Jealous of A Cancer Survivor's Hair Growth: Growth vs Texture

[btrflyrose]

I am with the OP on this rant!

Non-black people do as much if not more damage to their hair as well do. Heat, not sleeping on satin, junk food.

This is like the magic question that this board tries to avoid, but the OP is right, is a cause for a rant. Our hair ain't that dry and brittle, if it was, it wouldn't stay on our head!

I'm gonna have to agree with this, especially after vacationing with some white folks at the beach and seeing how horribly they treat their hair! One friend had a pixie cut in June and in August it had grown to chin length and this is after having dyed it. And at the beach EVERY FREAKING DAY mind you, she'd wash, blowdry AND flat iron!

And she would just go to sleep with nothing on her hair.

And here all the black girls were washing, air drying, oiling, wrapping at night...and she was looking at us like we were crazy!

It's annoying!!

 

[Xerxes]

Thanks life is good!!!!!!!!!!!!

Congratulations on your good health.

 

[Xerxes]

I'm gonna have to agree with this, especially after vacationing with some white folks at the beach and seeing how horribly they treat their hair! One friend had a pixie cut in June and in August it had grown to chin length and this is after having dyed it. And at the beach EVERY FREAKING DAY mind you, she'd wash, blowdry AND flat iron!

And she would just go to sleep with nothing on her hair.

And here all the black girls were washing, air drying, oiling, wrapping at night...and she was looking at us like we were crazy!

It's annoying!!

Girl, your white friend sounds like some of mine! LOL

They treat their hair like step-children and it still appears healthy for a long while and continues to grow at record speed. LOL

 

[Xerxes]

True. True.
but I think that most of us were referring to the fact of how fast it grew and how gentics plays a major part. Not the fact that she has hair again. That would just be...really really mean-spirited

I didnt get that vibe from the OP. Just the frustration most of us on here feel when we are trying to reach our goals. Many times we get discouraged. I honestly cant say I'd be jealous. More of amazed of how fast it grew and happy that she was healthy again. I do understand her point of saying that genitics is more of a factor than we are willing to admit on here.

thats Just how I feel.



BTW..wow i just turned my siggies back on today mwedzi your hair grewww. Geeze now that I'm seeing them again I missed a whole lotta updates!

Thanks for attempting to clear that up.

I am not jealous over my friend's hair, I'm just jealous of her hair growth. I have several cancer survivor friends and family members and none of the black ones showed the same growth as my nonBlack friend. And I don't want anyone to think that this topic is only relevant to cancer survivor's hair growth.

The point of this thread is to discuss genetics vs nurture for hair growth, my friend, the cancer survivor, was just a segue to discuss the underlying issue, since she is but one woman out of thousands that I have seen with impressive growth.

In all honesty, now that I'm over my jealous fit from yesterday, I can honestly say that I am really not jealous of any one else's hair (i.e. I would not want my friend's hair at all). I would prefer to keep my own 4b hair and just have a heck of alot more of it, but that will come in time. Normally, I don't care about hair growth because I'm usually in braids, but now that I'm giving my hair a 3 month break, I see how long it really takes for my hair to grow an inch and that's a bit demoralizing.

 

[btrflyrose]

Girl, your white friend sounds like some of mine! LOL

They treat their hair like step-children and it still appears healthy for a long while and continues to grow at record speed. LOL

Right, her hair has to be made of lead. Because if I did that to my hair it would be broken and jaggered all the way up to my ears!

From what I can tell of some of my friends, it's not just that it grows fast, they retain growth inspite of how they treat it.

My hair grows slowly and I have to baby the ends so they don't break or split.

 

[Lady Esquire]

I do think hair growth is based on genetics (and how your genetics respond to the environment ie "nurture"), but not race.

I agree. I know a lot of black women who grow hair like weeds. And I have heard of nonblacks complaining about slow hair growth. Now, perhaps, nonblacks have lower maintenance hair and therefore never really have to think about this stuff nearly as much, as a whole compaired to blacks.

 

[jupitermoon]

2. Hair texture and hair growth (and/or retention) are indeed tied to one another. Trying to ignore this very obvious fact seems strange to me. On any given day how many Type 1-3 APLs do you see compared to Type 4bs?

I see nonBW and Type 1-3 women (of all races) with APL or longer hair all day long, it is not a challenge for them. They don't need an LHCF to help them learn to grow their hair.

Hair grows naturally and it is ludicrous to assume that we have to teach ourselves how to do something we can't control. All we can manipulate is retention (it's just fun right now for me to nag about growth rate). lol

I truly believe that Type 1s have stronger hair strands than Type 4bs and low hair types (Types 1-3, perhaps 4a too for laughs) also have quicker growth rates. I believe 4B hair is drier and more fragile than other types and this affects retention, compared to lower hair types that tend to have thicker, coarser strands of hair.

I'm still not sure if there is a relationship beteeen growth rate and hair type but there is definitely a relationship between hair type and retention. Straight coarse hair is the least prone to damage, breakage, and splits. Asians/Indians tend to have this hair type. Fine tightly curled hair is the most prone to damage.

Not only is 4b hair very tightly colied, it also tends to be very dry and has a tendency to tangle. I think it's hard to grow 4b hair long in a natural loose state. Some natural 4bs have posted on here that their hair actually forms dreds when left loose to air dry no matter how much detangling is done. Those with long natural 4b hair tend to keep it in braids or twists or other protective styles most of the time. They hardly wear it out. Also, I've noticed that 4b hair tends to shrink alot. I've seen waist length 4b hair shrink all the way up to ear length. Extreme shrinkage=more tangles=more breakage= loss of length.

4b hair can grow long but it's much harder to do. I agree with most of what you're saying.

 

[jupitermoon]

Im in NYC as well...

1) A large majority of black women i see have some form off fake hair in their heads (weave ponytails, full blown obvious weaves, extension braids and kinky twists, tracks)

2) The women i see with real hair have chewed up, short, see-through straight hair. It is rare that is see a black woman with lengthy, healthy, moisturized straight hair.

Unpopular Opinion ahead...

3) Like someone else in the thread stated...i don't care what anybody on this board says...hair growth rate is 99% genetic and 1% nurture, LOL.

I always chuckle at the indian women threads on this board and how folks oooohh and aahhh over their hair/hair growth rates and try to speculate on which techniques/combinations of oils/ayurvedic practices these women use to get long hair. I'm like, it is largely just due to genetics.

I agree. I also chuckle at all of the hair growth aids that some use. Unless you are severely malnurished or very ill, your hair growth rate is what it is.

Since hair growth rate can't be changed, I think it's best to focus on things that can be done to retain length.

 

[Ronnieaj]

Ok, since I don't have time to read everyone's post, I'll address this one because I disagree with it the most! LOL

1. I do think that blacks did evolve to generally have a different hair texture and growth rate due to the climate that we resided in. It's not a foolproof argument, but who needs WSL hair in the Serengeti???

2. Hair texture and hair growth (and/or retention) are indeed tied to one another. Trying to ignore this very obvious fact seems strange to me. On any given day how many Type 1-3 APLs do you see compared to Type 4bs?

I see nonBW and Type 1-3 women (of all races) with APL or longer hair all day long, it is not a challenge for them. They don't need an LHCF to help them learn to grow their hair.

Hair grows naturally and it is ludicrous to assume that we have to teach ourselves how to do something we can't control. All we can manipulate is retention (it's just fun right now for me to nag about growth rate). lol

If so many BW over the course of all history have had notably shorter hair than their nonBlack counterparts, then that points to a genetic predisposition for shorter hair.
I truly believe that Type 1s have stronger hair strands than Type 4bs and low hair types (Types 1-3, perhaps 4a too for laughs) also have quicker growth rates. I believe 4B hair is drier and more fragile than other types and this affects retention, compared to lower hair types that tend to have thicker, coarser strands of hair.


3. And the sample size is immense, I've seen this trend of quicker growing hair and better retention for all of my life (meaning every woman I have ever met).

4. And as a final bit of fun, I found an article that describes a hair texture gene that was identified last year. A mutation in this gene (P2RY5) supposedly leads to hair loss and "wooly" hair. When I looked at the pics, I thought the kids were just mixed, but I did find it strange that they didn't try to show that this "wooly" hair type is reminiscent of a common African hair type.

Link: http://www.springerlink.com/content/d86406r5568w8u20/fulltext.pdf

At least now with one gene identified, a group could look to see if 4bs have that mutation or another one and then perhaps unethical, rich women with 4b hair could some day in the future get gene therapy instead of perms or design babies that lack the mutation. lol

Okay, you just conflated multiple issues into one, which makes me wonder what you're really complaining about. If you're talking about how quickly hair grows, there is little, if any, scientific evidence of a large sample size, not "what our eyes see," to definitively make the determination that 4b hair grows any more slowly than any other hair type. We can't even agree on what hair is and is not 4b, 4cz, c-napp, whatever, so I know someone hasn't picked out 4b+ and done a study on them. All anyone on this board has is anecdotal evidence.

If you're talking about retention, I think you're absolutely right that kinkier textures have a much harder time retaining the length that they've grown. Now, whether you believe that lack of retention means our hair is meant to grow less quickly, is up to you. But I wholeheartedly agree with tocktick that what happens to one's strands has ZERO to do with how quickly hair will emanate from the scalp.

I do believe that genetics has a strong role in how quickly hair grows, as well as how long the hair will last before shedding. It's all individual and while race may play a factor in determining genetic makeup, I do not think it is the largest factor. That's JMO.

We all have our crosses to bear. For a lot of black women, growing long hair is a struggle because of our tendencies to lose what length we gain. That's my struggle; I'm the only black person in my firm, and I'm the only one with hair issues. On the flip side, I haven't exercised consistently in four years, I pretty much eat whatever I want, and I'm a size 2. Everyone else in my office struggles with their weight, I struggle with my hair. Pick your burden...

 

[loolalooh]

I believe hair growth and retention is 70% genetics 30% nuture/care.

I completely agree.

 

[Neith]

Just a question...

If you don't believe that type 4 or 4b grows as fast as other hair types and doesn't reach very long lengths very often despite good care, why are you on a long hair care forum?

 

[Jas123]

no words... just check out this thread

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=395316

 

[jetbeauty09]

I'm gonna have to agree with this, especially after vacationing with some white folks at the beach and seeing how horribly they treat their hair! One friend had a pixie cut in June and in August it had grown to chin length and this is after having dyed it. And at the beach EVERY FREAKING DAY mind you, she'd wash, blowdry AND flat iron!

And she would just go to sleep with nothing on her hair.

And here all the black girls were washing, air drying, oiling, wrapping at night...and she was looking at us like we were crazy!

It's annoying!!

ALRIGHT, NOW YOU DON MADE ME MAD!!!!!!!!!!!! *HULK ANGRY*

That don't make no sense! Goodness. I don't care what anyone says, there is something genetically different that makes their hair grow & stay on their head! Everyone needs to fess up to seeing this day in and day out and wondering, how in the world did her hair grow so fast?!>?!?!

 

[jetbeauty09]

Just a question...

If you don't believe that type 4 or 4b grows as fast as other hair types and doesn't reach very long lengths very often (jetbeauty writes: I disagree with the very often part but I'll still bite) despite good care, why are you on a long hair care forum?

I still want it! Even if I'm genetically disposed to have slower growing hair and hair that wants to break off if I look at it wrong, doesn't mean it can't happen. I just know if myself and a white girl started on the same hair journey to long hair, she'd beat me! I love my texture but we have to work extra hard to get what they are granted. Its the same way our skin is genetically (as a people) more taunt and ages more gracifully..ier (?!?!?) then theirs. It doesn't mean that they can't ever have smoothier skin as a old foggie, it just takes more work to get what comes natural to us.

 

[SND411]

I still want it! Even if I'm genetically disposed to have slower growing hair and hair that wants to break off if I look at it wrong, doesn't mean it can't happen. I just know if myself and a white girl started on the same hair journey to long hair, she'd beat me! I love my texture but we have to work extra hard to get what they are granted. Its the same way our skin is genetically (as a people) more taunt and ages more gracifully..ier (?!?!?) then theirs. It doesn't mean that they can't ever have smoothier skin as a old foggie, it just takes more work to get what comes natural to us.

Thats an interesting take on the whole hair growth vs aging gracefully.

 

[Foxglove]

Just a question...

If you don't believe that type 4 or 4b grows as fast as other hair types and doesn't reach very long lengths very often despite good care, why are you on a long hair care forum?

It doesn't mean we can't get long hair, it will just take longer
I have yet to see anybody on the hairboards grow their hair from SL to WL every year, cut it off, and repeat on a consistent basis and like I mentioned earlier. Not saying every asian/indian/south american person has hair that grows that fast but I've personally seen a lot more of them achieve this than I have seen us achieve even here on LHCF. Even the people who grow one inch a month don't do that

 

[tocktick]

ALRIGHT, NOW YOU DON MADE ME MAD!!!!!!!!!!!! *HULK ANGRY*

That don't make no sense! Goodness. I don't care what anyone says, there is something genetically different that makes their hair grow & stay on their head! Everyone needs to fess up to seeing this day in and day out and wondering, how in the world did her hair grow so fast?!>?!?!

Whilst it may be unfair that Becky, Maria et al can wash with chlorine and sleep on rocks yet still retain, that does not mean their hair grows from their scalp faster. Imo, the fact their hair can withstand abuse says more about the strength of their strands than growth rate. It is to be expected as they have more cuticle layers than us and we can argue a looser texture makes it easier to retain. On the other hand, our hair is more fragile, plus coupled with the lack of hair knowledge that plagues the black community our hair breaks off at a certain point and many don't know how to stop it. It's proven our hair needs more care due to the fragility of our stands (especially once chemically treated). Meanwhile, there is no strong scientific evidence to suggest our hair grows (from our scalp) significantly slower.

The fact that many of us see women without hair over SL on a daily basis is likely to say more about their lack of hair care knowledge than growth rate. Yet when we know better, we do better as evidenced time and time again on this board (and youtube, BHM, nappturality, fotki etc). Honestly, I'm quite surprised people here (where we supposedly know so much about hair care and see many progress from damaged hair) don't believe this and use women they see on the streets to prove their points.

 

[FlawedBeauty]

i used to think growth was related to genetics and mine would never grow cuz i had "black" hair, that is until i learned to start taking care of it and now its seems to grow faster than some of the yt chicks i know lol

 

[PerplexingComplex]

Growth rate & retention are two different things. When you try to use them interchangeably threads like this pop up. Growth rate deals with the amount of hair that comes from your head. Retention is how much of that you keep. This whole thread keeps stating the obvious. Looser textures can do more with their hair without worrying about it breaking off. Kinkier textures are more prone to damage. That has nothing to do with growth rate. If black people had such slow growth rates, the average black woman wouldn't be getting her new growth touched up every 6-8 weeks and black men would have difficulties growing their hair too. Black men keep it simple, so they're able to retain their length.

 

[Daughter]

A white co-worker of mine pops hair growth vitamin pills and often complains about her hair, so I wouldn't say that "race" is a big factor.

 

[Sugar]

Whilst it may be unfair that Becky, Maria et al can wash with chlorine and sleep on rocks yet still retain, that does not mean their hair grows from their scalp faster. Imo, the fact their hair can withstand abuse says more about the strength of their strands than growth rate. It is to be expected as they have more cuticle layers than us and we can argue a looser texture makes it easier to retain. On the other hand, our hair is more fragile, plus coupled with the lack of hair knowledge that plagues the black community our hair breaks off at a certain point and many don't know how to stop it. It's proven our hair needs more care due to the fragility of our stands (especially once chemically treated). Meanwhile, there is no strong scientific evidence to suggest our hair grows (from our scalp) significantly slower.

The fact that many of us see women without hair over SL on a daily basis is likely to say more about their lack of hair care knowledge than growth rate. Yet when we know better, we do better as evidenced time and time again on this board (and youtube, BHM, nappturality, fotki etc). Honestly, I'm quite surprised people here (where we supposedly know so much about hair care and see many progress from damaged hair) don't believe this and use women they see on the streets to prove their points.

@ the bolded

 

[Sugar]

A little while ago I saw a commercial for a special on the National Geographic channel (Nat Geo) tomorrow night. Its called the Human Family Tree and it comes on at 9pm. In the commercial it says that on the genetic level we are all 99.9% the same. I will definitely be tuning in.

 

[chiconya]

I believe it's genetics and proper care but more to do with genetics.

 

[CurlyMoo]

So what exactly do these women do to their hair? Do they use heat? How often do they wash their hair? How often do they trim? What is their diet like? What kind of products are they using? And what are you doing to your hair that's different than what they do? You said they don't do anything to their hair, maybe that's the key to retaining length. I always use men as an example of how they grow hair faster than women do. They don't use heat or style their hair nearly as often as we do hence they retain more.

I think genetics do play a part in the health of hair and growth rate to a certain extent. I think with the intake of vitamins and nutrients, good hair care, low manipulation and exercise your hair growth rate can be increased. I am one that believes that Black folks do not thrive on the European diet. Our bodies do not process certain foods like others. And certain foods are better for us than others.

 

[MissYocairis]

I don't think our hair grows slower. Its just breaking off at a faster rate due to different factors (dryness, manipulation, chemicals, bad habits etc). My hair grows about .5-1 inch a month sometimes more, and I'm in the 4b catagory (natural). My sister (also type 4 hair) gets almost an inch a month without trying.

exactly....plus, natural or relaxed, our hair is at a disadvantage because of the wave/curl pattern of it....we aren't getting the sebum that travels so quickly down the hair shaft of other ethnicities. All that oil running down their hair has made it pliable and stronger, IMO. I'm not even sure if the curl pattern of our hair in the hair shaft is conducive to producing a lot of sebum like straighter hair does.

 

[Sugar]

exactly....plus, natural or relaxed, our hair is at a disadvantage because of the wave/curl pattern of it....we aren't getting the sebum that travels so quickly down the hair shaft of other ethnicities. All that oil running down their hair has made it pliable and stronger, IMO. I'm not even sure if the curl pattern of our hair in the hair shaft is conducive to producing a lot of sebum like straighter hair does.

Somewhere I saw a study that says we produce the most oil...but due to the curl pattern it just doesn't travel down the shaft as well. I wonder if I still have that study in my computer somewhere...

 

[Honey01]

One of my DH friends had cancer a few years ago. At one point, all of her hair was gone. I believes she cut it at some point rather than deal with shedding. I swear, at our wedding she had a thick neck length bob. Our wedding was probably only a year after she was cleared. A few months later I saw her, it was most LHCFer's describe as shoulder length. I have not seen her in awhile, but I bet is back to BSL which is about where she was before being stricken with cancer.

She is AA with thick hair. It actually looks like it somewhat course in nature. I believe she is relaxed with what I would guess is 4a hair. I wasn't jealous but definitely in awe. I believe her texture that is more resilient allows her to retain her growth. I have fine hair which is easily prone to breakage.

 

[Crissi]

Even if it is 99% genetics, genetics are irrelevant is you are frying, dying and burning your hair. And lets be honest most black women do this. Everyone is quick to talk about other races, but more time they DO NOT relax and may i add a large percentage of black women do. I'm not knocking relaxers, its just that most relax whether or not their hair can handle it and whether or not they know how to look after it. Then we are too heat, track and glue friendly. If we just left our hair alone for a bit we would see some legnth and health. Lets stop looking at other races, because yes they do nothing..... and even if they did dye and fry they are not dying frying and relaxing. Generally speaking other races also wash and condition their hair more. Whilst water comes in lik the cryptonite (sp) for black women - so our hair isn't receiving any moisture (and dax doesn't count lets be for real most of us outside of LHCF do not understand the concept of moisture)

but we do too much. And then lets look at our men, what do they do. Nothing. And they have hair, alot of it. Wow it looks like a pattern . Most black women go to war with their hair - won't accept it for what it is/ or isn't. Then act suprised when they don't see much of it.

I'm sorry if i offended anyone as i said i am talking about black women in general - not the LHCF. I sincerely beleive nurture/retention is more important (eben though i do believe that everyone regardless of race has the average growth rate of 0.5 - as thats what i see.....). Even if the average black woman only had a growth rate of 3 inches a year if your retained it 5 yrs later it would still be 15 inches. Thats still like APL/BSL (sepending on how tall/short they are). And i don't see much of that in the real world. So it much be that good ol retention factor..... I'm sure i've digressed immensely. My bad.....

Crissi, x

 

[femmemuscle]

i've done the big chop in 2008, sometime in October. Due to follice damage, my hair didn't start really coming back until February of this year.

I think, it has something to do with how we take care of our hair, plus eating habits, liquid intake and supplementation.

yet, my Mexican Coworker chopped off her Butt length hair in april, to Chin Length. It's August - and she already has her hair back in a bun - when she lets it down - it's Shoulder length.... ALREADY!!!

 

[otegwu]

Great thread.!

Honestly I agree with the OP, be it Race or Genetics, its obvious that most Non-blacks dont have to work hard to have long hair. they can practically do nothing, and a year later be longer then I could be in that same time. This is just the way it is, it has been, and it will be. Theres no need to sweat, it its not a competition.

Mentioned before that women in Africa grow their hair fast and long...you will find that the differences between countries within Africa and hair are vast, even between tribes with in the same country.

East Africans such as Somalians, Eritreans, often(not all) have 2c-3c hair growing extremely long with ease and very little effort. other area's in central Africa, you often find that their hair is often 4z tightly coiled hair that often is not long but beautiful in its own way.

Considering history, it was much easier for genetic mixing on the outer countries of Africa to occur, East Africans having a big Arab genetic history due to its closeness to the Middle East, where as central Africa being densely forested or even desert like in places, more difficult to get to, there was less of this Genetic mixing to deliver theses different attributes.

Sorry to digress...

but yep, 'Race & Genetics' practically the same thing IMO

So this is really a big deciding on who gets the hair growth/length trophy...but we are all winners if we want to be