SJ's Reasons She Can't Get BTK- I think....

[sheba1]

OK - I got 2 cents... I think that I wil respectfully disagree with this. YOu know we are around here.....

Things get "popular"..... So I think this is a bandwagon... and like many others - Some will use BTK for yeasrs to come - and others will coe and go with it.

I don't that it is an insult or said with malicious intent though

Thing is, this is life, SJ. Some things will be for some for a while. Others will come and go. No band... no wagon. Same is true for relaxers, or going natural, certain conditioners, certain clothes, certain relationships, etc.

 

[Nonie]

Just playing the devil's advocate here: I keep reading of BKT really helping with retention but I am yet to see any amazing difference between retention before BKT and after. The people named have either always had long hair and so still have long hair, or have acquired the average amount of hair their history showed they acquired in past years w/o BKT. Then I look at people who don't use BKT and press their hair often and I see the same progress. So does anyone have a success story that shows how they failed to retain length prior to BKT and then now are able to and have made strides in acquiring lengths they never could before?

 

[sheba1]

^^^^ I'd love to see this, also. But since only five or so people have done it on the boards, and the treatment is not very popular amongst black women, it's doubtful that we'll get it.

I don't think BKT helps with retention, per se. I think it makes detangling easier so that we can keep more of our ends, rather than snapping them off. Also, my hope is that it helps with single strand knots. I'll keep you posted.

 

[Nonie]

Why is the word "bandwagon" ruffling feathers? It just means "a growing trend that is attracting support". So what if this was discovered in the previous century? Some folks like me are only hearing about it now and there are many asking questions and getting excited about it and other leaping on and trying it. So the BKT crowd is getting larger (ie the trend is growing) and those who are comfortable with it are supporting it and supporting those doing it. So it is a bandwagon and that doesn't make it evil or something for folks to be ashamed of.

 

[Nonie]

^^^^ I'd love to see this, also. But since only five or so people have done it on the boards, and the treatment is not very popular amongst black women, it's doubtful that we'll get it.

I don't think BKT helps with retention, per se. I think it makes detangling easier so that we can keep more of our ends, rather than snapping them off. Also, my hope is that it helps with single strand knots. I'll keep you posted.

But wouldn't not snipping ends off mean retaining them which is = retention which would then = to longer hair than we never had before? Especially since there is a belief that BKT makes hair stronger which would then mean stronger ends that aren't being snapped off. So wouldn't that mean retention as never before?

That's just the evidence I am yet to see.

Also I have seen BKT hair that looks thin--especially the ends (hence my referring to its results as I would imagine they'd look on me as "wisps of hair" . It would be nice to see it get thicker and fuller with time as it grows longer, further proving that not only is retention happening but also it is making hair "healthier" with time.

 

[vkb247]

I'm in the mind frame of like how it goes when you get acrylic tips. The formula contains formaldehyde as well. They put the crap on and put your fingers by the lamps to "bake it in" The nails feel strong as long as you have this "treatment" around your nails. When you don't have the treatment on, the nails feel weaker than when you started and then you have to maintain your treatment to keep your strength and length.

I mean I'm just sayin....... that's my thinking.

Well the man reason that your nails are weak/thin under the acrylic is because they file off a layer or two of the natural nail to help the acrylic adhere better. But ITA with you. I have only seen one lady who used a BKT a few times, stopped, and her hair was still healthy and her hair is very different from mine. Everyone's hair may look great and retain well but we don't really know what it would be like if they stopped.

I need some more proof of the condition of the hair under the BKT from people with hair like mine (type 4's). I would only use it as a temporary thing and then return to my normal curls, so I don't want to risk permanent damage.

 

[sheba1]

But wouldn't not snipping ends off mean retaining them which is = retention which would then = to longer hair than we never had before? Especially since there is a belief that BKT makes hair stronger which would then mean stronger ends that aren't being snapped off. So wouldn't that mean retention as never before?

That's just the evidence I am yet to see.

Which you may not see since there are not many long time bkters that meet your criteria.

My point was simply that, while you may not see the person that never ever could retain an inch of hair grow hair to the floor because of BKT, you have many examples, already, of people that have experienced easier detangling. Thus, it may help retention or it might just make retaining easier because there is less struggle during detangling.

Also I have seen BKT hair that looks thin--especially the ends (hence my referring to its results as I would imagine they'd look on me as "wisps of hair" . It would be nice to see it get thicker and fuller with time as it grows longer, further proving that not only is retention happening but also it is making hair "healthier" with time.

I don't think the damaged hair gets healthier. I think it may be easier to hold on to damaged ends longer as they are temporarily protected by the treatment. They still must be snipped away, eventually.

Brittany had serious damage. You can see her hair improve over time as she BKT'd. She had to cut the damage away over time, though. She's documented her journey well in her fotki.

 

[sheba1]

I dunno, VKB. There just aren't many women with type 4 hair doing BKT. It's not really marketed to to type 4 hair, except as a means of making relaxed hair stronger, I guess? Once you get into type 4 relaxed, texlaxed and the like, what you see on this board is it. And you may not ever get what you're looking for. Which is ok, certainly, I'm just saying that a lot of "proof" is being requested of something that is too new, amongst type 4 hair to "prove".

We are hair pioneers on this board, and still there are people that have been into hair for years on this board that had never even heard of the treatment until recently.

One problem someone mentioned about what happens to the hair as it wears off of type 4s is that many of them that have used it keep using it. It's difficult to find info on it because so many are happy with the results and continue.

 

[JayAnn0513]

I'm doing my first treatment in a few days and I hope it works as well as people say it does. I am definately a 4a, with maybe some 3c in the nape and 4b in the crown mixed in for good measure. I'm 15+ weeks post texlax and I havent relaxed bone straight in 11 months. As someone who has been working to overcome very damaged hair in the past 10 months or so months I'm hoping to give some you the results/proof that it works you are looking for. I'm not APL+ already like many of the women on here using BKT, nor is my hair already in perfect condition. I plan to post before and after pics of each treatment if I chose to do more than 1. My avatar is from my last texlax 01.01.09 and my goal is to get my BKT treament done before 05.01.09, hopefully tomorrow ( I have an interview for a promotion Tuesday and I need to be able to wash and style before then) if not I'll get it done Tuesday and do the 2nd wash Friday afternoon.

 

[vkb247]

Jayann I am happy for you and can't wait to see the results!

As for not having a lot of 4a ladies to give me the sort of proof that I need, well that's perfectly all right with me. I'm not really into straight hair so I am not in a hurry to try it and if it proves to be successful for type 4's 5 or 10 years from now than it won't be too late for me to try it then.

 

[Nonie]

Which you may not see since there are not many long time bkters that meet your criteria.

My point was simply that, while you may not see the person that never ever could retain an inch of hair grow hair to the floor because of BKT, you have many examples, already, of people that have experienced easier detangling. Thus, it may help retention or it might just make retaining easier because there is less struggle during detangling.

You just contradicted yourself, which is what my post was addressing. In your previous post you said, "I don't think BKT helps with retention, per se" and then went on to say "I think it helps with detangling so we can keep more of our ends." And I was pointing out that your last statement does indeed imply that BKT helps with retention which is what you were saying you didn't think it does by your first line. And now I am saying you just contradicted yourself because first you said "I don't think BKT helps with retention" and then now you said "thus it may help with retention".

I don't think the damaged hair gets healthier. I think it may be easier to hold on to damaged ends longer as they are temporarily protected by the treatment. They still must be snipped away, eventually.

Brittany had serious damage. You can see her hair improve over time as she BKT'd. She had to cut the damage away over time, though. She's documented her journey well in her fotki.

I know damaged hair cannot be fixed, so I wasn't talking about the damaged ends getting fuller. I meant the hair as a whole getting fuller even if the ends may still look awful. There's one person whose hair looks extra thin and if it starts to look like Brittany's does now with continued use of BKT, then I will be convinced about it making hair look healthier and stronger.

Brittany has always had a beautiful mane. I was looking at her OLD ME album and her hair looks so thick--thicker than some of her last year pics...and it is long, so retention doesn't look like it's been a problem for her and thick healthy hair has been part of her life. Even her November pic and the earlier poof pic in her recent album show hair that is thick and healthy and which if super-pressed like BKT does, can swing as her most recent pics show and hang around there. In other words, even takig into account her trims, her hair growth and retention is exactly as when she wore her hair curlier, judging from her pics.

So while I totally get the ease of styling having straight(er) hair gives you--heck I already said that's what I loved when I pressed my hair--the hype about it being healthier and good for your hair doesn't hold water for me...yet. But I already have a "guinea pig" or two to watch since this is the first year doing it. I'll see how things look down the road and I can compare if there's any difference from say doing presses the normal way as far as maintaining health and length.

 

[Nonie]

Well the man reason that your nails are weak/thin under the acrylic is because they file off a layer or two of the natural nail to help the acrylic adhere better. But ITA with you. I have only seen one lady who used a BKT a few times, stopped, and her hair was still healthy and her hair is very different from mine. Everyone's hair may look great and retain well but we don't really know what it would be like if they stopped.

I need some more proof of the condition of the hair under the BKT from people with hair like mine (type 4's). I would only use it as a temporary thing and then return to my normal curls, so I don't want to risk permanent damage.

The bold is true, but I have also had acrylic done on a nail that wasn't filed down as a test and it still got thin. Same thing with silk wraps where my nails were not filed down--per my request--and still the nails thinned. I think the glue may also be a culprit.

 

[JayAnn0513]

Jayann I am happy for you and can't wait to see the results!

As for not having a lot of 4a ladies to give me the sort of proof that I need, well that's perfectly all right with me. I'm not really into straight hair so I am not in a hurry to try it and if it proves to be successful for type 4's 5 or 10 years from now than it won't be too late for me to try it then.

Thanks! Your hair is FAB, don't change a thing! I don't want bone straight hair forever either. That's why I stopped relaxing, even a mild texlax straightens my curls too much . I would love to do this for 1-2 yrs then be able to cut off my relaxedd ends and rock a fly curly wash and go on the weekends and flat iron during the week if I want to and not be terrified of damage like I am now.

 

[sheba1]

I must have contradicted myself. It just seems that what your stating is different than what I am stating to me. In any event, it's not an arguable point. You can watch over the years, as you've said. I don't know who meets your criteria, though. Or who has even stated they'll definitely do it long term.

The problem to me is that for those that say they want to try it once there's just too much you have to defend just by being interested. It's crazy.

 

[lashannasmall]

..by the way. has anyone wondered after all this product wears off exactly what condition or state your hair becomes after all that heat passing through. I mean I understand the treatment is like a protectant and it is sort of "baked' in so to speak but it almost seems like you have to keep up the treatment to maintain the strength no? Just curious about down the road after use.

I'm in the mind frame of like how it goes when you get acrylic tips. The formula contains formaldehyde as well. They put the crap on and put your fingers by the lamps to "bake it in" The nails feel strong as long as you have this "treatment" around your nails. When you don't have the treatment on, the nails feel weaker than when you started and then you have to maintain your treatment to keep your strength and length.

I mean I'm just sayin....... that's my thinking.

Wow I never thought about it that way!!!

 

[Nonie]

I don't know who meets your criteria, though. Or who has even stated they'll definitely do it long term.

The problem to me is that for those that say they want to try it once there's just too much you have to defend just by being interested. It's crazy.

I'm thinking that there will be many who will try it for years after all it is supposed to be healthy so why wouldn't people keep doing it? I mean, when I first heard of texlaxing, I'd never known of people that did it...but after a few years, I can now name folks with looooong hair that looks healthy and thick. Texlaxing that was to me "just a passing fad" has passed the test of time. I'm hoping BKT will also have such a history for those who are so happy to have found something that promises them the ease of styling they always sort without sacrificing the health of their hair. So I think it's too early to assume that there won't be people doing it for long. Now if it is damaging, of course it'll just be a passing fad as people get wiser and learn from experience. So I'm not dismissing its promises. I'm just waiting to see them.

W/r/t your last paragraph, I don't know why it is that people feel a need to "defend" something they choose to do. WTH do you care about what people think about what you do with your own hair? I am always floored that people worry so much about what others think about their choices. I don't put moisturizer in my hair. Maybe my hair will survive this, maybe it won't. But I chose to do it and I don't apologize or feel a need to explain myself to anyone. So those who want to do BKT, follow your instincts and do your thing. But don't get mad at those who don't think it's cool. I don't get mad at those who shake their heads at my hair practices. The minute you stop worrying about what others think, the minute you'll find peace and self-acceptance.

 

[sheba1]

I don't care what others think of my hair. I have done what I please in regards to my life. But in regards to bkt, you can't find a single bkt thread without strife. It's like a natural vs relaxer thread, all day. And that makes it not that much fun to discuss.

Peace with myself? Of course. Peace with discussing bkt on the boards is another matter, entirely. It's exhausting.

 

[STLCoverGirl]

The problem to me is that for those that say they want to try it once there's just too much you have to defend just by being interested. It's crazy.

I appreciate your answers, they've been informative to me. You can't please everyone, you put your knowledge out there and people are free to use it themselves or keep it moving.

ETA-Why she got to be searching for peace and self-acceptance though...come on now!

 

[Nonie]

I wasn't telling anyone, especially not Sheba, to search for peace and self-acceptance if that question is addressed to me. And I didn't even know Sheba uses BKT (does she?). I was just addressing the statement that people have to defend their use of BKT. Why? Why do people have to defend it? Why does anyone have to defend what they do to their own hair? That was my question. I didn't realize people felt they had to defend their use of it. I thought people were just sharing why they like it. Just like when people ask me why I don't use braid spray, I don't defend my choice. I just share why and keep on stepping. I don't get stressed and I don't understand why anyone is getting stressed about their discussion of BKT.

ETA: I used the word "peace" because I see it over and over again, people wringing their hands in a dilemma, wanting to do something to their hair and needing some form of approval from others to do it or some assurance that it is OK. Which prompted JCoily's post of "do it already!". I imagine if you're letting what others say or think affect what you do, then you can't be at peace. Not you Sheba.... Just anyone that is so overly concerned by what other people think about what they do.

 

[vkb247]

I am sorry Sheba if you feel like there is unnecessary strife in this thread. I don't think anyone is trying to be a troll. I think that it is always good to share both sides on a subject. There are lots of people viewing this thread who probably don't know much about hair care so I think it is vital for them to understand the potential risks involved. It is a balanced discussion IMO.

ETA: Thanks so much Jayann! I have been hating my hair lately but I just got my first order of henna and I am hoping that will make me love my hair again. I am leaning closer and closer to transitioning everyday.

 

[Lucky's Mom]

..by the way. has anyone wondered after all this product wears off exactly what condition or state your hair becomes after all that heat passing through. I mean I understand the treatment is like a protectant and it is sort of "baked' in so to speak but it almost seems like you have to keep up the treatment to maintain the strength no? Just curious about down the road after use.

I'm in the mind frame of like how it goes when you get acrylic tips. The formula contains formaldehyde as well. They put the crap on and put your fingers by the lamps to "bake it in" The nails feel strong as long as you have this "treatment" around your nails. When you don't have the treatment on, the nails feel weaker than when you started and then you have to maintain your treatment to keep your strength and length.

I mean I'm just sayin....... that's my thinking.

EXCELLENT point.
I get biosculpture nails. My nails feel fine if they have to come off....It is not acrylic.

 

[Lucky's Mom]

Thing is, this is life, SJ. Some things will be for some for a while. Others will come and go. No band... no wagon. Same is true for relaxers, or going natural, certain conditioners, certain clothes, certain relationships, etc.

Very True - my dear. I was just saying that BTK - is on the rise on LHCF.
That is all. It is no biggie.

 

[Lucky's Mom]

Well the man reason that your nails are weak/thin under the acrylic is because they file off a layer or two of the natural nail to help the acrylic adhere better. But ITA with you. I have only seen one lady who used a BKT a few times, stopped, and her hair was still healthy and her hair is very different from mine. Everyone's hair may look great and retain well but we don't really know what it would be like if they stopped.

I need some more proof of the condition of the hair under the BKT from people with hair like mine (type 4's). I would only use it as a temporary thing and then return to my normal curls, so I don't want to risk permanent damage.

Right. I have not seen many 4a/b's with long flowing results. The few that I have seen have a bit wavier texture....or had relaxers anyway.

 

[Lucky's Mom]

Just playing the devil's advocate here: I keep reading of BKT really helping with retention but I am yet to see any amazing difference between retention before BKT and after. The people named have either always had long hair and so still have long hair, or have acquired the average amount of hair their history showed they acquired in past years w/o BKT. Then I look at people who don't use BKT and press their hair often and I see the same progress. So does anyone have a success story that shows how they failed to retain length prior to BKT and then now are able to and have made strides in acquiring lengths they never could before?

Why is the word "bandwagon" ruffling feathers? It just means "a growing trend that is attracting support". So what if this was discovered in the previous century? Some folks like me are only hearing about it now and there are many asking questions and getting excited about it and other leaping on and trying it. So the BKT crowd is getting larger (ie the trend is growing) and those who are comfortable with it are supporting it and supporting those doing it. So it is a bandwagon and that doesn't make it evil or something for folks to be ashamed of.

But wouldn't not snipping ends off mean retaining them which is = retention which would then = to longer hair than we never had before? Especially since there is a belief that BKT makes hair stronger which would then mean stronger ends that aren't being snapped off. So wouldn't that mean retention as never before?

That's just the evidence I am yet to see.

Also I have seen BKT hair that looks thin--especially the ends (hence my referring to its results as I would imagine they'd look on me as "wisps of hair" . It would be nice to see it get thicker and fuller with time as it grows longer, further proving that not only is retention happening but also it is making hair "healthier" with time.

Excellent points......my sis Nonie...


And BTW..........................

WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?

I go on a date with DH last night.....- and come back to this?

This post was NEVER about strife or who is right or wrong.
It was about asking questions.
Heck - I bet alot of people wanted to know if they could use HENNA after BTK!!!!

Grow up people.

I am the QUEEN OF Ingredient Nazi-ism! Ask any of my e-buddies here!!!!

I use FOOD on my head - for goodness sake!

All the debate is silly - and NO one needed to go there.

There are people who Smokever18:, Drink, jump out of planes, eat too much, speed on the FWY, Eat fast food daily.....relax their hair - wear weaves that are too tight, Pick out PLATINUM Blonde wigs, and the like.


99% of these things - I don't do. And Won't. But - it is not up for debate.

I don't want to relax my hair - and then get cancer.... I have had 4 dear friends ( in their 40's) with stage 3 or worse cancers....And guess what. They don't have any hair to worry about anymore. After Chemo.... They have no hair.
That is MY experience.


When you are 20 you may think - invinicible....at 40 - I think - hmmmm vincible.....( This is MY OPINION...PLEASE do NOT ARGUE WITH ME about this!)
PLEASE....there is no need to debate this issue. That is why I did not. I asked questions... and people should respond............RESPECTFULLY.

One Freind's dr. asked her if she used any relaxers, etc... She told him no - and he stated that - relaxers and the products to maintain them can disrupt and break down her immune system..... due to the carcinogens....perplexed

I am scared Nappy.


BTK is a bandwagon. Like all the rest around here. If it STICKS and Works.....AWESOME. I think that it will work for those ladies who LIKE to keep their hair straight. I am not indicting them.

Henna was a bandwagon. It Stuck for many. I did not do it for 2 years.....

Baggying was a Bandwagon. 3 years ago - errrrbody was doing it. Now - it is like


OCT/ MT/Coochie Cream - BANDWAGON. I never ever jumped on that.
Coconut and Lime is a Bandwagon. Steam is a Bandwagon----

My point is - there is no need for debate.
I have had Napps for 10 years.

10 years ago...... It was not popular- and I was Shunned...... By Black women. NOW - they want my hair.

OK - I am done Ranting.

 

[PinkSkates]

Originally posted by SJLM
All the debate is silly - and NO one needed to go there.

There are people who Smokever18:, Drink, jump out of planes, eat too much, speed on the FWY, Eat fast food daily.....relax their hair - wear weaves that are too tight, Pick out PLATINUM Blonde wigs, and the like.

The above is funny as helz
Aloha SJLM,
girl don't let the hair craziness get to you. You know how they roll around LHCF!
We are both type 4 chicas with similar texture. I'm doing my research on BKT right now and if I decide to do it, which I'm pretty sure I will at this point, I will video and document everything, 'cause I will do it myself.
And I will video and picture monitor my hair from BKT day 1 to a year later to see how it affects my hair post BKT.
Keep smiling!

ETA: I plan on doing one application of BKT and then let it wear off.

 

[BklynHeart]

What about using the Divasmooth system? It seems to have more natural ingredients and will have the same outcome.

 

[vkb247]

I believe that SJLM does a diva smooth type treatment on a regular basis. That type of treatment is very natural and very different from a BKT.

 

[Lucky's Mom]

The above is funny as helz
Aloha SJLM,
girl don't let the hair craziness get to you. You know how they roll around LHCF!
We are both type 4 chicas with similar texture. I'm doing my research on BKT right now and if I decide to do it, which I'm pretty sure I will at this point, I will video and document everything, 'cause I will do it myself.
And I will video and picture monitor my hair from BKT day 1 to a year later to see how it affects my hair post BKT.
Keep smiling!

ETA: I plan on doing one application of BKT and then let it wear off.

- Just get tired of silliness!!!! People can go prove their points somewhere else!!! I went Shooting on Saturday night... at the firing range.... So I am ready to Bus' a cap!

What about using the Divasmooth system? It seems to have more natural ingredients and will have the same outcome.

DivaSmooth is a Honey-based Conditioner, that infuses moisture. That is it.

I believe that SJLM does a diva smooth type treatment on a regular basis. That type of treatment is very natural and very different from a BKT.

I have never used the DivaSmooth product. It was sent to me for free, but I have not used it.
I use Caramel Treatmentsfor moisture conditioning, and I Use coconut milk for smoothing results.

Diva Smooth and BTK are different.

 

[vkb247]

I have never used the DivaSmooth product. It was sent to me for free, but I have not used it.
I use Caramel Treatmentsfor moisture conditioning, and I Use coconut milk for smoothing results.

Diva Smooth and BTK are different.

I know that you use caramel treatments and IMO that is the same thing as Diva smooth.

 

[Lucky's Mom]

I know that you use caramel treatments and IMO that is the same thing as Diva smooth.

I would agree with you sista..... I think the moisture infusion is the key