OH MY! I did not know this bit of History about Relaxers...

[*Frisky*]

find anything.

This subject does have something to do with the history of relaxers and how they came about...how does it not?

I will have to disagree...Yes, lye is ingredient in relaxers but that was not the intention of the slave owner. I think there intention was to burn the slaves to cause pain, possible baldness and/or other injuries.

 

[Southernbella.]

This subject does have something to do with the history of relaxers and how they came about...how does it not?

Btw, the info came from the link in Enchantmnt's signature. She's a member here at LHCF. I mentioned it in the first page of this thread.

Ok, I'll go back and look. Thanks.

I don't think it has anything to do with relaxers in the same way slave owners branding slaves has nothing to do with tattoos, and in the same way making the slaves sit in tobacco smoke houses has nothing to do with smoking cigarettes. I suppose you could make the connection if you really, really wanted to make a point, but it's a dubious one, to me.

At any rate, I think it's an interesting bit of history (or folklore) that I didn't know before, so thanks for sharing it.

ETA: I found the link to the text you posted, but there is no source for it, so I have to assume it's folklore for now.

 

[Poohbear]

I see we do agree on some things (whatever feeling).

But I just thought I would kindly let you know that I did read your other posts-as a matter of fact all of them. And I still came to my conclusion.

Well that is very strange because I myself do not know if this information is true or not! That's why I don't see how or why you came to the conclusion you came to about me personally. Why judge me because I do not relax my hair? Focus on the info that was posted. Talk about how you feel about the info posted, not me...

 

[MizaniMami]

Well that is very strange because I myself do not know if this information is true or not!That's why I don't see how or why you came to the conclusion you came to about me personally. Why judge me because I do not relax my hair? Focus on the info that was posted. Talk about how you feel about the info posted, not me...[/quote]

I did Poohbear. And I am not judging you based on your choice to be natural. Not once in my post did I say anything eluded to the fact that you are natural-NEVER.

I didn't say you downing relaxed heads. As a matter of fact I find your other posts to be very helpful. Go back and read because I said that "YOUR POST" seem to have subliminal messaging, not you.

 

[Poohbear]

This subject does have something to do with the history of relaxers and how they came about...how does it not?

I will have to disagree...Yes, lye is ingredient in relaxers but that was not the intention of the slave owner. I think there intention was to burn the slaves to cause pain, possible baldness and/or other injuries.

I agree... I know the slave owners didn't intend to straighten their hair...where did I say that they did use it to straighten their hair? They used the lye solution to punish them.

 

[Poohbear]

ETA: I found the link to the text you posted, but there is no source for it, so I have to assume it's folklore for now.

Yeah, I didn't see a source where the information came from either when I first saw it. Maybe that's why a lot of us here has never heard of such a thing happening.

 

[*Frisky*]

I agree... I know the slave owners didn't intend to straighten their hair...where did I say that they did use it to straighten their hair? They used the lye solution to punish them.

You said it in your thread title...you used the word relaxer, which everybody knows staightens the hair. IMO you should have used the word "Lye" in your title and not the word "Relaxer"

 

[secretdiamond]

OH! I was confused as to what the other ladies were saying of how it doesn't relate to relaxers. Now I see what they were saying about subliminal messages, propaganda, etc. The title is misleading, but I don't think the OP realized this or did this intentionally.

 

[Poohbear]

You said it in your thread title...you used the word relaxer, which everybody knows staightens the hair. IMO you should have used the word "Lye" in your title and not the word "Relaxer"

Well I'm sorry for not being so technical and politically correct when I made the title for this thread. I wasn't trying to start anything with women who relax their hair. Think of it this way...it's just relaxer! Don't get so defensive about this product. You're not a relaxer... No one here is a relaxer. So just lighten up a bit.

 

[Poohbear]

OH! I was confused as to what the other ladies were saying of how it doesn't relate to relaxers. Now I see what they were saying about subliminal messages, propaganda, etc. The title is misleading, but I don't think the OP realized this or did this intentionally.

Thank you secretdiamond.
Plus, I even mentioned in my initial post how this info could be the reason why militant nappies have such strong views against relaxers. Did some of you skip over that part? That is talking about the subliminal messages and propaganda that comes out of the info I posted.

I guess I should have been more detailed and elaborate with my initial post.

 

[Poohbear]

Go back and read because I said that "YOUR POST" seem to have subliminal messaging, not you.

yeah I know, but right after you said that, you questioned my sincerity when you 'if you were really being sincere...etc etc'...that's what made me feel like it was a personal attack on me...that's all.

 

[*Frisky*]

Well I'm sorry for not being so technical and politically correct when I made the title for this thread. I wasn't trying to start anything with women who relax their hair. Think of it this way...it's just relaxer! Don't get so defensive about this product. You're not a relaxer... No one here is a relaxer. So just lighten up a bit.

hahahaha.....who me, lighten up. My nickname could be "feather". Honestly I don't get involved in the natural vs relaxer thing....I love my relaxed hair and have no problem with naturals whatsoever. I just came into the thread strictly because of the title because I thought I could gain some knowledge about the history of relaxers but it turned out not to be about relaxers at all until I think it was Cooyah posted the REAL history behind them. I still stand by the fact that your title is what is causing people to think you had other intentions and being that there are so many "battles" about relaxed and natural, you shouldn't be surprised if people feel the way they do.

 

[Cinnabuns]

Wow I have learned allot here. Great post Poohbear.

 

[peacelove]

This subject does have something to do with the history of relaxers and how they came about...how does it not?

I will have to disagree...Yes, lye is ingredient in relaxers but that was not the intention of the slave owner. I think there intention was to burn the slaves to cause pain, possible baldness and/or other injuries.

I agree. Lye is an ingedient in things other than relaxers. So I don't see this as a relaxer history at all, but more propaganda to defend not using relaxers. Not saying that Poobear was trying to push that, but I think the story is.

 

[Poohbear]

hahahaha.....who me, lighten up. My nickname could be "feather". Honestly I don't get involved in the natural vs relaxer thing....I love my relaxed hair and have no problem with naturals whatsoever. I just came into the thread strictly because of the title because I thought I could gain some knowledge about the history of relaxers but it turned out not to be about relaxers at all until I think it was Cooyah posted the REAL history behind them. I still stand by the fact that your title is what is causing people to think you had other intentions and being that there are so many "battles" about relaxed and natural, you shouldn't be surprised if people feel the way they do.

No such thing as real history unless you experienced it for yourself. All history is questionable. Cooyah didn't post a source either so how do you know if that is in fact real? Plus, does all history need a written source for it to be real? I think not. I don't even know what I posted was real history and I didn't even say it was real. I just asked for everyone's thoughts about it. And I am not surprised about people feeling the way they do, because I know that people interpret and read things differently.

 

[Poohbear]

I agree. Lye is an ingedient in things other than relaxers. So I don't see this as a relaxer history at all, but more propaganda to defend not using relaxers. Not saying that Poobear was trying to push that, but I think the story is.

Yes, good way of putting it. It does seem like the info I posted was more of a propaganda against the use of relaxers...especially since almost one has ever heard of it.

I apologize for using relaxers instead of lye in my title since it threw some of you off... Some people use the word lye interchangeably with relaxer and that's what I did in this case. Sorry.

 

[Denim And Leather]

I understand the point you were trying to get across, Poohbear. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You heard that slaveowners dipped their slaves' heads in lye as a punishment. You didn't say it was true, just that what you heard. Maybe using the word "relaxer" in your thread did throw people off, but goodness, I have yet to read a post by you that attacked anyone's hairstyling (i.e. relaxed vs. natural) choices, so seeing the title didn't make me think that you were trying to make this an anti-relaxer thread at all!

You're a sweet girl for sharing this, you were just trying to get some thoughts here regarding what you heard. I believe your intentions were sincere, hon.

 

[Enchantmt]

You heard that slaveowners dipped their slaves' heads in lye as a punishment.

Yeah, she didnt make it up on her own, she was just sharing an interesting tidbit she found. It's on the black hair poetry link thats in my siggy. The poetry is by napptural women and men, so it does have a slant of being "pro-natural". She cited her source earlier. Again its not my page, and the page doesnt list a source. Regardless, we did learn some things. Let's not turn this into another battlefield.

 

[peacelove]

Yes, good way of putting it. It does seem like the info I posted was more of a propaganda against the use of relaxers...especially since almost one has ever heard of it.

I apologize for using relaxers instead of lye in my title since it threw some of you off... Some people use the word lye interchangeably with relaxer and that's what I did in this case. Sorry.

Don't worry about it! I don't really think it is that big of a deal. I understand your point.

 

[sugaplum]

This is so sad.

I ran across the meaning of "Relaxer/Lye" and I saw this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relaxer

 

[so1913]

This is so sad.

I ran across the meaning of "Relaxer" and I saw this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relaxer

Relaxer
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
A relaxer is a special type of lotion or creme usually containing a strong alkaline (although it can also contain perm salt) used in the treatment hair with a type of permanent. This treatment relaxes the curls of the recipient, giving it its name. Mostly associated with African-Americans, people of other ethnicities also occasionally get relaxer treatments using a lotion containing ammonium thioglycate.

The alkaline relaxer was actually discovered in the 19th century when African-Americans realized that washing and combing hair with a lye soap helped to straighten it. Proline, manufacturers of Dark and Lovely, officially "invented" the relaxer in 1971. This relaxer consists of a strong alkaline solution such as lye, potash lye or slaked lime, mixed with petroleum jelly, with mineral oil added for consistency. Various emollifiers and conditioners are added in varying degrees.

A perm relaxer is a thick creme with perm salt or ammonium thioglycate added. The creme is applied to the hair and the creme is left till the maximum time is reached which is between 26-30 mins or till it starts to itch or burn, then its rinsed out and hair is shampooed. A texturizer is an alkaline relaxer with less solution added, to relax the curl slightly. A blowout creme has even less alkaline solution in it and is used by African Americans to create a "soft afro" effect.

One of the reasons that African Americans use relaxers is to make their hair more manageable. African American hair is thick, and the purpose of a relaxer is to straighten and relax the hair. The relaxer is applied to the roots and as the hair grows out, the relaxer grows out (much like with hair dye), and the hair begins to return to its original state. Relaxers should be reapplied about every four to eight weeks. They can be done at home or professionally.

In some African American speech communities, relaxers are called "perms".

Contents
1 African-Americans, racism, and relaxers
2 References
3 See also
4 External links


African-Americans, racism, and relaxers
In the book Color Complex, authors Kathy Russell, et al expound the theory that racism is one of the reasons that relaxers are popular with African Americans. Their theory claims that in the past, African Americans were not lauded for their physical appearance because of the prevailing social conditions of the times, hair texture and skin color being only two of the many aspects of physical appearance for which they were looked down upon. During this time, however, interracial mixture occurred, producing children with varying degrees of "European" and "African" physical traits, such as complexion, eye color, and hair texture. African Americans with more European physical traits were given "preferential" treatment. Often times, African Americans with predominately "white features" were "allowed" to work inside the whites' houses, as opposed to in the hot fields with the other dark-skinned and "nappy-headed" African Americans, creating a subtle and nuanced division between "fairer-skinned", straighter-haired Blacks and darker-skinned, "nappy-headed" Blacks. The theory claims that during this time, a European look became more prestigious and desirable in the minds of African Americans as well, and that by using relaxers, Blacks were able to transform their so-called ugly and nappy Afro textured hair into a hair texture that more closely resembled the hair texture of people of European descent.

It should be noted that many African Americans today choose to relax their hair because of the managability it allows and the varied styles they can achieve.


References
Russel, Wilson, and Hall. "The Color Complex: The Politics of Skin Color Among African Americans". First Anchor Books. NY. November 1993.

I have this information posted in my album and have done some other research. I can see the confusion and argument with the title of this post. I do not think the history of relaxers began with this punishment of slaves, as horrible as it is if there is truth to it. I do believe the use of lye as punishment (if factual) and the use of lye in the "relaxer" marketed towards hair straightening are two independent and unrelated accounts in history (although the "real history" of relaxers isn't all that much to celebrate or defend).

ETA disclaimer: OPINION! I could be completely wrong, I just have yet to come across this info during my own researching to believe otherwise.

 

[Southernbella.]

I have this information posted in my album and have done some other research. I can see the confusion and argument with the title of this post. I do not think the history of relaxers began with this punishment of slaves, as horrible as it is if there is truth to it. I do believe the use of lye as punishment (if factual) and the use of lye in the "relaxer" marketed towards hair straightening are two independent and unrelated accounts in history (although the "real history" of relaxers isn't all that much to celebrate or defend).

OK, I ran across this earlier...
http://www.depilatory.com/ages.html

Apparently, North American women in the 1700's used lye for hair removal purposes. So, if the hair-dipping thing is true, it's kind of ironic. I'm just guessing here, but let's say the slave owners learned about lye and hair removal from their wives, who were using it. Maybe the punishment was making the slaves' hair fall out.

Then, after awhile, black folks being creative and resourceful, the slaves started using the lye (which they already used to make their soap, using ashes from the fireplace) on their hair.

I wonder if that pissed off massa. Here he is trying to invent some new form of torture and punishment, and we turn it around and use it as a styling aid.

I guess there are two ways to look at the issue. If one wanted to use it as propaganda, I can see that. One could also look at it as another example of black people taking scraps and making their own meal out of it.

 

[so1913]

OK, I ran across this earlier...
http://www.depilatory.com/ages.html

Apparently, North American women in the 1700's used lye for hair removal purposes. So, if the hair-dipping thing is true, it's kind of ironic. I'm just guessing here, but let's say the slave owners learned about lye and hair removal from their wives, who were using it. Maybe the punishment was making the slaves' hair fall out.

Then, after awhile, black folks being creative and resourceful, the slaves [started using the lye (which they already used to make their soap, using ashes from the fireplace) on their hair.

I wonder if that pissed off massa. Here he is trying to invent some new form of torture and punishment, and we turn it around and use it as a styling aid.

I guess there are two ways to look at the issue. If one wanted to use it as propaganda, I can see that. One could also look at it as another example of black people taking scraps and making their own meal out of it.

Hmmm...this is a very interesting theory Lauren. It makes you wonder...

 

[Poohbear]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relaxer

African-Americans, racism, and relaxers

In the book Color Complex, authors Kathy Russell, et al expound the theory that racism is one of the reasons that relaxers are popular with African Americans. Their theory claims that in the past, African Americans were not lauded for their physical appearance because of the prevailing social conditions of the times, hair texture and skin color being only two of the many aspects of physical appearance for which they were looked down upon. During this time, however, interracial mixture occurred, producing children with varying degrees of "European" and "African" physical traits, such as complexion, eye color, and hair texture. African Americans with more European physical traits were given "preferential" treatment. Often times, African Americans with predominately "white features" were "allowed" to work inside the whites' houses, as opposed to in the hot fields with the other dark-skinned and "nappy-headed" African Americans, creating a subtle and nuanced division between "fairer-skinned", straighter-haired Blacks and darker-skinned, "nappy-headed" Blacks. The theory claims that during this time, a European look became more prestigious and desirable in the minds of African Americans as well, and that by using relaxers, Blacks were able to transform their so-called ugly and nappy Afro textured hair into a hair texture that more closely resembled the hair texture of people of European descent.

I learned about this information that I bolded above in my African American studies class that I took about 2-3 years ago. It was very interesting to learn about this.

Thank you Denim_and_Leather for understanding me!

 

[Mahalialee4]

To Poohbear: bonjour: To avoid misunderstanding: My remark about the "urban myths"...had nothing to do with disregarding your post or suggesting that you were the creator of an urban myth or that you stated that white people invented relaxers. It has to do with "so many word of mouth" things that are said about "Black people and their hair....which mainly comes from what is written about us and our hair by WHITE PEOPLE...."kinky...hard...unkempt....dirty....and what is said about us on certain "white front" sites: by ignorant white "friends" and "coworkers and clerks"...and total white strangers!"....emphasizing that we will or SHOULD do what ever it takes to get our hair like theirs. Most relaxers created today are made by white manufacturers...but those who sell it try to pass it off as a "black product" that we came up with to "be like white women". So when I hear anything that Black people are being held accountable for historically, I want to see it in print to clarify the source. I certainly do not believe that white people would have invented something during slavery (when they had the utmost contempt for black people and relished seeing them in a humiliated, disheveled state) that would enable BLACKS to be "more presentable or attractive" (according to their racist definitions!!! or "to make their combouts easier". Further, I believe that they did "dipped their heads in lye water" and worse!!!. Further I feel that if black man invented the first "relaxers" for the purpose of styling…that this did not discount the account of the punishments with lye water…. an "oh no the whites didn't do it!!!"…blacks just made it up!” and then whites use this information as a cover up for their behaviours or claim that they actually were doing the slaves a FAVOR by the dipping just like they claim re: their relaxers today….. Wanted to see some proof and rationale behind this black invention: Now Whites are the major suppliers and distributors of relaxers (ALWAYS with a BLACK face on the box!!!!! today claiming to give black women "the hair you have always wanted, soft, flowing and BONE STRAIGHT. (just like US!!!!) I would prefer to see something so relevant to our black women and children as a styling choice, be in the hands of caring black scientists who would remove the downside of these products and stop paying these white owned companies for something they do not deserve..our money while they laugh at us behind our backs!!!! and pretend they don't use relaxers at all. bonjour

 

[PaperClip]

I would prefer to see something so relevant to our black women and children as a styling choice, be in the hands of caring black scientists who would remove the downside of these products and stop paying these white owned companies for something they do not deserve..our money while they laugh at us behind our backs!!!! and pretend they don't use relaxers at all. bonjour

Yessssss..... One has to speculate that the economically empowered counterparts probably have a "safer" method to straighten their hair....

I asked it before and I'll ask it again: would we continue to use those products if we found out that the manufacturer doesn't use said product?

 

[Mahalialee4]

Anyway all the ladies here: Poohbear meant well, and I believe it was in our interest as ladies dedicated to research about our hair and it's care that she made her post. LET'S NOT KILL THE MESSENGER...so to speak. Love ya Poohbear!!!!!!(kisses and hugs) bonjour

 

[Poohbear]

To Poohbear: bonjour: To avoid misunderstanding: My remark about the "urban myths"...had nothing to do with disregarding your post or suggesting that you were the creator of an urban myth or that you stated that white people invented relaxers. It has to do with "so many word of mouth" things that are said about "Black people and their hair....which mainly comes from what is written about us and our hair by WHITE PEOPLE...."kinky...hard...unkempt....dirty....and what is said about us on certain "white front" sites: by ignorant white "friends" and "coworkers and clerks"...and total white strangers!"....emphasizing that we will or SHOULD do what ever it takes to get our hair like theirs. Most relaxers created today are made by white manufacturers...but those who sell it try to pass it off as a "black product" that we came up with to "be like white women". So when I hear anything that Black people are being held accountable for historically, I want to see it in print to clarify the source. I certainly do not believe that white people would have invented something during slavery (when they had the utmost contempt for black people and relished seeing them in a humiliated, disheveled state) that would enable BLACKS to be "more presentable or attractive" (according to their racist definitions!!! or "to make their combouts easier". Further, I believe that they did "dipped their heads in lye water" and worse!!!. Further I feel that if black man invented the first "relaxers" for the purpose of styling…that this did not discount the account of the punishments with lye water…. an "oh no the whites didn't do it!!!"…blacks just made it up!” and then whites use this information as a cover up for their behaviours or claim that they actually were doing the slaves a FAVOR by the dipping just like they claim re: their relaxers today….. Wanted to see some proof and rationale behind this black invention: Now Whites are the major suppliers and distributors of relaxers (ALWAYS with a BLACK face on the box!!!!! today claiming to give black women "the hair you have always wanted, soft, flowing and BONE STRAIGHT. (just like US!!!!) I would prefer to see something so relevant to our black women and children as a styling choice, be in the hands of caring black scientists who would remove the downside of these products and stop paying these white owned companies for something they do not deserve..our money while they laugh at us behind our backs!!!! and pretend they don't use relaxers at all. bonjour

Wow! Thanks for sharing your perspective... ya know, history does involve word of mouth as well as written sources... I believe word of mouth can be just as valid as written sources... you see, people and/or events without written history are considered inferior because we have grown up in a system developed under ideologies...

Now I see two sides to this issue... was it a black person who invented relaxers/lye solution or was it a white person who invented relaxers/lye solution? So many things here have been said in this thread and it shows how our history is full of so many stories... voices to the past and silences of its voices...

For example, it's said that George Washington was our first president of the USA under the U.S. Constitution, yet, there was also information about the first black president of the U.S. named John Hanson under the Articles of Confederation... but guess what? There was another John Hanson who was a white man said to be the first president under the Articles of Confederation... which one is true? Who knows!

History is a story told about the past in present day contextual terms... its a reflection of power and powerlessness....History has an art and a structure.... it's almost like a mythology... an untruth told, not the complete story...

 

[ximenia]

This subject does have something to do with the history of relaxers and how they came about...how does it not?

I will have to disagree...Yes, lye is ingredient in relaxers but that was not the intention of the slave owner. I think there intention was to burn the slaves to cause pain, possible baldness and/or other injuries.

ita. slave owners (owners of enslaved black people) dipped the whole head in lye, including the face. if the lye solution isnt extremely alkaline it wont cause blindness but will burn the heck out of the skin and make the hair fall out. after suffering such a excrutiatingly painful and traumatizing experience, i dont think the blacks were like, hey my hair is straight woohoo.

lye was found later to straighten hair but that discovery didnt come about as a result of this torture method.

and its not folklore or an urban legend. there are books that relate the hundreds of methods whites used to torture women, children and the elderly during slavery. we all know about pouring salt into open wounds and cutting off limbs but a very distrubing one that a lot of us haven't heard is publicly slitting the abdomen of a pregnant black woman and killing her unborn baby. this was done to warn the other enslaved blacks of what would happen if they tried to escape. we also arent aware of the high suicide rate among enslaved black women. no longer able to endure the rape, multilation and general brutality and horror of slavery, many black women drowned themselves. things had gotten so out of hand that whites enacted laws threatening to punish (torture) relatives, including the children, of any black women who who tried to kill herself. check out Spirit Dive: An African American's Journey to Uncover a Sunken Slave Ship's Past by Michael Cottman. he went through all of the records still held in british libraries that detail the torture methods used on and off the slave ships.

Anyway all the ladies here: Poohbear meant well, and I believe it was in our interest as ladies dedicated to research about our hair and it's care that she made her post. LET'S NOT KILL THE MESSENGER...so to speak. Love ya Poohbear!!!!!!(kisses and hugs) bonjour

ita. good post poohbear for at least opening up a discussion.

 

[~*~ShopAholic~*~]

Wow! so much info out there, thanks everyone.
On a personal note I never really liked history especially anything that speaks about horrifying times b4 I existed, I think if I read too much and too far into history during slavery and the hollicost(?sp) I would have probably ended up being a racist, I think I would have learned to hate pple about a past that was never a part of my lifetime. I never even knew there was a history behind a hair product except how it was discovered by a black man. I wonder how many pple would relax or would still be relaxing if relaxers his-story was different?