OH MY! I did not know this bit of History about Relaxers...

[glamazon386]

I agree.

I do wonder sometimes, though, why there's not a bigger backlash against fake hair. I mean, you are gluing someone else's hair (and that someone is usually Asian, or in some cases, white) to your own scalp in order to capture their standard of beauty. I don't believe there are many black manufacturers of weave, either. I'm not knocking weave, but it seems like chemicals get the brunt of the disdain. I would think they would be almost equal in terms of the "sell out" factor.

Or is that because some naturals use weaves sometimes?

That's a good question. Maybe it's for the same reason that people don't have a problem with braids but have one with weaves. Aren't they both fake hair being attached to your head? What's the difference?

 

[~*~ShopAholic~*~]

One thing I do know is that Bmoreflygirl wears the HECk!! out of her weaves, you grow girl.

That's a good question. Maybe it's for the same reason that people don't have a problem with braids but have one with weaves. Aren't they both fake hair being attached to your head? What's the difference?

 

[Poohbear]

I agree.

I do wonder sometimes, though, why there's not a bigger backlash against fake hair. I mean, you are gluing someone else's hair (and that someone is usually Asian, or in some cases, white) to your own scalp in order to capture their standard of beauty. I don't believe there are many black manufacturers of weave, either. I'm not knocking weave, but it seems like chemicals get the brunt of the disdain. I would think they would be almost equal in terms of the "sell out" factor.

Or is that because some naturals use weaves sometimes?

Good point lauren. I wonder that myself sometimes... but don't take the dicussions on relaxers personally. The discussion is about relaxers, not you personally. but I know there is always discussion questioning the mindset of women who do relax their hair...

Anyway, I think the reason why there isn't as much or even more backlash against fake hair is because the issue of wearing fake hair is never brought up or mentioned so much like relaxers. But I do believe fake hair plays a role in the social conditioning aspect of wanting your hair to look like what its not. I say this because not all fake hair is long and straight so people wear fake hair to sport hair that's not theirs.

I remember there was a discussion regarding your over at Nappurality.com. I think someone asked if you are still considered natural if you wear fake hair. Some of the ladies over there said yes because it doesn't alter your hair texture like perms. Well I think differently...even though they may not alter your hair texture, wearing the fake hair is buying into the idea of not embracing your hair as is. If a natural woman wears fake hair constantly, then its almost like they have the same mindset of women who relax their hair for the wrong reasons. They have no right to talk about relaxers. Being natural is about embracing your natural hair like it grows out of your scalp, not someone elses's hair, lol!

 

[Poohbear]

That's a good question. Maybe it's for the same reason that people don't have a problem with braids but have one with weaves. Aren't they both fake hair being attached to your head? What's the difference?

There's really people who have a problem with weaves but not extension braids? Lol! I don't see a difference either...they are both fake hair and not your own real hair.

 

[shiningstar84]

I agree.

I do wonder sometimes, though, why there's not a bigger backlash against fake hair. I mean, you are gluing someone else's hair (and that someone is usually Asian, or in some cases, white) to your own scalp in order to capture their standard of beauty. I don't believe there are many black manufacturers of weave, either. I'm not knocking weave, but it seems like chemicals get the brunt of the disdain. I would think they would be almost equal in terms of the "sell out" factor.

Or is that because some naturals use weaves sometimes?

weaves dont alter the hair texture permanently. like someone else said if a nappy wears a weave All the Time then it would fall into the same category. But if it's just a styling option then no.

 

[so1913]

I agree.

I do wonder sometimes, though, why there's not a bigger backlash against fake hair. I mean, you are gluing someone else's hair (and that someone is usually Asian, or in some cases, white) to your own scalp in order to capture their standard of beauty. I don't believe there are many black manufacturers of weave, either. I'm not knocking weave, but it seems like chemicals get the brunt of the disdain. I would think they would be almost equal in terms of the "sell out" factor.

Or is that because some naturals use weaves sometimes?

You know that's a good question. My theory is it has to do with the "extremeness" (not sure if that's a word, lol) of the idea of going the length of using product that based with a caustic, harsh chemical such as lye just to achieve these "ideal" results, along with the fact that sooooo many of us (much MUCH more than any other race, an overwhelming majority of our female race) practice this "beauty treatment". I think it also has to do with seeing the level of damage it CAN do, but our willingness to "stick with it" and still choose this to be our number one styling method of choice. Thinking about those who have had HORRIBLE experiences, some multiple horrible experiences with relaxers, damage to hair, scalp, or who have never experienced a healthy head of relaxed hair for YEARS... you would think that it would be just as simple not to continue to use them. However, we all know this not the case just by looking around us in the streets, at work, at church, etc. So many damaged heads, people you know who have never had a healthy head of relaxed hair, yet they rather all of that than the alternative of wearing their hair natural, some would never even CONSIDER it. Why is that? You know, when you are a child and you touch the hot stove and get burned, you usually (unless you are hard headed like me, lol) learn your lesson and equate the stove to pain, and you stay away from it. Why isn't that the case with black women and relaxers? Yes, I think the same argument can easily be made regarding conformity and wearing "silky straight" or curly weaves and wigs, but I think what I mentioned above is why "relaxers" remain the main focus and kind of overshadow the other styling methods. Just my thoughts...

 

[Trini"T"]

You know that's a good question. My theory is it has to do with the "extremeness" (not sure if that's a word, lol) of the idea of going the length of using product that based with a caustic, harsh chemical such as lye just to achieve these "ideal" results, along with the fact that sooooo many of us (much MUCH more than any other race, an overwhelming majority of our female race) practice this "beauty treatment". I think it also has to do with seeing the level of damage it CAN do, but our willingness to "stick with it" and still choose this to be our number one styling method of choice. Thinking about those who have had HORRIBLE experiences, some multiple horrible experiences with relaxers, damage to hair, scalp, or who have never experienced a healthy head of relaxed hair for YEARS... you would think that it would be just as simple not to continue to use them. However, we all know this not the case just by looking around us in the streets, at work, at church, etc. So many damaged heads, people you know who have never had a healthy head of relaxed hair, yet they rather all of that than the alternative of wearing their hair natural, some would never even CONSIDER it. Why is that? You know, when you are a child and you touch the hot stove and get burned, you usually (unless you are hard headed like me, lol) learn your lesson and equate the stove to pain, and you stay away from it. Why isn't that the case with black women and relaxers? Yes, I think the same argument can easily be made regarding conformity and wearing "silky straight" or curly weaves and wigs, but I think what I mentioned above is why "relaxers" remain the main focus and kind of overshadow the other styling methods. Just my thoughts...

I dunno ...maybe because they see other black women with healthy relaxed hair so in some way they hold on to the belief that maybe their hair CAN look like that too (they obviously just don't know how to go about it). I'm not really sure about your hot stove analogy (no beef). When a stove is HOT, anyone who touches it will get burned. However, not everyone who gets a relaxer will have damaged hair.

OH OT, I remember you said you had a friend with broken off damaged hair and you suggested she go natural and she was like "Hell Naw" or something like that. Did you direct her to this site for some help?

 

[Southernbella.]

Good point lauren. I wonder that myself sometimes... but don't take the dicussions on relaxers personally. The discussion is about relaxers, not you personally. but I know there is always discussion questioning the mindset of women who do relax their hair...

Anyway, I think the reason why there isn't as much or even more backlash against fake hair is because the issue of wearing fake hair is never brought up or mentioned so much like relaxers. But I do believe fake hair plays a role in the social conditioning aspect of wanting your hair to look like what its not. I say this because not all fake hair is long and straight so people wear fake hair to sport hair that's not theirs.

I remember there was a discussion regarding your over at Nappurality.com. I think someone asked if you are still considered natural if you wear fake hair. Some of the ladies over there said yes because it doesn't alter your hair texture like perms. Well I think differently...even though they may not alter your hair texture, wearing the fake hair is buying into the idea of not embracing your hair as is. If a natural woman wears fake hair constantly, then its almost like they have the same mindset of women who relax their hair for the wrong reasons. They have no right to talk about relaxers. Being natural is about embracing your natural hair like it grows out of your scalp, not someone elses's hair, lol!

I'm not taking anything personally, believe me! I think this is a good discussion.

I think it's interesting that what you said about the discussion on Nappturality. I think natural hair is still natural, whether it's covered in weave or not, but the idea behind the weave is the same as the idea behind relaxing; I don't want to wear my natural hair. I don't care that relaxers are permanent and weaves are not, because I could BC tomorrow as fast as someone can take weave out, and I'd be natural.

I just find it amusing that there are so many different reasons why relaxers are evil, but that same analysis doesn't apply to other hair styling methods, is all.

Yes, I think the same argument can easily be made regarding conformity and wearing "silky straight" or curly weaves and wigs, but I think what I mentioned above is why "relaxers" remain the main focus and kind of overshadow the other styling methods. Just my thoughts...

I can see that side of it. I think the answer to your question of why black women still relax in the face of damage and whatnot is that it's all some of them know. I wouldn't continue to relax if my hair was badly damaged, but like BlackBarbeii said, they may be holding out hope that they can fix it. Some of the ladies here turned their hair around from badly damaged to healthy, and all it took was a little education.

 

[Aubergold]

Do ya'll really think relaxers came about as SOLELY a styling aid? If it was just that, I wonder why suddenly mostly every black women and even black men HAD to have a relaxer. To me, that's deeper than something just being a styling aid. Now, I really really really don't care whether or not someone relaxes their hair. I really don't b/c whether or not they do that isn't gonna make my hair longer or healthier or make my life better or worse. However, I'm left with a bad taste in my mouth when some people try to slightly change the historical meaning of this phenomenon to seemingly justify their actions.
let the stones be thrown, lol.

 

[Mahalialee4]

The absolute truth from my heart!!!!! (swallowing a big ole lump in my throat) My thoughts”: Beauty for the sake of Beauty has taken on a diabolical life of its own. It is about MONEY AND POWER AND PRIVILEGE… and it has nothing to do with you and me except to take our money. We are trying to comform to wordly beauty and it comes with a huge price.
CRe: styling aids!!! relaxers, flat irons, curling irons, natural relaxers, curly perms, thermal styling, weaves, fake braids, arts and crafts hair clip ons....are all products and items used by us because we so desire to be "beautiful", to be "acceptable" to be viewed as "normal" to fit in.....all kinds of SOCIAL REASONS.... Where it not for the Social Pressures that are subliminally and blatantly enacted upon us....we would not even be having this discussion. The pressures to be whiter, blonder, thinner, richer, taller, sexier....are like millstones around our necks and it is killing us spiritually. We do not feel we can exist in this world without bowing down to the Goddess of Beauty, and it has become a form of idolatry.
There is a message out there that is saying to all women no matter what you do or how hard you try...."You will never reach the perfect". Now that is true But NO ONE IS PERFECT!!! White women are also enslaved by this message: That is why you see emaciated, drugged out, spaced out hollow women pretending to have the time of their life and they are fake from head to toe. The blonde hair...there are so many naturally dark haired women trying to be the "Aryan" ideal. One way or another. They are getting cut open...sanded down, scraped out, chiseled, implanted in all parts of their faces, chests and butts, and wearing long blonde fake extensions, removing all their body hair...painful (bikini waxes) imagine paying someone to spread you out and denude your bb....just to be "viewed as normal!!!!! The truth is women today have absolutely NO SELF WORTH NO MATTER HOW MUCH THEY CLAIM THE LATTER. THEY HAVE NO SELF IDENTITY. Their worth is viewed as only part of a mass of what has been decided is the ideal beauty and worthwhile woman that everyone "wants" and "admires" one of the BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE....You have to able to look like a hooker, work a pole like a stripper, look like a real Barbie, and totally hand over your mind and body like a prostitute to a pimp to be “the It girl in this man’s world!” Take a good look ladies at who is deciding whether you are beautiful or not, whether your hair is acceptable or not, who is insisting you need a total makeover, …who is really pulling our strings….you guessed it: The sad little man behind the curtain….our composite WIZARD OF OZ….! A giant industry made up of primarily homosexual designers, Hollywood Queens and Transvestite power brokers in the entertainment, clothes designing industry, Hair and Beauty Salons, fashion columists...Look! Miss Jay is teaching our "beautiful models" how to walk, I guess because straight women are "not bright enough, coordinated enough!" to even walk on their own. This is a fact not a condemnation of gay people..just recognition that they are really who is telling us what we "have to be in order to be". Yah, the ‘Wizard of Oz’ has intimidated us into hating ourselves and being so afraid that we are like the Tin Man and the Lion quivering in our shoes and shelling out money like frightened cult members, handing over our money……and my point is……How much has this pressure affected you? and Whose needs are being met here? bonjour

 

[missann]

There is "backlash" against weave. Everyone knows weave is fake; and plenty (men and women) express disdain over it. It's just that the relaxer is so pervasive in the black community, to condemn it seems outlandish.

 

[so1913]

I dunno ...maybe because they see other black women with healthy relaxed hair so in some way they hold on to the belief that maybe their hair CAN look like that too (they obviously just don't know how to go about it). I'm not really sure about your hot stove analogy (no beef). When a stove is HOT, anyone who touches it will get burned. However, not everyone who gets a relaxer will have damaged hair..

OH OT, I remember you said you had a friend with broken off damaged hair and you suggested she go natural and she was like "Hell Naw" or something like that. Did you direct her to this site for some help?

Hahah, nah, no beef. LOL, that analogy was a stretch I guess, but you kinda see the point I was getting at And this is why I made sure I said SOME woman experience extreme damage, because obviously, there are woman that don't experience it, I didn't when I was relaxed. There have also been woman on the boards for YEARS who no matter how much the followed the rules and cared for their hair, adopted "healthy relaxed hair regimens" and they just never seemed to be able to reach that level of "success" with their relaxed hair. Sometimes it's not as simple as coming here and finding a solution...some people's hair just cannot handle the harsh chemicals, no matter what they do.

Giiiirl, I've told my friend about the site, searching the internet, recommending books. I shared with her all my knowledge on caring for relaxed hair (as I used to be relaxed without damage or breakage, and I maintained mine and other peoples hair very well including the application of relaxers, although I no longer do relaxers on others which has gotten me in some trouble, especially with my mom lol). I've taken her hair shopping, sent her things, given her instructions. I have emailed her excerpts and info that other relaxed ladies have shared on this site such as Sistaslicks WONDERFUL write up on damaged hair, given her regimines to try out, explained how all the heat she used plays a large factor in her damage...all this BEFORE recommending she try the natural route. Her problem is one of two things #1: She won't put in the effort she needs to to restore her hair or #2: her hair is not strong enough to handle chemicals. My problem isn't the relaxer itself, if you are going to have one, for whatever reason, care for it properly so that it looks well cared for and maintained. It's her negative view of herself as if God punished her by giving her "Nappy" hair, which she affectionately refers to as "n****" hair and the jokes she and other peolple makes looking like she's working for the slave master or on a plantation with her natural hair, all spoken in negative context. It's comments, jokes, and the thought processes like this that I have the biggest problem with. I just don't see the humor in it.

 

[MeccaMedinah]

Not to take this thread any farther OT, but I think your post is a very good illustration of why black historical movies don't do as well in theaters, IMO. That's a lot of pain and frustration to process without wanting to lash out at someone. In lieu of being taken through an emotional ringer, most people just stay away and don't really go any deeper than the surface layers of Black history. Even though it's a fictionalized character on screen, we know that that could have been and most likely did happen to a parent, aunt, uncle, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc.

This has been a really interesting thread.

Excellent observation!

Do ya'll really think relaxers came about as SOLELY a styling aid? If it was just that, I wonder why suddenly mostly every black women and even black men HAD to have a relaxer. To me, that's deeper than something just being a styling aid.
However, I'm left with a bad taste in my mouth when some people try to slightly change the historical meaning of this phenomenon to seemingly justify their actions.

You aren't telling anything but the TRUTH!

 

[Poohbear]

I'm not taking anything personally, believe me! I think this is a good discussion.

That's great!

I think it's interesting that what you said about the discussion on Nappturality. I think natural hair is still natural, whether it's covered in weave or not, but the idea behind the weave is the same as the idea behind relaxing; I don't want to wear my natural hair. I don't care that relaxers are permanent and weaves are not, because I could BC tomorrow as fast as someone can take weave out, and I'd be natural.

Exactly, I agree...

I just find it amusing that there are so many different reasons why relaxers are evil, but that same analysis doesn't apply to other hair styling methods, is all.

The same analysis can be applied... it's just not discussed as much....

There is "backlash" against weave. Everyone knows weave is fake; and plenty (men and women) express disdain over it. It's just that the relaxer is so pervasive in the black community, to condemn it seems outlandish.

I agree... I believe what missann said in the above quote sums up your question, lauren.

 

[PaperClip]

Wow! How did we get on the weave tip? Alright.... I caught bits and pieces.... I'll just say this: I don't think there's a backlash against weave. I think there's a backlash against a BAD WEAVE, and rightfully so!!!!

People of all colors and shades and hues and ethnicities have been rocking hair additions of some type for CENTURIES!!!! I mean my goodness, this country's founding fathers wore WHITE WIGS!!!!! Still wondering why they did that!

Anyhoo.... Good weave? Yes. Bad weave? No. And relaxers and weaves are like comparing apples to oranges. Weaves aren't a permanent change unless you get that fusion mess....

 

[sylver2]

erplexed

 

[Poohbear]

erplexed

@ your facial expressions!!!

 

[Southernbella.]

erplexed

I know, I know.

 

[punchinella]

Thanks Cooyah for posting that verification re: the inventor of lye relaxers for hair. I did not want hearsay....this has rationale and reason..good job. My beef was just accepting the "urban myths" because so much kerfluffle is out there about black women trying to be like white women andthis is interesting as well because so many white women relax their hair, including many Jewish, Spanish, Indian, Asian....as well as European etc. You would not believe how kinky some of these people's hair is but they hide it under relaxers. The only ones getting the flack are black women...OF COURSE!!!! Too bad we do not have more black scientists inventing for their own people instead of white people putting out products that hurt our scalps and damage delicate hair of so many of the sisters. But I guess that will come in due time. bonjour

Barry Fletcher has his own line of relaxers, I am going to try it for my next touch-up. I can support a brother in the process (pun intended)
Big HUGS to everyone

 

[Mahalialee4]

bumped up thread

 

[melissa-bee]

Hmmm, the original post is brand new to me. Interesting discussion.

 

[My Friend]

Thanks for sharing.

 

[vainღ♥♡jane]

wow thats horrible. i can't imagine how painful that'd be. ♥

 

[mscocoface]

Totally Off Topic

Have you all gone to Barry's website?

http://www.barryfletcherproducts.com/

He has a book that he is promoting.

Called: Learn A Man Earn A Man.

 

[godsflowerrr]

wow I have never heard of this! This old post is new to me too. ... How TERRIBLE!

 

[lilwomen20010]

slave owners didn't discover this, they stole it from a black man who accidently found out lye str8ened cotton so he tried it on his hair and it str8ened. slave owners did many sick and sadistic things, this just being another. yet another why i *detest* nigg.er

Very true...........................

 

[blaque_syren]

This post is DEEP! lol
I don't doubt that dipping someones head in lye would have been used as a torture device, *brutal* erplexed

But that's not how the perm was originally founded. Just incase anyone needs some info to corroborate what's already been said, that the perm was invented by a black man here it is ---->


http://mardaninc.posterous.com/little-known-black-hair-history-fact-garrett[/URL]

supplementary info
http://www.blackinventor.com/pages/garrettmorgan.html


He was a very talented black inventor and a former slave who's invention
contributed to WWI.

 

[glamazon386]

This post is DEEP! lol
I don't doubt that dipping someones head in lye would have been used as a torture device, *brutal* erplexed

But that's not how the perm was originally founded. Just incase anyone needs some info to corroborate what's already been said, that the perm was invented by a black man here it is ---->


http://mardaninc.posterous.com/little-known-black-hair-history-fact-garrett[/URL]

supplementary info
http://www.blackinventor.com/pages/garrettmorgan.html


He was a very talented black inventor and a former slave who's invention
contributed to WWI.

This was mentioned and clarified earlier in the thread.

 

[Loveygram]

There is a 6 part drama series on youtube. It mentions axle grease as the something used to darken and straighten. The video is out of print but this pretty much all of it.

YouTube - 400 Years Without A Comb (1 of 6)

This was originally a book turned into a movie.

 

[theLovelyStyle]

Where is the [credible] source for this information? Please dont tell me wiki.