Rape: Should We Change How We View Men as Christian Women?

[MonPetite]

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[nathansgirl1908]

Perhaps not as clear as you thought.

hmmm. I guess. I just figured since my post was heavy on the drunken behavior comments and situations where you are alone and tempted, that it was clear I wasn't talking about the average situation where someone is accosted at a bus stop or mugged or something.

I'm just noting what is "common sense" for one is not for another --sometimes it is because people are willfully missing the obvious, other times it's not as obvious.

You may be right. But deep down I think most people know they shouldn't drink to the point of oblivion. Maybe they aren't as aware on the other issues like not going to a man's house after a date if you just met him or something lie that. But I have to wonder why that would even be the case why DON'T they know that? Is it because instead of teaching women things like that, women want to focus more on labeling rape as an act of dominance and get deep about it and focus on telling women they should be able to go to his house and not have anything happen?

 

[Laela]

You know what is sad about all this? There are men (and women) with questionable character who can put up a good facade. Saying "I'm Christian" is not enough. Sadly, this is how people get shocked and appalled when a 'pastor' or 'uncle' or someone they think they know does something vile to a child or woman. It's an age-old "secret" in the black community where family members are molesting children and the mothers/girlfriends are looking the other way (sometimes blaming the child) instead of dealing with the issue. "I know why the Caged Bird sings" the book, and "Precious" the movie attempted to address this issue.
Rape is not a sex crime, it's an act of violence by someone who feels they have no control. The devil goes to church, too.
When Jesus handpicked the 12 disciples, He said "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!". The devil goes to church, too.

I don't think we need to change our view of men. Women are capable of molestation...but should every woman be treated as a potential abuser?

There's an element of common sense to it. Don't put yourself in situations where you are vulnerable to men whose character you do not know. Many women are victimized by men they know, but simply knowing a man does not mean he is of good character. And I wouldn't leave my children with someone just because they're family.

Sent from my LS670 using LS670

 

[Shimmie]

@Shimmie I am not questioning the validity of a man and woman living together, I have heard both sides of the issue from Christians and actually lean toward your reasoning.

I was simply explaining to you that I was responding to another poster's statement that there is always something more. I don't believe there is always something more, I am careful in making conclusions about people's lives based on assumptions alone - that is the specific issue that I responded to in my second post. Again I am not debating the validity of opposite sex roommates, I asked a question, someone responded, and I responded to that poster. You responded to my response, and I provided clarification (I hope). That's all.


Blessings to you.

Okay... I'm sorry for misunderstanding.

 

[MonPetite]

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[dicapr]

LittleGoldenLamb, I couldn't have said it better myself. Yes women make silly and dangerous decisions everyday. We should teach one another how to stay safe. However, as long as society still views rape as an act of sex rather than a voilent act there will be those who see prevention as part of a woman's responsibility.

 

[LoveisYou]

@LittleGoldernLamb I couldn't agree more! Let every man be responsible for his own actions.

 

[nathansgirl1908]

*sighs and shakes head*

 

[MonPetite]

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[nathansgirl1908]

There's no degree of powerlessness that we fail to acknowledge. Here's my perspective:
I'm a practical person. I generally have little tolerance for sitting around and trying to be deep and philosophical about this. I just look at what is happening and desire a solution/remedy. Having said that, I will be blunt and say that it doesn't matter how you characterize rape. It's a violent sex act. Duh. That doesn't require as much thought or debate as people would like. What does require thought is what women can do to protect themselves. At this point, it's not WORKING to just sit there and say the men shouldn't do it. That's not accomplishing anything. I believe we would much more progress if women in general would stop trying to be philosophical about it and be more proactive. Teaching women that no matter what, he shouldn't touch you is not getting the job done. They need to be taught, if they don't already know, to be more cautious and careful. It's not rocket science that he shouldn't rape you. But I'm sure women see how difficult it is to deal with a rape case in court. As cold as it sounds, don't give them ammunition to work with. And if we want to be honest with ourselves, there also tend to be red flags in a man's character and behavior that women willingly ignore until it's too late.

 

[JinaRicci]

The fact is that you can't control everything that happens to you. You can take every precaution to reduce your chances but you can't eliminate them. We live in a progressively sinful world and whether they're Christian or not, you can't control or always predict other people's actions.

You can do everything right and still get run over by a drunk driver in broad daylight (God forbid) and that's a reality with which we have to deal. What we CAN do is pray for God's protection and mercies while using every ability that He gave us to keep safe.

No one is saying that a woman shouldn't protect herself. But this society, especially us women, need to stop believing that men just can't control themselves. They need to be given back the responsibility for their actions. You may miss a red flag one day because you're distracted, tired or just simply human. Is that an invitation?

 

[nathansgirl1908]

The fact is that you can't control everything that happens to you. You can take every precaution to reduce your chances but you can't eliminate them. We live in a progressively sinful world and whether they're Christian or not, you can't control or always predict other people's actions.

This really is not in opposition to what I'm saying. But I think some people don't want to even DISCUSS the fact that women SHOULD take more precautions than they do in some cases.

You can do everything right and still get run over by a drunk driver in broad daylight (God forbid) and that's a reality with which we have to deal. What we CAN do is pray for God's protection and mercies while using every ability that He gave us to keep safe.

Again, this is true. But I feel better when I know I have done all that I can do to prevent a situation.

No one is saying that a woman shouldn't protect herself. But this society, especially us women, need to stop believing that men just can't control themselves. They need to be given back the responsibility for their actions. You may miss a red flag one day because you're distracted, tired or just simply human. Is that an invitation?

It's not an invitation. But in many cases, there's typically behavior that has been on display by that man that should give a woman pause. Still, because people try to be so politically correct all the time, they don't want to be honest about what certain behaviors mean/indicate.

 

[SummerSolstice]

The fact is that you can't control everything that happens to you. You can take every precaution to reduce your chances but you can't eliminate them. We live in a progressively sinful world and whether they're Christian or not, you can't control or always predict other people's actions.

You can do everything right and still get run over by a drunk driver in broad daylight (God forbid) and that's a reality with which we have to deal. What we CAN do is pray for God's protection and mercies while using every ability that He gave us to keep safe.

No one is saying that a woman shouldn't protect herself. But this society, especially us women, need to stop believing that men just can't control themselves. They need to be given back the responsibility for their actions. You may miss a red flag one day because you're distracted, tired or just simply human. Is that an invitation?

This thread makes it seem as if men are just walking around lurking and waiting for that female that isn't acting chaste enough or something...
If my brother EVER even layed a FINGER on a woman without her permission... I don't care if she was passed out drunk and naked, my father and our family would hold him FULLY responsible. A penis doesn't make you a violent idiot.
I do however understand everyone's posts about the woman's responsibility.

 

[Shimmie]

There's no degree of powerlessness that we fail to acknowledge.

Here's my perspective:

I'm a practical person. I generally have little tolerance for sitting around and trying to be deep and philosophical about this. I just look at what is happening and desire a solution/remedy. Having said that, I will be blunt and say that it doesn't matter how you characterize rape.

It's a violent sex act. Duh. That doesn't require as much thought or debate as people would like. What does require thought is what women can do to protect themselves. At this point, it's not WORKING to just sit there and say the men shouldn't do it. That's not accomplishing anything.

I believe we would much more progress if women in general would stop trying to be philosophical about it and be more proactive. Teaching women that no matter what, he shouldn't touch you is not getting the job done. They need to be taught, if they don't already know, to be more cautious and careful. It's not rocket science that he shouldn't rape you. But I'm sure women see how difficult it is to deal with a rape case in court. As cold as it sounds, don't give them ammunition to work with.

And if we want to be honest with ourselves, there also tend to be red flags in a man's character and behavior that women willingly ignore until it's too late.

@the 'red' bolded....

Far too often than I'd like to admit, this is true. Many women 'ignore' the red flags.

This is not to discredit anyone's feeling's in this thread, I respect what everyone is sharing, however, 'red flag blindness' occurs far too often. Much of it is among 'Church' women who want so much to be married, and to have a 'man' in their lives.

Far too often a woman in 'Church' will see these red flags and makes a decision that she can 'fast', 'pray', 'speak the word' and 'change' this man.

Pausing for a minute here ....

I'll be the FIRST to tell anyone that I know that I know, that I know that prayer, fasting, speaking / appling the Word of God does indeed 'change' the hearts of even the coldest heart. I've been a witness to it.

However, there is a 'deception' among too many Church women (and some men too, ), that they can 'change' a person, however God is not in it and the change does not always take place and if / when a red flag changes into a flag of surrender , the woman has been to 'hades' and back and years of her life and vigor have been sorely spent upon something that God has not called her to.

It is imperative to 'acknowledge' the red flags, for they will surely stop one's hair growth / let alone their spiritual growth as they are not following God but their own human desires. Many times the devil will disguise a red flag as a red rose bush, however there are multiple thorns in the midst.

satan is roaming about seeking whom he may 'trick' and devour.

 

[MonPetite]

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[nathansgirl1908]

I'm on my phone and can't type a long response. However the only thing I want to say right now is that your illustration of how a defense attorney would construe working late is miguided. No jury would get down with that. Certainly not in this economy.

 

[MonPetite]

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[nathansgirl1908]

When I see those "upset" verdicts, there tends to be some element of major irresponsible behavior. I can't recall seeing a rape case where a woman was draggd brought the mud for working late or being mugged or what have you. I also don see the common sense Thing as a slippery slope. Again I reference the NY rape case against the cops. I also think about the William Smith rape case. That woman didn't know him from Adam but because he came from a rich family, she went back to his house in Palm Beach. Why would a woman do that with someone she doesn't know? And she caught flack for it during the case. But truthfully some of her actions made it difficult to prove that there wasn't consent.

 

[MonPetite]

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[dicapr]

I'm on my phone and can't type a long response. However the only thing I want to say right now is that your illustration of how a defense attorney would construe working late is miguided. No jury would get down with that. Certainly not in this economy.

A better example would be the policy adopted at the hospital where I work. We are located in a high crime area. Many men and women have complained about the poor lighting and lack of security provided for employees. We are instructed to call for an escourt to and from our vehicles during early morning and night hours. We cannot sue our employer for any crimes that may happen due to our unsafe environment because they provide security (per our contract). However, security during off hours is scarce and it may be up to 30 minutes before they arrive to escourt you to your work area. We have a strict no fault late policy-if you are late no matter what the reason it counts against you. So as a female, I have to make the decision to walk in to work (which is unsafe) to prevent disciplinary actions for tardiness. The hospital takes the stance that it is my fault for any crime comitted against me because I chose not to wait for an escort. So it is easier than you think for someone doing what is necessary to maintain employment to be turned around to absolve a guilty party of their action.

 

[Shimmie]

A better example would be the policy adopted at the hospital where I work. We are located in a high crime area. Many men and women have complained about the poor lighting and lack of security provided for employees. We are instructed to call for an escourt to and from our vehicles during early morning and night hours.

We cannot sue our employer for any crimes that may happen due to our unsafe environment because they provide security (per our contract). However, security during off hours is scarce and it may be up to 30 minutes before they arrive to escourt you to your work area.

We have a strict no fault late policy-if you are late no matter what the reason it counts against you. So as a female, I have to make the decision to walk in to work (which is unsafe) to prevent disciplinary actions for tardiness.

The hospital takes the stance that it is my fault for any crime comitted against me because I chose not to wait for an escort. So it is easier than you think for someone doing what is necessary to maintain employment to be turned around to absolve a guilty party of their action.

dicapr, I'm so sorry that you are facing this injustice.

The hospital is 'wrong'. They are literally using a double standard and it's not truly legal that they cannot be blamed as they are not providing you necessary security for the times needed for the shift changes and designated arrival times for staff to report for work.

I hate when companies do this hodge podge. They need to have active, dependable 'structured security' schedules according to the needs of the staff. It is THEN that they can 'cry' that they are not to blame when a staff person (God forbid) is harmed.

What's the point of having security if it's not being correctly structured? They are also responsible for having correct lighting and security cameras which 'fit' the needs of the area where they are located.

 

[MonPetite]

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[Shimmie]

When I see those "upset" verdicts, there tends to be some element of major irresponsible behavior. I can't recall seeing a rape case where a woman was draggd brought the mud for working late or being mugged or what have you. I also don see the common sense Thing as a slippery slope.

Again I reference the NY rape case against the cops. I also think about the William Smith rape case. That woman didn't know him from Adam but because he came from a rich family, she went back to his house in Palm Beach. Why would a woman do that with someone she doesn't know? And she caught flack for it during the case. But truthfully some of her actions made it difficult to prove that there wasn't consent.

Do you remember a case (a few years ago) about the 'Dancer' who performed at a fraternity party and was later raped by some of the men who attended?

I can't remember her name, but I think the case turned out against her and I'm more than sure the jury made their decision based upon the following:

She attended the party 'alone' (no escort)
The dance was not a 'Ballet' performance.
It was late hours
It was a party where she knew the men would be roudy and drinking.
frat members are known to be 'stupid'.

If I'm not mistaken, this is what hurt her case.

 

[Shimmie]

Agreed. This isn't right. I'm sorry you're being treated this way, as well.

This hospital is using Bullying tactics against it's employees. I'd sue them for breach of protection.

 

[Laela]

This..right there

Excellent point and that is why it's possible to get 'shocked' or 'surprised'. Hearing from God, having a discerning spirit keeps deception at bay. Great word...

@the 'red' bolded....

Far too often than I'd like to admit, this is true. Many women 'ignore' the red flags.

This is not to discredit anyone's feeling's in this thread, I respect what everyone is sharing, however, 'red flag blindness' occurs far too often. Much of it is among 'Church' women who want so much to be married, and to have a 'man' in their lives.

Far too often a woman in 'Church' will see these red flags and makes a decision that she can 'fast', 'pray', 'speak the word' and 'change' this man

...
satan is roaming about seeking whom he may 'trick' and devour.

 

[nathansgirl1908]

Do you remember a case (a few years ago) about the 'Dancer' who performed at a fraternity party and was later raped by some of the men who attended?

I can't remember her name, but I think the case turned out against her and I'm more than sure the jury made their decision based upon the following:

She attended the party 'alone' (no escort)
The dance was not a 'Ballet' performance.
It was late hours
It was a party where she knew the men would be roudy and drinking.
frat members are known to be 'stupid'.

If I'm not mistaken, this is what hurt her case.

I think you're talking about the Duke Lacrosse case. If so, that was my neck of the woods and it was ugly. It never went to trial but part of the problem WAS all of the things you mentioned. The charges were ultimately dropped due to prosecutorial misconduct. But other than the racial implications, most people viewed her as someone who put herself in harm's way.

Her behavior was irresponsible. And it made it even more difficult for Nifong to try and prosecute those boys.

 

[Rainbow Dash]

I have skimmed through this thread and agree that women have to protect themselves and no one ever deserves to be raped.

Before coming to the Lord, I remember when I was about 18. I went out with some friends and we met these guys, they seemed nice. (dumb, I know). Well, we did not have cars at the time and they gave us a ride to their house in the 'country'. We started playing cards and drinking. It was after I got tipsy, that I realized I had put myself in a bad situation. I hoped that somehow we would get out of this situation without being raped. One girl did not drink. She was kind of looking out for us and I believe this is the reason we were not taken advantage of. I tried my best to not go to the restroom or outside of the living room area. After that, I vowed to never put myself in a situation like that again.

 

[Shimmie]

I think you're talking about the Duke Lacrosse case. If so, that was my neck of the woods and it was ugly. It never went to trial but part of the problem WAS all of the things you mentioned. The charges were ultimately dropped due to prosecutorial misconduct. But other than the racial implications, most people viewed her as someone who put herself in harm's way.

Her behavior was irresponsible. And it made it even more difficult for Nifong to try and prosecute those boys.

NG, that's it. The Duke Lacorsse case. Okay.... now I remember the details more clearly. i remember how it didn't 'win out' for her. It was a mess. I pray she's been able to heal from this. I know she's been 'bricked' over the head time and again for her bad decisions with this.

Thanks again for helping me with the details of this.

 

[LoveisYou]

I understand being aware of te devil's tactics and I am not trying to be facetious but not everyone is saved or even Christian. They are NOT aware. So what are those women to do? What are the implications for them? What is our role as Christian women toward these women? Blame them? Accuse them? Is that doing any earthly good?

 

[LoveisYou]

Tho thread is quite unsettling to me....Not because I don't believe women shouldn't be wise and protect themselves but because I sense that some posters are blaming victims of rape. Rape, something that God does not condone.