Placebo effect?

[webby]

So what do you say to well heck ME where my growth rate BEFORE MTG (no vitamins, but still good diet) was 1/2 inch per month and after I was getting 1-1.5 inches? If I had no other change in diet or regime then what would you attribute it to.

I wish someone would do a clinical trial of it and see how it stacks up because I would definately put my money down on it.

I really don't understand why you're getting so charged up. If you found something that works and makes YOUR hair grow faster, then great. However, my question was merely food for thought.

This thread was never meant to say that ALL members here are dillusional.

I was merely sharing my thoughts. I've had my hair very long before and never used any "get there fast" products. It's only as of late that I've used such formulas.

Please, don't take this thread personally, there was nothing in my original post aimed at any one, or any one product.

 

[MomofThreeBoys]

hmmmm.....
When I first joined the boards, I used Surge and got 1 inch per month. I stopped using Surge in the spring and now I'm down to 1/2 inch per month.

I had to stop b/c though the surge was increasing the growth rate, my hair shaft did not like the protein.

I'm still doing protective styles like I did when I had surge plus I thought I would get a boost because its warmer now. There's no way to know for absolute sure, but it does seem that the increase growth rate was due to surge.

 

[webby]

hmmmm.....
When I first joined to boards, I used Surge and got 1 inch per month. I stopped using Surge in the spring and now I'm down to 1/2 inch per month.

I had to stop b/c though the surge was increasing the growth rate, my hair shaft did not like the protein.

I'm still doing protective styles like I did when I had surge plus I thought I would get a boost because its warmer now. There's no way to know for absolute sure, but it does seem that the increase growth rate was due to surge.

Thanks Nat. You and Dana brought opposing view, without taking the question personally

 

[LaNecia]

There is some disagreement about what actually causes the benefit of a "placebo pill". But some think it is psychological. In other words, some people believe in something and this belief has a powerful effect, even on the hormones and reactions of the body. Consider that experiments have been done where people were given inert pills or treatments and yet had great results. Warts disappeared, asthma got better, etc...all from "placebo" treatments that were sometimes mere suggestions.

Again, I am not saying there are no products that work, or that people do not get results from certain products. I am just trying to explain more about the placebo effect and the fact that it is possible to get results from products that actually have no benefit.

You are quickly becoming one of my favorites!

While I understand what you and Webby are saying, I see Annakei's point and want to play devil's advocate here..

I just pulled up an article about hysterial pregnancies where women, when they believed themselves to be pregnant "Pseudocyesis" Several names have been given to this condition including spurious pregnancy, feigned pregnancy, imaginary pregnancy, hysterical pregnancy, wind in the bowels, and grosses nerveuse. John Mason Good coined the term pseudocyesis from the Greek words pseudes (false) and kyesis (pregnancy) in 1923.[sup.]3 Flanders Dunbar defined pseudocyesis in 1938 as "a condition in which a woman firmly believes herself to be pregnant and develops objective pregnancy signs in the absence of pregnancy."[sup.]1 Although pseudocyesis is occasionally reported in men as well as in women, this definition holds true today.

To me this bears some similarity to the placebo affect being discussed, bottom line, if your mind can believe it, your body can achieve it...

I do not alter my 'claims' in faster growth from what I use in the least bit, but I do understand the point and it is within the realm of possibility. Whether it is factual in your (editorially speaking) individual situation, only you can decide that. As always, I rarely ever really push a product. If you like it and it works for YOU, go for it! There is no right or wrong in this, just opinions.

 

[moda]

You are quickly becoming one of my favorites!

While I understand what you and Webby are saying, I see Annakei's point and want to play devil's advocate here..

I just pulled up an article about hysterial pregnancies where women, when they believed themselves to be pregnant "Pseudocyesis" Several names have been given to this condition including spurious pregnancy, feigned pregnancy, imaginary pregnancy, hysterical pregnancy, wind in the bowels, and grosses nerveuse. John Mason Good coined the term pseudocyesis from the Greek words pseudes (false) and kyesis (pregnancy) in 1923.[sup.]3 Flanders Dunbar defined pseudocyesis in 1938 as "a condition in which a woman firmly believes herself to be pregnant and develops objective pregnancy signs in the absence of pregnancy."[sup.]1 Although pseudocyesis is occasionally reported in men as well as in women, this definition holds true today.

To me this bears some similarity to the placebo affect being discussed, bottom line, if your mind can believe it, your body can achieve it...

I do not alter my 'claims' in faster growth from what I use in the least bit, but I do understand the point and it is within the realm of possibility. Whether it is factual in your (editorially speaking) individual situation, only you can decide that. As always, I rarely ever really push a product. If you like it and it works for YOU, go for it! There is no right or wrong in this, just opinions.

Well said Lanecia. I was not trying to say it is impossible that any of these things cause hair growth, I just think when some experience hair growth they do not take into account the other possibilities.

 

[qtgirl]

The only growth thing I firmly believe in is Surge because I've sprayed it on places other than my head and got growth where there was like none (can we say sideburns) But that has real SCIENTIFIC reasons behind it. In fact I need to start using it again, I only stopped because I was wearing my hair out and straight a lot.

The verdict is still out on MTG for me, but I'm really not using it as much as I should because of the smell.

 

[Poohbear]

Any change you make, whether it's with your diet or the choice products you use on your hair, will make a difference or have some kind of effect on your hair. No one is doubting that you have seen more growth after using the Surge/MTG combo nor I'm I saying that your hair isn't growing... we're mainly talking about the placebo effect that these 'growth aid' products may have on you. There's nothing for me to think over here because I myself have tried a few things and found out for myself that no hair product will make your hair grow faster. It has to do with your genes, hair growth cycle/phases, how you take care of your hair (in order to retain the length you grow), and what you do with your body & put into your body.

Well, in my case it has, and I have pictures to prove it. Not that I NEED to but do if I have to do pluck down the doubters out here. Again, I dont think that any of us (unless you are a medical doctor...and still, everyone's body is different) can TELL the other that NO your hair isnt growing as you say it is. PAHLEASE. There are many of us who take different combinations of things to make their hair grow. I take vitamins and use Surge/MTG. I started seeing a change after using the SURGE/MTG combo and THEN added the supplements and then changed my diet. Others only take vitamins, others only use topical things like MTG to increase growth. After seeing some FOTKI albums here, I know that it is possible with good health, excercise and even a topical product that is formulated to increase growth that it can happen. Take women who have alopecia that can attest to <insert hair product here> hellping then increase hair growth in a certain area. My step mother is in the same situation and used another produc to stimulate growth and it has totally worked for her....afterwards she began to change her diet and be more active.
Think it over...

So are you saying that after giving that testimony which I deem true that I am somehow mistaken? LOL I think not. I just think that until you find something that works for you then you'll still be a doubter. You don't have to believe it but know that for ME and many others reading it works.

 

[moneychaser]

Certain products and vitamins can help with the appearance and structure of hair but I don't think it speeds up your natural growth rate. The only way I can see anything effecting my rate is if I were deficient in certain nutrients before vitamins and they boosted me to my maximum growth rate.

But this is my personal opinion.

I'll buy that

 

[Poohbear]

Very interesting excerpt from the article.... and you're right, there's no right or wrong answer, just opinions and views based on individual experiences.

You are quickly becoming one of my favorites!

While I understand what you and Webby are saying, I see Annakei's point and want to play devil's advocate here..

I just pulled up an article about hysterial pregnancies where women, when they believed themselves to be pregnant "Pseudocyesis" Several names have been given to this condition including spurious pregnancy, feigned pregnancy, imaginary pregnancy, hysterical pregnancy, wind in the bowels, and grosses nerveuse. John Mason Good coined the term pseudocyesis from the Greek words pseudes (false) and kyesis (pregnancy) in 1923.[sup.]3 Flanders Dunbar defined pseudocyesis in 1938 as "a condition in which a woman firmly believes herself to be pregnant and develops objective pregnancy signs in the absence of pregnancy."[sup.]1 Although pseudocyesis is occasionally reported in men as well as in women, this definition holds true today.

To me this bears some similarity to the placebo affect being discussed, bottom line, if your mind can believe it, your body can achieve it...

I do not alter my 'claims' in faster growth from what I use in the least bit, but I do understand the point and it is within the realm of possibility. Whether it is factual in your (editorially speaking) individual situation, only you can decide that. As always, I rarely ever really push a product. If you like it and it works for YOU, go for it! There is no right or wrong in this, just opinions.

 

[bocagirl]

I have been watching the persons who claim to be growing at a faster rate, especially the ones with extreme growth rates and what I realise is that at the end of three months or so their hair is still basically the same, or they are again complaining of hair not growing. Quite a few should have reached brastrap by now and they have not, but if they believe it I guess it's all good for them.

There is no need to get upset in the thread, if it works for you fine but it doesn't mean that everyone must agree with what you say.

 

[MonaLisa]

My coworker wears her hair shaved close to her scalp.
Last week, she accidently put the wrong size guard on her buzzers and took her hair down too short (dayum near bald in the back). I returned from vacation and she's got hair again.

It occured to me, that even when we shave our legs in the morning, by the end of the day it's possible to feel stubble, right?

So, that means that most of the products that promise amazing hair growth, cannot possibly do anything to speed up the process. Our hair is going to grow at the rate is it supposed to grow at, unless it is slowed down due to meds or stress.

Are we experiencing hair growth, or is it a placebo effect? What do you think?

I think it's more of a placebo effect....although some products may add some stimulation to the scalp/follicles...in turn stimulating a little faster growth than one might normally be accustomed to or help speed up growth in a troublesome area.

I think most products, for me anyway, have helped me retain hair/length, moreso than making it grow. Hair is going to grow regardless.

 

[london honey]

Person starts using surge because XXXX says it makes your hair grow, well then they can't style their hair because surge is water based, so they are in a bun all month, then since they are in a bun they are exercising since their hair is pulled back anyway and then they are eating healthier because they don't want to negate the exercise, and then they are increasing protein intake because they are weight training and they gain 1" of growth vs their normal 1/2", so it had to be the surge right erplexed

sorry, this made me laugh

 

[Honi]

Hmm...interesting topic. I think there could be many reasons as to why one would experience"growth" and others no significant difference. One of them could be what stage your hair is in it's growth cycle. If it's in it's growth phase then I can see why one would think that it's the product that attributed to it's growth.

Companies/people like to play around with words such as "stimulant", "promote healthy hair growth", etc. I think sometimes we expect too much from a product when buzz words like this are placed onto the package. They are not going to tell you how much your going to get, just that you should expect "something." There are some essential oils out there that claim to do this. By what mechanism I don't know but I'm sure it may help just a little. The same could be said for cayenne pepper (I think this just increases blood circulation to the areas applied therefore the follicles receive more blood rich nutrients??? I dunno). I just don't think your going to go from 1/4 inch to 2 inches a month with any product.

Multiple considerations should also be taken into account such as your health, eating habits, etc since this is where the building blocks of healthy hair begins anyway...in your scalp. If your overall health is crappy then you should not expect a product put on your head to speed up anything.

So I say all this to say that good health, eating habits, exercise, good HAIR caring habits, etc we already KNOW works. A product with "stimulants"/insert product here, could contribute to minor but not major jaw dropping results.

 

[MonaLisa]

I am not knocking it either, but I just about fall out of my chair when I see XXXXX post such great "progress" shots from ______ and then ______ made YYYYY hair grow 2" in 30 days, so then XXXXX runs and orders it, makes me a little complexed and then at the end of the year XXXXX and YYYYY still ain't hit brastrap when they predicted they would in 3 months

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Complexed...is a good word to use...

 

[london honey]

I believe that some can grow from 1/2 to 1.5 inches a month if their hair was previously not growing at the optimal level. If you are currently achieving the best growth at the moment no additional topical product can improve that. MTG/Surge can stimulate inactive follicles and make hair grow faster.

Even though i'm a strong believer in the placebo effect, i'm still undecided on the effect on growth stimulants because the horses do not know what its being applied to their tail so these physological effects cant possibly increase growth on horses.

 

[MonaLisa]

The only growth thing I firmly believe in is Surge because I've sprayed it on places other than my head and got growth where there was like none (can we say sideburns) But that has real SCIENTIFIC reasons behind it. In fact I need to start using it again, I only stopped because I was wearing my hair out and straight a lot.

Okay, I do have to go with this...cause Surge did help me with my hairline...

this thread has me complexed now...

 

[LaNecia]

This thread has me complexed now...

Gotta blame it on SOMETHING!!

 

[Neroli]

Why does someone always know someone who knew someone who grew their hair really fast in 6 months...

Anyways I always chuck it up to THAT person has a faster growth rate than ME.

Certain products and vitamins can help with the appearance and structure of hair but I don't think it speeds up your natural growth rate. The only way I can see anything effecting my rate is if I were deficient in certain nutrients before vitamins and they boosted me to my maximum growth rate.

But this is my personal opinion.

\

ITA .. .

 

[pink_flower]

Okay, I do have to go with this...cause Surge did help me with my hairline...

this thread has me complexed now...

I think u hit it on the head earlier when u said somethings will help with 'troublesome areas'. Things like thin edges, a bald spot, broken nape area are common issues that I think scalp massages or Surge might help. But to use something all over your head with the hopes of increasing growth is wishful thinking,IMO.


ETA: I also want to add that not EVERYONE will achieve 1+ inch a month. I know thats like hitting the lotto around this mug but folks got different growth rates.

 

[secretdiamond]

Okay, I do have to go with this...cause Surge did help me with my hairline...

this thread has me complexed now...

The question is .... did Surge help your hairline to grow faster OR did it help it to fill in?

B/c if it helped it fill in, then that's not necessarily faster growth, BUT it did aid in the stimulation of certain hair follicles that were dorminant and breaking and just not growing (as is what happened to my hairline). So it just helped the hair follicles to start to grow again, but no not necessarily to grow faster.

However, if it also sped up your normal growth rate, then that's even better. (I'm not sure if I explained myself correctly)

 

[MonaLisa]

The question is .... did Surge help your hairline to grow faster OR did it help it to fill in?

B/c if it helped it fill in, then that's not necessarily faster growth, BUT it did aid in the stimulation of certain hair follicles that were dorminant and breaking and just not growing (as is what happened to my hairline). So it just helped the hair follicles to start tp grow again, but no not necessarily to grow faster.

However, if it also sped up your normal growth rate, then that's even better. (I'm not sure if I explained myself correctly)

Okay...I think that's the case...what you and Pinkflower are saying in terms of using Surge and the hairline...cause it was like nothing was happening...then all of a sudden, it started coming back.

As far the rest of my hair...learning how to start implementing moisture in my hair, leaving it the heck alone and not be up in it all the time and finding products that finally agreed with my hair...were key in my finally retaining length again and reducing breakage.

 

[Ayeshia]

All I know is that I dont want a third titty later down the years...so I opt not to jump on the band wagon of any of these products. I'll just wait the three more years until I see some length going on. Whoever got astounding hair grwoth congrats and may the peace be with you

 

[MonaLisa]

Danggit A! Did u have to bring the third tata up into the mix???

 

[BMoreFlyy]

ITA!


I'm still iffy on hair growth products myself. I often wonder how people can really know if its one product when they do so many different things to promote growth.

IA with pink_flower. Because I mean you really can't tell what's working when you're using several different products. So, I would say its' the placebo effect.

 

[DDTexlaxed]

Wow, this is a deep subject. I too was skeptical about products and claims until I tried Surge & MTG. These 2 products have helped my hair grow longer. I think placebo products stop working in time. The results have been consecutive. I don't belive all products tht CLAIM TO GROW HAIR works, just these two. Besides, no two persons will have the same effect. What works for me may not work for you, but that doesn't mean it's placebo. it means we're different, right?

 

[Annakei]

Wow, this is a deep subject. I too was skeptical about products and claims until I tried Surge & MTG. These 2 products have helped my hair grow longer. I think placebo products stop working in time. The results have been consecutive. I don't belive all products tht CLAIM TO GROW HAIR works, just these two. Besides, no two persons will have the same effect. What works for me may not work for you, but that doesn't mean it's placebo. it means we're different, right?

I agree. Just means what may work for me won't necessarily work for you.

 

[Mahalialee4]

Re: No big diff in length...A couple of other factors need to be considered. For example.: People who have layers in there hair. When the layers start to catch up to the longest layers, a lot of growing is going on and although it is not showing up in the length it is showing up in the thickness and filling in areas. If people are measuring those areas and seeing obvious growth as compared to a time frame when those were the slowest growing areas....I think they are absolutely certain that a lot of growth has occurred. Hair seems to grow that way, first the layers fill out and then the longest layer starts to grow out. It may appear that their length is the same but actually the growth was happening in other areas. I know that happens with me, and that is what gets so frustrating. When it thickens and bushes out, you see less length too. When you start to get the curl wave thing going on, you see more volume and the length is less noticeable. I do think that a variety of products promote hair growth and faster growth, maybe not specifically faster than what it would normally grow at its maximum speed potential, but definitely more than it was in the past, when there were factors operating that were slowing or hindering maximum speed potential. Hope this helps. I also believe that the msp is subjective or individually based. Bonjour

 

[MissYocairis]

Our hair is going to grow at the rate is it supposed to grow at, unless it is slowed down due to meds or stress.

Are we experiencing hair growth, or is it a placebo effect? What do you think?

Hi Webby. Two things.....1) If we are experiencing a "Placebo Effect", then we are experiencing desired results. The placebo effect is a term for giving someone a fake remedy and being able to see measured desired improvement from the fake remedy at the end of the trial period. So, essentially, if our hair growth cannot be improved by, say, MTG, but we see a marked, measured difference (improvement), but we know for a fact the MTG is ineffective, then, the "placebo effect" is that somehow, our minds influenced the outcome of the experiment when given the fake remedy (or placebo) and we still managed to exhibit a REAL desired result.

2) Also, if meds and stress can slow down a person's rate of hair growth, wouldn't it stand to reason that certain other factors could enhance and/or improve a person's rate of hair growth as well? I would think diet would be at the very tip top of this list as something that could greatly impact how fast your hair grows. Bad diet yields bad skin, bad organs, bad blood --- why wouldn't it yield bad hair? And, why wouldn't the opposite yield better hair?

 

[webby]

2) Also, if meds and stress can slow down a person's rate of hair growth, wouldn't it stand to reason that certain other factors could enhance and/or improve a person's rate of hair growth as well? I would think diet would be at the very tip top of this list as something that could greatly impact how fast your hair grows. Bad diet yields bad skin, bad organs, bad blood --- why wouldn't it yield bad hair? And, why wouldn't the opposite yield better hair?

Great response!
I thought of this too, but based upon my research, it seems that there is nothing that can speed up rate of hair growth, scientifically. Now, I'm not stating this to be fact, just recalling what I've read. In fact, just yesterday, in a Spanish exercise we were doing, in the OT section, we translated something that said that there is no "magic" to speed up hair growth.

Well, I guess this is not a question with a cut-n-dry answer

 

[Poohbear]

Great post indeed!!!

Hi Webby. Two things.....1) If we are experiencing a "Placebo Effect", then we are experiencing desired results. The placebo effect is a term for giving someone a fake remedy and being able to see measured desired improvement from the fake remedy at the end of the trial period. So, essentially, if our hair growth cannot be improved by, say, MTG, but we see a marked, measured difference (improvement), but we know for a fact the MTG is ineffective, then, the "placebo effect" is that somehow, our minds influenced the outcome of the experiment when given the fake remedy (or placebo) and we still managed to exhibit a REAL desired result.

2) Also, if meds and stress can slow down a person's rate of hair growth, wouldn't it stand to reason that certain other factors could enhance and/or improve a person's rate of hair growth as well? I would think diet would be at the very tip top of this list as something that could greatly impact how fast your hair grows. Bad diet yields bad skin, bad organs, bad blood --- why wouldn't it yield bad hair? And, why wouldn't the opposite yield better hair?