4b's rejoice!! Now you TOO can get curl definition like the rest!! YAY!

[CocoGlow]

I don't understand why everyone is criticizing this woman so roughly. The fact of the matter is, as embarrasing or hurtful as it might be to some to admit, 4b/c/z is widely disregarded as fuzzy, unattractive, unmanageable, by naturals, relaxed heads, everyone. It seems to me that she wanted to do the "right" thing by going natural and making her hair healthier and longer, but she's getting negative reactions from it. I've experienced the some of the same things. A guy called me a "nappy headed b****" the other day. He would NOT have said that to a 3 anything. It's hurtful. You want to do the best thing for you, but no one will let you be. I'm not mad at her for saying her hair is coarse, rough, dry, etc. It probably is. I think a lot of 4bs have experienced the same internal feelings. It's part of the journey. People don't just come off automatically saying "I got this coarse hair that's so different from my relaxed hair and I'm just so estactic about it and okay with it!" Where they do that at? Magical hair fairy land? It takes time, practice, and extreme amounts of patience to come to love your hair in its natural state, and even once you love it, everyone might still say it's ugly! So she spends hours manipulating it so it looks 'prettier'. So what! Don't some spend hours blowdrying and flatironing? Don't all hair types spend hours getting weaves? People can say whatever they want about protective styling, but weaves are a way to get another texture to play with if you want to. And all those styles last at least a week! Is that wrong too?
Face it, blk women spend hours on our hair. Let this woman be.
Also, for those of you who are so down on this woman for how she feels about her hair, I'm sincerely glad you've never felt the sting of internal negativity about anything regarding your skin tone/texture/color, weight, shape, or any other physical trait. I'm glad you never felt the need to tweak anything about yourself and can feel so bad for others that sometimes have had the unfortunate misfortune of wishing something on them was just a little bit different.

Like what was mentioned in another thread about this lady on YouTube...she has not yet gone through the mental transformation of accepting and then loving her natural texture .. this is very apparent in her videos ...

Neither I myself nor the other 4Bs that have commented ever stated or implied that we "never felt the sting of internal negativity" regarding some part of ourselves including our hair! The point is ... we don't continue to wallow in it and continue on the quest for "fixing" our tresses to look like another texture ... we are not OK w/ the self-loathing ... we understand her struggle but don't agree that the struggle has to continue..

By opening up the discussion with threads like these, we are stating LOUD and CLEAR that we have 4B hair and we find it beautiful and we are learning/have learned how to embrace our texture and are aware of the many advantages of this texture and the many wonderful styles that can be achieved w/ this texure

An we are not cool w/ her clear disdain for her/our texture

This is not to bash her for her feelings ... we are simply acknowledging that her train of thought is non-productive, non-progessive and something that must be addressed and hopefully changed! Like I stated earlier I truly feel sad for her and others who think like her ..

And YES I did at one time have similar feelings about type 3 hair being easier to manage than my 4B tight, hard to moisturize coils and was a little mesmerized by the shiny clumped coils/curls of others... I just didn't go as far as she did with the self-loathing .... and the reason WHY is I educated myself on forums like this and was inspired by other 4Bs on blogs, fotki, etc

 

[*~*Afrolicious*~*]

Total sarcasm on my part in the title. :/

So I had to find this lady due to a natural acquaintance of mine (one of those soul sistah, mother earthy, not so fond of white people, all black people who get relaxers are devil mind infested types who's soon to not even be that) and saw the lady put up a new video.

Is having a lil curl THAT important that you have to shlack your hair with gel and brush for 5 minutes and then take about THREE to FOUR HOURS just for some curl definition??

REALLY?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0NU8gpBK4c

It's like...that's the only thing she dedicates her videos to.

DON'T GET ME WRONG.

It's not even the fact that she does this (heck, I rake some gel through my hair sometimes) and takes so long on it (I'm still floored, five hours?) It's the way she constantly speaks disdainfully of her own texture in all her videos that's just kind of sad. Like in one video "I went from dull, kinky, nappy bushy, cottony hair to to these gorgeous, spirally, shiny curls" and "There's something you can do with this type of hair to get these pretty curls. You can get definition, thank God!"

I know we all want to switch things up and all. And I know a few natural folk are quick to call relaxed heads "SELF HATERS" because they wear their hair straight. But unless you see someone with relaxed hair take on the "Oooh, my hair was so ugly and nappy, but ooh wee, look how lush and soft and bouncy, I got that white girl flow nah!" mindset, it's just a way to wear their hair. And you have just as many "self hating" naturals as people claim relaxed people can be.

Oh, and said acquaintance said of the lady "Well, at least she still loves curly hair. Black folks can have curly hair. But straight hair? No, something is just wrong *cue rant on brainwashing*" She doesn't even see that not embracing what you have, even as a natural is just as bad as running to get a relaxer at the sign of one kink just because it's "kinky, bushy and just nappy"

I digress. :/

Girl you betta PREACH!

 

[tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT]

1st will say this!!!! I ALMOST FELL OF THE BED WHEN I READ THE DESCRIPTION....BECAUSE I KNEW EXACTLY WHO YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!

2ND!!! i'm embarrassed to say, I'm newly natural and when I first say her video...i was like OK that's what i should do? so i went out and bought the largest eco style gel sold in the U.S. and went to work!!!!! i mean i looked like a wet frog when i was done

but yes, I followed her advice (THAWT I WAS DOING IT BIG!!!)

 

[lovegymnasts]

I'm not mad at her for saying her hair is coarse, rough, dry, etc. It probably is. I think a lot of 4bs have experienced the same internal feelings. It's part of the journey. People don't just come off automatically saying "I got this coarse hair that's so different from my relaxed hair and I'm just so estactic about it and okay with it!" Where they do that at? Magical hair fairy land? It takes time, practice, and extreme amounts of patience to come to love your hair in its natural state, and even once you love it, everyone might still say it's ugly!

This just jumped out at me and I had to say something.
Not everyone who has type 4 hair had to go through a journey to accept their hair. Okay, I'm not a 4b. I'm a 4a and it ain't silky. It's still a fro when dry and there ain't nothing wrong with that.
It did not take me time, practice, and extreme amounts of patience to come to love my hair. I loved it from day 1. I'm not exaggerating. I expected to be a 4b before I knew what 4b and hair boards were. If I had turned out to have 4b hair, I still would love my hair. I'm also heavier than I should be and have skin that easily scars but I'm not going to feel ashamed or less because of it. If you can't love yourself, no one else will.
When I first bc-ed, I didn't really get the negative comments except from my sister (nappy, buckwheat) but I got the looks. One lady almost fell out of her chair and her eyes bugged out because my naps were showing. I just shook my head at her. I told my sister to stop the self-hatred.

The above is from one person who does not have angst about the hair that grows out of their head. (maybe that was one sentence too mucherplexed)

 

[Aviah]

Boy. I just wanted to add that if andre created this hair type system, and you want to use it, you gotta play by HIS descriptions. If generally you do not have a coil pattern and or zig zags, according to that, you're 4b. If your hair doesn't fit that description, or any other, just say. Many people don't fit that system. But to say you're 4b and have curls to me is like saying you're type 1 with curls- really is what it is. Lol at the uproar.

 

[song_of_serenity]

I don't get what the problem here is either.erplexed Why assume this woman has ''self hate'' simply because she chooses to go through what YOU (everyone who's criticizing her) feels is ''too much'' work??? What about naturals or people like myself who are on extremely long stretches, who need to spend 2 or more hours with their Maxiglides and Sedus to get their hair straight? Or people who endure the scorching heat of Dominican blowouts to get that ''swang'' in their hair?? Or who spend 5+ hours at the African salon getting braids put in? All of this could come across as a little extra to some people too, but it'd be the silliest thing in the world to accuse people who do these things of hating themselves or their hair just because they opt to take the steps necessary to get a style they feel is more convenient, manageable or flattering.

The end result looks great and if she thinks it's worth the effort more power to her.

Did you actually see what I wrote when I said it was BEYOND her spending that much time?

ALL of her videos talk about how her regular hair is tough, unmanageable, nappy, kinky (said in a negative way) and oh "Thank God" she can get a curl pattern in her regular hair, essentially forcing it to be what it's not and rejoicing she has hair like those "3 and 4a girls get fresh out the shower"

You clearly also bypassed when I used the relaxer aspect, too.

People need to READ everything and draw a complete conclusion instead of focusing on the ONE ASPECT I said wasn't even my main topic of discussion.

 

[Creatividual]

She's just one of many victims of the hair texture hierarchy. This will continue until we learn to not only accept but embrace and appreciate the beauty of 4b hair in the same way that love is easily displayed for 3c and other curly hair types.

Eta: I wish people would stop calling their hair 4b just because it is 'coarse, rough, and difficult to handle'. Those attributes can come with any curl pattern!

At the bolded, grrrrrrl, YES!

 

[SND411]

Boy. I just wanted to add that if andre created this hair type system, and you want to use it, you gotta play by HIS descriptions. If generally you do not have a coil pattern and or zig zags, according to that, you're 4b. If your hair doesn't fit that description, or any other, just say. Many people don't fit that system. But to say you're 4b and have curls to me is like saying you're type 1 with curls- really is what it is. Lol at the uproar.

You know what I notice? Everything that has to do with black people's hair type or skin color is always made 1000x more complicated. Notice how type 1, 2, and for the most part 3a and 3b are almost always clear cut. But once you get into the 3c/4a/4b, things always become very confusing. Why is that? Are people trying to avoid a certain hair type like the plague?

 

[Creatividual]

Did you actually see what I wrote when I said it was BEYOND her spending that much time?

ALL of her videos talk about how her regular hair is tough, unmanageable, nappy, kinky (said in a negative way) and oh "Thank God" she can get a curl pattern in her regular hair, essentially forcing it to be what it's not and rejoicing she has hair like those "3 and 4a girls get fresh out the shower"

You clearly also bypassed when I used the relaxer aspect, too.

People need to READ everything and draw a complete conclusion instead of focusing on the ONE ASPECT I said wasn't even my main topic of discussion.

Well I don't think she's "forcing" her hair to be something it's not. It's obviously curly and just doesn't clump on its own without product and some manipulation. If her hair can do that with gel, she obviously HAS a curl pattern so it's kinda crazy that she's even saying that in the first place. If you don't have a curl/wave pattern, all the gel in the world isn't going to create one.

It is sad that she doesn't like all aspects of her hair though. It's one thing to prefer your hair a certain way. It's another, quite sad, when you have disdain for it. erplexed

 

[song_of_serenity]

She does have curls. Just not the kind she *wants*

And 4b's, as Nonie has shown, have curls...just smaller ones. Is there REALLY such a thing as C-nap? NO curl at all?

Seriously, there is NOTHING wrong with 4b hair. It's people trying to FORCE their hair to do things that they shouldn't that makes it seem "difficult." Every texture and head of hair needs different things to flourish.

Some people call their hair "nappy" and don't see it as a negative thing (they may say "a nap is a tight curl which is what my hair is") and others refuse to use that word as a descriptor of their hair because of the negative way it's used. Using it against you OWN HAIR in a NEGATIVE WAY is way different than saying "Yeah, I love my nappy hair."

Once again, for those who missed it. It's not so much the time she puts into her hair to force it into curling this way. It's the NEGATIVE WAY she speaks about her OWN NATURAL HAIR that's really sad. And the majority of us are of African descent here. Weather we are in the 2's to the deepest 4's, we know that there can be a hierarchy system for hair texture, skin texture and everything else.

Doesn't make it any more sad to see. But for everyone ragging on people relaxing their hair, it goes to show you, there's a flip side to it, too!

 

[jennboo]

This just jumped out at me and I had to say something.
Not everyone who has type 4 hair had to go through a journey to accept their hair. Okay, I'm not a 4b. I'm a 4a and it ain't silky. It's still a fro when dry and there ain't nothing wrong with that.
It did not take me time, practice, and extreme amounts of patience to come to love my hair. I loved it from day 1. I'm not exaggerating. I expected to be a 4b before I knew what 4b and hair boards were. If I had turned out to have 4b hair, I still would love my hair. I'm also heavier than I should be and have skin that easily scars but I'm not going to feel ashamed or less because of it. If you can't love yourself, no one else will.
When I first bc-ed, I didn't really get the negative comments except from my sister (nappy, buckwheat) but I got the looks. One lady almost fell out of her chair and her eyes bugged out because my naps were showing. I just shook my head at her. I told my sister to stop the self-hatred.

The above is from one person who does not have angst about the hair that grows out of their head. (maybe that was one sentence too mucherplexed)

Bolded: Exactly.

I did not need to chant 50 times a day to myself that my hair is beautiful, didn't have to seek validation from other folks about my type 4 hair, didnt need to engage in some deep mind-soul experience to accept what grows out of my own head (woop-de-doo for me, right? ). I was also not one of the many women who decided to go natural ONLY because their relaxed hair had gone to crap. That seems to be a theme here as well, folks going natural solely as a last resort type of thing because the relaxer had wreaked havoc on their strands.

The woman in that video has issues... point blank period...that's fine and we all know where her issues stem from. We ALL have issues, but the key is to work through them in a healthy way. Her "journey" toward self-acceptance is counterproductive and does nothing but perpetuate her thinking that the only way her hair looks good is when it is in a state that mimics a completely different, looser texture.

 

[song_of_serenity]

Bolded: Exactly.

I did not need to chant 50 times a day to myself that my hair is beautiful, didn't have to seek validation from other folks about my type 4 hair, didnt need to engage in some deep mind-soul experience to accept what grows out of my own head (woop-de-doo for me, right? ). I was also not one of the many women who decided to go natural ONLY because their relaxed hair had gone to crap. That seems to be a theme here as well, folks going natural solely as a last resort type of thing because the relaxer had wreaked havoc on their strands.

The woman in that video has issues... point blank period...that's fine and we all know where her issues stem from. We ALL have issues, but the key is to work through them in a healthy way. Her "journey" toward self-acceptance is counterproductive and does nothing but perpetuate her thinking that the only way her hair looks good is when it is in a state that mimics a completely different, looser texture.

Pretty much. :/ Not everyone who has 4b texture has "deep rooted issues" and we must feel pity. PUHLEASE.

The majority of us are BLACK or partially so and because we are people of color, we face MANY hardships because of it. They have some people who bemoan their skin color and bleach/lighten up foundation/x, y, z. And then you have the most of us who go "Oh, well. I am who I am. I see the issues around because of who I was born as but take me or leave me, I am black and proud of it!"

Same goes for hair. Yes, if you're born with a certain texture, you may see others with a looser one get a lot of ooohs and ahhhs. But oh well, your hair is your hair and they like it or not! You recognize it is what it is, but geeze, stop acting like everyone is going to have issues because of it and you need to have a come to Jesus moment to "finally see the light" and accept it!

 

[Nonie]

Boy. I just wanted to add that if andre created this hair type system, and you want to use is, you gotta play by HIS descriptions. If generally you do not have a coil pattern and or zig zags, according to that, you're 4b. If your hair doesn't fit that description, or any other, just say. Many people don't fit that system. But to say you're 4b and have curls to me is like saying you're type 1 with curls- really is what it is. Lol at the uproar.

If Andre had type 4B hair, I'd listen to him. But the hair he sees is manipulated hair. I've never seen anyone who has cut his/her hair have zigzag growing out of their head. If they didn't ever comb their hair, it'd probably end up looking like this:

...or like this:

The "hair without pattern" is always hair that is manipulated. All my life, my hair looked like this:

...or like this:

...or like this:

And to someone like Andre, that hair has no pattern, because he only ever sees it manipulated. My hair looked like that with product and combed. My hair looks like that when I take it out of braids, with or without product. But if I wash it and put nothing on it, and don't manipulate it, it forms curls.

It's funny but everyone with 4B hair understood that Andre was talking about their hair. Even I did, because I think 4B hair of all the hairs is the only one that can look formless. But it doesn't mean it grows out your head like that. I think there are enough 4B heads on the forum that have proven that. And you can differentiate them from 4A because they can't get easily clumping coils. And if the YTer is 4B, the time it takes her to get clumped coils is a clue that it isn't something EASY for 4B to do. 4A's just need to "wash and go" to get those results.

If Andre was so right about 4B hair, so how is it that the tiny hairs that have not been manipulated along the hairline form little circles?

Why don't they stick up in pointy sharp cornered shapes? They always seem to take the most natural shape for the hair...which isn't zigzag. *shrug*

 

[song_of_serenity]

^ I knew you'd come with the knowledge.

People hear one thing and run with "Well, 4bs can't curl at ALL, if you see a curl or you can use gel, you CAN'T be a 4b!"

That is simply NOT true!! 4b hAS curls, just much, much smaller ones. Trust me, the lady not only used gel, but she coils her hair around her fingers to make it form the curls. 4b hair can twist out, braid out and if you have the right styling aid, you can do finger coils, even brush, brush and get some definition!

 

[***BlessedMom***]

If Andre had type 4B hair, I'd listen to him. But the hair he sees is manipulated hair. I've never seen anyone who has cut his/her hair have zigzag growing out of their head. If they didn't ever comb their hair, it'd probably end up looking like this:

...or like this:

The "hair without pattern" is always hair that is manipulated. All my life, my hair looked like this:

...or like this:

...or like this:

And to someone like Andre, that hair has no pattern, because he only ever sees it manipulated. My hair looked like that with product and combed. My hair looks like that when I take it out of braids, with or without product. But if I wash it and put nothing on it, and don't manipulate it, it forms curls.

It's funny but everyone with 4B hair understood that Andre was talking about their hair. Even I did, because I think 4B hair of all the hairs is the only one that can look formless. But it doesn't mean it grows out your head like that. I think there are enough 4B heads on the forum that have proven that. And you can differentiate them from 4A because they can't get easily clumping coils. And if the YTer is 4B, the time it takes her to get clumped coils is a clue that it isn't something EASY for 4B to do. 4A's just need to "wash and go" to get those results.

If Andre was so right about 4B hair, so how is it that the tiny hairs that have not been manipulated along the hairline form little circles?

Why don't they stick up in pointy sharp cornered shapes? They always seem to take the most natural shape for the hair...which isn't zigzag. *shrug*

Nonie- Is the lady at the top and the girls at the bottom 4b?

 

[Creatividual]

This is exactly why I don't care for Andre's system. It's too broad and creates debates/discussions that aren't necessary. I just wish we stopped putting hair's beauty into a box. I long for the day (that may not ever come) when hair will just be hair and that's it.

 

[belldandy]

After reading this thread, I just feel like so what?

If she wants curl definition, then I say, who cares...

We can't get upset over ever youtube rant.... lots of these popping up nowadays.

 

[jennboo]

Another thing i'd like to point out is that by saying things like: "But 4b hair can be curly too!" we are still exalting the hair textures that are naturally occurring and dominant to other people/races (and not to us). Let's be real, when folks talk about curly hair, they are not referencing the 'curls/coils', if any, of type 4 hair. WE need to be our own standard of beauty. It's like when black people say "hey, we can get sleek straight hair too, or we can have green/blue eyes too!"... It's kind of like we need to say those things to prove to other races/people that we are just as good as good as they are because we can possess (either through chemicals, alterations or rarely naturally) the traits endemic to their people...this does nothing for embracing the traits/features naturally occurring and dominant in our own race.

 

[belldandy]

Total sarcasm on my part in the title. :/

So I had to find this lady due to a natural acquaintance of mine (one of those soul sistah, mother earthy, not so fond of white people, all black people who get relaxers are devil mind infested types who's soon to not even be that) and saw the lady put up a new video.

Is having a lil curl THAT important that you have to shlack your hair with gel and brush for 5 minutes and then take about THREE to FOUR HOURS just for some curl definition??

REALLY?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0NU8gpBK4c

It's like...that's the only thing she dedicates her videos to.

DON'T GET ME WRONG.

It's not even the fact that she does this (heck, I rake some gel through my hair sometimes) and takes so long on it (I'm still floored, five hours?) It's the way she constantly speaks disdainfully of her own texture in all her videos that's just kind of sad. Like in one video "I went from dull, kinky, nappy bushy, cottony hair to to these gorgeous, spirally, shiny curls" and "There's something you can do with this type of hair to get these pretty curls. You can get definition, thank God!"

I know we all want to switch things up and all. And I know a few natural folk are quick to call relaxed heads "SELF HATERS" because they wear their hair straight. But unless you see someone with relaxed hair take on the "Oooh, my hair was so ugly and nappy, but ooh wee, look how lush and soft and bouncy, I got that white girl flow nah!" mindset, it's just a way to wear their hair. And you have just as many "self hating" naturals as people claim relaxed people can be.

Oh, and said acquaintance said of the lady "Well, at least she still loves curly hair. Black folks can have curly hair. But straight hair? No, something is just wrong *cue rant on brainwashing*" She doesn't even see that not embracing what you have, even as a natural is just as bad as running to get a relaxer at the sign of one kink just because it's "kinky, bushy and just nappy"

I digress. :/

Gosh, it's just really not that deep to me.
People are doing a lot worse things, more self hating that manipulating the hair on their heads or relaxing it.
I'm not sure what the uproar is about :/

 

[Nonie]

Nonie- Is the lady at the top and the girls at the bottom 4b?

My guess would be yes. They just have tinier coils than say I do and maybe their hair strands aren't as fine as mine. I think this is where the LOIS more precise definition comes in. When we talk of 4B, we are only referring to the curl size, not the diameter of the strands or texture.

Another thing to consider is, our hair behaves differently when it is dry. When we condition our hair, we don't just coat the outside, but many of us also deep condition so that the hair is moisturized from the inside out. I can personally say that when I started DCing my hair, I discovered a softness I never knew I had.

So my guess would be yes, they are 4B with coarser strands than mine.

Here's a photo of my hair braided when I used Shea Butter instead of S Curl on my hair. I was also using CON and many other products that my fellow naturals used (instead of keeping it simple). I don't know if you can see it in the pic but my hair was hard to part and comb, and was a lot like the girls at the end of my post:

Compare that with my hair after I stopped using too many products and gave up the dry products in favor of water-based moisturizers and focused more on DCing and baggying nightly to keep my hair moisturized rather than layered with dry products. In other words, once I figured out how to keep my hair moisturized, it became so soft and even looks soft and parted more easily:

 

[Lexib]

As stated before it's more about her attitude and the self-hating comments about her own hair and how she obviously wishes it was "easy" like type 3 hair than her technique per se ... however, I personally would not be brushing my hair w/ globs of gel for 4 hours ... that's just not for me

No, I understood you the first time. My first post was more of an address to the comments throughout the thread about how long it takes. But honestly, even as far as her perceived attitude goes...I still don't see a problem.

So she's not in love with her natural texture. I'd be hard pressed to think of a single woman I've ever known who hasn't at one point wished their hair was different in some way, but I'd never accuse any of them of self hatred. Tell me, would it have come across as badly if all of her videos were about her dying her hair and she was speaking disdainfully about her natural hair color - saying it was dull and boring and that she always envied people w/ x-color hair, thought it was prettier, etc ? I just don't get why it's so shocking and such a bad thing that she wishes her hair naturally looked or performed a certain way. To me, it's not an indication of hate so much as an indication of preference.

Personally, I think the soft cottony look of type 4 hair can be very pretty but I'd be lying if I said I didn't wish the hair that grew out of my head behaved differently. I wish that [FONT=&quot]I could run my hands through my unaltered 4b hair and have all the strands fall in my face, or wash it on a weekday morning and just let it airdry on the way to work [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]([/FONT]ooh, how I envy those damp-haired ******s on the train, just chillin' w/o a care in the world![FONT=&quot][/FONT]! [FONT=&quot])[/FONT][FONT=&quot] and the queen mother of them all, that I didn't have to spend 1/2 an hour pre and post wash detangling, conditioning and banding my hair just to make sure that I could get a comb through it when it dried. And I know these sentiments are not foreign...[/FONT]

I don't know. It seems like the biggest thing ''wrong'' with what that woman said is that she actually said it. [FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[belldandy]

Or wearing weave or extenstion braids to hide her natural short "4B" hair while it grows out to be longer?


ITA, its all about preference. Its her hair. If she wants to sit there for hours and do that then okay...I rather be dc'ing though, all that gel can be drying.

No, I understood you the first time. My first post was more of an address to the comments throughout the thread about how long it takes. But honestly, even as far as her perceived attitude goes...I still don't see a problem.

So she's not in love with her natural texture. I'd be hard pressed to think of a single woman I've ever known who hasn't at one point wished their hair was different in some way, but I'd never accuse any of them of self hatred. Tell me, would it have come across as badly if all of her videos were about her dying her hair and she was speaking disdainfully about her natural hair color - saying it was dull and boring and that she always envied people w/ x-color hair, thought it was prettier, etc? I just don't get why it's so shocking and such a bad thing that she wishes her hair naturally looked or performed a certain way. To me, it's not an indication of hate so much as an indication of preference.

Personally, I think the soft cottony look of type 4 hair can be very pretty but I'd be lying if I said I didn't wish the hair that grew out of my head behaved differently. I wish that I could run my hands through my unaltered 4b hair and have all the strands fall in my face, or wash it on a weekday morning and just let it airdry on the way to work [FONT=&quot]([/FONT]ooh, how I envy those damp-haired ******s on the train, just chillin' w/o a care in the world!! [FONT=&quot])[/FONT][FONT=&quot] and the queen mother of them all, that I didn't have to spend 1/2 an hour pre and post wash detangling, conditioning and banding my hair just to make sure that I could get a comb through it when it dried. And I know these sentiments are not foreign...[/FONT]

I don't know. It seems like the biggest thing ''wrong'' with what that woman said is that she actually said it.

 

[CocoGlow]

Another thing i'd like to point out is that by saying things like: "But 4b hair can be curly too!" we are still exalting the hair textures that are naturally occurring and dominant to other people/races (and not to us). Let's be real, when folks talk about curly hair, they are not referencing the 'curls/coils', if any, of type 4 hair. WE need to be our own standard of beauty. It's like when black people say "hey, we can get sleek straight hair too, or we can have green/blue eyes too!"... It's kind of like we need to say those things to prove to other races/people that we are just as good as good as they are because we can possess (either through chemicals, alterations or rarely naturally) the traits endemic to their people...this does nothing for embracing the traits/features naturally occurring and dominant in our own race.

Right on ... right on sis!

As if 4B texture is not good enough AS IS .. like we have to "train" it in order for it to be acceptable/pretty .. if sister girl has to do all that work to get her coils to clump, then obviously curl definition is a no go ...

like I stated earlier: why is coil/curl definition put on such a high pedestal like it's the end all be all of natural hair?

And I am sooo sick of people saying things like: "If only you would moisturize better, you would see curl definition" - say what???

Like my 4B hair cannot be healthy & moisturized and STILL be undefined/clumped -- all moisture is going to do is make my hair easier to manage & avoid damage, it's not going to magically force my coils to clump together - if anything it's going to make the fluffy cottony cloud more apparent ..which is all good with me!

 

[lovegymnasts]

Tell me, would it have come across as badly if all of her videos were about her dying her hair and she was speaking disdainfully about her natural hair color - saying it was dull and boring and that she always envied people w/ x-color hair, thought it was prettier, etc ? I just don't get why it's so shocking and such a bad thing that she wishes her hair naturally looked or performed a certain way. To me, it's not an indication of hate so much as an indication of preference.

Actually, I don't understand coloring you hair either but I ain't going to touch that. I ask people why they do it especially Anglo people. I don't get it. The people I know always seem to go lighter.

 

[Lexib]

Did you actually see what I wrote when I said it was BEYOND her spending that much time?

ALL of her videos talk about how her regular hair is tough, unmanageable, nappy, kinky (said in a negative way) and oh "Thank God" she can get a curl pattern in her regular hair, essentially forcing it to be what it's not and rejoicing she has hair like those "3 and 4a girls get fresh out the shower"

You clearly also bypassed when I used the relaxer aspect, too.

People need to READ everything and draw a complete conclusion instead of focusing on the ONE ASPECT I said wasn't even my main topic of discussion.

Yeah babe, I read it...still not that big of a deal. And please, let's not take this to the '''' level. Pretty juvenile imo.

 

[Aviah]

You know what I notice? Everything that has to do with black people's hair type or skin color is always made 1000x more complicated. Notice how type 1, 2, and for the most part 3a and 3b are almost always clear cut. But once you get into the 3c/4a/4b, things always become very confusing. Why is that? Are people trying to avoid a certain hair type like the plague?

Possibly. I also feel many class themselves as 4b and they're not. But I'm not here to argue with anyone about their hair type. If the yt woman's unhappy about her hairtype, sorry to hear that. But nobody can change that but her, ultimately. Its sad but widespread. I also think some pointing fingers about prejudice may be uncomfortable in themselves too. Whatever it is when we all sign off and live our real lives we gotta deal with the protein on our heads. Its what's underneath it that counts.

 

[jennboo]

No, I understood you the first time. My first post was more of an address to the comments throughout the thread about how long it takes. But honestly, even as far as her perceived attitude goes...I still don't see a problem.

So she's not in love with her natural texture. I'd be hard pressed to think of a single woman I've ever known who hasn't at one point wished their hair was different in some way, but I'd never accuse any of them of self hatred. Tell me, would it have come across as badly if all of her videos were about her dying her hair and she was speaking disdainfully about her natural hair color - saying it was dull and boring and that she always envied people w/ x-color hair, thought it was prettier, etc ? I just don't get why it's so shocking and such a bad thing that she wishes her hair naturally looked or performed a certain way. To me, it's not an indication of hate so much as an indication of preference.

Personally, I think the soft cottony look of type 4 hair can be very pretty but I'd be lying if I said I didn't wish the hair that grew out of my head behaved differently. I wish that I could run my hands through my unaltered 4b hair and have all the strands fall in my face, or wash it on a weekday morning and just let it airdry on the way to work [FONT=&quot]([/FONT]ooh, how I envy those damp-haired ******s on the train, just chillin' w/o a care in the world!! [FONT=&quot])[/FONT][FONT=&quot]and the queen mother of them all, that I didn't have to spend 1/2 an hour pre and post wash detangling, conditioning and banding my hair just to make sure that I could get a comb through it when it dried. And I know these sentiments are not foreign...[/FONT]

I don't know. It seems like the biggest thing ''wrong'' with what that woman said is that she actually said it.

That must STINK to have to deal with those feelings on a daily basis! The fact that you will NEVER be able to attain what you want naturally . Sorry you feel that way!

 

[Nonie]

And I am sooo sick of people saying things like: "If only you would moisturize better, you would see curl definition" - say what???

Like my 4B hair cannot be healthy & moisturized and STILL be undefined/clumped -- all moisture is going to do is make my hair easier to manage & avoid damage, it's not going to magically force my coils to clump together - if anything it's going to make the fluffy cottony cloud more apparent ..which is all good with me!

I'm guilty of telling people that and the only reason I do is because they swear their hair grows out of their head without a pattern. That I find very hard to believe, even though I spent 20+ years of my life sporting hair that bore no pattern except when it was a TWA. I don't say it will clump like 4A, but I promise them it will form coils that yes, look like a cloud from afar but are clearly coils when seen close up. I sported CNapps all my life and even when I washed it, I didn't think there was any pattern.

But I was using so many products, and my hair was coated with CON and had a dullness to it. It was so ironic that the day I clarified and gave up the moisturizing CON that I had loved so much, and focused more on DCing so that my hair is actually moisturized and not coated, I found out my hair is actually softer than I ever knew. And saw my coils for the first time.

But do I wear my hair in styles that show the coils? Hardly. I don't even care that they aren't seen. Mwedzi can tell you that I think combed out afro are the most beautiful hairstyles on type 4B hair ever. But I go out of my way to tell people how to see them coz I know people LOVE coils, plus it seems so important to some to know that their hair has coils. I also love how soft my hair has become since I stopped doing too much to it, and how cheaper it is to care for, and I like to share stuff I learn about my hair. My mom, who couldn't care less about type 3 hair, appreciated the regimen I showed her and my introducing her to S Curl in place of her grease, not because it made her coils show, but because it make her hair soft and easier to manage. She loves that she doesn't have to spend hours after washing her hair, stretching it with heat to make it manageable. She loves that she went from spending about an hour to get her hair to a comb-able state that ended up looking like this and feeling very dry...to spending under 5 minutes after washing it to get it to look like this and be very soft and easy to comb. Also there are many people who hate that they cannot get an afro shape that is round. Again, what makes it easy to get a round afro shape as you see in my mom's hair or mine here is because of the coils. There are type 4 people who have never seen their hair form a nice round afro and so learning how to bring out coils in their hair can help them in their quest to create that round afro. You can see that before my mom learned to properly moisturize (I introduced her to DCing and replaced her grease with S Curl and also baggying at night instead of using a scarf that continues to rob her hair of moisture) in the previous photos, she had a weird shaped afro. She would spend hours patting it into place and still not get a round shape. Coils have shortened her styling time and the style also holds better all day.

Indeed 4B hair can be healthy and moisturized and not show coils. In fact that's how most of us with 4B hair have our hair. But I am grateful to know all the different aspects of my hair including the fact that it is coily and find the hair so fascinating and versatile and can't help sharing all I know and continue to discover about it.

 

[Aviah]

If Andre had type 4B hair, I'd listen to him. But the hair he sees is manipulated hair. I've never seen anyone who has cut his/her hair have zigzag growing out of their head. If they didn't ever comb their hair, it'd probably end up looking like this:

...or like this:

The "hair without pattern" is always hair that is manipulated. All my life, my hair looked like this:

...or like this:

...or like this:

And to someone like Andre, that hair has no pattern, because he only ever sees it manipulated. My hair looked like that with product and combed. My hair looks like that when I take it out of braids, with or without product. But if I wash it and put nothing on it, and don't manipulate it, it forms curls.

It's funny but everyone with 4B hair understood that Andre was talking about their hair. Even I did, because I think 4B hair of all the hairs is the only one that can look formless. But it doesn't mean it grows out your head like that. I think there are enough 4B heads on the forum that have proven that. And you can differentiate them from 4A because they can't get easily clumping coils. And if the YTer is 4B, the time it takes her to get clumped coils is a clue that it isn't something EASY for 4B to do. 4A's just need to "wash and go" to get those results.

If Andre was so right about 4B hair, so how is it that the tiny hairs that have not been manipulated along the hairline form little circles?

Why don't they stick up in pointy sharp cornered shapes? They always seem to take the most natural shape for the hair...which isn't zigzag. *shrug*

Fair point. Still, like I said, if your hair doesn't fit his descriptions you do not fall into the system. Its according to him if we want to use his system. We can't say its his system then call our hair something he wasn't talking about. That way we understand roughly what each other talk about, as I accept, we don't all fit neatly- I'm one of them. But I don't care for typing much anymore, outside of where its really necessary (which for me it rarely is). If his typing system doesn't really fit your hair, make your own description, post pics should it matter that much in any circumstance or in general.

It also may not be fair to say if andre had 4b hair he'd be more credible. As we've seen, we for so many years had afro/curly hair, and had others without the same hairtype educate us on it. So long as you study/work with hair you could qualify to speak, at least to some degree. Hair's a diverse thing. I didn't say he was so right, I just said its his system...

 

[tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT]

If Andre had type 4B hair, I'd listen to him. But the hair he sees is manipulated hair. I've never seen anyone who has cut his/her hair have zigzag growing out of their head. If they didn't ever comb their hair, it'd probably end up looking like this:

...or like this:

The "hair without pattern" is always hair that is manipulated. All my life, my hair looked like this:

...or like this:

...or like this:

And to someone like Andre, that hair has no pattern, because he only ever sees it manipulated. My hair looked like that with product and combed. My hair looks like that when I take it out of braids, with or without product. But if I wash it and put nothing on it, and don't manipulate it, it forms curls.

It's funny but everyone with 4B hair understood that Andre was talking about their hair. Even I did, because I think 4B hair of all the hairs is the only one that can look formless. But it doesn't mean it grows out your head like that. I think there are enough 4B heads on the forum that have proven that. And you can differentiate them from 4A because they can't get easily clumping coils. And if the YTer is 4B, the time it takes her to get clumped coils is a clue that it isn't something EASY for 4B to do. 4A's just need to "wash and go" to get those results.

If Andre was so right about 4B hair, so how is it that the tiny hairs that have not been manipulated along the hairline form little circles?

Why don't they stick up in pointy sharp cornered shapes? They always seem to take the most natural shape for the hair...which isn't zigzag. *shrug*

wow....people ask i just guess...dnt even know my "hair type"....kinda dnt give a damn....i seems to change anyway
a few of these kids have gorgeous faces....i think of ALEK the supermodel, and I always see more beautiful faces.
Natural beauty, no effort

i love homegurl hair in the 1st pic

(special thanks to the big Homie "nonie" for correcting my spelling!! on Alek) lmao