Black products and services - why can't we just pay up?

[Iluvsmuhgrass]

NL know good and well she would let Jesus hook her up if was doing hurr

LMAO

 

[LeopardLover77]

Many of the black owned companies, especially the new start-ups simply don't have the economies of scale that larger white-owned companies do. If you're selling 30 units/wk, you can't compete on the price of your raw materials, packaging and other supplies with someone selling 3000 units/wk. I had a small sideline supplying cookies to area establishments but, even though I had a better product, I couldn't compete on price with the larger bakeries. And I wasn't even making money, just trying not to lose money. I don't think that the black-owned businesses are trying to gouge their customers, just trying to stay afloat.

As far as black-owned salons. I've only been in one twice in the last two years for a trim, but I used to go to Lock N Chops in NYC to have my locks groomed. They were a bit on the expensive side, but my locks always looked fierce, they always took me at my appointment time, and they were professional all around. I would gladly pay for their services anytime. If we stop patronizing the late, double-booking, eating in between the wash and conditioner type salons, perhaps they'll wise up and get better.

I try to seek out black owned products and services, and I'll gladly pay the same or even more for them. But, I won't purchase an inferior product no matter what the cost. And if a white product works better for my hair, so be it.

I agree with your post.

I just want to comment on the bolded. Yes, the salons run their business like that should definitely not be patronized anymore and with crappy service like that, it's not worth the money AT ALL.

For instance, I have been to many many salons that have done the things you mentioned and I was paying good money for my weaves and I never felt I was getting my money's worth.

So for the past two years I've been going to a marvelously talented stylist who does everything on my "unwritten checklist" (similar to what I posted earlier) and MORE. I pay about $3-something for all of my weave services (with takedown, treatment, trim, weave install, and most importantly good TLC) every 2 to 3 months. I'm most pleased because I can now wear my own hair because it has grown so healthy and long. My hair is the longest it's ever been. And now I save money because I no longer need weaves or braids because my own hair is full enough and long enough for me to feel comfortable wearing it out. It has been money well-spent in my opinion. It would be nice if most salons operated like where I'm going to now.

 

[lovenharmony]

I believe there will be people that complain about prices regardless of their race. I know many on this board and other Black women that shell out the big bucks for Black owned products and services on a regular basis. Then there are others who need to live on a budget because they have more important priorities to take care of and will complain about what they believe to be high prices.

IMO, there may be a deep underlying issue as to why some Black women feel it's ok to pay hundreds or thousands more for a product or service from a different race than a Black vendor IF THEIR PRODUCT OR SERVICE IS OF THE SAME QUALITY. Other than that, if the product works for my hair I will buy it, no matter who the vendor or creator is.

 

[fivetimestwo]

Ms. Jessie's products are overpriced, that's just plain and simple. And, I seriously hope Miko isn't charging the same price in DC because those hairstyles are shoddy.

And, shipping is a relatively universal cost, so we know when we are being overcharged. I think it is very reasonable to ask/criticize if someone is trying to charge you $11 for something being shipped by ground.

You hit the nail on the head right there....

 

[HAIRapy]

For my $600 I need a few more things added to your list. I need a
9. Mani/pedi;
10. Scalp massage,
11. Brazilian wax
12. Facial
13. Threading

Shoot, for my $600, imma need:
A good man (perferably, one that can gimme my $$ back LOL)
a tummy tuck
5 free visits to get my hair done again
and a pack of Orbit gum

 

[Iluvsmuhgrass]

Shoot, for my $600, imma need:
A good man (perferably, one that can gimme my $$ back LOL)
a tummy tuck
5 free visits to get my hair done again
and a pack of Orbit gum

woooooooooow lolol

 

[Crackers Phinn]

BTW - I went back and looked at what I think is the thread in question and I a good poll would be how many of the people who commented on their services already purchased a Miss Jessie's product.

There are alot of people who have already paid full price for a Miss Jessies product (me included) that cannot see giving them folks one more dime whether we had it or not.

 

[charmtreese]

I do not agree with you about the racial aspect of buying behavior. I lean more towards quality and will continue to do so. I think a lot of the issue is with products that the average consumer of which the average consumer knows the raw costs to produce. On average, I think Black people have a pretty good idea of the raw cost of a hair service and the average Black market hair product. I can give you a great example of something that I did in a BSS, I was looking at Tajimah Waajid *sp* products. Now her products are directed at people with natural hair and supposed to be natural, but upon looking at her ingredients, I couldn’t find anything that I couldn’t put together myself or buy in one of the other various, sundry hair oils. Now, why would I pay 20-30% more for this product? Another example is that WEN cleansing conditioner, why would I pay $25 for something that can be easily achieved with VO5? Now, I am willing to pay more for an Aveda product or a Kerastase product because they have laboratories where they do research and development and these companies bear a higher burden/liability of quality.

.

And there you go....what works for one will not work for all.

VO5 is like liquid garbage in my hair, and Aveda did nothing for my hair. However, WEN has totally changed my hair for the better...therefore Im willing to shell out the 28 + S&H to get my WEN fix.

Its all about what you are willing to pay and what works for you! Race IMO is not a factor.

 

[Crissi]

I have learnt one thing about myself, the more into this haircare thing i get, i now cannot and will not pay up if its extortion e.g if i can make this product at home (yet the company is charging stupid for it, as if you are buying gold dust!), i am not paying for it. Why would i pay somebody for this product when its cheaper for me to make it in my kitchen?! Now if it was something else, e.g Motions decided to increase the price of CPR please beleive i would still happily buy it whatever the cost...

And if your product denigrates Black intelligence, then hell no, I will not buy your product.

AhemCoughDoctorMiraclesCoughAhem

ETA: Same rules apply if i can slap on some deep conditioner and sit under the dryer at home, im not paying someone to do that...

 

[blazingthru]

okay we got a black business person - making a product we can use - since he is one of us it should be reasonable not high like we been expose to forever. Maybe now we can get a break. I don't know if I agree with it but at times I do feel it. I know I can't afford to go to Miss Jessies but yeah I would buy a coach bag for that amount of money. Why because I can use that bag over and over again and I can give it away to someone if I choose to but for a product that will wash down the drain after a few uses or a relaxer that is old after a fews weeks, no I wouldn't pay that much money for it. Its my money and I will use it the way I choose to. But if I complain its because I really don't have the extra money for it and I really want it. That would be the only reason why I would complain about it and it wouldn't matter who made it. I think you feel it more when the person who make is black though, I dont' think you can easily dismiss it. Like you can the white owner becuase they stuff is always high-- always - I think if the person is black it would be more reasonable. There are more factors to consider and If I am aware of those factors I would accept it easier, for instance if there is a product out that had Emul oil in it, then Yeah i would expect it to be high. Emul oil is high itself so I expect to have to come up with some ducks for it. I can easily except I have to spend money for quality and that I can do without thinking hard about it.

 

[nappity]

For me its not race so much at economics- I have gone to two salons for naturals in NYC and while they were expensive, the professionalism , timeliness and end result have made me happy. I like Ms. Jessie's salon- I get in and out with no drama. My 10:00 means 10:00. The same as Tendrils My 1:00 means 1:00 and my hair looks good for a few weeks after. My money gives me the power of choice. The last time I wandered into any old salon I wound up having to cut off two inches of hair ( I prolly would have cut it anyway) But it was damaged hair that I paid 35.00 to get.
I explained to some of my friends that as a permie I would pay 100.00 for a relaxer, condition, trim, etc... At least every 6 weeks, times that by the number 6 week intervals in one year about 8-9 , thats 900.00 not to mention the going to the Dominicans for a doobie every 2 weeks at 35.00 a pop - I was spending over 1400 a year. Yeah Ms. Jessie's can have my 500.00 for a haircut. And Tendrils can have my 300 for a cornrow and twist that lasts 3 months (i just neaten it up every 12 weeks).
Its far less cheaper for me. I find that I just spend the balance of that 1400 on finding different hair products or a pair of Loboutain shoes, plus a Cole-Haan pocketbook.
I will not pay anyone to sit in their salon all day- for me time is money and if you provide an upscale service with results that are in my context of acceptable... Imma pay what I pay and keep it moving
When Jesus opens his salon- I'll be sure to book there but he better not keep me waiting all day!

 

[Social.Buttahfly]

Girl you said a mouthful, and I totally agree with you!

Why does it always seem that many people in here have an issue with products and services by black women/companies if the prices are higher than what "they" think it should be? I rephrased this questions several times and I hope this makes sense And BTW, I'm black as well in case anyone is wondering.

It almost seems like people expect products and services rendered by black women should be discounted or something. Then I've seen members cause another member to change their mind about getting a more expensive service because people feel it should be cheaper. Why do we feel the need to try to put our own price tag on things like that?

For example: One of the Miss Jessie's threads really took me for a loop. The OP asked something like "If money were no object, would you get your hair done at Miss Jessies?" Then so many people chimed in and said that it's too expensive or that it should be $200 instead of $600. How can someone devalue a service? I understand if someone feels that the service they received was not worth anything because they were not satisfied, but to try to re-price it altogether?...... Those girls are providing a service that THEY feel is worth $600. I don't think they could ever fully justify why they charge what they charge to anyone's satisfaction - and they shouldn't have to. If they did, they would probably list a whole bunch of things that people would STILL try to downplay. I wanted to post a reply in that thread but I didn't want to throw it off-topic.

Another example: Someone posted a thread about the lady from Boundless Tresses charging $11 for shipping. Then someone else in the thread expected the BT owner to come and "explain herself" about the shipping charge. What the? She is selling a quality product and does anyone think about the labor that goes behind it when it comes to shipping? How about boxes, internal packaging, labeling of the bottle, etc.

Why do we feel like we are entitled to discounted products and services all the time? If you want the product, can't you just pay and call it a day? I hardly see anyone complain about paying $30 for 2oz of Kerastase product but you'll complain about $50 for 16oz of a Miss Jessie's product or $11 for shipping for BT. That's just to name a couple.

 

[Creatividual]

I feel that prices for products and services are determined by your targeted demographic. Higher priced salons/products are aiming for higher end customers. And as the saying goes, "if you build it, they will come". Somebody will pay the price for that product or service. As a consumer, you have a right to voice your opinion. Do I think you should go "repricing" things, nah. If you don't like the price, fine. Don't buy it. LOL. At the end of the day, people complain all they want. But if they really want it, they'll buy it. If you're still makin money with your high prices, then someone out there is ok with what you're charging, who cares what the others think? Naysayers include every race. You can't satisfy everyone anyway. I would think you would want to focus your energy on the people who ARE putting their hard earned money into your products/services. That's what counts to me.

I go based off of quality, what works for me,if I can afford it/if it's worth shelling out the cash, and how bad I want it. If I really want it and can't afford it then, I will find a way to get it later. It has nothing to do with race.

 

[Islandspyce]

Well I do feel that it is primarily, but not solely a black thing honestly. Yes, we are darn right entitled to get our money's worth.

However, I feel that if someone charges $600 for their service and that service includes the following (example only):

1. Professionalism
2. Dedicated appointment time
3. Chemical service
4. Shampoo service after the chemical
5. Straightening service
6. Cutting service
7. Styling service
8. And lastly, a finished product that entails everything that the stylist is about

If you check off on all of those things, then the $600 asking price is valid. It is totally irrelevant if one feels that the service should be $200 or simply that the price shouldn't be what it is because one feels that black people aren't on that economic level.

ETA:
Here's more to add to the list, they are rather indirect in regards to your actual service. These are things that you may not necessarily care or think about - but hey all the money doesn't just go into the person's pocket:

9. The very building that the salon is held in
10. The lights and bill - so that the stylist can SEE your head
11. The chair you sit in along with the other equipment
12. The water and the bill - so that your hair can be shampooed
13. The PRODUCTS that are being used (hopefully high-quality ones mind you)
14. The physical LABOR that it takes to do everything that needs to be done for the service
15. Health insurance so that the stylist can stay in good health

Well, I guess, if you were their only customer! I am not in a position to pay $600 to a black or any race of stylist at the moment. However, if I were I would need more for my buck, I have received a full day of beauty at a very upscale spa for less and that includes lunch! I am all about atmosphere and for that price and what boils down to a touchup, trim and style-I would need to feel very, pampered and special and Beyonce would be sitting in the next chair.

 

[firecracker]

I totally agree!
In the context of my post I meant that you get what you pay for as far as convenience.

That $200 potion is a TOTAL rip off!!!!

The bolded is wrong that $200 potion made somebody's hair grow to the floor lady!

 

[sunshinelady]

I have to speak on this.

Lots of people can make lots of different things. I can sew a mean tunic top. I can make a fly one for say, $5 if I want to. But b/c I am a busy woman and I love convenience, I would rather go to the store and buy one. Am I going to find one that costs $5 or around the same cost that I can make one? No. I will have to pay maybe $12 and up. You pay for convenience. The same applies to haircare products. Many can be made at home especially all natural products but lots of people like to have it made for them. Its all in what you prefer.

Convenience costs. Plain and simple. You are not going to pay less to have someones labor do or make something for you. As far as shipping goes that is also a convenience. You can sit at home in front of your PC click a few buttons and in a few days your products is placed at your front door. That is a convenience. That doesn't happen in a vacuum. I will simply copy and paste this here from FlyGirls earlier post:


So should all that labor and time just go for nothing? Nah. I wouldnt think so. I will say the old cliche: You get what you pay for.

Well, it all depends on what is important to you. You can cut costs on shipping in order to sell more product (which is produced in bulk) or keep those costs the same and sell less. And once again, I'm not knocking you personally NL, just speaking from a pricing analysis standpoint.

 

[fluffylocks]

I've thought about this also and i kind of agree.

But i think the reason is that before learning about haircare, everyone was probally using black products, and going to black salons.

Now people are learning that they can use anything---so their trying other things.

But i think with that, to some people comes an attitude that the black product/services are not "as good", which is not true as i always say...you need to look at the ingredients and understand exactly whats going on.

But another thing, besides race is i think alot of people ALWAYS tend to think that big companies/established brands, and higher prices equals a better product. So regardless of race, if the product isnt established, then the price shouldnt be high, and if the name brand is very popular, than it doesnt matter the price
Like the Keracare moisturizer, that thing has alot of ingredients that are "no-no's" on here, Elasta Qp has something similar with none of the bad ingredients, but is $10 cheaper.---But somepeople just go with brands.


ETA---about the race thing. There also could be a misconception that black products and services shouldnt cost as much because most of the big poplular products and expenisve ones and popular hair salon chains are owned by white people.
Alot of black products are just now getting started, family owned, or not that popular yet----so that could also go with the idea that popular/expensive has the right to cost more, and non-popular (alot of black products), should be cheap/arent as good.

 

[SparklingFlame]

Well, it all depends on what is important to you. You can cut costs on shipping in order to sell more product (which is produced in bulk) or keep those costs the same and sell less. And once again, I'm not knocking you personally NL, just speaking from a pricing analysis standpoint.

Its cool, SL!

 

[glamazon386]

In the case of Miss Jessie's, I think that the prices they charge would be debated regardless of who is doing the charging.

The price/value of Aveda and Ojon is debated back and forth across hair hair boards.

From an economic point of view, it makes perfect sense that the supply and demand price points be a steady topic on high end products/services.

I guarantee that as I type somebody on a shoe board is debating whether Louboutin's are worth a mortgage payment.

I would agree. And IMO, Miss Jessies's products are way too expensive considering they are not using better quality ingredients. I can go right to the BSS and buy something with mineral oil in it. I don't have a problem spending more money for quality. But it needs to be worth it.

I think the issue with services when it comes to black women is that we get our hair done more often than most other races/cultures. And our services are generally cheaper. I used to pay $25-$30 a week (or every 2 weeks) for a wash and set when I was relaxed. And between $45-$60 for a relaxer. That adds up. I did not wash my own hair at home so I wasn't spending as much money on products. But if I walked into a salon and they told me like $50 or $60 for a wash and set I would have looked at them like . If they are doing the same thing my stylist was doing and not doing it better then I don't see the point in having to pay double. And I would stick with my current stylist. In that case I think it's more about the salon and the ambiance than what they stylist is actually doing.

With other races/cultures they may only go in every 6 weeks for color or a cut or something but it costs more. Also, they probably wash more between those visits than we do. So they would need more products at home than I would. I think the amount of money spent evens out over an extended period of time though.

Also, I noticed a lot of you mentioned you did not frequent black salons pretty much because they are unprofessional. I don't care what color you are, if you are unprofessional you will not be getting my money. If you are not doing what I ask or taking care of my hair, you will not be getting my money. Period. You might have to pay a little more to be treated better but it is what it i s.

 

[TaurusAngel]

I think that some of the harsher treatment towards black vendors or their products may be due to the fact that we feel like they should understand us and our hair. I, for one, wouldn't pay that much regardless of who the person is, but thats me. As long as i get quality work and products, then i'll continue with that person or product. But to be honest, i think whatever u order online is gonna have high s&h. Postage has gone up drastically.

And another thing, i don't think there is anything wrong with shopping around for the cheaper buy. I spend 40 dollars at my salon and she does a wonderful job. As long as i get a good job done. And we shouldn't buy from a black person just because they're black. Just my two cents.

 

[LeopardLover77]

I just want to say that I appreciate that this thread has stayed clean but heavily opinionated. I wanted to get many points of view. I have read everyone's post and I respect everyone's opinion whether you agree with me or not. I feel that this was definitely one of those "nobody-wants-to-go-there" topics but I had to ask because it's been bugging me for a while now.

And there's over 70 replies and no fighting!

I've come to the conclusion that you can't please everyone but all businesses whether white or black need to be professional if nothing else.

 

[pisceschica]

I have to respectfully disagree with your opinion. If boundless tresses (made by a black woman nl) has shipping charges of $11 and susie snowflake is selling the same item and the shipping is also $11 and I have a problem with high shipping prices, I won't buy it from either and complain about both Things that are overpriced (not you NL) won't be seeing a dime out of my pocket, black white or otherwise.

I've not noticed a theme of us complaining only about the cost of "black" produced products. I think we are complainers (or lovers) across the color board

I agree about the shipping. I don't ever really sit there and argue over the price of services or professional products because I am in that industry and most of the time I use professional products so I can understand soemtimes why the price is the way it is. .

But standard shipping for a little bottle I would want to know why it was so much that thats just me. . thats alsomost the price of the product itself. . .erplexed

 

[LeopardLover77]

I agree about the shipping. I don't ever really sit there and argue over the price of services or professional products because I am in that industry and most of the time I use professional products so I can understand soemtimes why the price is the way it is. .

But standard shipping for a little bottle I would want to know why it was so much that thats just me. . thats alsomost the price of the product itself. . .erplexed

I tried to refrain from saying this several times but................. I feel that Boundless Tresses is UNDERPRICED for what is has been proven to do. So in all actuality, it could and shouldbe priced in the $35 to $50 range in my opinion so then an $11 charge wouldn't sound too bad to some. When I read all of the rave reviews about the product on here and EVERYWHERE else, I was almost SURE that it was going to be priced much higher than $13 or so especially since a big personal touch goes into it. .....But who I am I to put a price tag on anything - even if I AM saying it should cost more. That's a whole nother thread...

 

[*Muffin*]

I think it's just a natural tendency of human beings in general to wish things that are on the expensive side were cheaper. Money is hard to come by nowadays and for some getting their hair done for $600 dollars a visit is just out of the question. If someone can afford to get their hair done for that amount of money and/or buy a whole bunch of products at 20 and 30 dollars a pop, more power to them. But, for me, it simply isn't in my budget. And it's frustrating because it's becoming harder and harder to find good products that a majority of consumers can afford to keep using.

 

[pisceschica]

I tried to refrain from saying this several times but................. I feel that Boundless Tresses is UNDERPRICED for what is has been proven to do. So in all actuality, it could and shouldbe priced in the $35 to $50 range in my opinion so then an $11 charge wouldn't sound too bad to some. When I read all of the rave reviews about the product on here and EVERYWHERE else, I was almost SURE that it was going to be priced much higher than $13 or so especially since a big personal touch goes into it. .....But who I am I to put a price tag on anything - even if I AM saying it should cost more. That's a whole nother thread...

I understand that but I'm talking about the shipping of the shipping and handling not the actual product. Whether the product is worth $10 or $100 I would question why standard shipping was so much for something so little and wonder if they are pocketing the diff.

 

[SparklingFlame]

I just want to say for the record in this thread, as I have stated in the other "OMG the shipping is so high" thread, that shipping for BT is $11 for 2 bottles not 1.

 

[SparklingFlame]

I understand that but I'm talking about the shipping of the shipping and handling not the actual product. Whether the product is worth $10 or $100 I would question why standard shipping was so much for something so little and wonder if they are pocketing the diff.

Yes we do. That is called a handling charge. Its separate from the shipping charge.

 

[glamazon386]

I just want to say for the record in this thread, as I have stated in the other "OMG the shipping is so high" thread, that shipping for BT is $11 for 2 bottles not 1.

Why are people missing that?

 

[Wildchild453]

I tried to refrain from saying this several times but................. I feel that Boundless Tresses is UNDERPRICED for what is has been proven to do. So in all actuality, it could and shouldbe priced in the $35 to $50 range in my opinion so then an $11 charge wouldn't sound too bad to some. When I read all of the rave reviews about the product on here and EVERYWHERE else, I was almost SURE that it was going to be priced much higher than $13 or so especially since a big personal touch goes into it. .....But who I am I to put a price tag on anything - even if I AM saying it should cost more. That's a whole nother thread...

I have to step in on that because I think its fairly priced especially when most ppl are simply paying for the convenience of BT. Anyone can go into any CVS and get some sulfur, mix it with some oils and EOs and have their own BT. Many ppl don't want to do that...but they are aware of how much doing it for themselves would cost...so I stand on fairly priced

 

[kellie7777]

As someone who intitated a thread to ridicule the price of a hhair product just last week, I am going to say that as a consumer, I have every right to complain about whatever I want to complain about when I am spending (or considering spending) my money. I do not know if Ted Gibson is white, black, or polka dot, $200 for dressed up castor oil is ridiculous in my opinion - and as this is a board where we are (presumably) free to express opinion, I will say again, $200 for dressed up castor oil is flipping ridiculous.

That said, expensive is a subjective and relative term completely dependent upon one's income and budget.

As far as the racial issue, I have not frequented a black salon in years and have no intention of doing so because I will not pay for slow, rude, shoddy service which was my experience multiple times over years. When looking for hair products, I want what works and do not look for the ethnicity of the maker. And if I question the price - then I do and shamelessly.

can i get a witness... you got a witness.....