"I would never have touched a relaxer if I had pretty hair like that!?"

[NikkiGirl]

Just wanted to add that my mom has type 4 relaxed hair. Her hair is long pretty and straight....I wanted that. The only way she knew to give me that was a relaxer, and I didn't know anything, lol. I didn't get relaxed until high school. I remember in middle school I would look at all the girls hair and the straw that broke the camel's back was this one day at field day they sprayed us with water and my bangs curled up and poofed, I was horrified. All the other girls had straight, relaxed wet hair....nothing crazy looking like what was going on on my forehead, lol. Even though these girls all seemed to have damaged relaxed hair I still wanted it because it was straight and didn't poof up as soon as I stepped out the door......typical teenage mentality I guess. The relaxer was like a evolution for me. It was a learning process. I don't think I'd be where I'm at now without that experience. I started coming into my own.

This is totally me. I understand completely where you are coming from.

 

[Lynnerie]

I think we tend to forget that straight hair was what people desired to have and thats why they relaxed regardless if they were a type 4,3,or 2 because they believed that straight hair is more manageable. I know I felt this way myself and its not just because I didn't know how to manage my natural hair but I didn't see anyone in the media with hair like mine. Everyone with hair like mine just relaxed and the curly girls usually didn't because they had the so-called good hair.

But Its time we move past these feelings that our hair isn't good enough. Its a process to get rid of those feelings and having this site and youtube to see others with my hair type has helped me. I've learned and I'm continuing to learn my hair and love it because its mine. Its similar to not liking your skin color- you can't change it so just embrace it by making it smooth, clear, and healthy looking. Just accept everything about yourself and love yourself cause if you don't who will....

The more we wear our natural hair- the more it will be the norm and the more it will be accepted.

 

[BlackMasterPiece]

Wow. I started to quote posts but I realized I'd be quoting every poster on this page. You ladies are really making some insightful thought provoking points here.

It's so important to deprogram yourself and unlearn the myths to make room for the truth.

 

[hopeful]

We are all on some type of journey whether we are curly or kinky. People are less sympathetic towards 3's because they perceive them to have prettier, easier hair. Just like people may perceive someone with $, or a good man, or lighter skin, to have it easier. But I have found that having an open mind and compassion for everyone opens a pathway to happiness. There are light skinned women on here who have been beaten up in bathrooms because of their skin color. Curly haired ladies who were teased non-stop. It's better to not compare but focus on love, acceptance, compassion.

Comparing IMO always leads to problems because it is not fair to you or the other person. And we rarely have the whole story or picture. 4's need to see a 3, think her hair is pretty and keep it moving. 3's need to do the same. Wanting what someone else has or thinking you are better rarely leads to anything positive. I think happily maintaining a natural head of hair requires a mind-shift, an ability to be profoundly positive, optimistic, patient, persistent, focussed, and loving.

 

[kbragg]

Just to clarify, it's not that I feel is "ugly" or "not good enough" etc., and I'm not discounting that type 3's have hair challenges as well. I guess a good example would be a 3C hearing that Nicole Kidman relaxes her hair. Of course you'd feel like "What for?" because for YOU that head of hair would be much easier to manage (especially if you have an active lifestyle i.e. exercise or participate in sports) than your own.

Sure for her it may be difficult in her mind, but most people with curly hair would be like

 

[hopeful]

^^^It's still comparing unfairly IMO. But Kbragg, this thread has opened up a wonderful conversation. Thank you for starting it , your honesty is always so refreshing .

 

[Filmatic]

My mother just ruined my dreams the other day. I blew my hair out and kept trying to pat it in a for. I finally went to my mom and asked her how they did it in the 70s and she told me she couldn't do it and neither would I be able too. erplexed

She said I didn't have the hair type. I told her that is the gift of 4s. It's suppose to stand. I don't know what I am anymore.

Anyway, every hair type has its issues. Many curly hair people say it's unruly because of frizz, tangling, etc. Plus I agree sometimes people just want straight hair.

 

[Nonie]

My mother just ruined my dreams the other day. I blew my hair out and kept trying to pat it in a for. I finally went to my mom and asked her how they did it in the 70s and she told me she couldn't do it and neither would I be able too. erplexed

She said I didn't have the hair type. I told her that is the gift of 4s. It's suppose to stand. I don't know what I am anymore.

Anyway, every hair type has its issues. Many curly hair people say it's unruly because of frizz, tangling, etc. Plus I agree sometimes people just want straight hair.

If you blow out type 4 hair, it'll not form as good an afro as if you just braided it to stretch and then combed it out.

My hair blown out would be floppy and look like this:

My hair braided and then combed out forms a nice round shape:

What makes an afro is compact coils that stand up and prop each other up...so the more you stretch them out, the less able to stand they become. Also the longer your hair gets, the more gravity pulls down on the ends so that it flops. So as your hair gets longer, you will need to stretch it less to see a good afro shape.

My hair forms the best round shape when it is very shruken. I didn't need to pat this:

 

[PerplexingComplex]

A lot of girls get their hair relaxed when their young, so they probably have no idea of their hair type.

Also, I think it would depend on what someone considers easier. I have the whole spectrum of hair types in my family, so it might be easier for me to see the difficulties that can come with different hair types.

 

[Nonie]

I think if girls had grown up with dolls with type 4 hair and not only that silky shiny horse hair you see even on black dolls, then they would not be at a total loss on what to do with it or find it harder to manage. Throughout our childhood, we practiced styling other types of hair on our dolls, but never type 4 hair so it's only normal we'd find types 1, 2 and 3 so much easier.

 

[GreenD]

I understand what OP is saying as well as the other ladies. Everyone has their own struggles and issues with hair. I have an Egyptian coworker who I'm sure she muttered yesterday that her hair is "nappy". Ok, really? She has type 2 (waist length) hair and she's growing her perm out!!! What the hell does she think of people with type 4 hair if type 2 is "nappy"?! She thinks her hair is a hassle, but she told me it takes her about 20 mins. to wash, condition, blow dry and flat iron her hair. She was shocked when I told her it take several hours for me to do all that, and that I'd never make it to work if I had to do all of that every day.

In the bigger picture if you have curly hair regardless of the texture, your race or nationality you'll get resistance as I'm learning. So even if you have type 2, 3 or 4 hair those that have relaxed did it for manageability, acceptance, better styling, etc. While I may never understand how type 2 hair is "nappy" I know that God will never put more on you than what you can bare, and it goes for your hair too!!

 

[Southernbella.]

Kbragg, I felt like that in when I was younger.

I just want to echo everyone else who said the grass is always greener.

My bff has 3A hair and I've always thought it was easier for her. It wasn't until I went natural that we started talking about hair and she was actually envious of the styles I could do. We were at girls' night the other evening and she was watching me twist my hair. She said she would love to twist her hair but she tried it once and the twist just fell right out.

She's relaxed, but like Flowerhair, it does nothing to her hair. She goes to the Dominicans in the winter and wears it curly in the summer, but she never wears it out. It's always slicked back into a ponytail.

I asked her why she never wore it wild and free, and she said that she tried it once and her hair just laid there. It didn't get big like Mona from Half and Half or Tracee Ross. It was just limp, and she hates it, but she can't straighten it in the summer because it poofs right up.

So basically, she feels there is no style available to her other than a ponytail. I had no idea she felt that way about her hair, and even though she's mentioned several times that she likes her hair texture, she's very frustrated that she can't do anything with it.

I've tried to get her to come here but she won't. I showed her Pocahontas' album and that just made her feel worse because she bought a Denman and some kinky curly stuff and it didn't work.

I wouldn't trade heads with her. As easy as her hair seems, my hair has a lot more personality. Don't give up K. When you find a regimen and some styles that work for you, you will feel a lot better.

 

[yods]

/\ /\ OT: Southernbella could your friend's hair be heat damaged?

Nothing further to add that the wise women haven't already said. I have been natural just a year and still struggle somedays. Especially when I get the looks from people when I wear my fro. You know that look when someone is talking to you but their eye gradually on the sly keeps looking up at your hair and they kinda tilt their heads trying to work out what to make of it.

 

[ZkittyKurls]

im guessing that as good as 1s, 2s, or 3s may seem to have it, i know that they all have issues with their hair as with anything in life nothing is perfect nor is it easy. i know a few 1s and 2s that curl their hair and flip out when it rains and they hair becomes limp and flat. as when 3s and 4s flatiron their hair and it poofs back up when it rains. i am currently transitioning and have come to realize that i am a 4 and will be able to hold a plethera of styles, i have fine 3c hairs in the back and i tried twisting it and they DO NOT stay twisted for very long, but the 4a parts stay twisted, with or without product like its destined to be in that style. so i would be too through if my hair couldnt hold twists or braids all over. i had an associate that had 3b hair and her hair was gorgeous cause she would slick it up into a curly puff one day and flatiron it the next and it would be silky smooth. someone asked her if she had a perm or jerri curl and she was like no its my natural hair. everyone seemed so amazed and was saying she got that good hair. that made me want to go natural. then i realized after educating myself that i aint never gonna have hair like that so i might as well get over it or relax it. so i decided to get over it.lol but i totally get where you are coming from OP, :realitychecknce i realized that relaxers do me no good i decided id rather be natural and spend time tryna figure how to make it work, than be relaxed and still at NL. by the way since transitioning and i am slowly passing SL

 

[bluwatersoul]

Aww...OP, I don't think you're alone in feeling like that. I think a lot of those sentiments also stem from people not having been around a lot of heads sporting natural type 4 hair and so it's so "foreign" to them. Add to that the ignorance of how to handle it, and you see people getting frustrated because they are trying to make their hair do what type 3 hair does...because that's all they have seen around them that's natural and so its care info is all that met them at every corner.

It's like when some of you as kids wore towels on their heads and pretended it was long flowing hair. You saw that hair on TV, in movies, in books and around you, and while your hair was relaxed so you hair sorta looked like that, it may have been too short to swing, so you dreamed of having hair down your back that flows and moves when you move your head. I think the "envy" is really more from familiarity with hair that looks more like 3, 2 and 1...than anything else. And then because it's on every person who's called "beautiful" in magazines and movies...it grows on you and you believe in it and come to associate it with beauty. You'll be surprised how a seed planted in a young mind grows into a tree way back in the subconscious that keeps waving it's branches even if only in the dark.

I am guessing this because I have been around type 4 hair more than any other hair in my life and I have never envied any other hair type. I actually didn't go through tons of products to find the ONE, and I don't spend hours detangling or fussing with my hair. TBH, I find my hair so obedient and easy to control that I swear to you, I would not give it up for any other. And that is the honest-to-God truth. Even as a kid, all I ever wanted was a big puff--big combed out afro puff. I never did the towel hair thing and I've never been excited about having clumped coils as a style, although I do think my tiny coils are pretty cute. But I'd rather enjoy them at the end of my twists than as a type of hair-out do.

)

I have never really envied any other hair type either, but did grow up always wishing for more of what I already had. We had so much pride in our fros and puffs back then, and the girls that were most admired (and women) had these huge halos that were so droolworthy! My hair was well cared for and pretty and very healthy, there just was the abundance of it that I wanted. It is a quest I am still on!

 

[beautyaddict1913]

I understand everyone's p.o.v. in this thread. Growing up in urban schools there was pressure to perm. I got in trouble for protesting to run in the rain at gym class in 6th grade cuz my pressed hair was going to "go back". I paid my beautician $5 for a press (in 1997) every two weeks and my hair was heat damaged and I didn't know it until I think back now at how it never fully reverted!
But the kids at the urban schools would even ask the type 3 curlies "why you 'ont get no perm?" The question in return shoulda been "why you 'ont got no hair, why is it pulled back in a rubberband with no ponytail?" Lol! Everybody has a story!

One thing I will say is that it seems like my type 3 friends don't really have to transition. They relax once every winter and flatiron their hair to death every week thereafter. Then in the summertime they do wash and go's and it appears that they have a whole head of natural hair! Wtf? I "aint had nary perm" in a year and a half and it is a CLEAR distinction between my natural and relaxed hair whether its wet, dry, braided out, or twisted out! Ooo somebody help me understand that lol!

 

[Morenita]

I understand everyone's p.o.v. in this thread. Growing up in urban schools there was pressure to perm. I got in trouble for protesting to run in the rain at gym class in 6th grade cuz my pressed hair was going to "go back". I paid my beautician $5 for a press (in 1997) every two weeks and my hair was heat damaged and I didn't know it until I think back now at how it never fully reverted!
But the kids at the urban schools would even ask the type 3 curlies "why you 'ont get no perm?" The question in return shoulda been "why you 'ont got no hair, why is it pulled back in a rubberband with no ponytail?" Lol! Everybody has a story!

One thing I will say is that it seems like my type 3 friends don't really have to transition. They relax once every winter and flatiron their hair to death every week thereafter. Then in the summertime they do wash and go's and it appears that they have a whole head of natural hair! Wtf? I "aint had nary perm" in a year and a half and it is a CLEAR distinction between my natural and relaxed hair whether its wet, dry, braided out, or twisted out! Ooo somebody help me understand that lol!

Lol @ the bolded. I have a cousin like that. She's about a 3b/c and I remember her first relaxer. She didn't get another for about a year and her hair completely reverted to about a 3b texture. It was gorgeous. I asked my mom why her hair did that and not mine, haha.

It's been said multiple times, and here's once more It's a combination of peer pressure/not knowing any better/searching for manageability. I'm in the 3c range, and my kids are 3b and 3c silky, and sometimes I honestly find it easier to care for my daughter's 3c hair than my other daughter's long, extremely fine 3b hair. It stays put! My 3b head always has matting and tangling, and requires more tlc Like so many have said, the grass is definitely always greener; just look at all these people in here 3-something begging for a fro'

Similar to the consensus, I got a relaxer at a young age. It just wasn't "cool" to have un-straight hair in my predominantly black city/town/school. I begged my mom for one and was sooo excited when I finally got it. I will never forget how tickled I was that my hair stayed put when I brushed it back, and how I was constantly seen patting the top of my head in disbelief of how flat it was and that I could feel my scalp. I never even thought of transitioning until my cousin did (the same one I mentioned above) because it had been such a long time since I had even seen my natural hair that I had forgotten what it looked like.

I think that it's fitting to say, "I would never have touched a relaxer if I (or my parent(s)) knew how to take proper care of my pretty hair back in the day"

All hair has needs yes, but curly hair has extra special needs, as all of us here know. If one doesn't know what to do with it and there's an easy way out, you better believe that's the road most will take. Unfortunate, but true.

 

[Solitude]

I think that it's fitting to say, "I would never have touched a relaxer if I (or my parent(s)) knew how to take proper care of my pretty hair back in the day"

I agree with this and I think it applies to most people, regardless of curl pattern/texture.

 

[knt1229]

I learn so much from you LHCF ladies. Really, I do.

I remember growing up that black girls with certain hair types didn't relax or press because they didn't have to. My good friend growing up had long type 3 hair her mother told her that relaxers, pressing and braids was for "nappy headed" people not for people with hair like hers. She did ask her mom to press because everybody else did and when her mom did her dad got mad and said pressing hair like theirs messes it up (her parents were type 3's also).

I have also been around women who were very much aware of how their skin tone and hair type was definitely an asset. FWIW, there is nothing wrong with that because in the BC it is valued.

 

[Minty]

Unpopular thing to admit out loud, but I constantly find myself thinking that whenever see someone BC and they turn out to be a 3 a, b, or c. Of course I'm biased as a 4a/b but for me I can understand why a type 4 would relax. The number of products you have to go through to find what works. The hours of twisting braiding and cornrowing, washing hair in sections, the debil also known as single strand knots, I mean without true dedication to being an natural it's easy to give in to the creamy crack lol.

But type 3's? Why? I would love to be able to just do a wash and go, to have curls without a twist or braid out or rollerset, to have hair that can be brushed flat into a pony tail without having to use a scarf to tie down the edges etc, to be able to retain more length since the hair is less fragile, less dry and less likely to ssk.

Anyway, I know I'm supposed to think all hair type are pretty and maintenance and care on a 4a/b head is just as quick and easy as any other hair type but I'm not there yet.

I don't think type 4 type hair is "bad" and 3 and under is "good" perse, just a bit easier i.e. less bulk. Nobody can rock a fro like a type 4 though

not all "type 3" curls are "beautiful" or easily handled. The strands stretch like crazy and then snap! It looks resilient but it is fragile - many of them wash (should wash) their hair in braids because it is unruly. And the longer it gets the more difficult it becomes. The reason they (curly curly 3's) wash it so much is because it has to be wet to comb - just like 4a/b. Type 3 can have bad shrinkage - curls tangle on each other, have fine/very fine strands, is prone to breakage (but you can't tell because its so voluminous), and doesn't handle chemicals well - NO highlights or high volume hair color for them.

So, everything on the surface, but once you see the reality.....

 

[Southernbella.]

/\ /\ OT: Southernbella could your friend's hair be heat damaged?

Nothing further to add that the wise women haven't already said. I have been natural just a year and still struggle somedays. Especially when I get the looks from people when I wear my fro. You know that look when someone is talking to you but their eye gradually on the sly keeps looking up at your hair and they kinda tilt their heads trying to work out what to make of it.

I doubt it. Her hair is SUPER resillient. I've seen it relaxed, I've seen it kind of natural (she stretched for over a year when she was in law school in Vermont and couldn't find a hairdresser), and I see it now that she's been seeing the Dominicans regularly. Her curls are exactly the same as they've always been in every situation. She just doesn't have a lot of volume to her hair.

 

[AfroKink]

I understand everyone's p.o.v. in this thread. Growing up in urban schools there was pressure to perm. I got in trouble for protesting to run in the rain at gym class in 6th grade cuz my pressed hair was going to "go back". I paid my beautician $5 for a press (in 1997) every two weeks and my hair was heat damaged and I didn't know it until I think back now at how it never fully reverted!
But the kids at the urban schools would even ask the type 3 curlies "why you 'ont get no perm?" The question in return shoulda been "why you 'ont got no hair, why is it pulled back in a rubberband with no ponytail?" Lol! Everybody has a story!

One thing I will say is that it seems like my type 3 friends don't really have to transition. They relax once every winter and flatiron their hair to death every week thereafter. Then in the summertime they do wash and go's and it appears that they have a whole head of natural hair! Wtf? I "aint had nary perm" in a year and a half and it is a CLEAR distinction between my natural and relaxed hair whether its wet, dry, braided out, or twisted out! Ooo somebody help me understand that lol!

I believe its because people with type 3 hair (and down) have thicker hair strands than people with type 4 hair. Contrast the rope like strands of a Japanese person. Notice how when they're babies it just sticks out spiky. The curlier the hair, the thinner and flatter (like ribbon) the strands need to be to bend at such tight angles.

So in reality type 3s need a stronger relaxer than type 4s on average. But when you go into a salon with type 4 hair the stylist slaps on the strongest stuff she has and damages the hair. And when a type 3 comes in, she'll put on a more gentle brand. Plus if a type 4 and 3 used the same relaxer, the person with the thinner strands (type 4) would have the larger change.

Thats my analysis anyways. Other opinions?

 

[Vshanell]

I believe its because people with type 3 hair (and down) have thicker hair strands than people with type 4 hair. Contrast the rope like strands of a Japanese person. Notice how when they're babies it just sticks out spiky. The curlier the hair, the thinner and flatter (like ribbon) the strands need to be to bend at such tight angles.

So in reality type 3s need a stronger relaxer than type 4s on average. But when you go into a salon with type 4 hair the stylist slaps on the strongest stuff she has and damages the hair. And when a type 3 comes in, she'll put on a more gentle brand. Plus if a type 4 and 3 used the same relaxer, the person with the thinner strands (type 4) would have the larger change.

Thats my analysis anyways. Other opinions?

I've noticed the opposite, most type 3's say they have fine hair.

My hair is fine and when I was relaxed my stylist used the same relaxer on me as she did on someone who's 4a/b and to make matters worse when I went in for retouches she relaxed all of my hair again....still had curls. They came back more and more over a matter of time. By the time I was starting to transition (i wish I had pics) my hair was over-processed but still curly to the point where my two textures were not drastically different. I could wear wash n' go's with half a head of natural hair and half head relaxed w/o it looking crazy.

 

[Tene]

I'm a type 4a and my daughter is a type 4b also and neither one of our hair is coarse or hard to manage. I do wash n gos everyday with no problems at all and don't have to twist my hair everyday or have problems with tangles. I can smooth my hair back with no problem and don't need a scarf. I think people need to quit making generalizations about type 4 hair or any other hair type. All type 4 hair is not the same, there are different textures as well as other stuff. Not all type 3s are the same either. I've seen type 3 hair that was dry looking, frizzy, undefined without product. Not all 3s have silky, smooth, defined curls. I think the problem with people is that they are wishing for other people's hair instead of just learning how to take care of their own. If people would quit trying to make their hair do what it doesn't do naturally, then they wouldn't have any problems. Work with your texture and not against it. I have no problems at all doing my daughter's 4b hair cause I know what it can and can't do and what products to use. But her father's moron family have damaged her hair twice trying to make it do other things. I know her hair won't lay down, look smooth, or look super shiny. So I don't try to make her hair do those things cause I know it won't.

 

[prospurr4]

My hair type is 4b/4c, all kinks, not a curl in sight. When I see type 3 hair, I think the curls are pretty, but I really love my own texture, especially the thickness.

I have been natural and now texlax, because I want to enjoy the LENGTH of my hair, as well as the thickness, which was hard for me to do, since I have decided to avoid direct heat.

I think all hair types have their "issues," I'm just grateful for what I have.

 

[hillytmj]

I have no comment about the topic, but I wanted to congratulate the OP on her weight loss. Losing weight is no easy feat, and you look great. Congrats!

 

[Mook's hair]

I think I used to have those kinds of thoughts years ago but they have totally stopped as a result of more involvement with various hair types.

I tend to encounter problems with the type 3 hair of my nieces. And so I truly feel like I'd never in a million years trade my type 4 hair for type 3 anything.

The tangles and dryness are just nuts in their hair. I'll take my super fro over their S shaped curl pattern every time.

When you're trying to make your hair be someone- elses hair and act like what it's not... that's when you run into problems and mental blocks.

 

[GaiasDaughter24]

I think a lot of us had no clue what to do with our hair whether we are type 3 or 4. My sister-in-law is 3b and she had a perm because her mom had no clue what to do with it. My MIL is type 1 baby fine. She doesn't do anything with her own hair so textured hair was COMPLETELY foreign to her. I don't even know HOW they relaxed it. When they asked me to (while doing it all I could think was "this child does NOT need a relaxer") it didn't even take. I guess they had to leave it on for a loooong time for it to take. Her hair was shoulder length, dry and insanely damaged. It looked a HAM.

In her eyes she just wanted straight hair. My inlaws raised their children in an all white neighborhood. There are maybe 2 other biracial children in the whole town. My SIL was teased relentlessly, thus making her HATE her hair. I told her in the AA community most women covet her hair and she couldn't understand why. I helped her take care of her hair and she is now in between APL and BSL. Her problem now is she has SEVERE heat damage. She was STILL trying to not be her. She wanted to be like her friends. Since I've gone natural she's decided she wanted to also. My 4a hair has inspired her to wear her hair naturally. She says she's over the straight hair. She's currently growing out the damaged ends so she can have her natural textue back. I'm poud of her. She's finally accepted herself.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that there are many reasons why type 3's relax. To some of us (including myself not long ago) we can't understand why. But we really dont know their back story. I've learned that almost EVERYONE has something about their hair that they don't like. Frizz, lack of curl definition, shrinkage, takes to long to dry, etc. In the end, the grass is always greener on the other side.

 

[anon123]

I'd like to hear from people who actually have to deal with natural type 3 and type 4 hair regularly. Like OP who has her own hair and the hair of her children. I think they have the best vantage point on the pros and cons of different hair types and if any are easier than others. I personally believe that some are.

 

[CoilyFields]

I understand OP. Its like, if a 3a/b and a 4a/b traded places for a month (learning the pros and cons of their new hair type) at the end of the month, who would be more likely to prefer to go back to their original hair type and who would stay with the new hair type?
Though I enjoy my 4b hair and have learned about it through trial and error I can admit that I would still probebly be more likely to choose to be 3b.

Mwedzi...Im a parent of a child with 3b/c hair and Im 4b. I can definately say that doing her hair is easier. We have totally different reginmens and products and she has had her own set of issues (her summer cornrows dont stay fresh looking like they would if she was in the 4's lol) but overall I have found her hair to be easier to manage than mine.

But its funny that even with her having 3b/c hair...other black women have been completely shocked that I did not plan on perming her hair in the future. Which goes to show that the "ideal" is still straight, whether youre 3 or 4.