My Visit with Marvin (EXTREMELY LONG)

daviine

Well-Known Member
When I got to the salon, Marvin’s assistant introduced herself to me and pointed Marvin out to me at the window. She sat me down and began basing my scalp with some pink stuff. Marvin came over and introduced himself and we began to talk about my hair. I told him about how I was concerned with my thinning ends and he agreed that my ends were DEFINITELY thinning. He may have said hair instead of ends but I can’ t remember. He asked me what relaxer I used on my hair (Crème of Nature) and he said he would be using Mizani. He told me my ends were split but I should have asked him to show me. I have looked at my hair strand by strand and I thought split ends were when one strand separates into two—which my hair wasn’t. I never saw him look closely at my ends the way I do but I know when you look at my ends altogether, they do look split because they’re frizzy and I air dry my hair. I wish I had asked him though.

I knew I was going to have to get a trim so I asked if it was going to be a big trim, to which he replied “It’s going to be a good trim” I knew then that he was going to cut off a lot.

He also said that my hair was thinning because of the relaxer being pulled through my hair most likely.

He told me that air-drying is bad for your hair. He said something about your cuticle drying roughly. He then also went on to say that it was bad because your dries wrinkly and makes it more susceptible to breakage. He said that the heat allows relaxed hair to dry smoothly. This was very disturbing to me because I LOVE to air-dry my hair. It allows me to spend more time on conditioning my hair, as I don’t have the time or the inclination to sit under a hot dryer. Later on I decided to try to explain to him that I was a low, low, low maintenance girl, which is why I loved to air dry. His response was that I need a low, low, low hairstyle then. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

When I asked him what number he was going to give me for hair health on the card from 1 to 10, he said 7. He then added that he was being generous only because I still had hair on my head and it wasn’t falling out in his hands.

I was discouraged because I felt like I’ve been working on my hair for years and all I got was a 7. I didn't think anything was really wrong with my hair except for my ends. But I guess he must be right to some degree because my past photos speak for themselves. I wasn’t air-drying then…so maybe…who knows?

But then I started thinking about if I like the way he does my hair, that means I must shell out $100 every two months just because I’m so paranoid I might go to an affordable stylist who jacks my hair up. I seriously am considering going natural—part of it was because I want to AIRDRY my hair! While I AM obsessed with my hair, reality does not allow me to spend all day taking care of it--only thinking of it. If what he says about air drying is true, I have been jacking my hair up for a few years thinking I was doing well.

He applied the relaxer to my hair quickly. It seemed as though just as soon as it was in, it was out. His assistant did the neutralizing and the shampooing and then he trimmed my hair. It was during this time when I tried to talk about my low maintenance lifestyle. The assistant came and roller set my hair and then I was put under the dryer. After I came out, he wrapped my hair and put me back under the dryer again.

As he was doing my hair, he started talking to himself “oh yes, we have to grow this hair. This is going to be my project for 2003.” In my mind, I’m thinking, “Who told you I have money to keep coming here?” Of course I didn't say that. He started talking about how much healthier and shinier my hair looked.

Then he went on to recommend products for me. He told me to use ORS Hair Mayo for protein and the next time use an after-shampoo hot oil treatment (he said L’Oreal has a good one). He pointed out three areas where my hairline was breaking/thinning that I hadn’t noticed. I still haven’t seen the other two but I’ve seen the one area. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif He said that I MUST wrap my hair or roller set it before sleeping and that I must use a silk scarf.

I thick that was all he said. I paid $104 and tipped him $15. I hope it was enough. My boyfriend said that he’d be willing to pay for future touchups (he said for this one as a birthday present) if it made me happy. He’s wanted me to go natural though. Spending all that money makes me want to cut my hair off (only three weeks ago I was considering bankruptcy) and go natural. I just have never had short hair so I decided that I may continue to go for the rest of the year but if I don’t like my hair on my next birthday, I will cut it off. So that is where my 365 challenge comes in. I have to see if I can keep up the relaxed way of life.

I love washing my hair but I don’t think I have the time to do that last hour under the dryer. I work fulltime and I’m working on my master’s. Let’s not forget my five-year old son. So let’s see what 2003 will bring me. I will be buying some wire mesh rollers this weekedn and statrt rollersetting again. I do know that I will have to cut my washings down to 1x a week from 2x a week though.

Wish me luck!

Note: when I was air-drying I wasn’t doing the ponytail method because it dries faster when I leave it out.

Question for Marvin’s other clients? How closely have you been following his product recommendations?
 
Daviine,

I hope you enjoyed the experience at Marvin's salon.

How much of a trim did you get? How did you like your hair once it was done? Were you like WOW or like WHOA? Inquiring minds want to know.
 
Your pictures look good. Atleast he did not do a massive trim. It looks healthy and he did not try to cut it straight across, as most of us do not have hair that grows straight across. So I'll give him a star on that. BUT, I do not agree that air drying is bad. I see what he means about the cuticle drying rough, but I think it's the lesser of two evils. Besides, there are millions of cuticle smoothing products out there.

How are you feeling about everything??? Are you satisfied? That's what is most important.
 
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daviine said:
I forgot to add that he said trims with every touchup are mandatory.



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Daviine

Did he say why they are madantory? Is it just to even it all up as the new growth is relaxed or something. I can understand his point with the airdrying but i also agree with supergirls post about the cuticle smoothing products. If i airdry I get the frizzies but all it takes is a good moisturising and it looks totally different and all the frizzies are eliminated. I think also because Marvin has a good rep on this board and seem to know what he is doing is what is making you question your own methods.

Even after reading everything on this board I read Shamboosie's book and was agreeing on things I knew just were wrong for my hair. I had to snap myself out of that one. My advice to you is follow your judgement. If airdrying works for you then continue, I'm not say be totally ignorant and listen to nothing he has to say but also do listen and follow everything he has to say if it won't work for you. You are the one who works with your hair when you leave that salon. Except for the ends situation I think you've handled your hair very well to get to that length already. Stay encouraged!
 
I didn't ask why he said they are mandatory.

You hit the nail right on the head. I am definitely questioning my methods. However, I plan on rollersetting once a week until the next touchup. I'm not looking forward to it but I have to at least try to see if it makes a difference.

But the biggest thing that I know I must do better on is my diet. My aunt says that diet plays a MAJOR role in your hair and if that is true I would definitely contribute that to my hair's condition more than the air drying. (somehow that sentence doesn't sound right but you know what I mean.)
 
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Later on I decided to try to explain to him that I was a low, low, low maintenance girl, which is why I loved to air dry. His response was that I need a low, low, low hairstyle then.

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/images/graemlins/grin.gif That was funny.
I've never been to Marvin, but from what the women here who see him say, dude sounds like he knows what he's talking about. I wish I lived in NYC--until I see those $100+ prices. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif Good Lord that's a lot of money. But if I found someone as good as this guy sounds, I'd gladly shell it out. Let your boyfriend pay for it like he offered. You're lucky--you have found an educated and competent person that cares about the health of your hair. I think your hair looks very nice in your photos.
The only thing that worries me is his "mandatory trim" rule. Unless your hair is damaged or you're trying to get rid of a no-lye relaxer, once you cut off the split ends, what else is there to cut off every 6-8 weeks?
Maybe if you tied your hair down flat (ponytail method) and then let it dry naturally the cuticle wouldn't be so rough looking...
 
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He told me that air-drying is bad for your hair. He said something about your cuticle drying roughly. He then also went on to say that it was bad because your dries wrinkly and makes it more susceptible to breakage. He said that the heat allows relaxed hair to dry smoothly.

[/ QUOTE ] Oh boy. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif And, you have to trim after every touch-up? I don't think he would be too happy with me. I don't know what to say. I air dry all the time and I don't have any issues with it. My hair has never been as healthy as it is now. What is a girl to do? /images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
Daviine, I think I agree with the majority here. I roller set my hair and let it air dry because I don't have time to sit under the dryer for 1 to 1 1/2 hours. I'll do everything else for hair health, but I generally let it dry on its own. I haven't noticed any adverse effects. I use end papers and setting lotion, which gives a really nice crisp set.

You're right about split ends, my constant battle because of the no lye hair (I hope!). When you look at the hair strand you can see the hair strand split into two or even three separate strands. So you do know what to look for. Perhaps with his seasoned eye he can see things we can't, but split ends are pretty easy to see.

I'm not sure I agree with the 'trim after every relaxer' notion. While it made sense for stylists to do this to me because of the no lye hair, if you didn't have that problem and you have no split ends, why cut for the sake of cutting?

Don't be discouraged by his 7 rating of your hair. I'm not knocking him - from many other posts on this board, he seems to be on the ball and know what he's doing. But only you know where your hair was before and how far you've come. Celebrate your accomplishments while resolving to move forward to correct whatever hair issues need to be corrected.

Were you happy with your hair after the visit? What did you think? Did he cut a lot? And will you go back?

Girl, I think your hair looks good. Obviously, you know how far your hair has come and how far you have to go. Like I said, celebrate your progress.
 
I am glad your hair came out looking great! Daviine. I wish my boyfriend would pay for my hair. For some reason I think I paid more than you. Is it because I had a CUT and not a TRIM? I should have told him to trim my hair into long layers ...lol.

I bought everything he reccomended. The ORS hair mayo is too heavy for my hair. My Domincan stylist had to do a light shampoo for me when I used it. So if you are fine haired beware.

Out of all his hair recs I love the Shampure the most! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Vev...I couldn't remember if he recommended it to you but I did remember you saying that it was too heavy for your hair. I also have fine hair. I plan on trying it becausee it has been on my to REtry list for a while.

I'm wondering how I would be able to tell if it were too heavy on my hair.

Those were the only two products he recommended to me.

Vev---did you get a deep conditioner? If not, I guess you got a cut and not a trim. I was also wondering why you paid that amount--I'm like what did she get that I didn't? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
I know from these posts that Marvin is really good but why do they make you feel soooo....I dunno down??! LOL &lt;shrug&gt; Maybe it's helpful criticism that will help you to evaluate what your doing or not doin.
I noticed that you said you were roller set, sat under the dryer, wrapped and sat under the dryer again. Why did he do that? I totally understand about the air drying but then again I haven't mastered it yet. Tried to CWC method Friday and did a twist out method. My hair looked like I spiral curled with the Caruso rollers except my ends were frizzy. I'm thinking next time to twist in bigger chunks and see how that turns out.
Your hair looks great though. You are on your way to your goals!
 
OMG! When did you go to see Marvin. I was there Friday and Saturday. I had a touch up and he flipped my ends for my birthday. But I slept wrong and nearly died. So I trecked from Brookyn to Manhattan Saturday morning so he could re-do my flips.

I too was very concerned with the trims every touch-up. I asked him about it (I am very annoying when it comes to these things) and he explained hair to me like a pair of jeans. Jeans fray at the bottom with regular wear. If you wash a pair of jeans twice a month for 6 weeks and it is exposed to air, the bottoms will fray. Now imagine hair that is more sensitive than denim. He explained this in lay terms because I would never understand any scientific explanation. I had my 2nd trim and he barely took off 1/9 inch of hair. To me health is more important than length. Trust me I know how you feel about the trims. I am the person that used to literally cry whenever I got trims even when I needed them badly. But so far it seems to be okay and once you get your hair on point you will have very minimal trims. I would actually call it dusting because so little hair is taken off.

After my 1st trim with Marvin, he pointed out two sisters who viewed trims as the anti-Christ. And he told me how their hair has strived and grown even though they get trims every 6 weeks. I have to say I don't contest him on this issue because my hair has made some drastic improvements. Also I have seen his other clients and their hair looks long to me.

Perhaps you felt he was talking down to you because it was your first visit. The first time with a stylist is really scary. The second time around will not be bad at all. I felt the same way too. Then I realized that this person is telling me like it is and not leading me down some fantasy land. I would rather someone give it to me like it is than lie dead in my face. Ask questions! Marvin must think I am a psycho because every 20 min I would ask if my hair was falling out. But I ask and ask away. When I came there he said my hair was damaged and I needed to watch out for my ends. Six weeks later my hair is doing great so that must say something.

He recommended the same products to me and they are great. I also use other ones that I have tried before and like.

I can see where he is going about the air drying thing because I tried it a few times and ended up with clumps of hair on my hands. I am sure you can air dry in moderation. Everything should be done in moderation. Roller set here and there and air dry here and there.

Daviine do not get discouraged about your hair. It is a learning process and no one gets it right the first time. But remember that going natural my not necessarily take away from the costs of hair care. I actually spent more money at salons when my hair was natural. I have coarse and thick 4b hair that was IMPOSSIBLE for me to handle. Because very few salons deal with natural hair, the ones that do are expensive. Because I have to wash my hair at least once a week, I would have to go to the salon and spend $45 every week just so my hair could be washed /images/graemlins/shocked.gif When I decided to try and save $$ and do it on my own, my hair broke off terribly because it was soooooo coarse, rough and dry and I honestly did not have the time to deal with it. That is when I decided to relax. So please take this into consideration.

If you feel bad about taking money from your bf then maybe he could pay half and you could pay the rest. Just don't make any drastic decisions now. Wait. I know it is hard to wait cause we Capricorns just sit and worry worry worry.

Happy Birthday!
 
Thank you Pumpkin. your post put me at ease. If it's just going to be dusting, I definitely don't have a problem with that. I knew he was just giving it to me straight. I was just so shocked about the air drying thing becasue I've been bragging about how I don't use heat on my hair.

My hair is fine so I don't think going natural would be as challenging for me as it was for you but I don't know. However, with fine hair, it might not be as rewarding.

I was there at 10 am until about 1pm. What time were you there?

Oh and I don't feel really bad about spending my boyfriend's money (I hope he doesn't read this!)

Thanks for the birthday wish and thanks for sharing your experience with Marvin.
 
i think 7 out of 10 is excellent. coming from someone like marvin. dont worry about it. it is HIS opinion afterall! Also, maybe airdrying is a major problem when you do not moisturize the hair properly prior to doing it. I think cathy mention this in her book. shampoo, deep condition, squeeze excess water from her or towel blot and then out in a good moisturizer and air dry.

i have had no problems with airdrying. my hair remaons moisturized as long as a moisturizer goes in before the hair dries off.
 
Daviine, I think the 7 out of 10 is pretty good. It is above average health so, your hair must be reasonably healhty. I don't hink he was trying to be mean just honest with you.

Did you notice a difference in your hair with it being dried under the dryer versus air drying?
 
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Vev...I couldn't remember if he recommended it to you but I did remember you saying that it was too heavy for your hair.

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Yes, he did rec this and I don't like it at all. I love kerastase and Cathy Howse's conditioners right now. The Hair mayo left my hair greasy.
 
i have found air drying to make my hair (the ends)look worse than when they came out of braids i had in for 3 months. the ends arent smooth they look frizzy and you have to pile it with tons of products to smooth it down which makes it look limp. rollersetting makes it look smooth, it looks healthy and just a light oil is needed to keep it together. for me it is worth the extra effort. plus my ends thank me. so in my case the marvin theory is correct. others may not have the frizzy end problem and may find some products work fine to smooth it but for me rollersetting always provided a polished finished and it was worth it for me. God bless you all.
 
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he explained hair to me like a pair of jeans. Jeans fray at the bottom with regular wear. If you wash a pair of jeans twice a month for 6 weeks and it is exposed to air, the bottoms will fray.

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pumpkin, thanks for the explanation from Marvin. it kind of makes sense, but what if you wear your hair in a bun for 6 weeks, and it's not exposed to air and wear? i have a problem with doing the same thing to everyone's head regardless of how they care for it. if it's protected most of the time, to me that's trimming for trimming's sake...

daviine, i'm glad you liked the way your hair turned out, but i would personally take some of his advice with a grain of salt. what he says may be true for the average consumer, but i believe we are more savvy than that... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

adrienne
 
Well at least he's not a member of the HCM. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I don't like the trimming every time thing either but at 1/9 of an inch every 12 weeks... I think I could deal. Now his prices... Well that's another story. lol
 
true, ennyaa! at least it's not a ridiculous amount that he trims. LOL @ price issue. honestly, i think a positive salon experience with someone who is not undermining your progress is almost priceless. so try to look at it that way... no, huh?! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

adrienne
 
hahahahahaha!! Girl I do TRY to look at it that way. I really do cuz I love my current salon and I think they do a great job. But I SWEAR I get a little salty when they hand me a $90 bill when the products they use don't amount to $20! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif That's why salons hide their products so you can't see how much they're OVERcharging you.
 
If you airdry the hair as smooth as possible (roll,wrap, ponytail) you won't have that problem. It's only whe you let it dry in a bush or frizzy. So you can still do your airdry just take your time and rollerset or smooth it into a ponytail and put a roller on the end or twist the hair around the base of the poytail.

Leigh
 
Hi Davine,

From what I see your hair is a 10! I just wanted to also tell you that personally I would not accept money from my man to get my hair done. I am saying this with loving kindness whether you disagree or not I feel compelled to tell you this. I once accepted money for my hair care and it ended badly in fact all the relationships that I know of that the man paid for the hair ended badly. It was nice and sweet of him to say "If it makes you happy" This is what a real man is supposed to say. It is a man's natural desire to want to cover his woman from hurts emotional or otherwise. It is our jobs not to abuse this. When Guys get together they talk more than wormen do. If he shares this with his boys can you imagine the comments they may make i.e "that's why I have a independent woman" or "she got you whipped" etc... If he were going to some jazzy babershop that charged 100 dollars for the works would you pay for it. If you say "Naw, baby thanks I appreciate the offer but this is my responsibility". You will have his love and respect. And he will not hesitate to buy you that fur or diamond bracelet you had your eye on. Also what if you have an argument one week will he be as willing to pay for you to get your hair done? the answer maybe yes, but why put yourself in this position. My new man who I am about to marry will go to great lenghts to please me but I don't take him up on every offer. When you have a great guy like this there is a danger of becoming needy. I am not saying that this is the case with you but is is sooo easy to begin to rely on someone that offers to do so much it can be come a habit and soon enough the man thinks "She needs me"/images/graemlins/angeldevil.gif once a man thinks that watch out! Don't set yourself up for the Cleanup woman, I've been there before.
 
Sandra,
I just got around to reading your post.
I've always thought that your hair was simply lovely and still is. Marvin sounds like he knows his stuff and is a respected stylist in the NYC area. That said, I do believe that there is not one solution or method for haircare. Every head is unique and so is it's maintenance. I think you should follow your gut. If you enjoy airdrying, and it's working for you, then you should do it. Sure the cuticle might not dry as smoothly, but there are benefits from air drying also. Roller setting provides smoother hair, but you expose your hair to added heat. Every method has it's pros and cons. Go with what feels and looks right for you.

Quite frankly, you don't sound too comfortable with going natural or wearing your hair short. I don't advise doing either until you are 100% sure of your decision. Same thing with the financial expense of going regularly to a salon that might not be "healthy" for your bank account right now. "Right now" being the opperative word. I have no doubt that in the not so distant future you will be able to afford Marvin or whomever else is the flavor of the month. But if you are not comfortable doing it now, your only going to cause yourself financial and mental stress. Make sure you are very comfortable with your intentions before you act.

I don't know what Marvin sees when he views your hair, but it's beautiful in my book.

Pallas
 
Peacesteem said:
Hi Davine,

From what I see your hair is a 10! I just wanted to also tell you that personally I would not accept money from my man to get my hair done. I am saying this with loving kindness whether you disagree or not I feel compelled to tell you this. I once accepted money for my hair care and it ended badly in fact all the relationships that I know of that the man paid for the hair ended badly. It was nice and sweet of him to say "If it makes you happy" This is what a real man is supposed to say. It is a man's natural desire to want to cover his woman from hurts emotional or otherwise. It is our jobs not to abuse this. When Guys get together they talk more than wormen do. If he shares this with his boys can you imagine the comments they may make i.e "that's why I have a independent woman" or "she got you whipped" etc... If he were going to some jazzy babershop that charged 100 dollars for the works would you pay for it. If you say "Naw, baby thanks I appreciate the offer but this is my responsibility". You will have his love and respect. And he will not hesitate to buy you that fur or diamond bracelet you had your eye on. Also what if you have an argument one week will he be as willing to pay for you to get your hair done? the answer maybe yes, but why put yourself in this position. My new man who I am about to marry will go to great lenghts to please me but I don't take him up on every offer. When you have a great guy like this there is a danger of becoming needy. I am not saying that this is the case with you but is is sooo easy to begin to rely on someone that offers to do so much it can be come a habit and soon enough the man thinks "She needs me"/images/graemlins/angeldevil.gif once a man thinks that watch out! Don't set yourself up for the Cleanup woman, I've been there before.
:huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh:
 
:lachen: :lachen: Yall are wild. She's gone! Now what I want to know is, Daviine, did you go back after this? Is he still doing your hair? Whatever you are doing, your hair looks amazing :up:!
 
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