Divorce - Interesting observation...

[NoNapNique]

[/b]

Very well written.

I see and have read about a lot of women who want to be martyrs in their bad marriages under the guise of "working out". Praying and suffering for nothing, cause the man sure ain't praying and suffering WITH them....

Sure as hell ain't... He's somewhere thinking, "Yep. I got her just where I want her... Hehehe. I picked the PERFECT woman! She's gonna dive right into all her "praying wives" groups and books, and be too busy to notice that I'm STILL an a**hole"

 

[NoNapNique]

Agreed..but there is this belief primarily amungst older women that you can pray a man into doing/being right.

Silly mortals.

That's like "praying away" natural disasters and disease... it's all been happening since the beginning of time, and will continue to be as humans exist.

 

[shynessqueen]

But see, I don't want a relationship or marriage that just "works"... I want to love and actually be happy, and ENJOY being with someone.

And maybe my standards are too high -- but I'm willing to live with that... Because if I can't be happy, what's the point, when I can do AND feel "average to bad" all by myself? (except MINUS insults, strife, and fighting). Personally, I just feel there are much better things with my life I can be doing than rotting away and aging in a bad marriage. Especially when I have two kids who need me at my best... Not to mention, I suspect I'm not showing my daughter a very good example of what to accept in her OWN relationships if I "stick it out"... She will learn from my example when "enough is enough"... And my son... if I stay, he's only learning how NOT to treat a woman -- he has definitely been within earshot of most of my husband's insults

I'm sorry I didn't finish that post. We had to do a lot of talking and listening to each other. If we where going to end it i didn't want it to end on a bad note. We came to the realization that we are not the same two people who fell in love years ago. I had to get to re-know him and he had to do the same. We fall back in love but much deeper then we where before.

Your standers are not to high you know what you want and won't accept anything less.

 

[FLAME]

I agree. I often wonder what people mean when they say "work it out". Sometimes I think they just mean you need to come to terms with your lot in life and suck it up. Don't ask for better, but just accept it and make allowances so everything seems hunky-dory to all the outsiders and you're playing your role. In the past, I think that was the message because women weren't in a position to rock the boat. It might be more unspoken now, but it's still there.

To me "working it out" is like being in a boat that has sprung a leak. You need someone who is willing to pull their own weight to keep it afloat. If you're trying to bail water and row at the same time while the other person is just sitting there, it's just a matter of time before the boat gets swamped.

Eventually, you either have to let go of the boat or you drown. I think there is truth in the saying "Pray to God, but swim for the shore". To me that means, ask for the strength to keep going against the current and the cold water when your arms and legs want to stop, not for the ability to drown gracefully.[/quote]


wow Myco...I'm sooooo feeling what you said.

 

[shynessqueen]

Wow, at first I was speechless when Nap asked these questions, but you summed it up nicely. Also:

some want you to stay together because of the breakdown of the black family that has ravaged our community or

some believe that your issues can be worked out if they are not that 'serious.' Whew.

You know, I really don't believe that someone can make you happy like you think. Yeah, you may have happy moments, but happiness comes from within. No one can do this for you.

Sometimes you have to sit back and reflect what brought you two together in the first place. Divorce in this day and time is like putting on a pair of slacks, taking those off cause you don't like the way they fit or look on you and reaching for another one. It's that easy.

Whew...my own words...

The bold part was my problem. I had lost my self to my SO and kids. I thought they where supposed to make/keep me happy. I know now that is not true. I am not them and they are not me. I'm apart of them and they are apart of me. There are different parts of me that makes me whole.

I'm a happy person all the time now. Not because I have a great relationship or I'm a great mother to my kids. It's because I know how to make my self happy. which makes me a great mother and a great soon to be wife to my SO.

 

[envybeauty]

Wow...a thread near and dear to my heart....

I agree with so much that has been said.

When I was in my hell of a relationship, the man said all sorts of ish to me. Over time, it got on my nerves and broke my spirit. Although not true, he said to me what yours said to you OP. Well, if you hear a lie often enough, you tend to internalize it as truth.

What was worse was not so much his garbage but the attitude of family. Family would have had me rot in that ish under the guise of being a good woman. It was friend who rescued me. Yup, A FRIEND. A friend who called me one day while I was running errands, told me to pack my ish, and that she was coming to get me that night. Sure enough, my FRIEND showed up to the house before I was able to get there after running errands. We packed up, and I left. Didn't look back. Not even when ole boy talked about how we could work things out, yada, yada.

What pissed me off was FAMILY. Family would have had me lose my mind up in there....because they thought I should be a good woman and stick it out. Family said you commit, you commit. FOR LIFE. Ok, but what if he does....x, what if he treats me like ish, what if he .......

Well, that experience opened my eyes. Before, I would have done anything for ALL of my family. Not now. To this day, I would do most anything for some of my friends and some of my family.

....when family would have had me lose my mind in that relationship, it was a friend who saved me.

ETA: The same family member I regularly consulted about my relationship (as she had been married for almost 30 years) is going through/has been through ish. I found out THAT after my friend saved me. Yup. Her daughter told me that her daddy bought her mommy a new Infiniti after the second baby was born because he cheated on her with his coworker. So when family is telling you to stay and put up with ish....ignore them and go with your heart. Family should enable you to better yourself and not hold you back and see you suffer....simply because THEY want to put up a front.

 

[NoNapNique]

I'm sorry I didn't finish that post. We had to do a lot of talking and listening to each other. If we where going to end it i didn't want it to end on a bad note. We came to the realization that we are not the same two people who fell in love years ago. I had to get to re-know him and he had to do the same. We fall back in love but much deeper then we where before.

Your standers are not to high you know what you want and won't accept anything less.

You are so lucky to have that

My husband never did that, and I exhausted every approach possible. My impression is that because *I* wanted it, he naturally didn't... He was always opposite of anything I said or wanted. Even when it wasn't necessary. Like, if I said it was a nice day out... His response was, "Not really. The wind is blowing, and it's not that sunny."

 

[sunnydaze]

Wow...a thread near and dear to my heart....

I agree with so much that has been said.

When I was in my hell of a relationship, the man said all sorts of ish to me. Over time, it got on my nerves and broke my spirit. Although not true, he said to me what yours said to you OP. Well, if you hear a lie often enough, you tend to internalize it as truth.

What was worse was not so much his garbage but the attitude of family. Family would have had me rot in that ish under the guise of being a good woman. It was friend who rescued me. Yup, A FRIEND. A friend who called me one day while I was running errands, told me to pack my ish, and that she was coming to get me that night. Sure enough, my FRIEND showed up to the house before I was able to get there after running errands. We packed up, and I left. Didn't look back. Not even when ole boy talked about how we could work things out, yada, yada.

What pissed me off was FAMILY. Family would have had me lose my mind up in there....because they thought I should be a good woman and stick it out. Family said you commit, you commit. FOR LIFE. Ok, but what if he does....x, what if he treats me like ish, what if he .......

Well, that experience opened my eyes. Before, I would have done anything for ALL of my family. Not now. To this day, I would do most anything for some of my friends and some of my family.

....when family would have had me lose my mind in that relationship, it was a friend who saved me.

ETA: The same family member I regularly consulted about my relationship (as she had been married for almost 30 years) is going through/has been through ish. I found out THAT after my friend saved me. Yup. Her daughter told me that her daddy bought her mommy a new Infiniti after the second baby was born because he cheated on her with his coworker. So when family is telling you to stay and put up with ish....ignore them and go with your heart. Family should enable you to better yourself and not hold you back and see you suffer....simply because THEY want to put up a front.

That's wonderful you had a true friend like that and sad that your family wasn't supportive.

My family was all for me getting out and I am very thankful for that!

 

[shynessqueen]

You are so lucky to have that

My husband never did that, and I exhausted every approach possible. My impression is that because *I* wanted it, he naturally didn't... He was always opposite of anything I said or wanted. Even when it wasn't necessary. Like, if I said it was a nice day out... His response was, "Not really. The wind is blowing, and it's not that sunny."

Then you have to do what you have to do. When i was trying to work things out with my SO and if he wasn't trying to meet me half way, that would have been the end of us. If you can meet me half way to have it out with me, Then you can meet me half way on trying to work it out with me.

 

[envybeauty]

That's wonderful you had a true friend like that and sad that your family wasn't supportive.

My family was all for me getting out and I am very thankful for that!

It was really one family member in particular that pissed me off. I don't know how other family members felt because I didn't say anything to most everyone else. I am a very private person so I don't tell everyone (including family) my business so to have this person keep telling me to stick it out was just as bad his ish.

 

[MuseofTroy]

Man I really feel for some of you ladies going through divorce. Although I have never been married, I can only imagine the emotional and financial toll divorce has on an individual. Although I think people should be more selective when it comes to picking a mate for marriage. On the other hand if you mate has characteristics that will prove to be unhealthy for your emotional, spiritual, and physical well being then perhaps divorce is the only way to go. Regardless the original poster is still young and can get back on her feet much faster than someone who has invested years and has children with this individual. Regardless I wish you the best of luck and much healing.

 

[sylver2]

Now that I am contemplating divorce (well, not just contemplating -- the papers are already filled out, they're just sitting on my dresser). I have noticed reactions from some friends and family members about my decision. Last year I was separated from him (for a year) then we got back together (long story how that fluke occured). Now that I realized he HAS NOT changed -- he's even worse -- I want out, so that I can get on with my life while I'm still young... and I am just tired of pretending (I've never been good at it). There are alot of details to my story, waaaayyy too much to go into here...

But it seems people *really* only accept your decision if the man is cheating -- and only then if it's habitual...

OR - if the man is beating the @#%$ out of you...

OR - if he's addicted to some type of substance

And everything else can be "worked out".

Why is that???

This is the very first post I read and I am responding b4 reading the rest. But I sooooooooooooooo feel you on this. I'm going thru this now and my family/friends are just not comprehending.

 

[sylver2]

Man I really feel for some of you ladies going through divorce. Although I have never been married, I can only imagine the emotional and financial toll divorce has on an individual. Although I think people should be more selective when it comes to picking a mate for marriage.On the other hand if you mate has characteristics that will prove to be unhealthy for your emotional, spiritual, and physical well being then perhaps divorce is the only way to go. Regardless the original poster is still young and can get back on her feet much faster than someone who has invested years and has children with this individual. Regardless I wish you the best of luck and much healing.

so if it doesn't work out then that means someone wasn't selective in picking their mate.............?

 

[Integrity]

yeah i would have thought evrybody would think they WERE selective at that time. lol

 

[klb120475]

so if it doesn't work out then that means someone wasn't selective in picking their mate.............?

No, that doesn't mean they wasn't selective it just means it didn't work out....IMO.

 

[comike]

Maybe because people feel everything else can be worked out.

I think most things can be worked out....even to some degree infidelity but only if both parties are willing. It just takes a lot of time and effort and unfortunately a lot of people don't want to dedicate that much to do so.

 

[deltagyrl]

I agree. I often wonder what people mean when they say "work it out". Sometimes I think they just mean you need to come to terms with your lot in life and suck it up. Don't ask for better, but just accept it and make allowances so everything seems hunky-dory to all the outsiders and you're playing your role. In the past, I think that was the message because women weren't in a position to rock the boat. It might be more unspoken now, but it's still there.

To me "working it out" is like being in a boat that has sprung a leak. You need someone who is willing to pull their own weight to keep it afloat. If you're trying to bail water and row at the same time while the other person is just sitting there, it's just a matter of time before the boat gets swamped.

Eventually, you either have to let go of the boat or you drown. I think there is truth in the saying "Pray to God, but swim for the shore". To me that means, ask for the strength to keep going against the current and the cold water when your arms and legs want to stop, not for the ability to drown gracefully.

ITA!

 

[deltagyrl]

I think most things can be worked out....even to some degree infidelity but only if both parties are willing. It just takes a lot of time and effort and unfortunately a lot of people don't want to dedicate that much to do so.

ITA with this too.

Sometimes I wonder what people think marriage is. EVERY marriage has storms that will require you to roll up your sleeves and do the work.

I don't think staying means you're weaker than someone who chooses to divorce or vice versa.

 

[MuseofTroy]

so if it doesn't work out then that means someone wasn't selective in picking their mate.............?

Selective Reading 101.
If you reviewed my post holistically you would realize that I was not implying that an individual was not selective if their marriage ends in divorce. HOWEVER there is a strong possibility that as women a lot of us choose to ignore certain traits in a man in hopes that he will change once the marriage certificate is signed. Although I am not saying that applies to the original poster but there are tons of women out there who think back and realize the perhaps they should not have married the person they did after evaluate how this individual conducted themselves before and during the marriage. Unfortunately people do throw common sense out of the window when they are supposedly "in love".

I hope that answers your question especially since you decided to select a small portion of my original post.

FYI don't assume with my post. I don't need to imply anything.

 

[Bublnbrnsuga]

Selective Reading 101.
If you reviewed my post holistically you would realize that I was not implying that an individual was not selective if their marriage ends in divorce. HOWEVER there is a strong possibility that as women a lot of us choose to ignore certain traits in a man in hopes that he will change once the marriage certificate is signed. Although I am not saying that applies to the original poster but there are tons of women out there who think back and realize the perhaps they should not have married the person they did after evaluate how this individual conducted themselves before and during the marriage. Unfortunately people do throw common sense out of the window when they are supposedly "in love".

I hope that answers your question especially since you decided to select a small portion of my original post.

FYI don't assume with my post. I don't need to imply anything.

Muse, by reading most of Sylver2's posts in this forum, I really don't think she was getting smart. I think she was simply trying to create a meaningful dialogue with you , but the way you responded could have lost her and other posters, but carry on.

ETA: I just re-read you post and I was left with the same question Sylver2 had because you didn't explain what you meant by that statement. You left it open for questions.

 

[comike]

ITA with this too.

Sometimes I wonder what people think marriage is. EVERY marriage has storms that will require you to roll up your sleeves and do the work.

I don't think staying means you're weaker than someone who chooses to divorce or vice versa.

My parents have been married for about 40+ years and believe me they went through a period of time when even I didn't think they would make it, but through much prayer and perserverance they did, and my mother states that their marriage is better than it has ever been, but they still have their moments of setting each other out. And, yes...prayer does change things because Lord knows my brother and I (as little kids) were sending up some prayers for our parents to stay together.

 

[Bublnbrnsuga]

My parents have been married for about 40+ years and believe me they went through a period of time when even I didn't think they would make it, but through much prayer and perserverance they did, and my mother states that their marriage is better than it has ever been but they still have their moments of setting each other out. And, yes...prayer does change things because Lord know my brother and I (as little kids) were sending up some prayers for our parents to stay together.

This is a testimony. Thanks for sharing.

 

[MuseofTroy]

Muse, by reading most of Sylver2's posts in this forum, I really don't think she was getting smart. I think she was simply trying to create a meaningful dialogue with you , but the way you responded could have lost her and other posters, but carry on.

ETA: I just re-read you post and I was left with the same question Sylver2 had because you didn't explain what you meant by that statement. You left it open for questions.

I was pretty clear in my post regarding why people should be more selective when picking a mate. I wasn't implying anything. In fact her response almost seemed as if she was putting words in my mouth or perhaps it was her own interpretation of what I meant, so I further elaborated in my second post to clear up any confusion.

 

[Bublnbrnsuga]

I was pretty clear in my post regarding why people should be more selective when picking a mate. I wasn't implying anything. In fact her response almost seemed as if she was putting worrds in my mouth so I further elaborated in my second post to clear up any confusion.

Muse, I really don't think it was that serious. Just knowing her character on the board... she just posed a question... a question that I wanna know the answer to too...

Ladies, so if it doesn't work out, does that mean you weren't selective (or not as selective as you thought) before hand while dating? I mean, we all have flaws, no one's perfect, but how selective must you be to guarentee a long lasting marriage?

 

[MuseofTroy]

Muse, I really don't think it was that serious. Just knowing her character on the board... she just posed a question... a question that I wanna know the answer to too...

Ladies, so if it doesn't work out, does that mean you weren't selective (or not as selective as you thought) before hand while dating? I mean, we all have flaws, no one's perfect, but how selective must you be to guarentee a long lasting marriage?

It's never serious for me. Hopefully my second post will give clarification to those individuals who may have been confused about the meaning of my original comment.

However I will state that I believe many people do get married for the wrong reasons because their judgement is clouded by lust or the idea of being "in love." Further more if people took the time to really get to know their mate and evaluate their relationship objectively I highly doubt they would be in such a rush to get married. My opinion is that if someone's mate or potiential mate is exhibiting undesirable behavior then it might not be a good idea to marry that individual. People don't suddenly change. Everyone has flaws but it is up to both parties to decide if they can deal with those flaws while having a healthy and productive marriage. People need to stop idealizing marriage and realize that it takes a lot of work, no one is perfect, and you have to love even the flaws in your significant other. If you cannot love and accept those flaws then getting into a marriage with that person is not a good idea.

 

[sylver2]

Man I really feel for some of you ladies going through divorce. Although I have never been married, I can only imagine the emotional and financial toll divorce has on an individual. Although I think people should be more selective when it comes to picking a mate for marriage. On the other hand if you mate has characteristics that will prove to be unhealthy for your emotional, spiritual, and physical well being then perhaps divorce is the only way to go. Regardless the original poster is still young and can get back on her feet much faster than someone who has invested years and has children with this individual. Regardless I wish you the best of luck and much healing.

oh
and ((HUGS)) to all the ladies goin thru it.

 

[XXXtacy]

Wow... I must be married to your husband's clone...

According to mine men are only going to use me up and throw me away like a rag doll... and no man will ever respect me... and I was nothing before him, and am never going to be anything. So, after about an hour of putting up with this particular episode of insults (after putting up with them quietly for many years)... I finally told him...

ABOUT HIS SMALL "PACKAGE"!!!

A human being can only take so much before they strike back

That right there is enough for a divorce!!! j/K

Pray first and do what you are lead to do.

 

[MrsHouston]

Muse, I really don't think it was that serious. Just knowing her character on the board... she just posed a question... a question that I wanna know the answer to too...

Ladies, so if it doesn't work out, does that mean you weren't selective (or not as selective as you thought) before hand while dating? I mean, we all have flaws, no one's perfect, but how selective must you be to guarentee a long lasting marriage?

This is my belief as a married woman...you can be as selective as you want when choosing a mate...(b/c I know I prayed and asked the Lord for guidance)...but at the end of the day a married man and woman must chose daily how they will treat their mate and behave within the marriage.

Sadly, some partners change and sometimes for the worst. I know since I've been married I've changed, had some bad changes and some good....but I, nor my husband are the same people we were when we got married. I thank the Lord that our marriage has gotten stronger despite the bad times.

I wish the best for you ladies.

 

[Nay]

I didn't read all of the posts, and I may not be addressing the real crux of this discussion...

BUT the reason I think most people encourage people considering divorce to "work it out" is because I think people find it hard to comprehend that two people can go from being so thrilled to be with each other to later having nothing left but loathing and disgust.

If you look at most couple's wedding pictures, you will see so much love, joy, and promise in those faces, that it's hard to imagine that all of that is dead, buried, impossible to get back to.

So I believe that even though nowadays so many marriages do end in divorce, many people still cling to the notion that something that started out with so much hope and potential surely is worth saving, working through, and doing what it takes to help bring the joy and love back. (I'm one of those romantics).

But, ultimately, we can only live our own lives. None of us knows what is going on in our neighbor's house. It takes two people to shore up and repair that foundation. We all have to live with the decisions we make, and who am I to tell anyone whom they should stay with. Nonapnique, YOU know what YOU have to do. Best wishes to you.

 

[sunnydaze]

Even though I am going through a divorce,I am actually one of those people that believes in trying to work things out unless there is infidelity (more than once, one time may be salvagable), mental/emotional/physical abuse or drug use (with no attempts at getting help).