Lost a friend over hair...

[Lovelylocs]

We're looking at this from two different angles. From what I read of the OP's post she had started her hhj and still had her own personal hair issues. She chose to offer help to someone who is not only a friend but a cousin, a family relation. From what she posted she was willingly offering the help but her cousin was not receptive to it, that's fine, but I can't quite let it slip under the rug that when the OP started to make progress (2 years worth of progress) her efforts were simply chalked up to her race. Not in a positive light but in a way to disparage her own efforts and in a way insult her.

"Oh we'd all have long hair down our backs if we were mixed but some of US aren't like YOU"


Not cool. Fact of the matter is it is ignorant to assume a person's accomplishments are because of their race.

It is certainly no better than when I hear little black girls go "Well she's white, you know white people are good at that math stuff" "Girl, black people don't do that", "Well if I was Asian I would be smarter."

Fact of the matter is the OP put in the time and effort to accomplish something and it is insulting and ignorant for her accomplishment to be reduced because her skin, eyes, or hair is different from someone else.

Uhhh I have to disagree with the bolded.

Honestly, before your hair care journey, if an Asian person gave you advice on how to grow your hair, what would you think?

 

[PJaye]

Honestly, I think that you were the primary aggressor in this situation given your relentless badgering with the unsolicited hair advice, which eventually led to her being fed up and blowing a gasket.

When you persistently harass someone about the same topic, it is as good as saying “You’re hair sucks” over and over, and over again. Put yourself in her shoes for a moment and imagine that a good friend has repeatedly told you how much they despise your nasty, mangled, decrepit hair via their offering of good hair tips. How would you feel?

It is always best to let matters rest when someone refuses to acknowledge your capabilities within a certain area, while leaving the door ajar for the possibility of an alliance in the future; you simply cannot force a meeting of the minds.

I’m sorry that things had to escalate to such an extent, and I hope that you are able to salvage your relationship with your friend.

 

[Austro-Afrikana]

I didnt badger or harrass her at all...

 

[yaya24]

I do not think you were in the wrong at all. I know this situation all to well!!

Some of my friends act irritated when I discuss hair.. and act like they don't like me talking about hair... but its my hobby/passion and if someone asks I will share my advise. If they do not ask I do not tell.

People act like the only way you have validation to openly give haircare advise is if you are a beautician/ stylist.

I am not biracial..I have course 4B hair--BUT once my hair grew out friends started saying that its because I have a 'long hair gene'

Keep doing you-- Hopefully you ladies work it out.

 

[PJaye]

I didnt badger or harrass her at all...

You mentioned that you would repeatedly offer her hair advice or tips, which can be viewed as badgering if the person remains unresponsive and/or unreceptive.

 

[southerncitygirl]

What is a "coolie" girl?

its a degatory term for being mixed particulary with "asian indian". my carribean co-workers use this term.

 

[Vashti]

I can understand you frustration OP. People often will make excuses for why they can't either break out of an inferiority complex mindset "My hair will always be ugly no matter what" or why they don't want to put in the effort to do something different. I've heard the whole "Well she has long hair because she's mixed" and other nonsense. Or the "Well you must have Native American Indian or white ancestry in you, that's why your hair grows" nonsense. Most Black Americans have Indian and white ancestry so big deal!

Certain people at work see my hair growing out and I'm definitely not mixed so the excuse to me when they ask me about my hair is "Well I don't have natural waves like you do." Huh! How would they know what they have if they keep asking for my advice and then dismiss what I say? This is why I don't mention hair or say anything about it unless people broach the subject with me first. You can't give advice until people are really ready to listen and when they are they will find the information themselves, either through you or by some other means. That's what I had to do. Otherwise just keep moving.

 

[lilsparkle825]

This all sounds like the relationship between my cousin and I. I feel like all LHCFers, or at least 90% of us, want to go on a mountaintop and shout out what we've learned when we first join. We tell any black female with hair how they can grow it longer/faster, and of course most of them look at us like we're crazy, especially because we are still in that "newbie" phase and our hair may look like theirs. As time goes by, some of these people become more receptive to our advice, but others come up with even more excuses why their hair can't do what ours does. For example, I am a 3c/4a and I am helping my mom (4a) and my sister (4b) grow their hair too. One day, I realized that not only would this benefit them, but my other family members would see their progress and not be able to blame it on them being light-skinned or mixed or whatever, like they do with me. I was especially excited by my sister's growth, since she was always, ALWAYS the one in the family with "bad" hair -- the nappiest of nappy, according to my hateful cousins.

One day earlier this year, my cousin came to my house complaining about her bald spots and paper-thin relaxed EL/NL hair. She had recently seen a picture of her hair from high school, and even though it was only SL, she has not been that length since and was on the verge of tears when she saw how "long" her hair was. I did NOT take the bait, as I knew better by now. When I didn't immediately force my haircare tips on her, she kept lamenting, obviously looking for me to say something. Now this is the same girl who told me back in 2008 when I discovered LHCF that not only was my hair GOING to grow because I am light skinned, but also the one who said "Ahh, I'm too lazy/don't have time for ALL THAT STUFF you guys do to your hair" . A few hours later, I didn't say anything to her....just slid my laptop to her and showed her this video by chinablk. Someone upthread was spot-on when they said people are more receptive to the advice from strangers than they are from us, people they actually know. In any event, I figured it would work since chinablk is relaxed and I know my cousin will NEVER go natural, or at least won't while she is dating that pea-brained excuse for a man who shudders at the first SIGHT of a kink or "nap". It did, actually -- she ran around the house showing the video to everyone, and I saw a glimmer of hope. It lasted for all of five minutes....I guess because then her brain switched back on and the doubt flooded her head. All of a sudden it was "nahhh, that wouldn't work for me. She must have hair like YOURS." I took this opportunity to point to my sister, who was conveniently on the couch combing her hair, and asked how come those techniques worked for her. My cousin says "Ahh, well I don't have HER kind of hair either." Of course I laugh as hard as I can, and ask her what has happened to the "bad" hair my sister had three years ago to make it able to magically grow to BSL now. She couldn't answer that one.

Well clearly I went off on a tangent, but I say all that to say some people don't want to be saved. I see multiple sides of this argument, namely the fact that maybe you were a little pushy given the way you word your OP and the fact that she may just be one of those people who won't take the life jacket you throw them when they are drowning. The good news is although my cousin won't be LHCF feature of the month anytime soon, at least I got her to stretch her relaxers 8-12 weeks instead of running to the shop every 4 weeks. You win some, you lose some. I hope you guys fix your relationship.

 

[lovelexi]

When I first joined LHCF I went around the house spreading my hair knowledge. Luckily my family is very receptive. You can't help those that don't want to be helped. Let her be. Some people just don't take advice or criticism well. I think in time things can be patched up.

 

[Lovelylocs]

Maybe I am odd because when people think my hair is just naturally beautiful, I take it as a compliment. However, it is frustrating when I say something about hair and they ignore me because they think I'm a 3b or 2b. That's why I stopped talking about it though. :-(

 

[Tiye]

When I first discovered growafrohairlong.com 2 and a half years ago I sent her a link and she looked at it but ignored. When I discovered LHCF I showed her but she didn't seem interested. All the while she had some of the most chewed up short relaxed hair you may have ever seen. Over the next couple of years I tried to give her tips that only her sister seemed interested in, I tried to educate her that black hair can grow etc but it seemed to just all go in one ear and out the other; I kept having to repeat myself and tell her the same things until eventually I stopped talking about hair...until last saturday...

The first thing she said to me was 'so you're never relaxing your hair again' even though she has asked me this every time she has seen me for the past 2 years and I've always said NO!! She started talking about how she NEEDS a relaxer and how 'mixed race and coolie girls usually don't need relaxers and just have hair down to their backsides'. I am mixed race and had short messed up relaxed hair all my life and most mixed girls I see have hair like this. And I have never seen a non asian or locked person with hair to their backside. (Of course I told her this). She always attributes my hair growth to me being mixed even though she has known me all her life and I always had the shortest hair.

A few days later I text her telling her that she was really ignorant and not to mention hair to me until she grows up. She then went on to tell me that she has never said she NEEDED a relaxer (false) and that mixed people blah blah blah...you know the rest. She called me a liar and said that I was big headed and that I think I know everything about hair.

One thing led to another and some hurtful things were said on both parts. Although I wasn't hurt by anything she said because everything she was saying was either completely untrue or things that she dug up from years ago that aren't relevant to my life anymore, I feel she was probably hurt by what I said because it was true...

I wish I never said anything! I just really wanted her to not be ignorant and no matter how hard I tried and what I said, she just didn't take anything in...hair IS a big issue in the black/mixed community but is it really worth losing your cousin over? Why couldn't she just listen to me? Why couldn't she just listen to herself!! Instead of accusing me of making up some of the things she said...

Y'all should not be fighting over hair. Hair boards are not for everyone. Not everyone has the time or interest in chat boards and/or if they did they can't imagine focusing this closely on hair. I know plenty of people like this. If they ask for hair advice or mention a problem I'll give it - but I don't hard sell them on my point of view or lhcf (or any hair board). If your friend likes using relaxer, or believes that she needs them then respect that and leave it at that. If she asks when you're relaxing again you can say you're not doing that right now (or anymore) without getting into a fight over it. Don't sacrifice a friendship over hair - it's not all that deep.

 

[sweetlaughter]

some people just aren't ready for the information yet. there's a thread somewhere on here about the steps we all take to a HHJ. maybe your advice wasn't the tipping point but it sure is a step in the right direction for her and her hair regardless of whether she chooses to relax or go natural.

 

[silenttullip]

It's rough when people don't wanna listen about hair. I've been through that with my little sis but after a while she wised up and joined some of the hair boards and listens sometimes to my suggestions.
Some people have to burn their hands a lot to realize the stove is hot. She will have to jack her hair up a lot to realize she should take your tips.
As for your part in the whole situation... I kinda think ur right for wishing you two wouldn't have said anything about it. I don't think you'd just pop up a few days later randomly calling your "friend" ignorant so there had to be more to that text. Usually after a few days disagreements between friends die and are forgotten. Did she pop back up days later saying something else to make you respond with that text or was the issue just on your mind so you choose days later to express yourself?

 

[QueenFee]

Hello all I'm a newbie and I just wanted to let the op know that I feel her...I have friends who have never had more than four or five inches of hair their whole life and keep it short so they can tell folk they "cut it"....they say the same about me being mixed is the reason I have hair....always tell me about how their hair never grows and how they have scalp issues but never take advice on how to fix the prob but think they can give me hair tips when they are bald...Bottom line,"hair talk" is like politics, to keep the peace its best to never talk about it...

 

[Lovelylocs]

Right, we've all been there. That's how we know. Discuss hair on LHCF. Smile and accept compliments about your hair in real life. If someone who admires your hair asks for advice, give some. Even then, be careful!

 

[ActionActress]

I think what people are forgetting is that for a moment or so this stopped being about hair. This was not about the OP's good-natured attempts to help her cousin with her hair and the girl rejecting them. This was not about her being pushy or coming off as condescending.

It was about the point where the OP had success and her cousin reduced it to "Of course you have success, you're not PURE, that's the little added bonus you get for being a mixed baby but please don't try to act like it's more than that or that I should listen to because your little tips, tricks, stories...no sweetie. It's because your Mommy's this and your Daddy's that and that's what YOUR people's hair does."

That was ignorant and it shouldn't be ignored or sugared up.

I feel for you OP, you tried to help and had someone who should love and respect you treat you like a random stranger she saw on the street with the rude comments. I feel like this best covers what happened:



Your cousin never thought you'd have long healthy hair and it shattered not only a concept she had of you, but of women of color, and likely of herself.

It's hard to accept and say "My hair isn't long not because of the winds, or my genes, or my color, or the flying pixies in the sky. It is MY FAULT my hair isn't long"

Some women say it, accept it, and then go "But you know what? It's not like I KNEW what to do and ignored it. I never knew. But now I have tools and access to information and I CAN have long hair.", and just like you - they do. Others. "Well she's just mixed.", regardless of what they've seen with their own eyes.

That is what makes ignorance so dangerous. It is seeing the truth with your own eyes and still choosing to deny it.

I think this is the crux, the hinge of the matter. You are this and what YOUR hair does is normal for YOU. I am this and my hair looks short and unhealthy because I am that. (Never mind most of us are mixed anyway.)

This is a form of negative thinking and self defeat.

AA

 

[Lovelylocs]

I think this is the crux, the hinge of the matter. You are this and what YOUR hair does is normal for YOU. I am this and my hair looks short and unhealthy because I am that. (Never mind most of us are mixed anyway.)

This is a form of negative thinking and self defeat.

AA

What if you applied this same logic to white people and wrinkles?

You are black and that you don't have as many wrinkles is normal for YOU. I am white and my skin is dry wrinkly and old looking because I am that.

Still a form of negative thinking and self-defeat?

Or, someone who comes from a long line of people who age well vs someone who doesn't. Still a form of negative thinking and self-defeat?

Maybe. But, it may also have some truth to it.

 

[Janet']

OP,

I am sorry that this happened to you. I have never talked to people about hair partly because I have always had a decent amount of hair and people look at that as condescending (even family members and close friends)...Ultimately, if/when she sees your progress and really wants your help, she'll ask...Until then, be easy...I know this is easier said than done, though.

 

[krissyprissy]

It sounds to me like she may be jealous. Most people lash out when they are jealous and dont' want to hear it because it can make you sound like a know-it-all.

 

[Lute]

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

That goes for everything and including haircare...

 

[Mizz Diamonds]

I feel you OP , even when you a fully African like myself both parents are Nigerian. My friend said it's because I have "tough nigerian hair" you know like in Lil Wayne's song so that is why my hair doesn't break a lot and that is why it wouldn't work for her and that girl is quater white, light skinned and had APL-BSL when she was younger but too many relaxer applications in a year caused major breakage.

 

[Austro-Afrikana]

I feel that i definitely wasnt pushy on the hair care aspect...the main thing i always tried to push onto her was that she didnt need a relaxer and that beinh mixed doesnt automatically gift you with long hair. and even then i only spoke of it when she would complain about her hair being too picky or something..
thanks for all the support and constructive comments ladies

 

[sheba1]

Uhhh I have to disagree with the bolded.

Honestly, before your hair care journey, if an Asian person gave you advice on how to grow your hair, what would you think?

I don't feel this comparison is even remotely close.

The OP isn't an asian stranger off the street with floor length hair. She and the young lady are family and have known each other all their lives. The OP had the same hair struggles her cousin had before she chose another path. But now that OP is having success with her hair her being mixed is a valid excuse? Puhleeze

And just because her cousin was feeling defensive and insecure, why is that cause to express blatantly hurtful and bigoted remarks? I believe all racist remarks stand on a foundation of insecurities but doesn't make a single one of them warranted.

 

[LittleLuxe]

I don't feel this comparison is even remotely close.

The OP isn't an asian stranger off the street with floor length hair. She and the young lady are family and have known each other all their lives. The OP had the same hair struggles her cousin had before she chose another path. But now that OP is having success with her hair her being mixed is a valid excuse? Puhleeze

And just because her cousin was feeling defensive and insecure, why is that cause to express blatantly hurtful and bigoted remarks? I believe all racist remarks stand on a foundation of insecurities but doesn't make a single one of them warranted.

THANK YOU, lol. I know if I accomplished something and someone went "Well it's because you're African you know that's what your people's - fill in the blank - does" I would be so hurt and so angry. The OP had the same hair issues, put in the work, and got a positive result. It's not okay that her cousin dissed her that way.

What if you applied this same logic to white people and wrinkles?

You are black and that you don't have as many wrinkles is normal for YOU. I am white and my skin is dry wrinkly and old looking because I am that.

Still a form of negative thinking and self-defeat?

Or, someone who comes from a long line of people who age well vs someone who doesn't. Still a form of negative thinking and self-defeat?

Maybe. But, it may also have some truth to it.

Or we could say two women of different races with the same facial issues and one manages to repair some of her wrinkles and aging issues and then trys to instruct the other who goes "No it's not because you used sunscreen and moisturizer and eye cream it's because you're black". Wouldn't that be more accurate?

Uhhh I have to disagree with the bolded.

Honestly, before your hair care journey, if an Asian person gave you advice on how to grow your hair, what would you think?

Yeah the comparison doesn't work for me considering this is the OP and her cousin, but if you want to go there if I had an Asian friend who had terrible hair and over the course of 2 yrs started to grow healthy, strong, and long...yeah I WOULD listen to her, lol. I would be open to it because that's something I want.

I think this is the crux, the hinge of the matter. You are this and what YOUR hair does is normal for YOU. I am this and my hair looks short and unhealthy because I am that. (Never mind most of us are mixed anyway.)

This is a form of negative thinking and self defeat.

AA

I think when you refuse help that could improve something because you refuse to believe you are capable of it - absolutely.

 

[Mdmommy99]

I almost always stay out of these but against my better judgment I am going to step into this as devil's advocate.

Your friend had already made up in her mind what was right and wrong about hair before you started giving her advice. She didn't ask for your advice. You gave it to her. She didn't want it. You should have left it at that.

Was she wrong for saying that your hair growth was only due to your mixed race? Yes. But how many people think the same thing and how many of us here would still think that if it wasn't because of hair boards? I think the majority of people outside of these boards believe that types 2s and 3s are the only ones who can grow long hair. We know that she is wrong, but she has already made up her mind about what is right, and it's not up to you to change it.

It's kind of like when you posted this thread. You had already made up in your mind that you were right and your friend was wrong. Anytime someone posted something to suggest that you might have contributed to the argument, you justified your actions, because you already believed you were right. You made up your mind and nothing anyone else said was going to change it.

I personally believe that you should apologize for coming on too strong about her hair and let her know why what she said upset you and not let this ruin your friendship.

 

[Lovelylocs]

I almost always stay out of these but against my better judgment I am going to step into this as devil's advocate.

Your friend had already made up in her mind what was right and wrong about hair before you started giving her advice. She didn't ask for your advice. You gave it to her. She didn't want it. You should have left it at that.

Was she wrong for saying that your hair growth was only due to your mixed race? Yes. But how many people think the same thing and how many of us here would still think that if it wasn't because of hair boards? I think the majority of people outside of these boards believe that types 2s and 3s are the only ones who can grow long hair. We know that she is wrong, but she has already made up her mind about what is right, and it's not up to you to change it.

It's kind of like when you posted this thread. You had already made up in your mind that you were right and your friend was wrong. Anytime someone posted something to suggest that you might have contributed to the argument, you justified your actions, because you already believed you were right. You made up your mind and nothing anyone else said was going to change it.

Exactly! I agree.

 

[Lovelylocs]

I don't feel this comparison is even remotely close.

The OP isn't an asian stranger off the street with floor length hair. She and the young lady are family and have known each other all their lives. The OP had the same hair struggles her cousin had before she chose another path. But now that OP is having success with her hair her being mixed is a valid excuse? Puhleeze

And just because her cousin was feeling defensive and insecure, why is that cause to express blatantly hurtful and bigoted remarks? I believe all racist remarks stand on a foundation of insecurities but doesn't make a single one of them warranted.

Some people feel that being half black and half something else is different than having two black parents. I don't exactly feel that way, but some do. Race is not always cut and dry.

The OP did say that her cousin is "an idiot" and doesn't remember things. Maybe her cousin doesn't remember that she used to have messed up hair.

 

[Lovelylocs]

Yeah the comparison doesn't work for me considering this is the OP and her cousin, but if you want to go there if I had an Asian friend who had terrible hair and over the course of 2 yrs started to grow healthy, strong, and long...yeah I WOULD listen to her, lol. I would be open to it because that's something I want.

Yes, we both would, but LHCFers are unique. I think that most black people wouldn't be as open. But, that's just my guess.

 

[lilsparkle825]

As for your part in the whole situation... I kinda think ur right for wishing you two wouldn't have said anything about it. I don't think you'd just pop up a few days later randomly calling your "friend" ignorant so there had to be more to that text. Usually after a few days disagreements between friends die and are forgotten. Did she pop back up days later saying something else to make you respond with that text or was the issue just on your mind so you choose days later to express yourself?

This is exactly what I was thinking, but my post was already hella long

 

[Austro-Afrikana]

I almost always stay out of these but against my better judgment I am going to step into this as devil's advocate.

Your friend had already made up in her mind what was right and wrong about hair before you started giving her advice. She didn't ask for your advice. You gave it to her. She didn't want it. You should have left it at that.

Was she wrong for saying that your hair growth was only due to your mixed race? Yes. But how many people think the same thing and how many of us here would still think that if it wasn't because of hair boards? I think the majority of people outside of these boards believe that types 2s and 3s are the only ones who can grow long hair. We know that she is wrong, but she has already made up her mind about what is right, and it's not up to you to change it.

It's kind of like when you posted this thread. You had already made up in your mind that you were right and your friend was wrong. Anytime someone posted something to suggest that you might have contributed to the argument, you justified your actions, because you already believed you were right. You made up your mind and nothing anyone else said was going to change it.

I personally believe that you should apologize for coming on too strong about her hair and let her know why what she said upset you and not let this ruin your friendship.

I'm not even a type 2 or 3...I'm a 4a with 4b edges...

And I didn't come on too strong about haircare. As I have repeatedly said, I only reacted to her when she told me she NEEDED a relaxer and the whole thing of mixed race girls...I never even started the conversation.