Divorce drama, advice needed

[rabs77]

Ladies I need your advice.

A very good friend of mine is going through some major B.S. and it hurts me because I have no clue what to do and how to help her.

She divorced her husband early 2006. Her ex purchased a car a few months prior to the divorce. The divorce went to court and it was specifically stated in their divorce agreement that she will not be responsible for the car loan.

A few months after her divorce she goes to check her credit and finds the car loan on there. She calls Wells Fargo to find out what’s up and to her surprise she is informed that HER SIGNATURE is on the loan along with his. She asked them to fax her the paperwork and lo and behold her signature was on there. She has no recollection of signing those papers. She was informed that the divorce agreement did not absolve her of the loan responsibility. Her divorce lawyer should have warned her about this, no?

***As a side note her ex had started a business, and she believed there was some shady stuff going on, which is one of the reasons she got a divorce because she did not want to know or get involved. She was under the impression that the car was purchased under the business.***

So she tracked him and the car down in 07 and got the car repossessed. However, there is an additional 10K(or something close) that is owed on the car that needs to be paid. Wells Fargo recently sold the loan to a collections agency and she is now being contacted and harassed by the loan agency. They have also included additional interest. She is ready to break down and settle with them, it's pissing us all off because she is still in residency and can't afford to.

She lives in a different state from her ex so it is almost impossible to track him down. She got hold of him today via phone and tried to reason with him to get her name of the loan. He gleefully informed her that he no longer lives in the country (he claims he is just visiting) so he doesn't give a f* about the loan. She knows he is lying, she believes he is still involved in some shady ish and is staying under the radar.

So far I have done some minor research and found this
http://www.divorcenet.com/states/new_jersey/car_loans_and_divorce

2. The divorce judgment specifies that I am relieved of the joint car loan. However, I have been receiving collection letters from Ford Motor Credit. Should I pay for the joint car loan if my ex-spouse refuses?
When two people apply for joint credit in purchasing a car, they sign a legal agreement to the auto finance company or to the bank agreeing to pay back the debt. If one spouse can’t pay, then the other spouse is responsible. A family court cannot overturn the contract between the spouses unless it is fraudulent or unlawful. A divorce will not invalidate or void an auto loan agreement.
Thus, a divorce judgment cannot relieve a spouse from the financial obligations of a joint car loan. The reason for this harsh rule lies in the fact that both spouses signed a legally binding contract with the car finance company, and the divorce judgment does not amend this contract. An amendment to the car loan requires the agreement of all of the parties, including the auto finance company. The proof of the amendment requires the signature of all of the parties. During the divorce, the auto finance company is not even consulted, and is certainly not a part of the divorce courts; therefore, the original auto loan stands. Consequently, if your ex-spouse does not pay the auto loan that was assigned to him or her in the divorce judgment, you are responsible for it.
In summary, regardless of what the court says or what the divorce judgment specifies, if you signed an auto loan contract to be responsible for payment, then you are still legally responsible for making sure that the payment is made. Moreover, if the auto loan payments are stopped, the lenders can sue you as well.
The reality of the divorce battlefield is that divorces are unpleasant and frequently involve ugly legal wars. It is very common that the credit reports of both spouses are trashed because of the failure to keep up with car loans. This doesn’t have to happen, but it does take some effort from both parties to avoid it.

She plan's on seeking legal advice, however I am posting this here because someone else's experience is always helpful and could point us in the right direction. Has anyone experienced something similar or knows someone who has? Feel free to pm me if you do not want to share in public. What is the best course of action? Does she really have no option but to pay up? I hope I'm making sense, I'm so pissed off!! :heated:

Even if no one can help, this can be a heads up for someone going through a divorce Please make sure you clear up issues like this ahead of time because this situation right here is f*ked up. No one should have to deal with this. If I get my hands on that nicca

 

[sprungonhairboards]

Unfortunately, I think she's going to have to take the loss on this one. She can however sue her ex in small claims after she pays it off, but it's probably more trouble for her than it's worth. Especially since he doesn't care about his credit and she would probably never collect.

 

[ChocalateDiva]

She's probally gonna end up paying a settlement to protect her credit from being ruined.

 

[donna894]

Rabs, you've pulled me out of lurking mode. My first thought was "OMG, not you Rabs!!" I don't have experience in this area, but I listen to Dave Ramsey, a financial expert who has a radio show and a television show on the FOX Business Channel. I've heard him counsel many callers with similar problems. Just because her signature was on the loan papers, doesn't mean she signed them. Her husband probably forged her signature (after all, why would she co-sign anything with him when they divorcing). If she can't get out of the loan, she should be able to negotiate with the credit company, get them to settle for half - its better than nothing. They are going to try to harass and intimidate her to get their money. There are ways to get out of this - I just didn't pay much attention since I'm not in this situation. But I'd advise you to check out the Dave Ramsey website and email him and/or one of his counselors. GL

 

[rabs77]

Unfortunately, I think she's going to have to take the loss on this one. She can however sue her ex in small claims after she pays it off, but it's probably more trouble for her than it's worth. Especially since he doesn't care about his credit and she would probably never collect.

Yes at this point she is weighing her options, and its looking like she is going to have to take a hit financially one way or the other. I just thought it would be a good idea to pick some brains for ideas before she proceeds.

She's probally gonna end up paying a settlement to protect her credit from being ruined.

That sucks

Rabs, you've pulled me out of lurking mode. My first thought was "OMG, not you Rabs!!" I don't have experience in this area, but I listen to Dave Ramsey, a financial expert who has a radio show and a television show on the FOX Business Channel. I've heard him counsel many callers with similar problems. Just because her signature was on the loan papers, doesn't mean she signed them. Her husband probably forged her signature (after all, why would she co-sign anything with him when they divorcing). If she can't get out of the loan, she should be able to negotiate with the credit company, get them to settle for half - its better than nothing. They are going to try to harass and intimidate her to their money. There are ways to get out of this - I just didn't pay much attention since I'm not in this situation. But I'd advise you to check out the Dave Ramsey website and email him and/or one of his counselors. GL

Thanks for coming outta lurk mode. No it's not me, but someone very close to me. I will check out his site.

It's sad because she thought once she was done with the divorce, she was going to be done with him, apparently not. I'm suprised at how often this happens though according to different links online. I just hope my post gives someone else a heads up.

 

[Keen]

You said she took possession of the car. What did she do wit it?

 

[rabs77]

You said she took possession of the car. What did she do wit it?

She was able to find out through friends where her ex was living in 07. She provided his address to the bank, and they went and repo'd the car. She never physically laid hands on the car. The car was sold for less than was owed after it was repo'd. They are holding her responsible for the balance (since they can't get hold of him)

 

[rabs77]

..........

 

[starfish]

She might want to check out creditboards.com. They have great advice in how to deal with various types of collection agencies, as well as examples of letters to use to get them to stop harassing you and pay for deletion settlement letters.

Some folks on those boards even went to court and WON with those collection agencies because the loan contract was with the original creditor, not Uncle Bo Bo's We'll Get You collection agencies. They are the scum of the earth IMO.

HTH!

 

[mscocoface]

Yes at this point she is weighing her options, and its looking like she is going to have to take a hit financially one way or the other. I just thought it would be a good idea to pick some brains for ideas before she proceeds.

That sucks


Thanks for coming outta lurk mode. No it's not me, but someone very close to me. I will check out his site.

It's sad because she thought once she was done with the divorce, she was going to be done with him, apparently not. I'm suprised at how often this happens though according to different links online. I just hope my post gives someone else a heads up.

Not to make her worry any further but ask her if her tax information and statements are all in order during that time also? Speaking from experience, she wants to be sure nothing else dealing with the both of them will come back to cause her problems.

I know there is no real bright side, but once she checks all of this and get it settled she will know everything has been handled.

I wish her the best.

 

[rabs77]

She might want to check out creditboards.com. They have great advice in how to deal with various types of collection agencies, as well as examples of letters to use to get them to stop harassing you and pay for deletion settlement letters.

Some folks on those boards even went to court and WON with those collection agencies because the loan contract was with the original creditor, not Uncle Bo Bo's We'll Get You collection agencies. They are the scum of the earth IMO.

HTH!

Thanks for the tip. We will check it out.

Not to make her worry any further but ask her if her tax information and statements are all in order during that time also? Speaking from experience, she wants to be sure nothing else dealing with the both of them will come back to cause her problems.

I know there is no real bright side, but once she checks all of this and get it settled she will know everything has been handled.

I wish her the best.

Yeah I'll let her know. sigh....this is so unfair

 

[GodMadeMePretty]

If she didn't sign, she shouldn't pay. If she still has the paperwork from the bank showing her signature, she should engage the services of a handwriting expert. Once they show that it is a forgery, then she should send a letter to the collection agency, to Wells Fargo (because I'm sure that they have it on her credit report as well) and the credit bureaus and demand that they remove it. In her letter to the collection agency, she should ask them not to contact her again unless they are serving her with papers. The sooner this is over the better for her credit report. This is if she really didn't sign it. If she isn't entirely sure whether she signed it or not, she may have to settle with them. But if she's absolutely sure that she didn't sign, she should engage a handwriting expert.

If the signature is so obviously different than her own, she may not even need to get a handwriting expert. She may be able to get by with going to a notary with an affidavit and they notarize her signature while they watch her sign.

I'd go the notary route first and if it doesn't work, get the handwriting expert.

This happened with a case I had with the IRS. The lady kept saying she didn't sign the return (her husband got his w-2 and hers and filed a joint return whereas she kept looking for her w-2 in the mail and finally had to go and get it from her employer and filed separately from him) and no one listened to her. When I finally saw her signature on the tax return and her signature on the petition to tax court, I already knew but I had to send it to our handwriting people anyway who got back with me quickly and said there was no need for any analysis.

 

[rabs77]

If she didn't sign, she shouldn't pay. If she still has the paperwork from the bank showing her signature, she should engage the services of a handwriting expert. Once they show that it is a forgery, then she should send a letter to the collection agency, to Wells Fargo (because I'm sure that they have it on her credit report as well) and the credit bureaus and demand that they remove it. In her letter to the collection agency, she should ask them not to contact her again unless they are serving her with papers. The sooner this is over the better for her credit report. This is if she really didn't sign it. If she isn't entirely sure whether she signed it or not, she may have to settle with them. But if she's absolutely sure that she didn't sign, she should engage a handwriting expert.

If the signature is so obviously different than her own, she may not even need to get a handwriting expert. She may be able to get by with going to a notary with an affidavit and they notarize her signature while they watch her sign.

I'd go the notary route first and if it doesn't work, get the handwriting expert.

This happened with a case I had with the IRS. The lady kept saying she didn't sign the return (her husband got his w-2 and hers and filed a joint return whereas she kept looking for her w-2 in the mail and finally had to go and get it from her employer and filed separately from him) and no one listened to her. When I finally saw her signature on the tax return and her signature on the petition to tax court, I already knew but I had to send it to our handwriting people anyway who got back with me quickly and said there was no need for any analysis.

Thank you!
Emailing this to her now. She says her signature is not a complicated one, just her initials and former last name. But again, the handwriting expert should be able to determine if it was faked, right? She is sure she did not sign it because the car was purchased 3 months before she left the house, and there was no way they were cool enough at that point to be signing ish together. She was on her way out of the marriage at that point.

 

[LadyPaniolo]

When I saw this thread I was like Oh No, Not Rabs! I'm glad to hear it isn't you, but it still sucks to have a dear friend in such a tight spot.

Co-sign on Dave Ramsey His website should be her first stop.

 

[SmartyPants]

Also have her pull all three of her credit reports and tax returns from the last 5-7 years (or less if they were married for less than that).

She needs to make sure there are no other nasty surprises waiting for her!

 

[rabs77]

When I saw this thread I was like Oh No, Not Rabs! I'm glad to hear it isn't you, but it still sucks to have a dear friend in such a tight spot.

Co-sign on Dave Ramsey His website should be her first stop.

Thanks,for the concern, it's really a sucky situation. This nicca really did her wrong. I'll pass on the info about Dave Ramsey.

Also have her pull all three of her credit reports and tax returns from the last 5-7 years (or less if they were married for less than that).

She needs to make sure there are no other nasty surprises waiting for her!

Thanks for the advice. She has been keeping an eye on her credit very closely since she originally found this loan on her credit in 06. She's been trying to work with Wells Fargo to sort this out. She just called me really upset today cos now the loan has moved from WF to a collections agency, and they have added extra charges..

 

[ThickHair]

After she get's this straighten out she needs to send cousin Ray Ray and nem to, ehem, speak to ex husband. She may end up paying but they could get some, ehem equity out of his a$$.

 

[Farida]

Yeah rabs77 I was thinking the handwriting expert too, but didn't want to see anything until an attorney chimed in...to make sure I hadn't been watching too much truTV!

 

[rabs77]

After she get's this straighten out she needs to send cousin Ray Ray and nem to, ehem, speak to ex husband. She may end up paying but they could get some, ehem equity out of his a$$.

yes, he definately has something coming his way. The little b* keeps hiding so it's hard to track him down, but once they do....

Yeah rabs77 I was thinking the handwriting expert too, but didn't want to see anything until an attorney chimed in...to make sure I hadn't been watching too much truTV!

you can never watch to much tv. I'm hoping the handwriting expert is able make this go away.