fun isn't it.
Click to expand...


I think this is a fantastic point of view. Ive never really thought of it this way before. It's hard to prove, but certainly interesting to think about :yep: it kinda sounds somewhat like an evolution theory

ETA: im sitting at the airport right now and i can't help starring at all the different types of people walking past. curly heads, wavy heads, straight heads, broad noses, pointy noses etc. im sitting here tryna picture thse folk morphing back into black versions of themselves..lol

Poohbear said:
I wonder why the "White People with Type 4 Hair" thread didn't get heated like this one... :look:
Click to expand...

chile you KNOW every black girl wants naturally swanging hair. why u gona go and set us up like this?







J/K <---sneaks out of thread. :lachen::lachen:
 
Last edited:
myco said:
I was watching a program on TLC (it might have been The Real Eve) and the researchers were discussing the environmental uses for the differences in hair and skin color. In hot, tropical climates like most of Africa, kinky,curly hair is advantageous because it allows for heat to be dispersed from the scalp. The strands of hair grow away from the head allowing the heat to escape. Straighter hair on the other hand, lays next to the scalp trapping the heat next to the body.

The stereotypical caucasian nose is advantageous in colder climates because the high, thin nasal passage warms incoming air. Broader, flatter noses help to cool the incoming air.

Melanin or the lack thereof is related to our ability to absorb Vitamin D from the sun. Melanin inhibits Vitamin D absorption from the sun. So if you live in a northern climate that gets relatively less sun for large parts of the year, fairer skin allows you to maximize your Vitamin D absorption when it's available. On the flipside, the ability to produce melanin offers more UV protection in climates that get a lot of sun year-round. I know that was OT, but I just find stuff like that amazing. There is a method to the madness.

I was going to answer Poohbear's original question, but I don't know any unmixed black people with Type 1 or Type 2 hair. It might not have been in the last couple of generations, but great-grandmother/father and beyond it's there.
Click to expand...

i LOVE this. i just KNEW there was a reason that my hair is so thick and muscular :infatuated:

EbonyF said:
Basically in a nutshell, what throws people off is RACE. I mean, no one every ponders about a White person's straight hair. Why isn't that they have straight hair BECAUSE of their African ancestor? or why can't a Black person have straight hair because of their African descent? The color of ones skin has no determination of straightness or nappiness.
Click to expand...

how come the blacks that are undisputably of African descent (ie people in rural West Africa) all seem to have dense thick type 4 hair? i dont get it
North, East, and south Africans dont count because they usually have other "races" / "countries" of whatever mixed in.
 
tada umm...ok people in certain parts of Africa have the "typical" hair texture because it's a dominant trait in their genetic makeup and those of the regional population. It's just like why there are many redheads in Scotland/Ireland. In that region those traits are dominant for evolutionary reasons. HOWEVER that fact doesn't mean they are NOT mixed, only that some genes are more dominant than others.

I don't know how you can assume that West Africans are somehow more isolated than all other Africans on the rest of the continent therefore are unmixed based on their hair texture?! The texture you speak of is the predominant one ALL OVER Africa, including North Africa and East Africa. The texture you're referring to is no stranger anywhere on the continent. :giggle: No matter how mixed the people are supposed to be.

Being mixed is not a bad thing at all. People do not choose their genetic makeup. It's the issue of others trying to tell someone they are because of a phenotypical trait that seems unexplained otherwise. When it comes to Africans, unlike most diasporic Blacks, many of them know their ancestry back 10 gens or more. To insist that they don't comes off weirdly and rather imperalist, IMHO.

BTW, joking or not, there are plenty of BW who DO NOT WANT to trade their hair for "swang". Sorry.
 
This stuff is a very American (meaning USA) obsession. Most of the world ain't checkin' it like this. In many other societies there are at least 3 races...Black, White, Coloured quite unlike here in the States. I would say in many parts of Africa a mixed race person wouldn't be considered Black by anyone, but Coloured. This is certainly true for much of Central and South America, but the US seems to be the one place where people are still :arguing: :catfight: about who's Black or mixed race. :nono: :giggle:
 
Last edited:
Poohbear said:
What do u consider "all Black"? How can a Black person be all black or 100% black??? How come someone that is mixed with something else cannot be considered black? Black is just a category people are placed in because of COMMON traits. That doesn't mean every black person should possess these traits. That's impossible.

For example, a common black feature is big lips. I don't have big lips, does that make me "not-all-the-way Black"? Certainly not!
Click to expand...

the idea is something like this: if you mix a tub of PURE (100% salt) with a teaspoon of sand, even though there is obviously more salt than there is sand, the resultant mixture is clearly no longer 100% salt. the features of the salt, the sand, or the resultant mixture don't really matter. the point is, someone muddied up the salt. If you compare your original pure salt with the new mixed salt, i think its fair to say that one is 100% and the other isn't. (and i say this with utmost respect for all mixed people)
 
tada1 said:
the idea is something like this: if you mix a tub of PURE (100% salt) with a teaspoon of sand, even though there is obviously more salt than there is sand, the resultant mixture is clearly no longer 100% salt. the features of the salt, the sand, or the resultant mixture don't really matter. the point is, someone muddied up the salt. If you compare your original pure salt with the new mixed salt, i think its fair to say that one is 100% and the other isn't. (and i say this with utmost respect for all mixed people)
Click to expand...

Genetics is nowhere near this straight forward. :look::grin::giggle:
 
jamaraa said:
tada umm...ok people in certain parts of Africa have the "typical" hair texture because it's a dominant trait in their genetic makeup and those of the regional population. It's just like why there are many redheads in Scotland/Ireland. In that region those traits are dominant for evolutionary reasons. HOWEVER that fact doesn't mean they are NOT mixed, only that some genes are more dominant than others.

I don't know how you can assume that West Africans are somehow more isolated than all other Africans on the rest of the continent therefore are unmixed based on their hair texture?!
Click to expand...

I didn't mean to imply that West-Africans are not mixed because they seem to have mostly type four hair. IMHO it is a generally understood fact that rural West-Africans avoid inter-racial marriage for cultural reasons. In fact, in many West-African villages, people don't marry outside their own tribes. My point was, rural west Africans are generally unlikely to be mixed and they seem to have thick type four hair.

My question to the poster then was, if this is the case how can one ask white folk to look to Africans for an explanation for their straight hair when the group of Africans that are best known for being as pure bred African as possible DO NOT have straight hair?

this is the post i was replying to:
Why isn't that they have straight hair BECAUSE of their African ancestor? or why can't a Black person have straight hair because of their African descent? The color of ones skin has no determination of straightness or nappiness.

btw, the thick type 4 hair that im referring to when i discuss rural west-africans is not common in the areas you mentioned. Northern and Eastern Africans have mostly type 3 hair or very loose type 4a.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

RabiaElaine
Roll Call: Relaxer Strenght and Hair type
Replies
10
Views
2K
Queenie
Queenie
brickhouse
Type 2 hair
Replies
7
Views
2K
brickhouse
brickhouse
S
Race and Hair type.
Replies
13
Views
2K
lsubabiedee
lsubabiedee
BeetleBug
Hair Type Quiz
Replies
1
Views
4K
hothair
hothair
EbonyEyes
Why do People with Type 2B/2C hair relax?
Replies
25
Views
11K
dontspeakdefeat
dontspeakdefeat
Back
Top