Jealous of A Cancer Survivor's Hair Growth: Growth vs Texture

[GabbanaGirl]

Growing up in a salon, I have seen 4Z heads with hair much longer than MBL. It is possible. I think the key is growth retention.

A lot of people unfortunately aren't educated on the proper way to care for black hair, so that can hinder retention. I have known, and have many friends that:

Overlap relaxer - Have rough/harsh detangling methods - Get their hair braided too tight - Abuse Heat - Use styling products such as harsh gels that dry their hair out - Overcondition hair, causing to be limp, lifeless, and susceptible to breakage - Not condition their hair enough - Bunning to tight causing thinning around the nape and edges - and the list goes on.

How many 1A'S do you see that do all of those things to their hair? If they did, their hair would look just like some of the people you are referring to. IMO It is the things we do to our hair that determine our growth retention, NOT our genetics.

Those are some of the things that hinder hair growth, that have nothing to do with genetics. That's why I appreciate this hair board, there are many women who come here whom have never had "long" hair, who leave with a wealth of knowledge, and "long" hair to boot.

 

[aquajoyice]

I'm not sure what determines how fast your hair will grow. I dont think it's ethnicity becuase all across the board you can find people that can grow their hair fast. And I remember everytime I had my hair at ear length it would be back at shoulder in no time at all. But after that was another story. My think is stop comparing yourself to others and appreciate you for you. I dont worry about how fast my hair is going to grow but the quality in which it's in. I would rather have healthy short hair than unhealthy waist length. I have a goal and I know that my hair will get there sooner or later. And when it does it will be healthy.

 

[Tene]

Growing up in a salon, I have seen 4Z heads with hair much longer than MBL. It is possible. I think the key is growth retention.

A lot of people unfortunately aren't educated on the proper way to care for black hair, so that can hinder retention. I have known, and have many friends that:

Overlap relaxer - Have rough/harsh detangling methods - Get their hair braided too tight - Abuse Heat - Use styling products such as harsh gels that dry their hair out - Overcondition hair, causing to be limp, lifeless, and susceptible to breakage - Not condition their hair enough - Bunning to tight causing thinning around the nape and edges - and the list goes on.

How many 1A'S do you see that do all of those things to their hair? If they did, their hair would look just like some of the people you are referring to. IMO It is the things we do to our hair that determine our growth retention, NOT our genetics.

Those are some of the things that hinder hair growth, that have nothing to do with genetics. That's why I appreciate this hair board, there are many women who come here whom have never had "long" hair, who leave with a wealth of knowledge, and "long" hair to boot.

I agree with this.

 

[missnappylady]

I would say it's a combination of genetics and nurturing. When I say genetics, I am not saying race. There people in all races that have difficulty/ease growing long hair.

 

[Junebug D]

I agree that the issue is retention, growth varies from individual to individual. Like this woman I work with, she is black, 4bish and her hair grows SUPER-FAST, yet her hair has never been beyond her shoulders. She dyed her hair a lighter color about 3 months ago, and believe me, she has about 4 inches of jet black new growth. Yet her hair is now even shorter than it was those 3 months ago. And no, she is anything but the picture of health.

Me and another (black) coworker were discussing her hair one day, how she neglects it, and the coworker commented on how thick it was. And I commented on how FAST it grows, and she looked at me like I had said something dumb. I explained I was looking at how much new growth she had and not how long it was, and the coworker still didn't seem to comprehend.

On first glance, anyone would look at her head and say her hair doesn't grow or it grows slowly, yet from seeing the things she does and doesn't do to it, I know that's not true at all. Whereas Becky might retain all or nearly all. From my observation, they are not nearly as obsessed with neatness and having every strand even in place, having even hair, or trimming their ends.

--------
Now I do think genetics would be an interesting thing to study, especially with African Americans. I do think some things get coded into our genetic histories; like how much of our current characteristics evolved in response to adaptations by our ancestors who lived in slavery, and who were systematically malnourished and abused? Has that taken some physical toll that is still being expressed in our generation, despite improved conditions? I do think that would be interesting; and would definitely be a factor to take into consideration if someone can actually prove that Black hair grows slower than every other race. But I have yet to see any cold hard proof that we have a growth issue rather than a retention issue.

 

[jennboo]

I didn't know you were talking about in real life.

Yeah, real life is not like lhcf sadly. Don't get me wrong, I do see black people with long hair daily, but it's not as common as short hair.

I just actually did a poll.. in my own crazy little head the other day on my way to work.. I saw 1 black woman with nice MBL hair out of may 75 to 80 women in NYC. Most of the hair I saw was chewed up and spit out and damaged or just in short cuts, maybe by choice but I dont believe that.. Black women ( who have not found LHCF) begin to think they can not grow their hair long and its just impossible.. And most believe its because of genetics.. IMO

Im in NYC as well...

1) A large majority of black women i see have some form off fake hair in their heads (weave ponytails, full blown obvious weaves, extension braids and kinky twists, tracks)

2) The women i see with real hair have chewed up, short, see-through straight hair. It is rare that is see a black woman with lengthy, healthy, moisturized straight hair.

Unpopular Opinion ahead...

3) Like someone else in the thread stated...i don't care what anybody on this board says...hair growth rate is 99% genetic and 1% nurture, LOL.

I always chuckle at the indian women threads on this board and how folks oooohh and aahhh over their hair/hair growth rates and try to speculate on which techniques/combinations of oils/ayurvedic practices these women use to get long hair. I'm like, it is largely just due to genetics.

 

[JayAnn0513]

There are some really great points being made in this thread.

 

[naturalmanenyc]

My BFF has a super fast growth rate. She has been MBL & chopped and then back to MBL in a year. She relaxes every 8 weeks like clockwork so I do not know her true texture. When we were in kindergarten I would have said she was 4a.

 

[naturalmanenyc]

I'm in NYC as well and today DH & I saw maybe 5 heads of healthy hair from Manhattan to Brooklyn (between 11:30 a.m. - 12:30 p.m.) and the rest were wigs, phony ponytails, weaves (mostly blonde braids) and damaged relaxed hair. We saw at least 100 black women on the streets around that time.

Although I completely know that it's possible, I rarely see Black women with real MBL hair in NYC. MY BFF had MBL hair but she is in VA. I have 2 other friends who live in Harlem - one is 3c natural and she is about BSL when flat ironed & the other is relaxed and about BSL. They both trim/cut often but their hair grows back quickly.

I saw 2 natural, healthy heads today (probably APL if pulled straight) but both looked like they were in need of some moisture.

I didn't know you were talking about in real life.

Yeah, real life is not like lhcf sadly. Don't get me wrong, I do see black people with long hair daily, but it's not as common as short hair.

I just actually did a poll.. in my own crazy little head the other day on my way to work.. I saw 1 black woman with nice MBL hair out of may 75 to 80 women in NYC. Most of the hair I saw was chewed up and spit out and damaged or just in short cuts, maybe by choice but I dont believe that.. Black women ( who have not found LHCF) begin to think they can not grow their hair long and its just impossible.. And most believe its because of genetics.. IMO

Im in NYC as well...

1) A large majority of black women i see have some form off fake hair in their heads (weave ponytails, full blown obvious weaves, extension braids and kinky twists, tracks)

2) The women i see with real hair have chewed up, short, see-through straight hair. It is rare that is see a black woman with lengthy, healthy, moisturized straight hair.

Unpopular Opinion ahead...

3) Like someone else in the thread stated...i don't care what anybody on this board says...hair growth rate is 99% genetic and 1% nurture, LOL.

I always chuckle at the indian women threads on this board and how folks oooohh and aahhh over their hair/hair growth rates and try to speculate on which techniques/combinations of oils/ayurvedic practices these women use to get long hair. I'm like, it is largely just due to genetics.

 

[DaPPeR]

I agree with OP.......

 

[theAlist]

When my mom was recovering from cancer back in the mid 90's my whole family was amazed at how fast her hair grew back. She went from no hair at all to shoulder length in 12 months or less. I was also amazed that her hair grew back a totally different texture. She was 4a/3c before and she is now 3c/3b.

Yea, my aunts hair grew back a different texture as well

 

[LongCurlz]

I think hair growth is genetics, but not based solely on race only, some people can be a 4b and have a fast growth rate because of genetics, I have seen first hand some 4a/b's on this board and others who's hair seemingly grows very fast. Having fast hair growth is not all about what race you are or what your mixed with, some people just have faster hair growth than others regardless of texture.

 

[LoveLiLi]

I'm 4a/3c and my youngest sister is 3a/3b. Our hair grows much slower than our mother's and my middle sister's hair - they are both 4b. My middle sister is a good mix of 4a and 4b and my mother is 4b/4c (if there is such a thing).

We have always noticed that although their hair is more coarse, it grows at an amazing rate. When I was younger I cut my hair into a bob; it was ~chin length. My mom cut her hair in a Halle Berry style - very short. She told me she'd be shoulder length before me. She was right .

By the time my bob grew out to sl, hers was there too and her hair growth raced right past mine.

ETA: I believe gorgeous hair is a combo of nature and nurture. What good is hair that grows at lightening speed if I relax+color+flat iron every day? The damage will still leave me with short broken off hair. Also, my hair grew slowly, but I usually kept apl to bsl hair because I took good care of it.

 

[2themax]

I believe hair growth and retention is 70% genetics 30% nuture/care.

Devil's advocate here I have to disagree and believe it's the opposite - at least in my experience:

30% Genetics
70% Nurture

 

[GabbanaGirl]

I honestly think the hair care industry does not cater to ensuring black women know the proper way to take care of their hair. Most of the products marketed towards black women are loaded full of mineral oils, and other no-no's in order to get a "quick fix" for hair that is labeled "problematic" -

I think part of the problem is the attitude towards black hair in general is so jacked up, that the mainstream companies aren't pushing to make better products for our hair. But then as long as blue magic (no offense to anyone who uses it ), and the likes are flying off the shelves, why would they?

Natural hair is frowned upon, and straight, sleek hair is being forced as the cultural norm. From the invention of the pressing comb, to the relaxer, to the jehri curl, and the texturizer, everything is about NOT embracing your natural hair, yet changing your hair texture to look more "appealing", "professional", and "decent" - It is the ABUSE of these aforementioned styles/products, as well as other styling aids that cause some of us sisters who have drier hair (4b- and beyond) not to retain as much length.

What about women with 4b hair that can grow dreads down to their bottoms? My sister has the most kinkiest, cottony texture hair I have ever seen, and she has ALWAYS had extremely long hair. WHY? My mother didn't relax her hair as a child, and presses weren't allowed until her senior year in high school. My mother took very good care of her hair, and now, as an adult my sister takes care of it just as well.

Our hair doesn't grow out "brittle, see through, or chewed up" it is this way because of the way we choose to handle it.

 

[lilyofthevalley]

Oh, I did not lump all blacks together, that's why I mentioned hair texture which is based on genetics. The individual differences always abound, but it is also important to note that racial groups do have disparities and that should not be ignored (i.e. Cystic Fibrosis, Sickle Cell, etc). Kinkier hair is definitely a genetic trait that is associated with blacks although each individual's hair may vary.

But you were in a way lumping black people together by hair texture. I'm just saying that the rate of hair growth doesn't really rely on hair texture so while kinky hair is a genetic trait associated with blacks, you can't really take two people with, say 4b hair and assume that they are going to have the same rate of growth based on their hair texture alone. Within that group of people with 4b hair, there will still be people with fast hair growth and those with slower hair growth. Hence, why I find the use of hair type, which people use as an indicator of race, as being a bit problematic for determining growth rate. For instance, I'm primarily a 3c with some patches of type 4a hair yet all of my hair grows at the same rate despite the fact that 4a hair is kinkier than 3c.


Also whenever this topic comes up on this board, some people post studies that have found racial differences in the rate of hair growth. However, even in these articles the differences are not that substantial. For instance, one study cited that black people on average get 0.4 inches of hair while white people get 0.5 inches. Going by this study the average black person will get 4.8 inches of hair in a year while the average white person will get 6 inches. That's a difference of 1.2 inches which in the long run is not a big difference. I can cut 1.2 inches off my hair right and not really notice much of a difference.


As for not ignoring racial differences, I'm all for that. However, lets keep in mind that while certain races may have a disposition for a certain trait, that doesn't mean that most of the members of that race will have that trait. For instance, while white males may be more predisposed to cystic fibrosis than black males, the average white man does not have cystic fibrosis nor is it impossible for a black man to have the disorder.

 

[GabbanaGirl]

But you were in a way lumping black people together by hair texture. I'm just saying that the rate of hair growth doesn't really rely on hair texture so while kinky hair is a genetic trait associated with blacks, you can't really take two people with, say 4b hair and assume that they are going to have the same rate of growth based on their hair texture alone. Within that group of people with 4b hair, there will still be people with fast hair growth and those with slower hair growth. Hence, why I find the use of hair type, which people use as an indicator of race, as being a bit problematic for determining growth rate. For instance, I'm primarily a 3c with some patches of type 4a hair yet all of my hair grows at the same rate despite the fact that 4a hair is kinkier than 3c.


Also whenever this topic comes up on this board, some people post studies that have found racial differences in the rate of hair growth. However, even in these articles the differences are not that substantial. For instance, one study cited that black people on average get 0.4 inches of hair while white people get 0.5 inches. Going by this study the average black person will get 4.8 inches of hair in a year while the average white person will get 6 inches. That's a difference of 1.2 inches which in the long run is not a big difference. I can cut 1.2 inches off my hair right and not really notice much of a difference.


As for not ignoring racial differences, I'm all for that. However, lets keep in mind that while certain races may have a disposition for a certain trait, that doesn't mean that most of the members of that race will have that trait. For instance, while white males may be more predisposed to cystic fibrosis than black males, the average white man does not have cystic fibrosis nor is it impossible for a black man to have the disorder.

well said!

 

[LisaLisa1908]

Hair GROWS.

It is RETENTION that is the issue. If you do not care for the weakest hair (your ends), they will break off and you will lose the progress of any growth at the scalp.

The MAIN reason why so many BM are stuck at SL is because the hair ends rub against their clothes and the ends break. ENDS ARE FRAGILE. That's why protective styling helps. It doesn't make the hair grow faster; it just makes the ends stay on longer instead of breaking off.

Find your regimen, protect your ends and do what you can. Stop comparing yourself to what others have and looking for excuses as to why you can't have what they have. Sometimes you have to work harder for what you want - SO BE IT.

If you keep doing what you've always done, you keep getting what you've always got.

 

[anon123]

I understand the whole texture and genetics and retention discussion, yes. But when we're getting jealous of cancer survivors for their hair, I think it might be time to step back from this hair obsession of ours.

 

[Mitey Cyrus]

I understand the whole texture and genetics and retention discussion, yes. But when we're getting jealous of cancer survivors for their hair, I think it might be time to step back from this hair obsession of ours.

Okay? Next thing you know, there's a thread started about "Where can I find the type of cancer meds that will get me the loosest coil?"

 

[Encore]

I understand the whole texture and genetics and retention discussion, yes. But when we're getting jealous of cancer survivors for their hair, I think it might be time to step back from this hair obsession of ours.

True. True.
but I think that most of us were referring to the fact of how fast it grew and how gentics plays a major part. Not the fact that she has hair again. That would just be...really really mean-spirited

I didnt get that vibe from the OP. Just the frustration most of us on here feel when we are trying to reach our goals. Many times we get discouraged. I honestly cant say I'd be jealous. More of amazed of how fast it grew and happy that she was healthy again. I do understand her point of saying that genitics is more of a factor than we are willing to admit on here.

thats Just how I feel.



BTW..wow i just turned my siggies back on today mwedzi your hair grewww. Geeze now that I'm seeing them again I missed a whole lotta updates!

 

[luckiestdestiny]

Have you been to longhaircommunity.com? I occasionally go there and see what they're up to. Predominantly white site and they always complain about slow growth and how their hair averages .5 a month too. So I don't think anyone race is super Hair growth. We all have the same issues. It's probably that we have a prob with retention just as other kinkier hair types will have a problem.

Also I hope your coworker/friend is doing well after her rounds of chemo. You should definitely be wishing her the best and not hating.

 

[QBOE2001]

I vote for genetics. I myself am a newbie cancer survivor and although I had chemo I did not lose all of my hair, I only lost a patch in the top front. I have noticed a significant change in texture in the new growth in this area (curl pattern is significantly more relaxed). I don't really think that it is growing any faster than it did prior to the chemo but I have noticed that that particular area stays better moisturized than the rest of my hair and possibly because of this is less prone to breakage. That area tends to "Look" like it has more new growth than the rest of my hair but when I stretch out the hair from the other areas the growth rate is comparable. Sigh....I really wish that faster growth would have happened for me but unfortunately that just didn't happen. Doesn't really matter I guess cause I just feel blessed to be healthy but I sure do wish I could style my hair without having to do the bald man combover LOL.

 

[Iluvsmuhgrass]

I vote for genetics. I myself am a newbie cancer survivor and although I had chemo I did not lose all of my hair, I only lost a patch in the top front. I have noticed a significant change in texture in the new growth in this area (curl pattern is significantly more relaxed). I don't really think that it is growing any faster than it did prior to the chemo but I have noticed that that particular area stays better moisturized than the rest of my hair and possibly because of this is less prone to breakage. That area tends to "Look" like it has more new growth than the rest of my hair but when I stretch out the hair from the other areas the growth rate is comparable. Sigh....I really wish that faster growth would have happened for me but unfortunately that just didn't happen. Doesn't really matter I guess cause I just feel blessed to be healthy but I sure do wish I could style my hair without having to do the bald man combover LOL.

That is awesome!

 

[QBOE2001]

Thanks life is good!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Filmatic]

I too believe genetics has more to do with it. I know my family's hair tends t grow fast. Most in my family have had WSL or at least BSL before the cuts start. My hair is almost SL when it was about EL when I BCed. I always thought I was a slow grower until I got my retention together.

I must say that comparing one's self to another race/person is a slippery slope. I just can't do that. I don't care how fast Susie down the block hair is growing. It doesn't make my hair grow, slow, or bounce.

 

[crumbling_images]

Im in NYC as well...

1) A large majority of black women i see have some form off fake hair in their heads (weave ponytails, full blown obvious weaves, extension braids and kinky twists, tracks)

2) The women i see with real hair have chewed up, short, see-through straight hair. It is rare that is see a black woman with lengthy, healthy, moisturized straight hair.

Unpopular Opinion ahead...

3) Like someone else in the thread stated...i don't care what anybody on this board says...hair growth rate is 99% genetic and 1% nurture, LOL.

I always chuckle at the indian women threads on this board and how folks oooohh and aahhh over their hair/hair growth rates and try to speculate on which techniques/combinations of oils/ayurvedic practices these women use to get long hair. I'm like, it is largely just due to genetics.

Boy oh boy..you summed my thoughts exactly.

 

[jupitermoon]

I agree with the others that said that hair growth is mostly genetic. Some people's hair grows slow, and others grows fast, but I think that retention is most important.

 

[Poohbear]

I believe the hair growth rate of 1/2 an inch a month is average for all races. However, I believe the retention rate of hair varies due to hair texture and hair care. In my opinion, people with straighter, thicker, moisturized hair that is left alone most of the time can retain more length than tightly curled, thinner, dry, manipulated hair while the growth rate may very well be the same.

 

[Xerxes]

I've quietly pondered to myself whether or not Black women have comparatively slower hair growth because, from an evolutionary standpoint, we were meant to reside in sunny areas.

Then I think of Indians and other aboriginal peoples and I realize that that theory is hogwashish at best.

All of that is to say that once and for all, we need to stop conflating hair texture with hair growth. 4B+ WLS don't exist because it is only recently that Black women are coming to terms with how to properly grow their hair. And they DO exist - those women who endeavor to take care of their hair are able to grow it out. Look at Mwedzi and I defy anyone to say that someone with 4A/B hair can't grow it out.

I don't take issue with the notion that women of other races are able to grow their hair faster or longer (even though I disagree with it). But to solely blame genetics when the sample size isn't even large is enough is, in my humble opinion, a huge mistake.

Ok, since I don't have time to read everyone's post, I'll address this one because I disagree with it the most! LOL

1. I do think that blacks did evolve to generally have a different hair texture and growth rate due to the climate that we resided in. It's not a foolproof argument, but who needs WSL hair in the Serengeti???

2. Hair texture and hair growth (and/or retention) are indeed tied to one another. Trying to ignore this very obvious fact seems strange to me. On any given day how many Type 1-3 APLs do you see compared to Type 4bs?

I see nonBW and Type 1-3 women (of all races) with APL or longer hair all day long, it is not a challenge for them. They don't need an LHCF to help them learn to grow their hair.

Hair grows naturally and it is ludicrous to assume that we have to teach ourselves how to do something we can't control. All we can manipulate is retention (it's just fun right now for me to nag about growth rate). lol

If so many BW over the course of all history have had notably shorter hair than their nonBlack counterparts, then that points to a genetic predisposition for shorter hair.
I truly believe that Type 1s have stronger hair strands than Type 4bs and low hair types (Types 1-3, perhaps 4a too for laughs) also have quicker growth rates. I believe 4B hair is drier and more fragile than other types and this affects retention, compared to lower hair types that tend to have thicker, coarser strands of hair.


3. And the sample size is immense, I've seen this trend of quicker growing hair and better retention for all of my life (meaning every woman I have ever met).

4. And as a final bit of fun, I found an article that describes a hair texture gene that was identified last year. A mutation in this gene (P2RY5) supposedly leads to hair loss and "wooly" hair. When I looked at the pics, I thought the kids were just mixed, but I did find it strange that they didn't try to show that this "wooly" hair type is reminiscent of a common African hair type.

Link: http://www.springerlink.com/content/d86406r5568w8u20/fulltext.pdf

At least now with one gene identified, a group could look to see if 4bs have that mutation or another one and then perhaps unethical, rich women with 4b hair could some day in the future get gene therapy instead of perms or design babies that lack the mutation. lol