Lost a friend over hair...

[Austro-Afrikana]

When I first discovered growafrohairlong.com 2 and a half years ago I sent her a link and she looked at it but ignored. When I discovered LHCF I showed her but she didn't seem interested. All the while she had some of the most chewed up short relaxed hair you may have ever seen. Over the next couple of years I tried to give her tips that only her sister seemed interested in, I tried to educate her that black hair can grow etc but it seemed to just all go in one ear and out the other; I kept having to repeat myself and tell her the same things until eventually I stopped talking about hair...until last saturday...

The first thing she said to me was 'so you're never relaxing your hair again' even though she has asked me this every time she has seen me for the past 2 years and I've always said NO!! She started talking about how she NEEDS a relaxer and how 'mixed race and coolie girls usually don't need relaxers and just have hair down to their backsides'. I am mixed race and had short messed up relaxed hair all my life and most mixed girls I see have hair like this. And I have never seen a non asian or locked person with hair to their backside. (Of course I told her this). She always attributes my hair growth to me being mixed even though she has known me all her life and I always had the shortest hair.

A few days later I text her telling her that she was really ignorant and not to mention hair to me until she grows up. She then went on to tell me that she has never said she NEEDED a relaxer (false) and that mixed people blah blah blah...you know the rest. She called me a liar and said that I was big headed and that I think I know everything about hair.

One thing led to another and some hurtful things were said on both parts. Although I wasn't hurt by anything she said because everything she was saying was either completely untrue or things that she dug up from years ago that aren't relevant to my life anymore, I feel she was probably hurt by what I said because it was true...

I wish I never said anything! I just really wanted her to not be ignorant and no matter how hard I tried and what I said, she just didn't take anything in...hair IS a big issue in the black/mixed community but is it really worth losing your cousin over? Why couldn't she just listen to me? Why couldn't she just listen to herself!! Instead of accusing me of making up some of the things she said...

 

[whitedaisez]

oh wow....

 

[Nixx22jam]

im sooooooooooo tired of talking to people about hair. They just want quick fixes and dont wanna put in the work. And when your hair is swanging they wd b like she's always had long hair..... i feel your pain sistren. *hugs*

 

[knt1229]

Is this the "idiot" cousin you posted about in off topic?

If so maybe you all needed to have this confrontation to lay it all out there and get it all out in the open. It's possible this will make your relationship stronger. And if not then it was probably time to move on anyway.

 

[tocktick]

No offence OP but she showed she wasn't at all receptive to your tips very early on and you probably should have quit whilst you were ahead. I know many ladies can attest to having friends and family who simply don't give a damn for hair advice etc. Some people really just don't care. I have a friend not unlike your cousin who didn't want to see the links etc I sent. Around the time I BC'd I was just very excited about all of this new info and thought it would be a good thing to send it. This backfired on me because I quickly found it would irritate my friend, so I just dropped talking about hair all together. Just like your cousin there were times she would bring it up of her own accord in some ignorant way but I'd either just nod and smile or I'd discreetly change the subject.

I think you're right in thinking that your cousin is ignorant because she is. However, I think some people simply just not that receptive to having notions they've carried around for years being shattered. Maybe this is something you'll have to accept about her. Because really if she's not taking your advice who is that (potentially) detrimental to in the end? It's not you. Hopefully, you both can set aside your differences and won't let this affect your relationship for too long.

 

[Blyss_curls]

Sincerely sorry to hear you are angry and hurt, op.

Have you ever heard that saying, "...you can lead a horse to water, but you can not make them drink?"

You can show your friend where the water is, and maybe one day she'll want to drink from this lake. But until then, you aren't responsible for getting her to see how cool and refreshing the water is, here.

When (and if) people are ready for certain information, and only then will they be receptive. Until then....not so much.

Trying to make people see, that which they aren't ready for, feels a lot like....

 

[cutenss]

Well you still have us

 

[SimJam]

thats why I dont try to talk to ppl abt hair. I will tell them abt sites, and if they ask a question I answer, but I dont need more than one brush off to just moooooove right along.


all that being said, Im sorry that u and ur cousin r at odds b/c of this.

 

[jas4xj]

I know you had the best intentions when you were trying to help your friend, but I'm going to come from another perspective and say this....did she ask you for help?

I think sometimes we want to help people so much, but people have to be ready to receive that help. Sometimes due to their own insecurity, they reject YOUR help bc they feel it is condescending instead of genuine. Do I believe that you were 100% condescending? No; do I believe it can be condescending coming from someone who has overcome, yes, if you are insecure with yourself.

Calling her ignorant in my opinion was just plain wrong and hurtful. Is she ignorant, maybe when it comes to hair...but aren't we all to some degree? And aren't we all learning? And how would you take it if someone straight up called you ignorant about some aspect of yourself? It isn't nice. I'm not saying that being fake is okay either. Just telling the truth in a kind way always makes things better.

My approach would have been slightly different in this way, instead of preaching to her (a lot of this parallels what churches do to ppl everyday....you cannot convert anyone...you can only live well and answer people who ask you how you did it). Now, I would have maybe shown her to some of the Youtube videos of people with her hair that is down their backs...I would have related it to her experiences.

Have you heard of hair typing? I'm not asking this to be condescending, just to kinda help you out. I'm assuming she is a 4b....so I would have pointed her to some of the ppl on Youtube like Rusticbeauty (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qw2YSBn3ho&feature=channel), AFRICANEXPORT...(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqdL5SirvMM&playnext=1&videos=ECXlL7PhNsU&feature=recentlik), and sera2544 (http://www.youtube.com/user/sera2544?blend=2&ob=4#p/u/21/g2u0T8CimZ0). These are ladies with 4b hair types with long hair and there are many more there. They also tell how they did it (products, maintenance, etc). I guess you telling her what to do with her hair is like a white person telling a black person what it is like being black. Yes blacks and whites both know what it is like to be human but our individual experiences are different. God bless and I hope you and your friend can come to a place where you can apologize for what you said, and she can apologize for what she said and you can accept each other as you are. That's what friendship is about...loving someone in spite of their flaws and knowing when to be patient when someone has a flaw...bc we all are flawed in some way and want the same courtesy.

 

[Austro-Afrikana]

i did all that. i showed her pictures and videos and all that stuff. i explained hair typing to her and everything. and it isnt like she never ever asked for help because she did. and one day i would think i'm getting through but the next time she would act like i never told her anything and i would have to say it all over again. i never forced it on her. in the first 6 months i was an eager beaver and forcd it on everyone but since then i only ever answer back. i rarely start convos over hair. (sorry 4 bad grammar am on my phone nw)

 

[Austro-Afrikana]

And umm of course i know about hair typing. i have been on my hhj for 27 months!

 

[Leeda.the.Paladin]

I leave hair out of conversations unless they ask me specific questions. I never say "You need to..." or "You should try..." because people get bad attitudes really fast. Hair is a sensitive subject.

 

[JFK]

What is a "coolie" girl?

 

[MsLizziA]

OP i have been there countless times. Just don't say anything about it. It kills me to watch people what their hair but at the end of the day, its still their hair. Nowadays i only give advice if im asked and even then i lead them to the boards because for some reason, a friend or relative will take advice from a complete stranger before they take it from you

 

[Sasha299]

In WI terms its someone with East Indian ancestry - In Jamaican culture it is a derog term.

If you are true friends you can to back to her and say sorry I said things to hurt your feelings and honestly discuss where the angry words came from. In the end, your cousin is a human with human weakness and we must all be understanding of that. If she makes excuses or even brings up hair - just say "Its OK. I do not want to discuss anything to do with hair with you. It causes us both to become angry and say things to hurt each other"

She may be ignorant in this aspect but I am sure that you are ignorant in some area that she is not. It is kind of arrogant to assume that because she does not agree with you or follow your advice that she is ignorant.

Many of my friends do things I don't agree with, they never see that they are making the same mistakes over and over - since they are true friends I am there for them, I let them cry on my shoulders and GENTLY ask them if their course of action will surely lead them to the result they want. In the end I effect change in the negative aspects of my friends lives not because I tell them what to do but I cause them to really think about what they are doing and if it supports their goals.

 

[sheba1]

Calling her ignorant in my opinion was just plain wrong and hurtful. Is she ignorant, maybe when it comes to hair...but aren't we all to some degree? And aren't we all learning? And how would you take it if someone straight up called you ignorant about some aspect of yourself? It isn't nice. I'm not saying that being fake is okay either. Just telling the truth in a kind way always makes things better.

To be fair she didn't call her ignorant until her friend said certain hurtful things like, "you only have long hair because...." kind of stuff when this was obviously a struggle for the OP before she educated herself, as well.

It hurts when you do something that your proud of and then other people down it, for whatever their reasons.

In the end, OP, I say your family and you'll mend fences. If it were me, I'd reach out to squash it. Hair can just be one of those things that the two of you accept as off limits.

 

[LittleLuxe]

I think what people are forgetting is that for a moment or so this stopped being about hair. This was not about the OP's good-natured attempts to help her cousin with her hair and the girl rejecting them. This was not about her being pushy or coming off as condescending.

It was about the point where the OP had success and her cousin reduced it to "Of course you have success, you're not PURE, that's the little added bonus you get for being a mixed baby but please don't try to act like it's more than that or that I should listen to because your little tips, tricks, stories...no sweetie. It's because your Mommy's this and your Daddy's that and that's what YOUR people's hair does."

That was ignorant and it shouldn't be ignored or sugared up.

I feel for you OP, you tried to help and had someone who should love and respect you treat you like a random stranger she saw on the street with the rude comments. I feel like this best covers what happened:

However, I think some people simply just not that receptive to having notions they've carried around for years being shattered.

Your cousin never thought you'd have long healthy hair and it shattered not only a concept she had of you, but of women of color, and likely of herself.

It's hard to accept and say "My hair isn't long not because of the winds, or my genes, or my color, or the flying pixies in the sky. It is MY FAULT my hair isn't long"

Some women say it, accept it, and then go "But you know what? It's not like I KNEW what to do and ignored it. I never knew. But now I have tools and access to information and I CAN have long hair.", and just like you - they do. Others. "Well she's just mixed.", regardless of what they've seen with their own eyes.

That is what makes ignorance so dangerous. It is seeing the truth with your own eyes and still choosing to deny it.

 

[Yoshi3329]

What's a coolie girl?

ETA: Nevermid. Goggle is my friend.

Sorry about your friend op.

 

[Whimsy]

I didn't know yall said coolie over there too! I thought that was a west indian thing!

Sorry about your friend, maybe she'll come around. Maybe when tempers aren't so high you two will have a civil discussion.

I will continue to talk hair to people till I'm blue in the face just because I think it's important people's eyes open to their own personal power and hair is one large way for black women to do so.

 

[jas4xj]

I think what people are forgetting is that for a moment or so this stopped being about hair. This was not about the OP's good-natured attempts to help her cousin with her hair and the girl rejecting them. This was not about her being pushy or coming off as condescending.

It was about the point where the OP had success and her cousin reduced it to "Of course you have success, you're not PURE, that's the little added bonus you get for being a mixed baby but please don't try to act like it's more than that or that I should listen to because your little tips, tricks, stories...no sweetie. It's because your Mommy's this and your Daddy's that and that's what YOUR people's hair does."

That was ignorant and it shouldn't be ignored or sugared up.

I feel for you OP, you tried to help and had someone who should love and respect you treat you like a random stranger she saw on the street with the rude comments. I feel like this best covers what happened:



Your cousin never thought you'd have long healthy hair and it shattered not only a concept she had of you, but of women of color, and likely of herself.

It's hard to accept and say "My hair isn't long not because of the winds, or my genes, or my color, or the flying pixies in the sky. It is MY FAULT my hair isn't long"

Some women say it, accept it, and then go "But you know what? It's not like I KNEW what to do and ignored it. I never knew. But now I have tools and access to information and I CAN have long hair.", and just like you - they do. Others. "Well she's just mixed.", regardless of what they've seen with their own eyes.

That is what makes ignorance so dangerous. It is seeing the truth with your own eyes and still choosing to deny it.

I totally get what you're saying. I guess my point is, just because her friend was wrong doesn't give her a license to be wrong too. How can someone rise above and sink below at the same time? Was it wrong for her friend to degrade her? Totally. But I am coming from this point of view, her friend is hurting her bc she herself is hurting. I have 4b texture and depending on where u are, you do not get the same love that someone with say 3c or less kinky gets. Does that mean that 3c, 2a, etc. hair types don't have their own struggles...not at all. And the sooner that we acknowledge that we are all in the same bucket arguing about something so trivial, the sooner we can get over this nonsense. There has to be a shift in everyone's thinking, including those who call ppl names bc they aren't on their level yet. The difference between ppl who lash out about their hair and ppl who embrace it is confidence. Her friend is not confident in her hair and in turn, lashes out and degrades her so she can feel better about herself.

So can someone with 3c hair tell me what I need to do for my hair...yes. I'm receptive to constructive criticism.
Now, if I was a relaxed 4b and already had a degraded view myself.....quite frankly, no, bc their hair struggles are not my hair struggles and it can be seen as condescending (she thinks she's all that bc......blah blah blah). Now, if another 4b tried to help her with her hair, I do think that the reception would be different. No one seems to see this.....it isn't that her friend doesn't want help....she just doesn't want HER help. And most ppl replying to this post are most likely the typical "helpers" (or future helpers) bc those who truly need help aren't looking at this forum....I can guarantee it.

I'll use an example. If 2 affluent ppl go back to the projects to help out, who do you think would be received better if 1 never grew up there or the other did? Who can relate better to struggling to come up out of poverty than someone who has done it? People listen to who they relate to. Put shortly, ppl are more receptive when they can say in their mind: I see myself in you. A person who has never been addicted to crack cannot testify about what it is like to get off of the pipe and easily help someone else do it........same with natural hair......sad but true in many cases. And calling it ignorant does not do anything but exacerbate the problem instead of addressing and overcoming that said ignorance. It's dismissive and divisive and doesn't help anyone as exhibited by this thread. It does give you something to talk about though .

We can only change ourselves so that's who I'll work on. I don't mean to offend anyone and if I do, I apologize bc that was not my intention. I think differently than most.

@ Austro-Afrikana
No grammar needed...just a forum and how would I have known that you knew what hair typing is? I don't recall you divulging that information and I didn't know how long you've been on LHCF I guess I was ignorant in that regard. Ignorance is everywhere and we just acknowledge our own and overcome.

 

[AnitaTheLengths]

Awww! AA you and your friend will work it out. If you guys have been friends all of your lives, I'm sure this hair debate wont be the death of that relationship. It'll blow over in a day or two. Just agree to disagree and KIM. If she has a desire to start a HHJ she'll eventually come around - if not, you just keep doing you and let her believe that your success comes from ancestry alone.

 

[Austro-Afrikana]

and how would I have known that you knew what hair typing is? I don't recall you divulging that information and I didn't know how long you've been on LHCF I guess I was ignorant in that regard. Ignorance is everywhere and we just acknowledge our own and overcome.

Well in the top right corner of everyone's posts it says their location, where they joined etc...So seeing that I joined in 2008 it should be kind of obvious that I do know about hair typing. Also in my siggie it says 26 months post type 4a...it's cool though

 

[Austro-Afrikana]

I didn't know yall said coolie over there too! I thought that was a west indian thing!

Sorry about your friend, maybe she'll come around. Maybe when tempers aren't so high you two will have a civil discussion.

I will continue to talk hair to people till I'm blue in the face just because I think it's important people's eyes open to their own personal power and hair is one large way for black women to do so.

Lol don't worry it still is. I don't personally use the word as I am not West Indian and don't feel comfortable using it. I was just quoting her...all her friends are West Indian so she just copies whatever they say

 

[EllePixie]

OP, I feel you and that sucks. I stopped talking about hair with my stubborn friends who never want to listen - I even told one friend that I "broke up" with her hair, lol! She was using GBP for every cowash and "moisturizing" her hair with EVOO, and then would NOT listen to me then wondered why her hair was breaking off. Then I have another friend who religiously flat irons her hair, then is all upset because her hair has "grown" 2 inches in a year and 8 months. I'm not going to beg someone to take care of their hair, when they try to talk to me about it I respond with "True" or "Okay."

I hope you guys work it out.

 

[kmn1980]

Some people are best left to their own devices. I feel like hair is one of those things where the proof is in the pudding. You do xyz, and you're still bald. I do a,b,c, and my hair is growing. It speaks for itself.

I have a friend who went natural for about 10 seconds and when her hair wasn't growing 3 inches per week, said that she "needed" a perm again because she doesn't like the way coils look. Only thing is that she was pressing, (yes, gas stove hotcombing) her hair every.single.day. I just told her that she'll get out of her hair what she puts into it. She started back relaxing shortly thereafter but is a tad envious of my hair growth (by the comments she makes). I didn't preach to her. I just let her experience the truth for herself. Maybe she'll come around. Maybe she won't. Oh well.

 

[WhoIAm]

Well in the top right corner of everyone's posts it says their location, where they joined etc...So seeing that I joined in 2008 it should be kind of obvious that I do know about hair typing. Also in my siggie it says 26 months post type 4a...it's cool though

It's not out of the realm of possibilities. There are people that have been here for years and are still confused about hair typing or don't care about it.

 

[MrsHdrLe]

I hte when people have a disagreement and bring up old, irrelevant stuff to prove their point. I hope you and you friend can forgive and FORGET and move on. Just let her come to you about hair from now on (and keep your answers short and sweet).

 

[Lovelylocs]

I agree with the ladies who said that you should not give unwanted advice.

And although it may be ignorant, you really shouldn't be too surprised that many black people believe that mixed race people have an easier time with their hair. JMO.

But, I know you had good intentions. I'm sure some of the things she said were out of line too. Just apologize and try to make amends.

 

[ms.blue]

I have learned that hair is a sensitive subject and I only give advice when asked. I have a friend who is really receptive to the advice but I have another who even though she complains about her hair and her child's hair but wont listen. So I decide I'm not going to say anything to her even when she complains b/c I know it will land on deaf ears.
I hope you and your cousin can work things out since losing a friendship over hair is not worth it.

 

[LittleLuxe]

I totally get what you're saying. I guess my point is, just because her friend was wrong doesn't give her a license to be wrong too. How can someone rise above and sink below at the same time? Was it wrong for her friend to degrade her? Totally. But I am coming from this point of view, her friend is hurting her bc she herself is hurting. I have 4b texture and depending on where u are, you do not get the same love that someone with say 3c or less kinky gets. Does that mean that 3c, 2a, etc. hair types don't have their own struggles...not at all. And the sooner that we acknowledge that we are all in the same bucket arguing about something so trivial, the sooner we can get over this nonsense. There has to be a shift in everyone's thinking, including those who call ppl names bc they aren't on their level yet. The difference between ppl who lash out about their hair and ppl who embrace it is confidence. Her friend is not confident in her hair and in turn, lashes out and degrades her so she can feel better about herself.

So can someone with 3c hair tell me what I need to do for my hair...yes. I'm receptive to constructive criticism.
Now, if I was a relaxed 4b and already had a degraded view myself.....quite frankly, no, bc their hair struggles are not my hair struggles and it can be seen as condescending (she thinks she's all that bc......blah blah blah). Now, if another 4b tried to help her with her hair, I do think that the reception would be different. No one seems to see this.....it isn't that her friend doesn't want help....she just doesn't want HER help. And most ppl replying to this post are most likely the typical "helpers" (or future helpers) bc those who truly need help aren't looking at this forum....I can guarantee it.

I'll use an example. If 2 affluent ppl go back to the projects to help out, who do you think would be received better if 1 never grew up there or the other did? Who can relate better to struggling to come up out of poverty than someone who has done it? People listen to who they relate to. Put shortly, ppl are more receptive when they can say in their mind: I see myself in you. A person who has never been addicted to crack cannot testify about what it is like to get off of the pipe and easily help someone else do it........same with natural hair......sad but true in many cases. And calling it ignorant does not do anything but exacerbate the problem instead of addressing and overcoming that said ignorance. It's dismissive and divisive and doesn't help anyone as exhibited by this thread. It does give you something to talk about though .

We can only change ourselves so that's who I'll work on. I don't mean to offend anyone and if I do, I apologize bc that was not my intention. I think differently than most.

We're looking at this from two different angles. From what I read of the OP's post she had started her hhj and still had her own personal hair issues. She chose to offer help to someone who is not only a friend but a cousin, a family relation. From what she posted she was willingly offering the help but her cousin was not receptive to it, that's fine, but I can't quite let it slip under the rug that when the OP started to make progress (2 years worth of progress) her efforts were simply chalked up to her race. Not in a positive light but in a way to disparage her own efforts and in a way insult her.

"Oh we'd all have long hair down our backs if we were mixed but some of US aren't like YOU"

Not cool. Fact of the matter is it is ignorant to assume a person's accomplishments are because of their race.

It is certainly no better than when I hear little black girls go "Well she's white, you know white people are good at that math stuff" "Girl, black people don't do that", "Well if I was Asian I would be smarter."

Fact of the matter is the OP put in the time and effort to accomplish something and it is insulting and ignorant for her accomplishment to be reduced because her skin, eyes, or hair is different from someone else.