Divorce - Interesting observation...

[shynessqueen]

wow ok, so you know this is only his attempt to lower your self-esteem and get you to stay with him..................... that small package comment had to be a killer to his

He was trying to control you through mental abuse.

 

[SweetCaramel1]

People are way to hard on men and expect them to come already "ready" and know everything but even after you are married you are STILL learning. He don't just all the sudden know everything and people act like they expect that to be the case. I ono, I am just rambling, but that's how *I* feel.

So I do believe there is a difference between learning how to be married, putting the work in to make it work and truly wanting to change for the sake of your marriage and those folks that just plain out don't care, say they are going to change or evolve and never do no matter what. I.

locsofluv and miss scarlett you ladies are sooooooooooooo on point with this. there is a transitional stage for you and your spouse to go through and actually learn your positions as husband and wife. i believe this is where many marriages go wrong. some men/women are so bullheaded they refuse to make changes to accomodate the marriage. i went through this introductory period too and dh and i had to sit down and have many discussions, many of nights and many of fights to get to where we are now.

 

[FlowerHair]

Sure some things can be worked out... except when you are told to your face "I'm not changing..." and "I don't need peace"

I don't know about some women, but I deserve better than to spend my life with someone whose ONLY purpose is to make it miserable.

Exactly - both have to be willing to work it out, otherwise it will be extremely difficult. Then you will be a single person in a marriage trying to make things work

 

[lexi08]

Your husband's comment is the ONE reason I refuse to get married at this point in my life. I am trying to get on my feet, and I would probably be on the six o'clock news and CNN if a man ever said this to me. I am a Christian, and I tend to believe that divorce should be a last resort for most cases. At the same time, the "carnal" part of me would be ready to tear into anyone who had the audacity to utter those words about me.

I understand what you mean. This is what I am afraid of. I was married and divorced very young which left me a single mother. I received no child support or any other family help so I had to sacrifice even more finiancially to make sure my son had a decent life. He is an adult know and I am not where I want to be financially. I mean I do okay for myself, but I have not purchased a home and I don't have the money in savings and investments that I would like to have.

The men I have dated in recent years are substantially more well off than I am. I just don't want to get married and have some n**** tell me I did not have nothing before I married him...... I went through this to some extent in my very short lived first marriage because I was a student at the time and I was not working. My ex also felt that I should have just kept my mouth shut and put up with his bad treatment because I came from nothing

I refuse to let some arse hole put me down behind crap like that. I have worked to hard to make a life for myself and to maintain my independence financial and otherwise.

 

[shynessqueen]

locsofluv and miss scarlett you ladies are sooooooooooooo on point with this. there is a transitional stage for you and your spouse to go through and actually learn your positions as husband and wife. i believe this is where many marriages go wrong. some men/women are so bullheaded they refuse to make changes to accomodate the marriage. i went through this introductory period too and dh and i had to sit down and have many discussions, many of nights and many of fights to get to where we are now.

You are also on point to. This was something my SO pointed out to me.
That when you are with someone a long time or married you are going to see the other side of that person and that will be the test for y'all relationship.

 

[NoNapNique]

sorry this part was funny. I also think bad sex is an acceptable reason for divorce

And guess what... the ONLY time he EVER took anything back was after I told him his member was small!!! He actually faked an entire "I didn't really mean what I said" "apology" session... Then afterwards said,

"Ok so, now... Did you mean what you said about my...?"

Not even aware that he was making it obvious WHY he was "taking back" what he said... The look on his face -- He was SO desperate to keep his manhood in tact as he awaited my answer. I told him I wasn't ready to take what I said back, and I let him know how transparent his "apology" was.

Never before concerned about apologizing until I hit HIM where it counted and he wanted ME to take it back.

 

[shynessqueen]

Exactly - both have to be willing to work it out, otherwise it will be extremely difficult. Then you will be a single person in a marriage trying to make things work

Sometime change is hard for somepeople.

 

[MissScarlett]

there is a transitional stage for you and your spouse to go through and actually learn your positions as husband and wife. i believe this is where many marriages go wrong. some men/women are so bullheaded they refuse to make changes to accomodate the marriage. i went through this introductory period too and dh and i had to sit down and have many discussions, many of nights and many of fights to get to where we are now.

Now that is a good term...transitional period.

And you're right, I think the breakdown occurs during this time. Also couple that transitional time with the "two years of marriage rule" that people use to have a baby, then comes more changes, the disconnect and a new marriage is really at risk.

 

[Southernbella.]

Now that is a good term...transitional period.

And you're right, I think the breakdown occurs during this time. Also couple that transitional time with the "two years of marriage rule" that people use to have a baby, then comes more changes, the disconnect and a new marriage is really at risk.

That's exactly what happened to us. We got pregnant during the transitional phase (I like that term too), and there was just way too much going on.

But I agree with the other ladies...I don't really believe in divorce either, but you can't make someone change. If they aren't willing to compromise, or in some cases, even acknowledge that they're part of the problem, then you have to do what you have to do. Nobody deserves to be miserable.

 

[Southernbella.]

Funny you say that... Because the kneegrow actually TOLD me (among about a million other put-downs) that since I came from nothing I should have just kept my mouth closed [*about his treatment during the relationship*] and been happy he was putting a roof over my head.

Oh please. I bet he looks down on those other negros who don't take care of home, even though in some ways, he's just as trifling as they are.

 

[Sly]

Funny you say that... Because the kneegrow actually TOLD me (among about a million other put-downs) that since I came from nothing I should have just kept my mouth closed [*about his treatment during the relationship*] and been happy he was putting a roof over my head.

wow. did he really say that. out.loud?!?!?
marriage is no joke. do you stay, do you go, what about the kid(s), the years, the sacrifices, the bills accumulated. wow. just wow.

how do you really get to know someone well enough to say 'yes, i will spend the rest of my life with you . . . for better or worse.'

i have no words . . . thanks for sharing

 

[gloomgeisha]

And guess what... the ONLY time he EVER took anything back was after I told him his member was small!!! He actually faked an entire "I didn't really mean what I said" "apology" session... Then afterwards said,

"Ok so, now... Did you mean what you said about my...?"

Not even aware that he was making it obvious WHY he was "taking back" what he said... The look on his face -- He was SO desperate to keep his manhood in tact as he awaited my answer. I told him I wasn't ready to take what I said back, and I let him know how transparent his "apology" was.

Never before concerned about apologizing until I hit HIM where it counted and he wanted ME to take it back.

Don't you love it when they do that? Tommy will apologize to me and then TELL ME to apologize to him too. I'm like "what?" If I wanted to apologize I would have. He gets his little feelings hurt and then wants me to pretend like what I said was only said in malice.


I feel for you girl and please get out of this. God may ordain marriage, but I don't think he wants people to be miserable just for sake of "saving face." What is this? The Joy Luck Club?

 

[shynessqueen]

wow. did he really say that. out.loud?!?!?
marriage is no joke. do you stay, do you go, what about the kid(s), the years, the sacrifices, the bills accumulated. wow. just wow.

how do you really get to know someone well enough to say 'yes, i will spend the rest of my life with you . . . for better or worse.'

i have no words . . . thanks for sharing

I will say after being with my SO for 12 years I know him to a point to say I want to spend the rest of my life with him. I also understand the we are growing and changing as the years go by. MY SO wasn't the way he is now last year and He may not be the way he is now next year. I'm going to be there for him through all his stages in life. Some changes will be good and some will be bad.

 

[NoNapNique]

locsofluv and miss scarlett you ladies are sooooooooooooo on point with this. there is a transitional stage for you and your spouse to go through and actually learn your positions as husband and wife. i believe this is where many marriages go wrong. some men/women are so bullheaded they refuse to make changes to accomodate the marriage. i went through this introductory period too and dh and i had to sit down and have many discussions, many of nights and many of fights to get to where we are now.

But see, you were lucky... In the 7 years I have known him, I've never been able to have a "discussion" with him. I honestly think in his mind everything has to result in insults and fighting -- there is no such thing as a conversation... And you know what... Even thought people say that comes with the territory. I'm simply not willing to fight -- especially with someone who does not know how to "fight fair". I am a peace-loving person, so I think marriage in general is not for me.

I see your point about "fighting to get where you are now"...

BUT there are two sides to that - Because I've also been shown the "behing the scenes" of it (as told to me by 3 seperate people)... Which is: You fight so hard for so long that the following happens --

#1 You both just get plain tired and "Yes, dear" through everything, even when it eats at your spirit

#2 The years have passed and now two people are at an age where it's like, "Oh, well I'm in my 40's now... may as well stay in it because ain't nothing out there at this age... and I'm all fought out so I don't have the energy to pursue another relationship anyways"

#3 (and this is where I'm at now) You learn the way to keep "peace" is to hardly say anything to each other... Just "two ships" passing all day, in the same house. (That is until my husband purposely picks a fight to disrupt the silence )

 

[Sly]

And guess what... the ONLY time he EVER took anything back was after I told him his member was small!!! He actually faked an entire "I didn't really mean what I said" "apology" session... Then afterwards said,

"Ok so, now... Did you mean what you said about my...?"

Not even aware that he was making it obvious WHY he was "taking back" what he said... The look on his face -- He was SO desperate to keep his manhood in tact as he awaited my answer. I told him I wasn't ready to take what I said back, and I let him know how transparent his "apology" was.

Never before concerned about apologizing until I hit HIM where it counted and he wanted ME to take it back.

good for you, NoNapNique. what an a&%!

MissScarlett, I'm with you, Soror! If it ain't right in the bedroom we got serious pro'lems --'grounds' for sure.

 

[shynessqueen]

But see, you were lucky... In the 7 years I have known him, I've never been able to have a "discussion" with him. I honestly think in his mind everything has to result in insults and fighting -- there is no such thing as a conversation... And you know what... Even thought people say that comes with the territory. I'm simply not willing to fight -- especially with someone who does not know how to "fight fair". I am a peace-loving person, so I think marriage in general is not for me.

I see your point about "fighting to get where you are now"...

BUT there are two sides to that - Because I've also been shown the "behing the scenes" of it (as told to me by 3 seperate people)... Which is: You fight so hard for so long that the following happens --

#1 You both just get plain tired and "Yes, dear" through everything, even when it eats at your spirit

#2 The years have passed and now two people are at an age where it's like, "Oh, well I'm in my 40's now... may as well stay in it because ain't nothing out there at this age... and I'm all fought out so I don't have the energy to pursue another relationship anyways"

#3 (and this is where I'm at now) You learn the way to keep "peace" is to hardly say anything to each other... Just "two ships" passing all day, in the same house. (That is until my husband purposely picks a fight to disrupt the silence )

I use to go at it with my SO for 2 years. I was ready for the relationship to be over. I wasn't in love with him nor did i like him that much. I was getting to the point where i was starting to hate my SO. That man can bring out the worst in me. I ask my self did i do all i could to make our relationship work. The answer was no.

 

[JFemme]

wow. did he really say that. out.loud?!?!?
marriage is no joke. do you stay, do you go, what about the kid(s), the years, the sacrifices, the bills accumulated. wow. just wow.

how do you really get to know someone well enough to say 'yes, i will spend the rest of my life with you . . . for better or worse.'

i have no words . . . thanks for sharing

Marriage, sho nuff, aint NO joke...

I think most of us do the best when can, with what we know, at the time of choosing a mate. But, I also believe you can NEVER really know another person.

The best you can hope is to KNOW you, so that learning curve called life gets smaller each go round.

*this is quite an interesting thread*

Years ago, when me and DH were having issues, I found many of our counselors harbored definite biases. It was thought, that I was asking for to much, and that I should count my lucky stars... straight BS...

I have no idea, these zillion years later, why the taboo against women wanting, expressing, and YES choosing for MORE is so prevelant.

I, for one do not ascribe to this notion. I will forever keep my options open. My one precious life belongs to me....so I get to decide, not society.

 

[klb120475]

My one precious life belongs to me....so I get to decide, not society.

Ditto!!..........

 

[gloomgeisha]

Marriage, sho nuff, aint NO joke...

I think most of us do the best when can, with what we know, at the time of choosing a mate. But, I also believe you can NEVER really know another person.

The best you can hope is to KNOW you, so that learning curve called life gets smaller each go round.

*this is quite an interesting thread*

Years ago, when me and DH were having issues, I found many of our counselors harbored definite bias. It was thought, that I was asking for to much, and that I should count my lucky stars... straight BS...

I have no idea, these zillion years later, why the taboo against women wanting, expressing, and YES choosing for MORE is so prevelant.

I, for one do not ascribe to this notion. I will forever keep my options open. My one precious life belongs to me....so I get to decide, not society.

I LOVE the bolded and agree with your entire post.

 

[avanese]

I completely agree!

you're right. Women 'back in the day'..took alot from men.True we were more limited with our resources and opprotunties but there is also this fear of NOT having a husband. There is still some societal standard that sayes you gotta have a husband, and if he's not a 'good one' somebody's grandma is telling them "wel that's just what men do" and basically as long as you have a piece of man its ok. Some women have been with men 30 years but with about 20 years of unhappiness. Life is too short to be unhappy.

 

[NoNapNique]

I use to go at it with my SO for 2 years. I was ready for the relationship to be over. I wasn't in love with him nor did i like him that much. I was getting to the point where i was starting to hate my SO. That man can bring out the worst in me. I ask my self did i do all i could to make our relationship work. The answer was no.

But see, I don't want a relationship or marriage that just "works"... I want to love and actually be happy, and ENJOY being with someone.

And maybe my standards are too high -- but I'm willing to live with that... Because if I can't be happy, what's the point, when I can do AND feel "average to bad" all by myself? (except MINUS insults, strife, and fighting). Personally, I just feel there are much better things with my life I can be doing than rotting away and aging in a bad marriage. Especially when I have two kids who need me at my best... Not to mention, I suspect I'm not showing my daughter a very good example of what to accept in her OWN relationships if I "stick it out"... She will learn from my example when "enough is enough"... And my son... if I stay, he's only learning how NOT to treat a woman -- he has definitely been within earshot of most of my husband's insults

 

[Southernbella.]

Marriage, sho nuff, aint NO joke...

I have no idea, these zillion years later, why the taboo against women wanting, expressing, and YES choosing for MORE is so prevelant.

The disturbing thing is...I see that from women, just as much as men. I've seen it in comments in other threads, too.

 

[klb120475]

But see, I don't want a relationship or marriage that just "works"... I want to love and actually be happy, and ENJOY being with someone.

And maybe my standards are too high -- but I'm willing to live with that... Because if I can't be happy, what's the point, when I can do AND feel "average to bad" all by myself? (except MINUS insults, strife, and fighting). Personally, I just feel there are much better things with my life I can be doing than rotting away and aging in a bad marriage. Especially when I have two kids who need me at my best... Not to mention, I suspect I'm not showing my daughter a very good example of what to accept in her OWN relationships if I "stick it out"... She will learn from my example when "enough is enough"... And my son... if I stay, he's only learning how NOT to treat a woman -- he has definitely been within earshot of most of my husband's insults

I don't feel your standards are too high. After putting up with a bunch of foolishness for 8 years, I'll be doggon if I go through that mess again in my next relationship. I got tired of going through the motions of being a good wife. Then to make it so bad he wasn't even making an effort to at least go through the motions of being a good husband. My next marriage will definitely be God ordained.

 

[MissScarlett]

good for you, NoNapNique. what an a&%!

MissScarlett, I'm with you, Soror! If it ain't right in the bedroom we got serious pro'lems --'grounds' for sure.

uhh we're not getting married if its not...period.

 

[MissScarlett]

But see, I don't want a relationship or marriage that just "works"... I want to love and actually be happy, and ENJOY being with someone.

And maybe my standards are too high -- but I'm willing to live with that... Because if I can't be happy, what's the point, when I can do AND feel "average to bad" all by myself? (except MINUS insults, strife, and fighting). Personally, I just feel there are much better things with my life I can be doing than rotting away and aging in a bad marriage. Especially when I have two kids who need me at my best... Not to mention, I suspect I'm not showing my daughter a very good example of what to accept in her OWN relationships if I "stick it out"... She will learn from my example when "enough is enough"... And my son... if I stay, he's only learning how NOT to treat a woman -- he has definitely been within earshot of most of my husband's insults

No your standards are not too high. YOu deserve and can get better.

JFEMME....EXCELLENT Advice....

I have no idea, these zillion years later, why the taboo against women wanting, expressing, and YES choosing for MORE is so prevelant.

 

[Bublnbrnsuga]

i guess because it's an oath taken before god until death do you part, for richer or poorer, etc... the offenses you named above are major (not that there aren't others) but i would say those are the most common ones and back in the day people would stay together regardless and work through the problems. that was also back in the day where it seemed you got a man just to get a man. they were the sole provider and women stayed at home and tuffed out, whatever came their way.

even though your family and friends are giving you a hard time i think it's more acceptable to get a divorce today because the sincerity of marriage is not what it used to be.

Wow, at first I was speechless when Nap asked these questions, but you summed it up nicely. Also:

some want you to stay together because of the breakdown of the black family that has ravaged our community or

some believe that your issues can be worked out if they are not that 'serious.' Whew.

You know, I really don't believe that someone can make you happy like you think. Yeah, you may have happy moments, but happiness comes from within. No one can do this for you.

Sometimes you have to sit back and reflect what brought you two together in the first place. Divorce in this day and time is like putting on a pair of slacks, taking those off cause you don't like the way they fit or look on you and reaching for another one. It's that easy.

Whew...my own words...

 

[myco]

you're right. Women 'back in the day'..took alot from men.True we were more limited with our resources and opprotunties but there is also this fear of NOT having a husband. There is still some societal standard that sayes you gotta have a husband, and if he's not a 'good one' somebody's grandma is telling them "wel that's just what men do" and basically as long as you have a piece of man its ok. Some women have been with men 30 years but with about 20 years of unhappiness. Life is too short to be unhappy.

I agree. I often wonder what people mean when they say "work it out". Sometimes I think they just mean you need to come to terms with your lot in life and suck it up. Don't ask for better, but just accept it and make allowances so everything seems hunky-dory to all the outsiders and you're playing your role. In the past, I think that was the message because women weren't in a position to rock the boat. It might be more unspoken now, but it's still there.

To me "working it out" is like being in a boat that has sprung a leak. You need someone who is willing to pull their own weight to keep it afloat. If you're trying to bail water and row at the same time while the other person is just sitting there, it's just a matter of time before the boat gets swamped.

Eventually, you either have to let go of the boat or you drown. I think there is truth in the saying "Pray to God, but swim for the shore". To me that means, ask for the strength to keep going against the current and the cold water when your arms and legs want to stop, not for the ability to drown gracefully.

 

[Twisties]

I agree. I often wonder what people mean when they say "work it out". Sometimes I think they just mean you need to come to terms with your lot in life and suck it up. Don't ask for better, but just accept it and make allowances so everything seems hunky-dory to all the outsiders and you're playing your role. In the past, I think that was the message because women weren't in a position to rock the boat. It might be more unspoken now, but it's still there.

To me "working it out" is like being in a boat that has sprung a leak. You need someone who is willing to pull their own weight to keep it afloat. If you're trying to bail water and row at the same time while the other person is just sitting there, it's just a matter of time before the boat gets swamped.

Eventually, you either have to let go of the boat or you drown. I think there is truth in the saying "Pray to God, but swim for the shore". To me that means, ask for the strength to keep going against the current and the cold water when your arms and legs want to stop, not for the ability to drown gracefully.

Very well written.

I see and have read about a lot of women who want to be martyrs in their bad marriages under the guise of "working out". Praying and suffering for nothing, cause the man sure ain't praying and suffering WITH them....

 

[sunnydaze]

[/b]

Very well written.

I see and have read about a lot of women who want to be martyrs in their bad marriages under the guise of "working out". Praying and suffering for nothing, cause the man sure ain't praying and suffering WITH them....

Agreed..but there is this belief primarily amungst older women that you can pray a man into doing/being right.

 

[vaqtea]

I agree. I often wonder what people mean when they say "work it out". Sometimes I think they just mean you need to come to terms with your lot in life and suck it up. Don't ask for better, but just accept it and make allowances so everything seems hunky-dory to all the outsiders and you're playing your role. In the past, I think that was the message because women weren't in a position to rock the boat. It might be more unspoken now, but it's still there.

To me "working it out" is like being in a boat that has sprung a leak. You need someone who is willing to pull their own weight to keep it afloat. If you're trying to bail water and row at the same time while the other person is just sitting there, it's just a matter of time before the boat gets swamped.

Eventually, you either have to let go of the boat or you drown. I think there is truth in the saying "Pray to God, but swim for the shore". To me that means, ask for the strength to keep going against the current and the cold water when your arms and legs want to stop, not for the ability to drown gracefully.

I love this!