A Prayer Guide for the Case of Bishop Long . . .

[Guitarhero]

I've been trying to find a way to say and ask around this situation without causing controversy, but are we more afraid of their homosexuality than the crimes and/or abusive manipulation he committed? It seems to me we fear homosexuality rather than wish to address the destructive behaviors (and in that, we can include masturbation and heterosexual promiscuity).

Granted, biblically (and not just christianity) and historically in the middle-east, it's simply an abomination. But the act of unmarried sex that is homosexual is the abomination, not the make-up of the person. I truly do not believe there is per se a demon, I think there is some kind of disordered desire for it to exist in the first place because we know that sex in marriage is for procreation and is a sacred act and that biology is a certain way from creation. Maybe G-d throws curveballs?

However, and I expect to get a few raised eye-brows, there are those of us with same-sex orientation and do not act out on it ...at least, not now. I am one of them and I'm a christian with a Jewish affiliation of sorts. I'm two-spirited, not gay, but bi. I accept it. Of course, I wish to be married but I do know that I have this tendency and I've fulfilled it in the past. For a relationship, I prefer men. How is it a sin to BE of such an orientation/chemical/mental/etc. when you do not ACT upon it? I wouldn't say I have any demonic spirit residing inside of me. Perhaps there are those who disagree...but I know myself and my relationship with G-d.

And maybe these scandals are a way for the religious communities to face two situations, one of scandal and abuse and one of our attitudes towards those who, by no fault of their own, have an homosexual or bi-sexual orientation. Dunno.

The buffalo dung must be hitting the fan right about now... Have I told my children? No and probably will not since it's not a lifestyle I wish to live...but I lean that way in desires sometimes. I won't be ashamed I'm this way, but I would be ashamed if I were immoral in any kind of way.

 

[Shimmie]

I've been trying to find a way to say and ask around this situation without causing controversy, but are we more afraid of their homosexuality than the crimes and/or abusive manipulation he committed? It seems to me we fear homosexuality rather than wish to address the destructive behaviors (and in that, we can include masturbation and heterosexual promiscuity).

Granted, biblically (and not just christianity) and historically in the middle-east, it's simply an abomination. But the act of unmarried sex that is homosexual is the abomination, not the make-up of the person. I truly do not believe there is per se a demon, I think there is some kind of disordered desire for it to exist in the first place because we know that sex in marriage is for procreation and is a sacred act and that biology is a certain way from creation. Maybe G-d throws curveballs?

However, and I expect to get a few raised eye-brows, there are those of us with same-sex orientation and do not act out on it ...at least, not now. I am one of them and I'm a christian with a Jewish affiliation of sorts. I'm two-spirited, not gay, but bi. I accept it. Of course, I wish to be married but I do know that I have this tendency and I've fulfilled it in the past. For a relationship, I prefer men. How is it a sin to BE of such an orientation/chemical/mental/etc. when you do not ACT upon it? I wouldn't say I have any demonic spirit residing inside of me. Perhaps there are those who disagree...but I know myself and my relationship with G-d.

And maybe these scandals are a way for the religious communities to face two situations, one of scandal and abuse and one of our attitudes towards those who, by no fault of their own, have an homosexual or bi-sexual orientation. Dunno.

The buffalo dung must be hitting the fan right about now... Have I told my children? No and probably will not since it's not a lifestyle I wish to live...but I lean that way in desires sometimes. I won't be ashamed I'm this way, but I would be ashamed if I were immoral in any kind of way.

Hi Angel... May I come back to share my heart on this? I'll be leaving work soon, but I have some errands to run before I get home. But I want to come back to this. I don't want the heart of my response to misunderstood.

God bless you and I'll be back later when I'm home and settled. It will also give me time to pray as God would have me to share.

See you later... :Rose:

 

[Shimmie]

I've been trying to find a way to say and ask around this situation without causing controversy, but are we more afraid of their homosexuality than the crimes and/or abusive manipulation he committed? It seems to me we fear homosexuality rather than wish to address the destructive behaviors (and in that, we can include masturbation and heterosexual promiscuity).

Granted, biblically (and not just christianity) and historically in the middle-east, it's simply an abomination. But the act of unmarried sex that is homosexual is the abomination, not the make-up of the person. I truly do not believe there is per se a demon, I think there is some kind of disordered desire for it to exist in the first place because we know that sex in marriage is for procreation and is a sacred act and that biology is a certain way from creation. Maybe G-d throws curveballs?

However, and I expect to get a few raised eye-brows, there are those of us with same-sex orientation and do not act out on it ...at least, not now. I am one of them and I'm a christian with a Jewish affiliation of sorts. I'm two-spirited, not gay, but bi. I accept it. Of course, I wish to be married but I do know that I have this tendency and I've fulfilled it in the past. For a relationship, I prefer men. How is it a sin to BE of such an orientation/chemical/mental/etc. when you do not ACT upon it? I wouldn't say I have any demonic spirit residing inside of me. Perhaps there are those who disagree...but I know myself and my relationship with G-d.

And maybe these scandals are a way for the religious communities to face two situations, one of scandal and abuse and one of our attitudes towards those who, by no fault of their own, have an homosexual or bi-sexual orientation. Dunno.

The buffalo dung must be hitting the fan right about now... Have I told my children? No and probably will not since it's not a lifestyle I wish to live...but I lean that way in desires sometimes. I won't be ashamed I'm this way, but I would be ashamed if I were immoral in any kind of way.

Amazing Grace...

This is what God has for all of us, no matter who we are, what we think, what we do... Amazing Grace is what God has chosen to extend towards all.

What I can say about homosexuality, you can and most definitely have or will read in my other posts and threads; I've never been quiet about this subject.

What's more important is the importance of you and what God has for you as His beloved child. And 'Beloved' you are of Him... Truly Beloved. :Rose:

All He ever wants of you is to come and remain closer to Him. He's not moving away. He wants to embrace you and to comfort you and to show you just how important your life and your heart and your desires in life are to Him; and to have your desires to be 'God' Fulfilled and not self or world fulfilled.

As humans we are all 'swayed' into divers temptations of divers proportions and ideals. Yet, God in His love for us, has given us His promise which is sure, that He will lead us not into temptation and He will deliver us from all evil. All we have to do is but ask and seek to remain close to Him.

Volver, you are not exempt from God's deliverance, neither are you a curve-ball, you are not a mis-direction of life. God has kept you for His great pleasure and to give you the very best of who He is and what He wants in you as His child... His best.

When you say you have 'thoughts', God has answers for this... of loving encouragement, void of condemnation.

Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. (Jude 1:21)

God is not going to turn you away, because of your thoughts; He wants you to instead grow closer to Him, for in this closeness, you will be filled with His thoughts and embraced with so much of His love that all else will leave which does not belong.

Do you have a devil in you? No Loved one... No.

What does exist is a spirit in this earth realm that seeks upon those that can be influenced by the 'thoughts' in opposition to God's order. A thought that catches one's attention which validates a 'void' being filled where God should be instead.

Example: A person without a job whose needs are desperate to feed his family, pay the rent/mortgage, a doctor bill, etc. His faith is being challenged and he is overcome by the situation. The enemy will come with not only the 'influence' but the thought to commit a crime (robbery, extortion, embezzlement). Now we know these thoughts are not from God, yet the pressure is so great that this person yields to the spirit of influence and ends up in sin.

A husband or wife may feel justified to cheat because they are not getting satisfaction from 'home'.

A woman who has been abused / emotionally hurt by men will lean towards the love of another woman.

A man who has never known the love and the acceptance of a father / positive male role model will seek love and approval from another man...or a young boy will mistake being sexually exploited by a man as natural behaviour.

However, when it comes to 'same sex' attractions, it is never from God and it never will be. But why does it occur? What is the enemy using to make it seem right or normal to the person who yields to it?

Who hurt you? Who made you feel that a man is not enough? Who made you feel that what you are searching for to feel complete or even safe, that a woman has what a man cannot give you? And truly men (for a woman) or a woman (for a man) are never enough for our lives, and only because it is meant for God to fill in those voids, not going to someone of the same sex.

As a woman and as a child of God, you were created and so carefully designed in love and by love, and created to be loved wholely and completely, and somehow 'life' has cheated you; so it's only natural for you to seek or desire it when it's not fulfilled.

Angel, look what God says to prove He understands unfilled desires:

Hope deferred maketh the HEART SICK: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life. ---- Proverbs 13:12

God understands... He made you to have desires and to also have them fulfilled. Now satan is fully aware of this and this is when he deceives humanity and brings in his counterfeits. But it is only by God's grace that we discern which is of God and which is not. And God gives us a warning:

The desire accomplished is sweet to the soul: but it is abomination to fools to depart from evil. ---- Proverbs 13:19

So what is God saying here. He is speaking of 'fulfullment' outside of Him; People who find / seek fulfillment outside of Him, find it sweet to satisfy their desires, and they reject / despise departing from evil or resisting temptation.

I'm not saying this is you, no, not at all. I'm trying to give some understanding to how satan uses the mind to lead people astray, whether it's sex, money, or whatever. satan uses a void in a person's life and exploits it and leads people astray to fulfill a desire that is outside of God's will for us. That's the point I'm trying to convey. Okay....? :Rose:

There's so much to this, God is such an awesome teacher, but I'm going to wrap it up with this:

No matter what you may read from my posts when I speaking of homosexuality, please know that it is against the 'Spirit' of Deception of this issue which is real and is out there. It's presence is more than evident. Beyond evident. And part of God's call upon my life is to pray against it as well as other entities in this earth, for it has really taken far too much ground and God is not having it.

Please know that I respect you and see you no less of a beautiful and a perfectly loving and loved woman and child of our most High God, our Lord Jesus Christ and I will fight for you in prayer for satan can no longer have his negative influence over you.

My only regret is that I am not sharing this in person, for then you would be able to see and to know that I am speaking from a heart of love and not condemnation towards you nor any other. I mean this with all of my heart.

As God leads, I am going to speak out against this and the gay agenda, for they have truly taken a lot just a little too far; yet please know it will NEVER be against you nor anyone personally. If nothing else, I am fighting even harder for you, for your souls are worth it. Your lives are worth it. You are loved just that much and more than words can ever express.... The 'Cross' upon which Jesus bled and died for you, says it all.

I live for God and I have no shame or fear in doing so. Homophobic? Please! Who is man that I should fear him?

Precious Volver... You are LOVED! Embrace it and nothing less. Nothing less for God is waiting to show and give you His very best.

For you precious one...

With love ...

Shimmie....

I hope we're friends... even more 'sisters' in Jesus.

 

[Guitarhero]

I didn't mean it to come across that you are condemning and I apologize...I'm mainly concerned that in the general body of Christ, we are homophobic and that is the focus rather than the abuses against people and that transcends sexual orientation as women have been duped by their male pastors. I think this is part of the anger surrounding the Long case...and the embarassment.

I can respect your point of view because you have concrete reasoning behind it. It's not stemming from emotion. One thing though, in my case, it's been there a very long time, long before a marriage (lol). I repressed it since childhood but it was not a factor in my divorce at all. Well, it is what it is. I guess I came out the proverbial closet today And I know there are many out there like me, even here. It should be dealt with, recognized and placed into proper perspective according to one's faith, teaching, etc. Thank you for being very respectful!

That's the thing, I accept this "cross" of mine and what to do with it...offering it up daily. Sexual expression is the culminated of human feelings regarding love of a person. And with the Creator's design, homosexual sex goes against what He has planned. But it's no doubt that He has created those like me. It has to be one of the biggest cruxes a person has to face - to carry - especially if they desire to follow that biblical design.

If anything, I believe in the design of the "ministries" (because there are orthodox Jewish ones) that seek to help one follow the biblical design in behavior but do not think of the orientation itself as evil in the person or outside as in evil influence nor something to be delivered of. Besides, it will always be there, only repressed. That's hard to explain because what is stressed is behavior. I'mma have to come back to that and elaborate at some point. Hopefully, this post and others will help those trying to figure it all out as they are in the church.

But you're right in that there is an agenda but it's not only homosexual acts, it's greed, it's violence, it's promiscuity amongst heterosexuals as well. That is immorality. But one who is this way with a complete realization of the need to carry the cross in the faith just might not expect "deliverance." Remember Peter. We don't know if his thorn was illness or homosexuality. It could definitely have been. It's what you do, not how you are fashioned. And bi-sexual thoughts or homosexual thoughts aren't necessarily lustful. People tend to equate sex acts (remember, I think it's the physical express of the culmination of feelings) with "gayness" and it might not be the case that one is lustful. Of course, it can happen.

And....I love you too. :hug:

 

[gn1g]

Hab 2:4 speaks of a soul not being upright. I believe a person that is same sex oiented has to have there spirit/soul sent into correction.

Deliverence ministries are good at that. We have a ton of deliverance ministries here in Dallas HOWEVER all of them are not effective. One that I am impressed with is liberationministriesinc.org. He is a crack shot at sexual matters and drugs. I wish you could hear him preach and watch him work.

He says that the biggest thing going on know is incest, even more so than the other common perversions.

 

[luthiengirlie]

This thread is AMAZING
WHen I heard about this.. something felt OFF about the entire thing.

it's funny because I said " I will NOT enter into judgement of the situation until YHWH reveals truth"

the old me would have been like: that EVIL TRIFLING MOLESTER.

don't get me wrong.

If he did do those things let him be Reconciled
if he didn't let him and his family be healed

Lives are shaken
Faith is shaken
I pray that those who are shaken are restored to YHWH despite this.

I just pray for both sidies
and those who are shaken by this
this will damage all involved only needing to be healed by Yahshua.

so. I reserve no judgement
leaving it to EL ELYON. THAT IS my declaration.

 

[Guitarhero]

Hab 2:4 4Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

That's speaking about actions. There's still a disconnect between comprehending the makeup of a gay or bisexual person and behavior that isn't allowed scripturally. It's what you DO. That goes for heterosexuals. People can deliver all day long but you either repress it, forget it, deny it, live it out, or come to a point where you just let it be. Your actions speak all. Incidentally, there are many such people, they are just in denial.

For an analogy, aren't all people predisposed to commit error? What's the difference between a potential bank robber and a white-collar bank employee who is tempted to embezzle funds? They both carry the desire but they don't act upon it. Do they go to jail? No, not unless they committed the error. Their personality types are set in stone and if they follow the faith, they will struggle with it for a lifetime.

What about a sensual woman who is easily excited by a handsome guy and she struggles with thoughts. Is she committing error by being attracted to any guy and even wishing she could bed him despite her faith? If she commits it, then she's in error. If not, nope.

This is what I mean about homophobia in the church. People are more concerned that a person is gay than with their actions as a person, even concluding they cannot be righteous individuals. That's what confession is for. Of course, I'm talking for people in this faith, not for atheists or other religious of diff. faiths. In Long's case, I'm more concerned about his manipulation and utilization of congregants rather than his status as a gay man, which he most definitely is. I wouldn't ever condone any outside sexual experience in marriage. But I don't think he's bi, exactly, I think he's strictly gay and his wife was his beard for years. He went behind her back. He seduced young boys. This tells me that, not only is he a schmuck, he's a man who doesn't respect family. He should never have married her and had kids just to accommodate expectations of his family and friends.

With that said, you can live a righteous life if you are "gay-minded." You can. I'm living proof. There's no cure...it's just a disposition and repressing it makes you sick, not well. Have to come to terms with it.

 

[Mahalialee4]

This Scripture shows that even back in the time of the Apostles, people were struggling with the same sins. Paul said that some of those that he was speaking to, had been overtaken by these sins.

1 Corinthians 6:9 "Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor EFFIMINATE, nor ABUSERS OF THEMSELVES WITH MANKIND, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11AND SUCH WERE SOME OF YOU: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. "...

AND THE GOOD NEWS IS: They can be washed, sanctified and justified. It is not something that cannot be overcome. We are "more than overcomers", the Word tells us. The Word also says: "He makes me to overcome"

 

[Mahalialee4]

The Holy Spirit showed me this some time ago. I have sent you a private email. One thing that I know is that 'your spirit' could be very easily wounded. The Word of God tells us to 'speak truth to one another" and also to 'pray for one another that we might be healed".

It is not the 'inner struggles' of a person, saint or not, in that direction that I would condemn. Neither would I reject someone knowing that they have a daily struggle like this.

However, I do not have sympathy for those that lie in wait to abuse children, and destroy their lives, and put on 'a false Christian front', in a powerful spiritual position to carry out evil. And to add to the evil, go out of their way to keep the evil going, sometimes for 20 and thirty years, without ever REMOVING THEMSELVES from the temptation or ACCESS, or POSITION OF AUTHORITY.

Just as you came forward, so can they. Now I believe you will receive a lot of prayerful support from many as well you should. I agree totally. There is a difference in having the pull a certain way and actually carrying it out. That is as deep as I care to go here. Keep the faith.

If they (these shepherds and priests) WANT TO to stop the destructive behaviour, they need to acknowledge it and come out of any position that gives them access, authority and power over youth. They need 'to face' God with their struggle instead of hiding behind God. They need to remove themselves from the temptation. That might include not being a pastor or a priest or having any contact with children.

A true shepherd 'protects' the flock. The 'wolf' eats the flock! A shepherd knows if he is a wolf! no matter how much he is in denial. He knows!

James 1:12 "Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. 13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16Do not err, my beloved brethren."

 

[Mahalialee4]

These 'thought' can be 'darts' from the evil one. 'Impulses'. Satan 'likes to sift people as wheat", and look for any weak areas. He knows them before we do. Then he will press those buttons. And if we have 'certain desires' Satan will work on that overtime. This can also apply to 'fornication and adultery'.
Or sex 'addicts' or those 'addicted to pornography or those who have a compulsion to 'steal' or compulsive lying.

People who are drawn to have relations with the same sex, are not allowed a "yours is a special case" in the Word of God. He lays it on the line for all alike.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Galatians 5:19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death

13 "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust has conceived, it brings forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, brings forth death"

As far as the "God made me this way" or "I was born this way", I believe that some people are 'affected' in that way, hereditary (e.g. hermaphrodites) or 'spiritual family inheritance', being a spirit and a curse attached.

God's Word does not allow 'those who are effeminate, or homosexual or lesbian," to plead, "but mine is an exceptional case'. He wants to set 'EVERYONE' FREE FROM THEIR SIN so that it can be said of all the saints:

Revelation 12:11"And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony; and they loved not their life even unto death."

 

[Guitarhero]

If they (these shepherds and priests) WANT TO to stop the destructive behaviour, they need to acknowledge it and come out of any position that gives them access, authority and power over youth. They need 'to face' God with their struggle instead of hiding behind God. They need to remove themselves from the temptation. That might include not being a pastor or a priest or having any contact with children.

A true shepherd 'protects' the flock. The 'wolf' eats the flock! A shepherd knows if he is a wolf! no matter how much he is in denial. He knows!

Incredibly wise words!!!! We are more concerned with what humans will think rather than what G-d has to help us live. What a week...the most honest thing I've ever shared with anybody. But I just feel free. It's time for the next phase of life, of those blessings to come. I know and believe they will come.

I believe in symbolism and G-d has used it in my life because of my heritage. Last week, during a ceremony, when the eagle came, I knew Creator had blessed us because we honored Him. Then when the butterflies came and I saw the fluff eagle feather on the ground and the two white lumes, I knew that the Mohawk saint had heard me again. Iknew the bufferfly was a symbol of renewal, of freedom and of travel, the next step.

It was this time last year that I witnessed a awesome miracles during a few hours. We went back to that place but could not access the land. They had removed the virgin-birthed buffaloes, white and black (red heiffer...symbol of renewal and the age to come of peace). But as I realize that many sacred ceremonies cannot be filmed...are only for memory, that day, too, was for memory. I'll have to pass this down so the next generations believe as I believe in Creator, as generations before me believed in Creator. I was meant to come to this point and I'm freer than I've ever been.

 

[star]

Thanks Shimmie for a great post of prayer and power. I stand also agreement that truth will prevail that no innocent person will be harmed, no matter who it is.