Do you think there is a really difference?

[NewYorkgyrl]

I have a friend that is in Law School. She says that she wants to go natural but that it would not be a smart thing for her to do #1 because she will have to go on interviews and #2 that in the career it is not really accepted.

She says that there are girls in her school that are natural, but that they wear their hair straight 100% of the time. (And we all know how I feel about ME and straightening MY hair)

Anyway as most of you guys know I am a medical school student. So she tells me that it is ok for me to be natural because I am going to be a doctor and being a doctor with natural hair is not looked down upon.

Is there really a difference between the 2 professions when it comes to natural hair? Will one profession get more heat/bad remarks/have more issues than the other?

What would be your first impression if you met with your lawyer and they were natural? What would be your first impression of your doctor if she was natural?

***When I say natural I do not mean hair that is pressed/flat ironed etc... I am talking about twist out, twists, buns, low pony puffs, etc....... (non heat requiring hair styles)


Also which natural hair styles do you feel are inappropriate for me to wear on my clincial rotations starting in July. Which are inapproproate for my residency interviews in a couple years? And which hair styles are inappropriate to wear once I am a doctor and working in the hospital.

(Sorry for all the questions but I think they will cover all the bases)
Thanks ladies in advance!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[natstar]

I really dunno for sure but I am guessing- I wouldn't wear styles that draw too much attention to me like huge fros etc. on interviews. But once you get in, feel free to do what you want-as long as it's neat and professional to you.

I honestly don't care too much about hairstyles of professionals as long as it's not really over the top that it scares me. There are such a variety of styles, it would not phase me. As long as the doctor or lawyer knows their stuff, listens to my concerns and respects me, I have no problems.

ETA: For some reason, I get a more conservative vibe from the legal profession, but I am probably worng. I guess it depends on where u work.

 

[kblc06]

I'm a med/pre-med student as well and I have friend whose poli-sci/law-we're both natural and she has lock and recently got accepted into law school with them so NO I don't think it depends on your profession. I also got a job at the med center doing transcription work while at school and I interviewed with my hair in a pony-puff.

Overall appearance would be the main factor in how I would perceive ANYONE of any profession. Well groomed hairstyles (braids, twists, twist & braid outs, wash n gos are all acceptable IMO)

 

[naturalmanenyc]

Hair is not the only concern. I am an attorney and I still recall each & every time that I was thought to be the secretary or paralegal at meetings.....and even once the IT person at a CLE class that I was helping to teach. It was not because of my hair, which had been weaved to BSL at the time, but because I am a Black woman. When going through on campus interviewing, I purposely took out my braids and had my hair straightened.

I have to admit though that I steered clear of certain styles due to the work place perception. I am not with that firm any longer so I do much more with my hair now. I did a braid out a few weeks ago and everyone at the office came up to me to say they like my new hair cut. lol lol lol

 

[ravenmerlita]

Hair is not the only concern. I am an attorney and I still recall each & every time that I was thought to be the secretary or paralegal at meetings.....and even once the IT person at a CLE class that I was helping to teach. It was not because of my hair, which had been weaved to BSL at the time, but because I am a Black woman. When going through on campus interviewing, I purposely took out my braids and had my hair straightened.

I have to admit though that I steered clear of certain styles due to the work place perception. I am not with that firm any longer so I do much more with my hair now. I did a braid out a few weeks ago and everyone at the office came up to me to say they like my new hair cut. lol lol lol

ITA with Reg's wife -- it is often more than hair. I look younger than my age and I get mistaken for the secretary, assistant even a student sometimes. I am fortunate because the people who work with me will introduce me as "this is our boss." I still get asked to go get coffee a lot.

As far as hair is concerned, I would not have a negative impression of my doctor or lawyer if they have natural hair. I have several very good friends who are lawyers. One is a sole practitioner who started as a prosecutor and now does defense work. She's had some high-profile clients and her credentials speak for her. Another friend is of counsel at a fortune 500 company. She has just transitioned from pony-puff styles to locs. Both women wear their hair in well-groomed styles and both dress really well.

Also, I should mention that both of these women are "mid-career" professionals so they already have great resumes and no longer seem to worry about perceptions of their hair. I remember though the struggle that one went through when she was coming out of law school with natural hair. Basically, she perceived that she was going to have a hard time (and the students in her law school gave her a hard time while in school). She worried constantly about it, but it didn't turn out that way. She got a very competitive clerkship and then the fortune 500 job.

I think whether you wear your hair natural or straight, people who want to discriminate against African American women will find a reason to do it. Even so, I have seen women with beautiful natural hair in all kinds of positions and I think (I hope) that as time moves on, women won't have to even consider the effect of natural hair on their job-chances.

 

[princess me]

i wish i could muster up the guts to go natural but my parents tell me that it could be perceived as unprofessional and that i should wait until i am well-set in a field or completely armed with a degree...

I also think it matters what type hair you have. I think people with 2 or 3 types hair can pull of the natural look professionally more than someone with 4b hair... Thats just my opinion....

 

[cheetarah1980]

To be honest, the only people who seem to view natural hair as unprofessional are other black people. It's not the texture of the hair that makes someone appear unprofessional, it's the style. My natural hair can be styled into a chic chignon just as easily as my straight hair was. Of course I wouldn't wear a huge puff or fro on an interview or to a meeting. I keep the styles simple and controlled. A neat TWA is no more eye catching than a white woman's ponytail. Natural hair really is the least of our worries in the work place.

 

[♦K.O♦]

As long as the style is conservative, there shouldnt really be a problem.

Big free flowing twistouts or wash and gos dont really scream conservative. But natural hair in a low ponytail or bun does.

 

[NewYorkgyrl]

As long as the style is conservative, there shouldnt really be a problem.

Big free flowing twistouts or wash and gos dont really scream conservative. But natural hair in a low ponytail or bun does.

I guess that means my twist out pony is a no go. (Sigh) So I guess I will be wearing buns when I am doing my rotations starting in July

I hope I gain more length by that time so I can get my hair into a decent bun.

 

[NewYorkgyrl]

So is everyone saying that there is no difference between the 2 professions?

 

[belleama]

So is everyone saying that there is no difference between the 2 professions?

I think there is a huge difference. Medical professionals IMHO tend to be alot more casual than those in the legal profession. I would say that as a medical professional you have a lot more leeway regarding your appearance so I do believe the hair thing would matter more for her than you.

 

[glamazon386]

I think there is a huge difference. Medical professionals IMHO tend to be alot more casual than those in the legal profession. I would say that as a medical professional you have a lot more leeway regarding your appearance so I do believe the hair thing would matter more for her than you.

I would agree.

 

[envybeauty]

I'm a med/pre-med student as well and I have friend whose poli-sci/law-we're both natural and she has lock and recently got accepted into law school with them so NO I don't think it depends on your profession. I also got a job at the med center doing transcription work while at school and I interviewed with my hair in a pony-puff.

Overall appearance would be the main factor in how I would perceive ANYONE of any profession. Well groomed hairstyles (braids, twists, twist & braid outs, wash n gos are all acceptable IMO)

getting accepted into law school is nothing because it is a paper process and they will accept most anyone with the right grades, etc.

getting a job at a good law firm is a different matter than getting accepted into law school.

 

[neonbright]

I can't say personally that there is no difference. But I can say my cousin who is natural is an attorney for a major law firm in New York, she started there natural and no she didn't interview with her hair straight. But I do believe it depends on the firm, how you where your hair and carry yourself.

 

[glamazon386]

getting accepted into law school is nothing because it is a paper process and they will accept most anyone with the right grades, etc.

getting a job at a good law firm is a different matter than getting accepted into law school.

I would agree. And I think some people view locs and loose natural hair differently. A lot of people feel that if you are going to wear your hair natural the only acceptable options are a TWA or locs. Both of the those styles keep the hair pretty contained.

 

[Esq.2B]

I'm in law school at the moment. Last year when a few of us students were interviewing for summer positions at major NYC firms. One of the professors (who is a black woman and natural) advised one of the students, a natural black girl, to either straighten her hair or put in in a pony tail and bun it during the interviews.

Like another poster said, getting into law school isn't the issue, it's getting a job afterwards. Some of these firms deal strictly with high profile clients so they're very concerned with outward appearance and perception.

So if she's going for one of those types of jobs, it might be an issue. I'm not saying it definitely will be an issue. I'm just saying that it could be one.

Also, we have to acknowledge that some "others" think that a sister with natural hair could only mean one thing-millitant. So outwardly, they might say it's about looking "professional" when inside they're really just intimidated.

With the medical profession, one might be dealing with clients from all walks of life. Also many doctors keep their hair bunned up or in a pony tail of some sort for hygienic purposes. So I don't think it would be as much of an issue.

Lawyers sometimes have to appear in court and/or participate in negotiations, meetings, etc with CEO's of Exxon or whomever. I was just reading an article about NYC firms and how some of them expect their associates to wear $2500 Nanette Lapore suits. It's as if these firms think that their image validates them for the major corporations/celebs that they cater to.

 

[NewYorkgyrl]

I was just reading an article about NYC firms and how some of them expect their associates to wear $2500 Nanette Lapore suites. It's as if these firms think that their image validates them for the major corporations/celebs that they cater to.

DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I'm sure that "those" people don't think that being natural with 2 stand twists or twist outs will complete the look (at least the look they want)

 

[Esq.2B]

Hmmm...I'm wonder.

I think your hair in your siggy is pretty. I don't see why something like that would be a problem. "Others" would probably just accept it as you having curly hair.

I'm thinking something like a puff in a ponytail or an afro might put them off a little bit. Get them all scared like someone is about to start a revolution. Some don't even like braid styles or locks. Though I think firms tend to let up on the locks if they are small and neat.

But braids and/or afro puffs. I don't think they like them.

It's really a shame. But they have a similar policies for employees at the Six Flags in the DC area. When I lived out there, I remember it being a big fuss. Oh and I recall hearing that Hampton University had a similar policy for their student body. And that it was an issue when someone came to do a speech. If someone knows the specifics, please feel free to correct me or refresh my memory.

 

[Chromia]

I think there is a huge difference. Medical professionals IMHO tend to be alot more casual than those in the legal profession. I would say that as a medical professional you have a lot more leeway regarding your appearance so I do believe the hair thing would matter more for her than you.

I agree with this. Medicine seems to be more casual.

There's a male lawyer I've seen on my local news who has long dreadlocks.

I was curious so I did a google search:

Check out the President of the Association of Black Women Physicians, Dr. LaTanya Hines! Her picture is at www.blackwomenphysicians.org.

Black Women Lawyers Association of Los Angeles....I see a twa and braids...

pic at Georgia Association of Black Women Attorneys

 

[*Luscious*Locked*Doc]

I guess I'm going to be the odd one out because I disagree but this is only based on my experience. I go to a VERY conservative medical school and in general they go for the buttoned-up sleek look, professional dress for hospital presentations etc....in this atmosphere I have a very hard time getting away with anything that doesn't look clean cut or neat i.e. a bun or pulled back hair. It's also been frowned upon white and black student women to wear long hair down in the hospital. I wore a braidout with a silk patterned scarf (week 13 stretching my relaxer so I can't really do my flexi/rollersets anymore) to school and I got tons of non-positive comments about wearing my hair in that manner not nasty just not positive even though I've been complimented on this same style tons before.

I also think it has a lot to do with the specialty that you choose to enter as medical professional - I want to be a surgeon. This is field is hard enough to navigate as a women let alone a black women rocking the natural look i.e. non-traditional. I'm just giving my honest opinion because I think the atmosphere that you work in as a future physician can determine much of the response that you receive about your hair and general appearance. Again I go to a VERY conservative institution - I was informed prior to my interview that it general it was more acceptable for a woman interviewee to wear a skirt suit rather than a pants suit..... I would definitely never wear my hair in anything but a bun for residency interviews. I also agree that in general with lawyers the clean look is MUCH more preferable than in medicine because they have to appear in court and even though people don't want to admit it first impressions in terms of appearance have a way determining someone's initial assessment of a person.

 

[SleepyJean]

I have a friend that is in Law School. She says that she wants to go natural but that it would not be a smart thing for her to do #1 because she will have to go on interviews and #2 that in the career it is not really accepted.

She says that there are girls in her school that are natural, but that they wear their hair straight 100% of the time. (And we all know how I feel about ME and straightening MY hair)

Anyway as most of you guys know I am a medical school student. So she tells me that it is ok for me to be natural because I am going to be a doctor and being a doctor with natural hair is not looked down upon.

Is there really a difference between the 2 professions when it comes to natural hair? Will one profession get more heat/bad remarks/have more issues than the other?

What would be your first impression if you met with your lawyer and they were natural? What would be your first impression of your doctor if she was natural?

***When I say natural I do not mean hair that is pressed/flat ironed etc... I am talking about twist out, twists, buns, low pony puffs, etc....... (non heat requiring hair styles)


Also which natural hair styles do you feel are inappropriate for me to wear on my clincial rotations starting in July. Which are inapproproate for my residency interviews in a couple years? And which hair styles are inappropriate to wear once I am a doctor and working in the hospital.

(Sorry for all the questions but I think they will cover all the bases)
Thanks ladies in advance!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What would be your first impression if you met with your lawyer and they were natural? What would be your first impression of your doctor if she was natural?

I would think she was approachable, and I would probably tell her, "I like your hair."

Also which natural hair styles do you feel are inappropriate for me to wear on my clincial rotations starting in July. Which are inapproproate for my residency interviews in a couple years? And which hair styles are inappropriate to wear once I am a doctor and working in the hospital.

I don't think they're inappropiate at all.

 

[NewYorkgyrl]

I also agree that in general with lawyers the clean look is MUCH more preferable than in medicine because they have to appear in court and even though people don't want to admit it first impressions in terms of appearance have a way determining someone's initial assessment of a person.

And by CLEAN LOOK do you mean relaxed?????????


Or do you mean strictly wearing a bun. Because I don't know that many white people in law school who wear buns...

 

[MissLawyerLady]

I'm an attorney and an adjunct law professor. I can't speak about the medical profession, but I do think some law firms may frown on what is perceived to be "unconventional" dress/hair.

However, like Reg's Wife said I've gotten more stares, etc. from being a black woman in the legal profession than anything else. I've been ignored by white male lawyers (idiots) or they give me the "I'm shocked you're black" look. I've also been mistaken for a paralegal/secretary and asked where the coffee/bathroom is, etc.!

My hair styles are conservative- buns, bobs, pageboys-just because that's my style. I've been an attorney long enough (I went to law school immediately after college) that I pretty much wear what I want - within professional bounds- and I'm a little more fashion forward than most female lawyers who practice in my very conservative geographical location (I'll wear an open-toe, slingback, stiletto, with a cute skirt suit, in a hot minute- !).

You have to basically know who you are interviewing/working for. I say, if in doubt go the conservative route first and then once you're in, and you've proven your ability, you can do your own thang!

 

[*Luscious*Locked*Doc]

And by CLEAN LOOK do you mean relaxed?????????


Or do you mean strictly wearing a bun. Because I don't know that many white people in law school who wear buns...

Not necessarily relaxed but definitely constrained and pulled back into a bun, and yes you are right I rarely see that many white female law students including my old roommate wear their hair up at ALL - not even when she went to court! I think it would be a shame for you to relax or straighten (flat-iron) unnecessarily and for the record I love you hair! I will give you a good example of what I deal with in my school.

Me: I'm thinking about going natural and just rocking my real hair texture
Classmate (black female): Urm I don't think that's a good idea
Me: Why I think it would look cute
Her: Well honestly people will perceive you differently and you may not look as professional
Me: That's ridiculous I'm a serious student XYZ
Her: It's been my experience that natural hair in this type of environment hasn't been well received. Plus don't you want to be a surgeon?
Me: What does that have to do with it?
Her: You'll see (gives me knowing look)
ME: Oh
Another colleague (black female): Yeah and anyway if you cut your hair you'd look like a boy...and I'd make fun of you behind your back, but as a friend I can tell you that to your face
Me: Nice

Like I said it really depends on the environment but again I would NOT do interviews with my hair down or in a non-conservative style here.

 

[NewYorkgyrl]

Not necessarily relaxed but definitely constrained and pulled back into a bun, and yes you are right I rarely see that many white female law students including my old roommate wear their hair up at ALL - not even when she went to court! I think it would be a shame for you to relax or straighten (flat-iron) unnecessarily and for the record I love you hair! I will give you a good example of what I deal with in my school.

Me: I'm thinking about going natural and just rocking my real hair texture
Classmate (black female): Urm I don't think that's a good idea
Me: Why I think it would look cute
Her: Well honestly people will perceive you differently and you may not look as professional
Me: That's ridiculous I'm a serious student XYZ
Her: It's been my experience that natural hair in this type of environment hasn't been well received. Plus don't you want to be a surgeon?
Me: What does that have to do with it?
Her: You'll see (gives me knowing look)
ME: Oh
Another colleague (black female): Yeah and anyway if you cut your hair you'd look like a boy...and I'd make fun of you behind your back, but as a friend I can tell you that to your face
Me: Nice

Like I said it really depends on the environment but again I would NOT do interviews with my hair down or in a non-conservative style here.

WOW girl!


I am sending u a PM...

 

[cheetarah1980]

Not necessarily relaxed but definitely constrained and pulled back into a bun, and yes you are right I rarely see that many white female law students including my old roommate wear their hair up at ALL - not even when she went to court! I think it would be a shame for you to relax or straighten (flat-iron) unnecessarily and for the record I love you hair! I will give you a good example of what I deal with in my school.

Me: I'm thinking about going natural and just rocking my real hair texture
Classmate (black female): Urm I don't think that's a good idea
Me: Why I think it would look cute
Her: Well honestly people will perceive you differently and you may not look as professional
Me: That's ridiculous I'm a serious student XYZ
Her: It's been my experience that natural hair in this type of environment hasn't been well received. Plus don't you want to be a surgeon?
Me: What does that have to do with it?
Her: You'll see (gives me knowing look)
ME: Oh
Another colleague (black female): Yeah and anyway if you cut your hair you'd look like a boy...and I'd make fun of you behind your back, but as a friend I can tell you that to your face
Me: Nice

Like I said it really depends on the environment but again I would NOT do interviews with my hair down or in a non-conservative style here.

Notice how that conversation was between you and another black female. The people who hold the majority of decision making positions in conservative law firms are white. If you have the same conversation with them they probably won't even know what you're talking about. Unless the hairstyle is extreme or attention getting, they really will not notice if your texture is kinky or straight.

 

[Esq.2B]

And by CLEAN LOOK do you mean relaxed?????????


Or do you mean strictly wearing a bun. Because I don't know that many white people in law school who wear buns...

I think she means what "others" perceive as being "clean cut."

And you must keep in mind that law school and being a practicing lawyer have two different standards. People walk around law school sometimes looking like they just rolled out of bed or came from the club. You wouldn't really catch that in a law firm.

And keep in mind that many law firms, have different standards. The Big higher paid $160K starting firms would probably have more strict standards than a 5 attorney small firm.

 

[Esq.2B]

I'm an attorney and an adjunct law professor. I can't speak about the medical profession, but I do think some law firms may frown on what is perceived to be "unconventional" dress/hair.

However, like Reg's Wife said I've gotten more stares, etc. from being a black woman in the legal profession than anything else. I've been ignored by white male lawyers (idiots) or they give me the "I'm shocked you're black" look. I've also been mistaken for a paralegal/secretary and asked where the coffee/bathroom is, etc.!

Oh no. I would be too THROUGH!

 

[dinaaike]

This is a really interesting question. There have been some really interesting answers.

First off I would say that appearance is something everyone is judged by. The books 'Dress for Success' by John Molloy and 'Success' by Michael Korda were originally intended for professional white males. Those books told up and coming men what the proper uniform was, why a five-o'clock shadow is unacceptable, how to avoid picking a tie that made them look like the help, and why they should NEVER wear green.

There is an acceptable uniform for everyone. I'm not sure how it developed, or who it originated to placate, but it's there. I have a hard time believing that it is primarily blacks that have an opinion about how blacks should look. More likely, I think, it is primarily blacks who are willing to honestly state how other blacks should look to be most accepted.

If you don't look sleek, you won't fit the bill in some environments. There are "old boys club" networks where women have only recently gotten accepted. To be a woman, and a non-white one at that, is just barely becoming mainstream. To be a non-white woman with an untraditional look is still a bit too much to stomach for some people. Can you imagine Condi Rice with a fro? A twist-out maybe, but a fro...?

IMO, a doctor would have an easier time with image because they must only impress you with their knowledge. While it helps if they look smart, if you come away healed, they're great! A lawyer has to impress a room full of strangers before they open their mouth. They must convey believability and trust, and lots of people don't trust what they see as unusual.

Big fluffy curly hair will never be sleek IMO. It is like waist-length hair. It can be sexy, eye-catching, gorgeous, and fascinating, but not professional. The male mind pigeon-holes things for faster processing. It's why they don't talk as much about things; they have processed it and closed the case. A woman can be professional and capable, or she can be gorgeous and suitable for something else. But the male mind has a hard time putting the two under the same label, because what they find distracting, they can not take seriously.

A big fluffy curly fro would be distracting. A low-cut top would be distracting. Bantu knots would be distracting. A mini skirt would be distracting. And I think it's safe to say that long long hair is distracting to all of us . So before you straighten you hair, look at your finished product objectively and ask yourself if there is anything about you (anything easily changeable besides your posture or confidence) that would make you stand out in the room.

You can't be the only lion in a room of hyenas and expect to be accepted as "one of the crowd". There is a common uniform in any environment. Next time at work, look around and find out what it is. Are there lots of jeans beneath the smocks? Is everyone in khakis? Are they wearing t-shirts or polo shirts? The closer you come to matching that uniform, the more you will be seen as just "one of the crowd". Once in the click, promotions are easier, and when you're close enough to the top (and you'll know when you get there) you can wear sweat pants without anyone saying a word!

And that's my .

 

[glamazon386]

This is a really interesting question. There have been some really interesting answers.

First off I would say that appearance is something everyone is judged by. The books 'Dress for Success' by John Molloy and 'Success' by Michael Korda were originally intended for professional white males. Those books told up and coming men what the proper uniform was, why a five-o'clock shadow is unacceptable, how to avoid picking a tie that made them look like the help, and why they should NEVER wear green.

There is an acceptable uniform for everyone. I'm not sure how it developed, or who it originated to placate, but it's there. I have a hard time believing that it is primarily blacks that have an opinion about how blacks should look. More likely, I think, it is primarily blacks who are willing to honestly state how other blacks should look to be most accepted.

If you don't look sleek, you won't fit the bill in some environments. There are "old boys club" networks where women have only recently gotten accepted. To be a woman, and a non-white one at that, is just barely becoming mainstream. To be a non-white woman with an untraditional look is still a bit too much to stomach for some people. Can you imagine Condi Rice with a fro? A twist-out maybe, but a fro...?

IMO, a doctor would have an easier time with image because they must only impress you with their knowledge. While it helps if they look smart, if you come away healed, they're great! A lawyer has to impress a room full of strangers before they open their mouth. They must convey believability and trust, and lots of people don't trust what they see as unusual.

Big fluffy curly hair will never be sleek IMO. It is like waist-length hair. It can be sexy, eye-catching, gorgeous, and fascinating, but not professional. The male mind pigeon-holes things for faster processing. It's why they don't talk as much about things; they have processed it and closed the case. A woman can be professional and capable, or she can be gorgeous and suitable for something else. But the male mind has a hard time putting the two under the same label, because what they find distracting, they can not take seriously.

A big fluffy curly fro would be distracting. A low-cut top would be distracting. Bantu knots would be distracting. A mini skirt would be distracting. And I think it's safe to say that long long hair is distracting to all of us . So before you straighten you hair, look at your finished product objectively and ask yourself if there is anything about you (anything easily changeable besides your posture or confidence) that would make you stand out in the room.

You can't be the only lion in a room of hyenas and expect to be accepted as "one of the crowd". There is a common uniform in any environment. Next time at work, look around and find out what it is. Are there lots of jeans beneath the smocks? Is everyone in khakis? Are they wearing t-shirts or polo shirts? The closer you come to matching that uniform, the more you will be seen as just "one of the crowd". Once in the click, promotions are easier, and when you're close enough to the top (and you'll know when you get there) you can wear sweat pants without anyone saying a word!

And that's my .

I agree with this whole post. I wouldn't want something as trivial as my hair to hinder my career. Especially when I'm first starting out.