Divorce! It's Good for the Children!

yardyspice

Well-Known Member
Divorce! It's Good for the Children!

When I asked my older daughter what she thought of my divorce from her father (she is 32), she said, "Do you really think I wish we had remained in that suffocating little four-person family?" But my daughter is a pro-divorce radical. Even as a teenager, when she dated boys from nuclear families, she was open about how dull their lives were compared to ours--always the same few people sitting around after dinner, no step-brothers and sisters, half-brothers and sisters, foster brothers and sisters. Here we were with an extended family and none of the parents had had to defy the prescriptions of Zero Population Growth (she is strict about over-population). It was divorce that gave her the tribe of peers that she wanted, and she has never seen a downside.
I will say, though, that when I've defended divorce in the past--notably in an Op-Ed for the New York Times, the response has been outrage. In America, you are never supposed to treat divorce with anything but appalled lamentations. No type of family is better than an intact nuclear family, ever. That millions of Americans have voted with their feet for other types of families is just a sign of cultural failure, or personal failure (the personal failure of the divorced ones, of course--the married ones have at least kept it together, even if...well, I won't go into the cost of keeping it together. I come to bury divorce, not to praise it. Amen.)
So, let me not praise divorce. Let me just offer a few suggestions about how to make it good for the children.

1. No United Front. People are quite frequently eccentric. Grown-ups quite frequently do not agree on basic issues like discipline of the children, the balance of power within the marriage, budgeting, running the household, sex, how the world works, etc. When they attempt to present a united front for the children, this can come to be, basically, a lie, as in "Daddy and I love each other very much, and we agree on everything, especially what is good for you." If the reality is that Daddy and I don't know what in the world we agree on or whether we actually love each other, then the dissonance between the presentation of the united front and what the child sees for him or herself can undermine the child's sense of reality. Once the parents are divorced, Mom and Dad are able to discuss with the children those things that they differ on. That doesn't mean either one can say, "Gee, your ___ is a full-fledged mindless jerk." A better approach: when the child says, "Why does ___ do that?", the parent says. "Well, here is how ___ sees it. Here are some reasons for that. It's possible to agree or disagree with that point of view, but I see it differently, and here's why." A steady diet of this, I think, allows the children not only to differentiate between the parents, but also to differentiate between lots of points of view, and to develop a point of view of his or her own. Most importantly, his or her sense of reality is not undermined by a determined effort on the part of the parents to deny reality.

2. More Siblings. I was an only child. I've known only children. From this experience, I do believe that the children should outnumber the parents. Parents are powerful. Children need friends and allies as well as playmates and antagonists. They need a cohort of peers to liven the place up and counterbalance the parents' ideas. Combined families often get bad reviews, but the family my children got when they traded away "the suffocating four-person" nuclear one is one that has benefited all of them. My daughters got step-siblings with whom they have lifelong relationships and a half-brother they love, and my son got an older step-brother who has been an excellent example for him, and a good friend. The only siblings I have are half-siblings. My nuclear family would have been an extra-suffocating threesome. Instead, I have an interesting brother and sister, in-laws, and darling nephews.

Not everyone in my children's cohort has a relationship with everyone else, but the relationships that do exist are important to them. However, you must let these relationships form independently of you. You can't force the kids to like each other, though you can insist that they be courteous to one another and you can forbid bullying. And why shouldn't you? You wouldn't let them bully school friends, would you?

3. Conflict Management. It's good practice! Nuclear families tend to get into patterns of conflict that last for years and seem like normality. Step-families have to be more self-conscious about conflict management. My most important piece of advice is, the step-parent has to be the good cop and the parent has to be the bad cop, and both members of the couple have to do their jobs. This means that if there is some indulging to be done, the step-parent has to not only be willing to do it, but to do it sincerely. I mean, these are kids! They are not kids you gave birth to, but they are cute and they are inexperienced. They also can be won over with gifts and kindness. There is no reason to take a stand or operate by some authoritarian standard--as an intruder (in the eyes of the children), the step-parent does not have that option. If they behave badly, then the parent's job is to correct them, and the step-parent's job is to discuss this with the parent quietly and reasonably behind closed doors when no one is angry. Forewarned is forearmed--the step-parent has to know going into the family that these conflicts will come up and have a strategy for not losing his/her temper and for persuading the parent to deal with things. The parent has to know that the children and the step-parent have to learn to like each other. Chances are that members of a couple with step-children had plenty of conflict in the marriages they have left, so now's the time to gain some self-knowledge and some new techniques.

4. Love. With luck, we learn more about love as we get more practice. Why divorce the father if we can't learn from it? I never saw an example of conjugal affection and compatibility until my mother married my step-father, and even though that marriage was cut short by his premature death eight years later, I knew what to emulate in my own adulthood. My partner and I offer a model of love that is kind, generous, affectionate, and fun. The children may or may not learn from it, but at least it is visible to them. Maybe, in fact, what it says to them is "if at first you don't succeed, try try again." Is that bad? I don't think so. I would be very sad if one of them got into a bad marriage and gave up.





 
(cont'd)

5. Home. Everyone agrees that home is good and instability is bad. The nuclear family is supposed to offer a domestic haven in a scary world, and maybe it does. And maybe this haven is to be purchased at all costs--this is an individual decision. But any person or two people or three people can make a home, they just have to be willing to do it. When I was a child, my grandmother and grandfather made a part-time home for me, and now I would be sorry to have missed out on that, because they were vivid personalities and I loved them dearly. The home my mother made was appealing, too--she could cook and clean and decorate and welcome my friends. My two homes had two different sets of playmates and two different sets of activities. Because my mother was willing and able, I never felt strange in our two-person home, and because my grandparents were loving and involved, I never felt strange in their (our) home, either. My children were reared by joint custody--sleeping at each parent's house an equal amount of time. That they would feel at home in both houses was our first priority, and, according to them, they did feel at home, and also liked the change of venue. In fact, some of their friends were envious--two rooms? Two sets of Christmas presents? As I said, children are materialistic. The heart is where the home is, but you have to make it welcoming and homey. At the same time, children who have to negotiate two homes can learn to operate with flexibility and imagination. I remember reading in the New York Times that the crop of soldiers and junior officers in Iraq were cannier than their by-the-book superiors. This was attributed to what they had learned from divorce. I kid you not.

Divorce is based on the idea that we marry for love; you can't have one without the other. In cultures where marriage is based on property (women as property, marriage as exchange of property) divorce is much less common and love, at least for men, doesn't have to be (isn't often) a part of marriage (ask your wealthy French uncle if this isn't true). Falling in love is an expression of freedom and so is divorce. Freedom is, as they are always telling us, a responsibility. If we have the freedom to divorce, then we have to use it wisely. So far be it from me to praise divorce. For that, you're going to have to go to my daughter. Or Newt Gingrich.
 
Did you write that??

I found it be very insightful & actually encouraging as I am going through a divorce and find myself wondering (despite knowing I am making the best decision for myself & my kids) if the children will be okay after losing our "nuclear" family.

Thanks for sharing!


I'm sure the article might get stoned by those who never experienced divorced or had the misfortune of being in a bad,bad marriage.
 
I believe it can be beneficial. It doesn't have to be Lifetime Movie Network material with guilt and recriminations.
 
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I'm sure the article might get stoned by those who never experienced divorced or had the misfortune of being in a bad,bad marriage.

Yeah. I agree with what you said as I think the article is stupid. A better option would be for both people to get their acts together, make the decision to cut the crap, and stay married.

I think people are 1) marrying the wrong person to the point where they can't work things out 2) Giving up too easily because their criteria for leaving is like a knee jerk reaction

And maybe this haven is to be purchased at all costs--this is an individual decision.

This is the only part I agree with and this is why a lot of people are divorcing. Either one or both people aren't willing to give what it takes to stay together and create a HAPPY home.
 
The problem I have with the article is that everything it advocates that is good, honorable, and desirable can be achieved within marriage if people have their heads on straight and are willing to work for it. The author acts as if a "nuclear family" is inherently lacking these characteristics.
 
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At age 15, I thought my parents divorce was a good idea....

Now at 25, not so much.

My parents divorce is primarily responsible for a lot of conflict and tension between me and my parents, particularly my mother. I no longer respect her decision to separate from my father, I think it was a selfish decision. She should have stuck with it--through the good and the bad--the whole family would have been happier in the long run as a result.
 
I don't know about all that. Im willing to work on myself and our marriage and he seems to be willing to work on himself. I hate to think of us divorcing because I feel my children deserve their two parents in the house with them. As a product of divorce I don't see any good it did. My parent never should have married in the first place. They were both out there when they divorced so it didn't really change anything, I also don't feel they should not have stayed married so IDK. I guess I'm saying nothing really changed in a positive way for me and my brother, we only took on even more problems.

There are only a few things that would make me divorce my husband. Me being not happy with him is not one of them.
 
Barbiesocialite,

But what about your mom....what level of sacrafice is required for a parent? I don't have insight into your family dynamics as a person that has married for 34 years, I don't have a lot of knowledge about divorce. However, in each of my sisters' cases--it was more than justified.
 
I am sorry to hear that you are going through a divorce but I actually have the opposite view of the article. I think divorce is only an option in abusive relationships, if there is cheating, or where the spouse is an alcoholic, etc. I got the article from Huffpo:

Jane Smiley: Divorce! It's Good for the Children!

bingo. I agree with the bolded, under most other circumstances- of course, stick it out. I don't think divorce should be entered into lightly & neither should marriage.

What I think the article does do, is show that divorce doesn't ALWAYS equate to a life of gloom & doom as some people automatically presume. For those (such as myself) who get divorced because there is no other viable option, it's good to know that life after may not be so bad.

The article is a little bit pretentious I think, as the author seems to be glorifying divorce a tad too much - but other than that, kudos to her showing that there can be some light in the darkness that divorce often creates.
 
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Barbiesocialite,

But what about your mom....what level of sacrafice is required for a parent? I don't have insight into your family dynamics as a person that has married for 34 years, I don't have a lot of knowledge about divorce. However, in each of my sisters' cases--it was more than justified.

I don't know the particulars of why barbiesocialites parent's divorced either, but how much was the mother expected to take?

I know of women now who are married ONLY for the children. They know their husbands are cheating, they take extensive amounts of other violations of the marital agreement for the sake of the children. I don't think that's fair and in the end- how much do the children really benefit?

Of course, barbie's mom might have reasons some would view as not good enough to get divorced- who knows?


ETA: would you mind elaborating on your sisters a little bit? Were they & their children better off after divorce? If so how & why?? Just curious.
 
My daddy was a no good cheating DAWG. I was aware that he was cheating from the time I was about 6. I didn't know what that was but I knew he was doing it. My mom always said that I was an old soul and that I knew things way beyond my years. I am glad that I was raised in a family with a mom and a dad. I'm glad that my mom was a stay at home mom until I was 4.5yrs old maybe a lil older but I wasn't 5. I'm glad that my father was there and was a good provider. I'm glad that I saw my parents be affectionate and go out on dates. I'm glad that we took family trips and went camping at the lake with the dog and other families and I am glad that SHE FINALLY LEFT THAT ARSE AFTER 26YRS. A man that will get his mistress an abortion on your credit card is reckless and has no respect for himself or his family. I could write a book I even remember running into one of his women when I was still small enough to be in the seat of the shopping cart.

You might not agree with the content but sometimes divorce is a good choice. My mom went on to marry again and is very happy and he worships her dirty drawls and has for the last 16yrs.

Anyone know marriage minded men in the Houston area :look: :)
 
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My daddy was a no good cheating DAWG. I was aware that he was cheating from the time I was about 6. I didn't know what that was but I knew he was doing it. My mom always said that I was an old soul and that I knew things way beyond my years. I am glad that I was raised in a family with a mom and a dad. I'm glad that my mom was a stay at home mom until I was 4.5yrs old maybe a lil older but I wasn't 5. I'm glad that my father was there and was a good provider. I'm glad that I saw my parents be affectionate and go out on dates. I'm glad that we took family trips and went camping at the lake with the dog and other families and I am glad that SHE FINALLY LEFT THAT ARSE AFTER 26YRS. A man that will get his mistress an abortion on your credit card is reckless and has no respect for himself or his family. I could write a book I even remember running into one of his women when I was still small enough to be in the seat of the shopping cart.

You might not agree with the content but sometimes divorce is a good choice. My mom went on to marry again and is very happy and he worships her dirty drawls and has for the last 16yrs.

Anyone know marriage minded me in the Houston area :look: :)

Well garsh darnit:nono:.
 
A bit of humor!

Dear Wife,

I'm writing you this letter to tell you that I'm leaving you forever. I've been a good man to you for 7 years and I have nothing to show for it.

These last 2 weeks have been hell. Your boss called to tell me that you quit your job today and that was the last straw.

Last week, you came home and didn't even notice I had a new haircut, had cooked your favourite meal and even wore a brand new pair of silk boxers. You ate in 2 minutes, and went straight to sleep after watching all of your soaps. You don't tell me you love me anymore; you don't want sex or anything that connects us as husband and wife.

Either you're cheating on me or you don't love me anymore; whatever! the case, I'm gone.

Your EX-Husband
P.S. Don't try to find me. Your SISTER and I are moving away to West Virginia together! Have a great life!

********
Dear Ex-Husband,

Nothing has made my day more than receiving your letter. It's true you and I have been married for 7 years, although a good man is a far cry from what you've been. I watch my soaps so much because they drown out your constant whining and griping. Too bad that doesn't work. I DID notice when you got a hair cut last week, but the first thing that came to mind was 'You look just like a girl!' Since my mother raised me not to say anything if you can't say something nice, I didn't comment. And when you cooked my favourite meal, you must have gotten me confused with MY SISTER, because I stopped eating pork 7 years ago.

About those new silk boxers: I turned away from you because the $49.99 price tag was still on them, and I prayed it was a coincidence that my SISTER had just borrowed $50 from me that morning.

After all of this, I still loved you and felt we could work it out. So when I hit the lotto for $ 35 million, I quit my job and bought us 2 tickets to Jamaica But when I got home you were gone.

Everything happens for a reason, I guess. I hope you have the fulfilling life you always wanted. My lawyer said that the letter you wrote ensures you won't get a dime from me.. So take care.

Signed,


Your Ex-Wife, Rich As Hell & Free!


P.S. I don't know if I ever told you this, but my SISTER Carla was born Carl. I hope that's not a problem.
 
I don't know about all that. Im willing to work on myself and our marriage and he seems to be willing to work on himself. I hate to think of us divorcing because I feel my children deserve their two parents in the house with them. As a product of divorce I don't see any good it did. My parent never should have married in the first place. They were both out there when they divorced so it didn't really change anything, I also don't feel they should not have stayed married so IDK. I guess I'm saying nothing really changed in a positive way for me and my brother, we only took on even more problems.

There are only a few things that would make me divorce my husband. Me being not happy with him is not one of them.

wait, dlewis you're confusing me. So, do you wish your parents had stayed together? Or are you glad they split? Or it didn't make a difference either way?
 
Barbiesocialite,

But what about your mom....what level of sacrafice is required for a parent? I don't have insight into your family dynamics as a person that has married for 34 years, I don't have a lot of knowledge about divorce. However, in each of my sisters' cases--it was more than justified.

I don't know the particulars of why barbiesocialites parent's divorced either, but how much was the mother expected to take?

I know of women now who are married ONLY for the children. They know their husbands are cheating, they take extensive amounts of other violations of the marital agreement for the sake of the children. I don't think that's fair and in the end- how much do the children really benefit?

Of course, barbie's mom might have reasons some would view as not good enough to get divorced- who knows?


ETA: would you mind elaborating on your sisters a little bit? Were they & their children better off after divorce? If so how & why?? Just curious.

My mother's perception of "sacrifice" was short-sighted imo...

I also hold the belief that divorce is only acceptable in cases of abuse. Furthermore, I once read an article that said the average person becomes several different people during the course of a marriage. All of that said, people should be more selective in who they choose to marry and procreate with because you will be stuck with that person for the rest of your life.

My mom is probably a lot unhappier now than she was ten years ago. My younger brothers are pretty good black boys, however, I turned out much better than they did. She is struggling to raise them. There's no doubt in my mind, she wouldnt be in the emotional & financial funk she is in had she stayed with my father.
 
My sisters-

One spouse- pedophile--no other explanation required
One spouse- drug addict--kitchen table and chairs hawked for drugs--enough was enough
One spouse-ran off to Cleveland (never paid a dime in child support)
One spouse--alcoholic--but she knew that when she married him and so was she --She got rehabilitated and found the Lord--he didn't. She said it was case of SURVIVOR

Sister-in-Law- Brother would beat the hell of my SIL--she didn't leave him until 40 years later...after he presented with her latest case of an STD.
 
wait, dlewis you're confusing me. So, do you wish your parents had stayed together? Or are you glad they split? Or it didn't make a difference either way?

IDK we were all screwed either way so IDK. I guess they had to divorce for me to see it didn't make it any better for any of us (all parents and children included).
 
I am sorry to hear that you are going through a divorce but I actually have the opposite view of the article. I think divorce is only an option in abusive relationships, if there is cheating, or where the spouse is an alcoholic, etc. I got the article from Huffpo:

Jane Smiley: Divorce! It's Good for the Children!

You know, I always hear about these supposed droves of people who divorce for no reason, but it's just not something I see in my day to day life. I know TONS of divorced individuals and in every single instance there is abuse (verbal or physical), cheating, or addiction (money and/or abuse as byproducts) issues. I don't think people take divorce as lightly as most people seem to believe, but I do think people see the above issues as divorceable offenses more than they did 50 years ago. Maybe I'm just not seeing it in my small world, but I have yet to see a real-life case of someone divorcing just because.

Oh, and I don't particularly agree with the article, just saying.
 
My sisters-

One spouse- pedophile--no other explanation required
One spouse- drug addict--kitchen table and chairs hawked for drugs--enough was enough
One spouse-ran off to Cleveland (never paid a dime in child support)
One spouse--alcoholic--but she knew that when she married him and so was she --She got rehabilitated and found the Lord--he didn't. She said it was case of SURVIVOR

Sister-in-Law- Brother would beat the hell of my SIL--she didn't leave him until 40 years later...after he presented with her latest case of an STD.


see this is what I'm getting at, in cases like this- what sane person or child would not fare better off? In instances like this, certainly the article holds true. Not saying divorce is a cake walk or anything like that because it isn't, but in some instances- life can be better after divorce.

That doesn't seem so hard to understand - at least, IMHO.
 
You know, I always hear about these supposed droves of people who divorce for no reason, but it's just not something I see in my day to day life. I know TONS of divorced individuals and in every single instance there is abuse (verbal or physical), cheating, or addiction (money and/or abuse as byproducts) issues. I don't think people take divorce as lightly as most people seem to believe, but I do think people see the above issues as divorceable offenses more than they did 50 years ago. Maybe I'm just not seeing it in my small world, but I have yet to see a real-life case of someone divorcing just because.

Oh, and I don't particularly agree with the article, just saying.

You know, I'm seriously starting to question the validity of a lot of verbal abuse claims...

My mother claims my dad was verbally abusive. In retrospect, however, I'm starting to see she was/is verbally abusive too.

YOU ATTRACT WHAT YOU ARE. A lot of people have distorted perceptions of self imo. They like to play the victim and not take personal responsibility for themselves and, at times, how they actively contribute to people/things in their immediate environment.

My parents deserved each other....
 
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You know, I'm seriously starting to question the validity of a lot of verbal abuse claims...

My mother claims my dad was verbally abusive. In retrospect, however, I'm starting to see she was/is verbally abusive too.

YOU ATTRACT WHAT YOU ARE. A lot of people have distorted perceptions of self imo. They like to play the victim and not take personal responsibility for themselves and, at times, how they actively contribute to people/things in their immediate environment.
My parents deserved each other....

Thank you.
 
You know, I'm seriously starting to question the validity of a lot of verbal abuse claims...

My mother claims my dad was verbally abusive. In retrospect, however, I'm starting to see she was/is verbally abusive too.

YOU ATTRACT WHAT YOU ARE. A lot of people have distorted perceptions of self imo. They like to play the victim and not take personal responsibility for themselves and, at times, how they actively contribute to people/things in their immediate environment.My parents deserved each other....


Please explain to me how a woman getting her arse beat should take personal responsibility? Other than choosing to date an abusive man?? Sometimes the choice in itself is scewed by the abusers ability to manipulate & hide his craziness. I guess when she comes to the conclusion that he is indeed abusive, she should stick it out & she deserves the blackeyes because she chose to date him. Seriously?

Or, explain how a woman who's husband cheats on her - what is her role in all of that??? She's never cheated but based on the theory that you attract what you are, since he cheated & she attracted him, she automatically becomes a cheater??

That just doesn't make any sense to me. Sometimes, even people with the best & most honest intentions get the short end of the stick in the marriages.
 
Please explain to me how a woman getting her arse beat should take personal responsibility? Other than choosing to date an abusive man?? Sometimes the choice in itself is scewed by the abusers ability to manipulate & hide his craziness. I guess when she comes to the conclusion that he is indeed abusive, she should stick it out & she deserves the blackeyes because she chose to date him. Seriously?

Or, explain how a woman who's husband cheats on her - what is her role in all of that??? She's never cheated but based on the theory that you attract what you are, since he cheated & she attracted him, she automatically becomes a cheater??

That just doesn't make any sense to me. Sometimes, even people with the best & most honest intentions get the short end of the stick in the marriages.

i'm not saying anyone deserves any kinda abuse.... I'm simply stating that f*cked up people attract other f*cked up people.
 
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