Roman Catholicism/True Christianity

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sins through that act.

As far as salvation itself is concerned, basically they believe that you can't separate inward feelings and movements of the Spirit from outward "rituals" and actions in the Church. Moreover, they believe that their various practices were ordained by God and have God's Spirit moving in them, so they are not just empty actions, but God acting through them.

However, they will be just empty actions if the person taking the sacrament (Roman Catholic ones are: Baptism, Holy Orders, Confession, Matrimony, Communion, Unction of the Sick, Confirmation) doesn't him/herself have faith in the Lord who ordained them. This distinction is what I think is often missing in these congregations. IMO, many people end up simply falling into the ritual itself and having faith in the ritual itself, or simply taking comfort in the tradition, and don't really understand what they are supposed to be really believing in. Also IMO, that's why a lot of people who grow up in these denominations leave, complaining that it feels empty, because they were never taught the genuine meaning and significance of the ritual, and therefore have no connection to it. If you don't have faith, the sacraments will not communicate God's grace to you.

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As far as feelings go, I wouldn't say that feelings are what you need to be saved, if you're talking about a particular kind of emotional reaction. But, there is a difference between intellectually assenting to Jesus being God and Lord, and actually submitting yourself to Him. So if by "belief" you mean simply acknowledging that what the Bible says is true, then no, that's not enough ("for even the demons believe, and tremble"). But you must humble yourself before God and draw yourself into right relationship with Him, living in faith in and obedience to Him. Coming to this point is often a very emotional experience for people, which is why a lot of Christian's testimonies talk so much about the "feelings" involved. But getting to that point is the important part, not how you feel once you get there.

Hi, Kirwan. I rather forgot about the discussion . What about baptism? The infant cannot intellectually decide for himself what is and is not the truth but the parents obey a "command" to raise the child in the faith, much like Judaism. The child is confirmed at the age of reasoning but it cannot be forced. They have to make the conscious choice for the child. Obviously, there are those families who wish to save face and thus, a child is confirmed later without "feeling" it or that the family's actual commitment to living the faith to any degree of orthodoxy is lacking. And I don't think that one can truly take Holy Order nor Confessions without a committment to it. Esp. confession,the act of recognizing sin and obeying to confess it is in itself a return to truth. If there's any reason the priest doesn't believe the confessor, he isn't absolved.

What I believe to be true is that some fall from these traditional churches because the emotionality appears to be lacking compared to evangelical churches. Are those not the fastest growing churches in the world? Are they not even in turmoil now because of the new age and feel-good and name-it-claim-it theology creeping into them as though that in itself constitutes the gospel? Perhaps television has something to do with that. BTW, there is a growing renewal to G-d in Judaism, Catholicism and christianity in general, even Islam (absolutely fastest growing religion).

Therefore, people tend to equate evangelical protestant "feelings" that they are saved at some point in their lives with the actual salvation itself. I couldn't say that catholics don't realize how sin separates man from G-d since they have sacraments to bring man back into that living relationship with Him. So, when people who might well be better served participating in religious instruction and prayer groups in their own faith do not partake of that which is readily available, their confusion come in the comparison of their religious experiences with those of other sects and feeling they are lacking because they did not witness this emotionality and psychological manipulation often expressed in protestant congregations. They get to the point that *feelings are perceived as the determinent of whether one is saved or not and whether or not one has arrived at a universal truth. I've often heard it. People would say that they just didn't feel they knew G-d although they knew He existed, obeyed living a good life and participated in the sacraments. What else is there?

And you know, this just touches more on Judaism for me and demonstrating that catholicism is a more direct brother of Judaism esp. concerning how they incorporate traditions. There is the command to do and in doing, one learns why as they obey in doing. Has nothing to do with feeling it. You comprehend the deeper meanings as you live life and that's true for all people IMHO. Submission and intellectually assenting to the truth is taken care of in obedience. I don't think that having an emotional experience equates with repentance. It might intensify it, it might add a little more humanity to it but it doesn't actually become the repentance itself IMHO.