Politics about hair live stream at Penn

[Amarilles]

i think race has everything to do this whole symp. heck, it's called "The Politics of Black Women's Hair..."

Context...I was talking about in reference to products, like the last girl. Yes this whole thing here is about black hair obviously, lol.

 

[LaBelleLL]

honestly, i'm not bothered by carol's daughter's demographic shift. her products aren't all that great. they can have it.

 

[LaBelleLL]

She's half Dominican, half Puerto Rican. I'm surprised she's considered mixed because that implies half one culture/half another. I'm 100% Dominican, but I would never call myself "mixed"...all the family I know came from one place. I think she considers herself black latina.

yeah idk. i kind of want to say that's the first time i have heard that. i'm 100% haitian and while you can clearly see the various influences in our family - we do not identify as mixed. haitian it is.

 

[Amarilles]

I do wonder why things always have to be political though. Black girl wearing her hair as it grows = political. Black natural girl straightening her hair = oh she trying to be white. Type 1 girls can curl their hair, type 2 girls can straighten it flat and no one thinks twice...they are so free.

yeah idk. i kind of want to say that's the first time i have heard that. i'm 100% haitian and while you can clearly see the various influences in our family - we do not identify as mixed. haitian it is.

Sweeeet, heey neighbor!

 

[LaBelleLL]

YAAAs, she is on point. blackness in the caribbean does mean something so different.

 

[LaBelleLL]

I do wonder why things always have to be political though. Black girl wearing her hair as it grows = political. Black natural girl straightening her hair = oh she trying to be white. Type 1 girls can curl their hair, type 2 girls can straighten it flat and no one thinks twice...they are so free.


Sweeeet, heey neighbor!

hey!

deep racial politics and deeply ingrained racist idealogies are why everything racial is politicized in the US. black girl wearing her hair as it grows in the US is political bc previously that image was negative, tied to slavery and poverty, was tied to ugliness. black girl straightening her was previously her way of distacing herself from blackness - something that has been cricized by the majority white society....i can go on and on....

 

[LaBelleLL]

i don't see the problem with a full face of makeup when you're doing a natural hair tutorial. but many of them don't even have a full face of MU.

MU is nice for everyone!

naptural hardly wears MU.

 

[LadyRaider]

My theory on this is that white women are just blissfully unaware of how abused by this culture they are. They straighten their hair all the time, hate their curly/wavy hair.

I think it is a political statement. In my case I was led to believe that my hair "needed" a relaxer. Like there was something wrong with it unless I got this expensive chemical treatment. Now I have discovered that my hair is just fine and doesn't "need" anything of the kind. To ME that is a political statement. But I am AWARE.

White women often do things, are buffeted by the culture, and just don't get what is happening to them. Why DO you have to spend an extra 20 minutes EVERY MORNING straightening your hair?

I do wonder why things always have to be political though. Black girl wearing her hair as it grows = political. Black natural girl straightening her hair = oh she trying to be white. Type 1 girls can curl their hair, type 2 girls can straighten it flat and no one thinks twice...they are so free.


Sweeeet, heey neighbor!

 

[Amarilles]

My theory on this is that white women are just blissfully unaware of how abused by this culture they are. They straighten their hair all the time, hate their curly/wavy hair.

I think it is a political statement. In my case I was led to believe that my hair "needed" a relaxer. Like there was something wrong with it unless I got this expensive chemical treatment. Now I have discovered that my hair is just fine and doesn't "need" anything of the kind. To ME that is a political statement. But I am AWARE.

White women often do things, are buffeted by the culture, and just don't get what is happening to them. Why DO you have to spend an extra 20 minutes EVERY MORNING straightening your hair?

Ah, so you believe that it's political just the same when they straighten it, but they aren't aware enough to ask why or be asked why? Hah...it does make sense.

It really is a shame how we are treated as if something is wrong if we want to stop relaxing. I emailed my mom a pic of my 11 month transition growth...and that was 3 days ago. She hasn't replied. Lol. I'm a little hurt but I guess I'm not expecting any less from my Hispanic family. It's just such a shame.

 

[LaBelleLL]

i have never heard of Caribbean natural products

 

[winona]

Really feeling convicted about buying from black businesses. I get a little impatient waiting for my "shescentit" box to come, but I need to stick with them. I love their products. Is "As I am" black owned? Is Curlmart?

No to both questions(As I Am Naturally and Curlmart)

Sent from my iPhone 5 using LHCF

 

[Ogoma]

Her husband could be black, she could be heavily involved in the community....or not. It's not right to call it inappropriate. I mean...I would then have to check myself, I embrace my black now but for years I shunned it, as most Hispanics do and are taught to do so. I'm black, but not culturally so. It's racists to shun her just because she's white. But I agree that's it weird.

As a black person that is not American, I am always curious about sentiments such as the bolded. What exactly does it mean? Do you think in the process of shunning you lost your connection to AA culture or any other black-dominated culture you would normally have been part of? How did your parents interact with their culture?

ETA: Saw your comment on your Dominican roots. I assume the black in the culture you reference is AA.

 

[thatscuteright]

This is awesome. I catched the last part of the first portion, will tune in again at 1. Thanks!

I believe As I Am is black owned yes. No idea about CurlMart.

"As I am " is Indian , Middle Eastern or Pakistani. Not Black owned.

ETA:

So many Black Hair Companies are not Black Owned.
Everyone jumps on the bandwagon because studies have shown Black women spend 10x more $$$$ on their hair then any other race of women, so everyone wants a piece of the Black hair care market.

 

[Ogoma]

"As I am " is Indian , Middle Eastern or Pakistani. Not Black owned.

ETA:

So many Black Hair Companies are not Black Owned.
Everyone jumps on the bandwagon because Black women are known to send 10x more $$$$ on their hair then any other race of women, so everyone wants a piece of the Black hair care market.

Neither is Curlmart or Aveyou, but they are just middlemen. I am more interested that the creators of the products are black because that is where the highest margins are. I do have non-black

I thought As I Am is owned by another larger, well-known brand? Design Essential, Keracare or something similar.

 

[thatscuteright]

Neither is Curlmart or Aveyou, but they are just middlemen. I am more interested that the creators of the products are black because that is where the highest margins are. I do have non-black

I thought As I Am is owned by another larger, well-known brand? Design Essential, Keracare or something similar.

No, it was created by the same Chemist that did product development for those companies as well.

 

[LaBelleLL]

ohhh it's Cara B naturally not Caribbean natural . it looks pretty good!

 

[Amarilles]

As a black person that is not American, I am always curious about sentiments such as the bolded. What exactly does it mean? Do you think in the process of shunning you lost your connection to AA culture or any other black-dominated culture you would normally have been part of? How did your parents interact with their culture?

This can get tricky. It's not a lie that Hispanics have issues accepting their black, so anything African gets put aside whereas all things European (Spanish in my case) are highlighted. Aside from that, black Hispanics in the US have a different culture than black Americans. As this is a hair conversation, one culture difference I'll mention is simply, fake hair. Once I'm fully natural I will wear my hair however I want, afro, whatever, you name it. But for some reason I cannot identify with box braids, sew ins, senegalese braids, wigs or even very extravagant hairstyles like what Ms. Abenaa is rocking in the panel right now, which is probably her real hair... but it's not in my culture. Dominicans shunned those hairstyles and I do realize that it's why I wouldn't feel like me in braids. However I've been stepping out to the corner store (across the street) in twists....and trust me, that is big. Lol.

As far as my parents...no. They were of course years older than I when we relocated to the states (I was 5) they are very far away from black people. They would never call themselves black. There is no connection, black people might as well be Russians. I wasn't shunned by black people in school it was all the contrary, "they" were straight with me and I was straight with "them". I think the difference now is that I acknowledge my black, there is no "them" anymore.

 

[Ogoma]

Amarilles

Thanks for the reply. It seems you are conflating color with ethnicity. There is no one black culture, but various ethnicities and cultures of, what we colloquially call, black people.

I don't know if 'fake' hair is cultural, but I could be wrong . I guess hairstyles could be cultural.

 

[Amarilles]

"As I am " is Indian , Middle Eastern or Pakistani. Not Black owned.

ETA:

So many Black Hair Companies are not Black Owned.
Everyone jumps on the bandwagon because studies have shown Black women spend 10x more $$$$ on their hair then any other race of women, so everyone wants a piece of the Black hair care market.

Pakistani?!! OMG I don't even use As I Am and I'm feeling mad cheated right now

 

[Amarilles]

Amarilles

Thanks for the reply. It seems you are conflating color with ethnicity. There is no one black culture, but various ethnicities and cultures of, what we colloquially call, black people.

I don't know if 'fake' hair is cultural, but I could be wrong . I guess hairstyles could be cultural.

Yes, exactly. In reality this is why Hispanics just stick to that word. Most Hispanics are a mix of African, European and Native American. I never identified with any of those things though. So this is how people end up saying "no I'm not black I'm Hispanic" but I don't think it's necessarily to deny black, black can also be replaced by white and Native American in that sentence. Anyway as per my DNA test, I'm 61.7% Sub-Saharan African, so I'm going with black Hispanic and that's it

Hairstyles can definitely be cultural...without a doubt.

 

[LadyRaider]

The broadcast started breaking up so i didnt get to enjoy the last segment.

 

[koolkittychick]

Oh my goodness, you ladies made my day with letting me know about this!!! Attending this symposium virtually while working at my desk made my Friday afternoon that much brighter.

It's opportunities like these that make me appreciate the benefits of our (truly) world wide web, and the wonderful community I share with you ladies here on LHCF.

I will be on the lookout for more events like these, so keep posting them OP, and I will do my part to share as well.

P.S. I hope we get to see highlights from this symposium soon on Melissa Harris-Perry's show soon, as her camera crews were there filming.

 

[LadyRaider]

Yes, exactly. In reality this is why Hispanics just stick to that word. Most Hispanics are a mix of African, European and Native American. I never identified with any of those things though. So this is how people end up saying "no I'm not black I'm Hispanic" but I don't think it's necessarily to deny black, black can also be replaced by white and Native American in that sentence. Anyway as per my DNA test, I'm 61.7% Sub-Saharan African, so I'm going with black Hispanic and that's it

Hairstyles can definitely be cultural...without a doubt.

The professor who took me under her wing at UT was a Latina. (There were no black professors in my program at the time.) She hates the term Hispanic. She and others want zero connection to the Spanish who basically raped and stole from the American and other peoples.

As an aside, I love that Latino/as basically blow up any and every notion of genetic race. Ethnicity... culture... sure. But race? Not when
you have to consider all those black white and brown Latinos... and then the middle east... Iraqis are white!

 

[Kurlee]

mad as hell that I missed this.

 

[thatscuteright]

Pakistani?!! OMG I don't even use As I Am and I'm feeling mad cheated right now

I am not quite sure what he identifies as, that is why I put Indian, Pakistani or Middle Eastern based on the name and photo.

http://www.avlon.com/president.html

Dr. Ali N. Syed

Avlon Industries, Inc.

Type Private
Industry Hair care
Founded 1984
Headquarters Melrose Park, Illinois
Key people Dr. Ali N. Syed, President
Website www.avlon.com
Avlon is an international firm whose principal activity lies in manufacturing and marketing hair care products under brands such as Affirm, FiberGuard, Ferm, KeraCare, and MoisturColor.

 

[Amarilles]

The professor who took me under her wing at UT was a Latina. (There were no black professors in my program at the time.) She hates the term Hispanic. She and others want zero connection to the Spanish who basically raped and stole from the American and other peoples.

As an aside, I love that Latino/as basically blow up any and every notion of genetic race. Ethnicity... culture... sure. But race? Not when
you have to consider all those black white and brown Latinos... and then the middle east... Iraqis are white!

It's definitely a toss up, I have never and will never call myself "Latina". I have no idea how the heck this happens and we pick and choose to see ourselves one way but not another. My island is called Hispaniola, I'm Hispanic. In reality I think this is just semantics, it depends where one grows up. In Florida (home state) me and those around me use Hispanic, not Latino/a.

Lol...you're most definitely correct. I think Hispanics/Latinos are never taught to embrace race because there's no one around to represent it. No one around is fully black, nor fully white nor fully Indian and so...it's easily forgotten. Mixed people at least have family who represent/embody their respective halves...Hispanics don't have this luxury.

 

[koolkittychick]

It's definitely a toss up, I have never and will never call myself "Latina". I have no idea how the heck this happens and we pick and choose to see ourselves one way but not another. My island is called Hispaniola, I'm Hispanic. In reality I think this is just semantics, it depends where one grows up. In Florida (home state) me and those around me use Hispanic, not Latino/a.

Lol...you're most definitely correct. I think Hispanics/Latinos are never taught to embrace race because there's no one around to represent it. No one around is fully black, nor fully white nor fully Indian and so...it's easily forgotten. Mixed people at least have family who represent/embody their respective halves...Hispanics don't have this luxury.

Sorry to call you on this, but what you say is not necessarily true. My family is also from Hispaniola...the black side of it, otherwise known as Haiti, where it is as black as the Caribbean gets except maybe for Jamaica. And even though one of my grandmothers is Dominican (she was Taino Indian in fact) and I am CONSTANTLY presumed to be Hispanic in the part of Florida where I live, I am Haitian, and identify has black. There are many representatives of fully black people in the Dominican Republic (the side of the island where I am guessing your family is from), it's just that the culture over there rejects them lock, stock and barrel. One of my coworkers is Dominican, and we look scarily alike -- same skin color, hair length, general build -- so much so that we are constantly mistaken for each other until you get up close. Yet she not only says she's Hispanic, she will categorically deny that she has any Black in her background, despite working with her literal doppelganger (me), who is most definitely black. I think it's not so much as the lack of representation, but the rejection of it, that is pervasive among Dominicans, and much of Latin America.

 

[Amarilles]

Sorry to call you on this, but what you say is not necessarily true. My family is also from Hispaniola...the black side of it, otherwise known as Haiti, where it is as black as the Caribbean gets except maybe for Jamaica. And even though one of my grandmothers is Dominican (she was Taino Indian in fact) and I am CONSTANTLY presumed to be Hispanic in the part of Florida where I live, I am Haitian, and identify has black. There are many representatives of fully black people in the Dominican Republic (the side of the island where I am guessing your family is from), it's just that the culture over there rejects them lock, stock and barrel. One of my coworkers is Dominican, and we look scarily alike -- same skin color, hair length, general build -- so much so that we are constantly mistaken for each other until you get up close. Yet she not only says she's Hispanic, she will categorically deny that she has any Black in her background, despite working with her literal doppelganger (me), who is most definitely black. I think it's not so much as the lack of representation, but the rejection of it, that is pervasive among Dominicans, and much of Latin America.

I don't remember denying any of that though. I said various times that Hispanics (Dominicans especially) have issues accepting their black, even if they themselves have very dark skin.

If your friend denies she has any black in her she is deluded, she just doesn't accept it. I 100% agree that this is a common issue, I would like to know where I said otherwise. I don't see how this negates the fact that we aren't taught to accept our black, our white, our Indian and this is why we reject it. No one in D.R is representing Africa. Your friend doesn't identify with black but she probably doesn't identify with the other two either, and if so, I definitely understand her. African Americans are a mixed people as far as ancestry goes too, and I don't see any black Americans identifying as anything but black. Well, it's similar.

A real problem arises when someone accepts one thing but not another. Your friend denying she's black is an issue and as someone who went through the same identity crisis, I understand her. You try identifying with a race that even speaks a different language than you do...and tell me how you fair. I'm not saying it's right (because clearly we ARE black) but I understand.

 

[MileHighDiva]

I missed it. I hope they post it to Coursera or YouTube.

Sent from my Speak & Spell using LHCF

 

[Kurlee]

I do wonder why things always have to be political though. Black girl wearing her hair as it grows = political. Black natural girl straightening her hair = oh she trying to be white. Type 1 girls can curl their hair, type 2 girls can straighten it flat and no one thinks twice...they are so free.


Sweeeet, heey neighbor!

historical context makes it political and we, as those that are affected by it, should be critical of it.