How Do You Give Freedom Without Being A Doormat?

[Fine 4s]

Had a really good conversation with an oder couple about the freedom they give each other in their marriage. and before their marriage. While I agree in theory that one should have the god given right to live the only live they were given the way they CHOSE to, I don't FEEL OK with that just yet. Imposing 'rules' (or the lighter term boundaries) to the relationship make me feel better, gives me a (maybe false) sense of safety and control. They (mainly him) looked at me like I was crazy lol. Like all the crap that I've ready here or online or hear from others is utterly off and not about love but control and secretly I'm like that with certain close friends.
Oh and I brought up the Mike Pence thread too, you know the rule he 'claims' to have about not having dinner with any female unless his wife is present.

So my question is, how does one allow their partner to travel the world solo, go to that salsa dance club, hang out with their own friends without you, etc. without feeling threatened or like a doormat?

 

[Layluh]

I followed mark zuckerbergs wife advice. She said she wants one date night a week and 100 minutes of alone time. And a honeymoon every year. But I just got engaged so we’ll see how it works out.

I think I prefer it this way cause I like being alone and prefer not to be bothered and genuinely don’t Carr what he does. The more he’s away the better. So doing it this way is a way to keep him away from me. “Baby let’s go out again...sorry we’ve already had our date night for the week. Try next week lol”

 

[yamilee21]

In theory, that should be a matter of trust. People should be able to have separate hobbies or interests, though they should be open about what they are doing, and there should be occasional common points. For example, if one partner is devoted to a particular charitable cause, you wouldn't expect the spouse to attend every meeting and event, but if there is a gala dinner, they would attend together. But the reality that I have seen with most couples who have many separate activities/separate lives, is that they eventually divorced. Or, in the cases where they were married for a long time (20+ years) it was more about staying together for financial security, while ignoring the cheating, etc. The only exception I know is one much older couple (married 60+ years) where the wife is disabled and in a wheelchair - she lets her husband travel without her as a reward for being her caretaker 99% of the time; to my knowledge, he hasn't cheated - though at this point, he's probaby too old to cheat anyway.

 

[mrselle]

Different things work for different couples. Its up to the couple to establish boundaries. No one knows better than you what you can tolerate and what you won't tolerate. State what you want up front and go from there. Compromise, but don't compromise to the point that everything is to your partner's benefit and there is nothing left for you.

Last year my husband and I went to a formal event. A married friend of ours (casual acquaintance) was sitting at our table. His wife did not attend with him. Over the course of the conversation he mentioned that after 26 years of marriage he and his wife just check in with each other, find out what the other is doing for the weekend then they go about their business. This would not be ok with me, but it works for him and his marriage. My parents, on the other hand are always together. They have no interest a part from each other and rarely go anywhere without each other unless its for work. To me, this would be draining, but it works for them.

My husband and I have shared interest and we have things we like to do alone or with friends. I have no problem with him hanging with the guys, but I'm particular about who because birds of a feather flock together. For me, spending time together shouldn't be a burden to either of us and our separate interest shouldn't take priority over our marriage. Its all about balance for both partners.

 

[hopeful]

I think the key is that you only partner with a person who has similar boundaries, priorities, and values as you. They can and should have their own interest, hobbies, friends, etc. but for the most part you have to be on the same page about boundaries. IMO people with loose boundaries are scary. People with too high boundaries aren’t fun and hard to get to know. People with inconsistent boundaries are scary too.

Figure out who you are and what you want and don’t settle. Trying to make an adult adapt to our boundaries is crossing their boundaries, imposing our will and likes and dislikes on them. So I guess I’m saying that I think compatibility is one the most important criteria for a long term relationship.

 

[okange76]

Now they are old and do everything together. When they were much younger, my parents had very separate interests. My Dad loved soccer and hit the stadium almost every Saturday. My mother never went. She loved to dance and enjoyed live music. My Dad thought that it was noisy and hated it. Whenever they came back, they would stay up all night chatting telling each other what went down at each event. The only things they ever did together was church, office parties, weddings, and house parties for Easter and Xmass.

Even weddings depended on whether his soccer team was playing or not. Back then there were no limo services for weddings and my Dad had a decent ride which he let friends and family use. My mother put on her big Church hats and bright suits playing chauffeur at weddings on days my Dad dipped because he had a soccer game to watch. He would then get the Thank You note instead of her and she'd be so upset. Rinse and repeat.

My mother told me that she really values the fact that my Dad let her be herself and enjoy her life despite having bills and kids. My Dad's friends thought he was a punk because he wasn't controlling and chasing after my Mum everywhere. The fact that she was able to have balance, made her a more productive person and she helped my Dad build himself. Guess who's always hitting my Dad up for money? Those same friends who thought their wives were too pretty to educate and had to be barefoot and pregnant all the time. They never built anything together at all.

 

[movingforward13]

By having a life of your own too. For some reason, many women become engulfed in their role as a wife and mother and put their own interests aside. So then it is like she becomes needy and always wants her husband around. When she has her own interests, the “neediness” lessens and you may actual see the man begging her to stay around more because he misses her.

 

[Fine 4s]

My dance teacher always talked about how her husband complained that she was never around.

@okange76 I LOVE your parents story!


My question is less about having a life of your own (because I think we all know it's best) but also how do you know when the rules that you've loosened are also allowing room for inappropriate stuff to go down? This goes back to the trust point brought up earlier.

The only examples I can think of is the Mike Pence story that he doesn't go out to dinner with women unless his wife is around, @okange76 you're mom going out dancing without her husband is very forward thinking! You would NOT see this where I grew up. A year ago I'd agree with the Pence reasoning. But now, not so much.

Some time ago, I had asked if it was OK for your man to go salsa dancing without his gf/wife and one person said yeah, they'd feel uncomfortable with that. I remember asking a friend and she was like but Fine 4s, what if that's what he likes to do? I was stuck on the sensuality of it all and a part of me believes that there are places that are just not for people in relationships (I know, I'm nuts). Hearing you're parents story shows that @hopeful's point is key. Compatibility. No one way is wrong or right it's just what works for the couple.


Do both people have to agree wholeheartedly or can there be compromise? For example although I know my 'rules' are wack and trying to improve on my 'grip' and possessiveness, would I match up with a free spirit who likes to go dancing every night? Here's the thing, I'm also a free spirit and would hate for someone to tell me I can't do this that or the other. But why then am I this way? Hypocrite galor!

 

[PeaceFlow]

I don't worry about anything unless someone gave me reason to doubt them.

There would have to be something "off" about the set up, situation or his behavior to make me go there.

We do protect our relationships by the no new opposite sex friends rule. Apart from that I don't mind him catching up with friends, occasional hols or him going to a bar/club etc...

I think its totally fine that some things push your comfort level. Although stuff like men having 1 million women friends or being a passionate Kizomba dancer should come up in the dating process and you can dip if it's not for you. Nothing wrong with that. It wouldn't be for me but I know people who are fine with that which makes them a good match.

how do you know when the rules that you've loosened are also allowing room for inappropriate stuff to go down? This goes back to the trust point brought up earlier.

This depends on the assumption that your rules are actually doing something to the point something inappropriate only goes down if you allow it. If a man has a tendency to be inappropriate he will do so no matter what. The most likely place a dodgy man is gonna act dodgy is a mixed gender workplace. You can't tell him not to go to work and he's there, away from you for 40 hours a week lol . You cant control his internet access either and there's so much access to talk to women. The controlling relationship gives a false sense of security.

Telling your man to go and enjoy a night with his friends isn't going to turn him into something he already isn't.

 

[C@ssandr@]

Had a really good conversation with an oder couple about the freedom they give each other in their marriage. and before their marriage. While I agree in theory that one should have the god given right to live the only live they were given the way they CHOSE to, I don't FEEL OK with that just yet. Imposing 'rules' (or the lighter term boundaries) to the relationship make me feel better, gives me a (maybe false) sense of safety and control. They (mainly him) looked at me like I was crazy lol. Like all the crap that I've ready here or online or hear from others is utterly off and not about love but control and secretly I'm like that with certain close friends.
Oh and I brought up the Mike Pence thread too, you know the rule he 'claims' to have about not having dinner with any female unless his wife is present.

So my question is, how does one allow their partner to travel the world solo, go to that salsa dance club, hang out with their own friends without you, etc. without feeling threatened or like a doormat?

How are you defining "freedom" and "boundaries"? I ask this because your post makes these concepts sound negative while they are not.

**my two cents. Freedom and Boundaries are essential to a relationship. First off, we cannot control others, which is why choosing a partner with similar values is imperative. Trying to control someone makes you a nag at best, and abusive at worst.

General answer to the question you posted:

- Check your self esteem. It is not your partners job to make you feel secure in every waking moment. For me it has always been as simple as "not dating people I can't trust". If a negro is shady, don't commit . When you are sane and have good esteem you recognize that in others.

- Get a life. Seriously. Or date a homebody. I say this because those who have lives understand others who have lives. Also, having your own thing going on is healthy for you.

 

[C@ssandr@]

I don't worry about anything unless someone gave me reason to doubt them.

There would have to be something "off" about the set up, situation or his behavior to make me go there.

We do protect our relationships by the no new opposite sex friends rule. Apart from that I don't mind him catching up with friends, occasional hols or him going to a bar/club etc...

I think its totally fine that some things push your comfort level. Although stuff like men having 1 million women friends or being a passionate Kizomba dancer should come up in the dating process and you can dip if it's not for you. Nothing wrong with that. It wouldn't be for me but I know people who are fine with that which makes them a good match.



This depends on the assumption that your rules are actually doing something to the point something inappropriate only goes down if you allow it. If a man has a tendency to be inappropriate he will do so no matter what. The most likely place a dodgy man is gonna act dodgy is a mixed gender workplace. You can't tell him not to go to work and he's there, away from you for 40 hours a week lol . You cant control his internet access either and there's so much access to talk to women. The controlling relationship gives a false sense of security.

Telling your man to go and enjoy a night with his friends isn't going to turn him into something he already isn't.

Great post.

My dance teacher always talked about how her husband complained that she was never around.

@okange76 I LOVE your parents story!


My question is less about having a life of your own (because I think we all know it's best) but also how do you know when the rules that you've loosened are also allowing room for inappropriate stuff to go down? This goes back to the trust point brought up earlier.

The only examples I can think of is the Mike Pence story that he doesn't go out to dinner with women unless his wife is around, @okange76 you're mom going out dancing without her husband is very forward thinking! You would NOT see this where I grew up. A year ago I'd agree with the Pence reasoning. But now, not so much.

Some time ago, I had asked if it was OK for your man to go salsa dancing without his gf/wife and one person said yeah, they'd feel uncomfortable with that. I remember asking a friend and she was like but Fine 4s, what if that's what he likes to do? I was stuck on the sensuality of it all and a part of me believes that there are places that are just not for people in relationships (I know, I'm nuts). Hearing you're parents story shows that @hopeful's point is key. Compatibility. No one way is wrong or right it's just what works for the couple.


Do both people have to agree wholeheartedly or can there be compromise? For example although I know my 'rules' are wack and trying to improve on my 'grip' and possessiveness, would I match up with a free spirit who likes to go dancing every night? Here's the thing, I'm also a free spirit and would hate for someone to tell me I can't do this that or the other. But why then am I this way? Hypocrite galor!

From what it sounds like, you're just fearful of "potential inappropriate behavior".

Back when I was still single I noticed that I became hyperaware about sneaky, cheating men. What I realized is that this fear came from hearing so many stories from heartbroken woman. I personally have never been cheated on or experienced this level of ****ery from a man, but somehow the potential became a new reality.

How often so you meet or hear about happy couples? Even this section of the forum has more stories of bad dates and horrible men than successful happy couples.

My point is that it seems like you can use a change of perspective. Instead of focusing on what you want to avoid in a relationship, dream of what you do want. Do you know anything about LOA? Anything about attracting what you focus on?

I think that your mindset is a great start since you seem well adjusted, just sort of influenced by others. Keep dating and you'll see from experience how your personal boundaries and his will fall in line or collide. You'll get to see for yourself where trust and compromise should come into play. There's some great posts in this thread that basically cover it all. At this point you would need to kind of feel it out on your own, especially since boundaries and such are truly personal.

Eta: Katarina Phang and Rori Raye both cover the idea of doing inner work. Maybe you can look in those threads for tips on how not to be a "hypocrite"? I've personally used Angelisa Almanzar's program, which has helped me immensely. I'm just throwing her name in there just in case you're interested.

 

[RocStar]

The only boundaries you control are your own.

 

[Fine 4s]

@C@ssandr@

Great advice! I was cracking up at 'get a life' because I was sooo jealous of my exe's life and the last homebody I dated was too boring.
You are right about the stories that I hear influencing me.
I know enough about LOA to know that I'm giving into lots of negative beliefs so I need to work on that.
Can you share more about Angelisa's program?

 

[C@ssandr@]

@Fine 4s I copied and pasted myself from another thread:

The program I'm using is by the lesser known Angelisa Almanzar and shares philosophies with Katarina Phang. inner work, healing, leaning back and mirroring...just to name a few concepts.

Fyi, Angelisa Almanzar is similar to Katarina. This is a program I've actually used.

There are 6 audio modules and a workbook. She will also add you to the fb group so that you can ask her and other godesses for clarity or perspective. The program isnt cheap, but the info is worth it (>$1000)

http://www.allheartcoach.com

 

[MissNina]

Varies from relationship to relationship and, the longer you are with your partner, you'll start to craft your own boundaries together as a couple. Our boundaries Year 1 are totally different approaching Year 3. We know what's pushing it automatically Bc we know each other so well and have unofficial rules based on that.

 

[ScorpioBeauty09]

I think the key is that you only partner with a person who has similar boundaries, priorities, and values as you. They can and should have their own interest, hobbies, friends, etc. but for the most part you have to be on the same page about boundaries. IMO people with loose boundaries are scary. People with too high boundaries aren’t fun and hard to get to know. People with inconsistent boundaries are scary too.

Figure out who you are and what you want and don’t settle. Trying to make an adult adapt to our boundaries is crossing their boundaries, imposing our will and likes and dislikes on them. So I guess I’m saying that I think compatibility is one the most important criteria for a long term relationship.

I agree. The bolded is especially true.

With the last guy I dated, before it ended I was beginning to notice points of incompatibility. Our first dates were filled with conversation and I felt like we were getting to know each other. But then our dates always involved something that had our attention on it rather than each other. Like bowling, going to the Color Factory or going to a jazz club. It's not that I don't like these things, I do and one of the reasons I liked him was doing them because I'd been kinda closed off for a while. We weren't having deep conversations to build emotional intimacy. In fact, the last deep conversation we had happened begrudgingly on his part and he ended it when I wanted it to continue. Almost like it was getting too deep for him. I didn't realize it at the time though. I noticed on his social media he was always going to bars and concerts

I've talked with men who'll stay on the phone with me until 2am when they're tired but they liked talking to me so much they didn't care, they told me this from their own mouths. I realized I'm a person who values good, deep conversation above all else. The first time I fell in love was by walking and talking with a man around a city for hours on end to the point where we got lost and we asked each other "where are we going?" and we're like "I was following you." Granted it was a foreign city, but still.

I'm a bit of a contradiction because I'm a Quality Time person but I'm also an introvert with a rich inner life. I get annoyed when I don't get alone time and I get annoyed when I don't get time with my loved ones. So I need a man with his own thing, because I have my own thing. But I also need a man who makes time for me and for us.