Is hair texture the new paper bag test???

[werenumber2]

back in slavery times there was a fine toothed comb test to go with the brown paper bag test

I don't know what they thought they were pulling with that one, given all the "straight off the Mayflower" white people who can't even get a fine tooth comb through their hair.

SLAVERY FAIL

 

[whitedaisez]

well honestly, i think many loose textured haired pple here lie and claim a tighter texture to be accepted. here in dis forum pple also buy into de good/bad hair thing where if ur hair texture is loose but long and healthy, dey think oh u av dat good hair u prolly dint av 2 wrk too hard to achieve results.

But if u av long healthy hair with a tight texture, pple think it must have been more of a challenge for u to achieve good results since u av bad/ difficult hair; so they say BRAVO BRAVO u wrked so hard u deserve it, u've broken de 'black women cant grow hair' stereotype.

since those with loose textures are now left out, they seek more praise and glory for their hardwrk by claiming type 4 when dey r clearly a 3a! dis way pple will recognize their efforts since their hair would now be 'categorized' as bad/difficult. but dats my opinion anyways, dont stone me PLEASE

 

[jamaraa]

werenumber2 Actually "the comb test" and others like it (see Blue Vein Society and Brown Men groups) came more from certain secret societies and groups based in Free Colored communities and their descendants. It really dates from the end of slavery as a way to distinguish between Blacks and Colored, if you will, once freedome came to everyone. It was a way to work past the "eyeball test".

 

[Newlife2011]

IA with those who say people with looser textures seem to be unwelcomed. I cant tell you how many predominately white,indian,hispanic websites I have seen reference longhaircareforum.com for hair care tips. Why dont I see any of them POSTING here? Please ask yourselves.

 

[Bene]

well honestly, i think many loose textured haired pple here lie and claim a tighter texture to be accepted. here in dis forum pple also buy into de good/bad hair thing where if ur hair texture is loose but long and healthy, dey think oh u av dat good hair u prolly dint av 2 wrk too hard to achieve results.

But if u av long healthy hair with a tight texture, pple think it must have been more of a challenge for u to achieve good results since u av bad/ difficult hair; so they say BRAVO BRAVO u wrked so hard u deserve it, u've broken de 'black women cant grow hair' stereotype.

since those with loose textures are now left out, they seek more praise and glory for their hardwrk by claiming type 4 when dey r clearly a 3a! dis way pple will recognize their efforts since their hair would now be 'categorized' as bad/difficult. but dats my opinion anyways, dont stone me PLEASE

I've never seen this, but I have seen the exact opposite. I've seen some people who are clearly 4a talking about "I've got some 3b-3c in my nape/edges when it's wet..." I just kind of sit here like


I'm giving people the benefit of the doubt though, because we all use different hair typing systems.

 

[Irresistible]

I've never seen this, but I have seen the exact opposite. I've seen some people who are clearly 4a talking about "I've got some 3b-3c in my nape/edges when it's wet..." I just kind of sit here like


I'm giving people the benefit of the doubt though, because we all use different hair typing systems.

It's not like it's impossible to have a different hair type on any place in your head. If you dont see pics of their napes up close and feel it and see how it behaves then how do you know they are lying?

All this worrying about what anothers hair type is and what they claim it is or even what they do with their hair , analyzing it , obsessing over it , is just wild to me

worry about your own hair

 

[Bene]

It's not like it's impossible to have a different hair type on any place in your head. If you dont see pics of their napes up close and feel it and see how it behaves then how do you know they are lying?

All this worrying about what anothers hair type is and what they claim it is or even what they do with their hair , analyzing it , obsessing over it , is just wild to me

worry about your own hair

True. I'm talking about up close pics of napes and edges. It just doesn't look like what they claim. Of course, since there are a million hair typing systems out there, I'm not worrying about someone else's hair.

 

[Irresistible]

True. I'm talking about up close pics of napes and edges. It just doesn't look like what they claim. Of course, since there are a million hair typing systems out there, I'm not worrying about someone else's hair.

well if you say so Bene

I beg to differ from a recent experience, but whatever

who cares what their real hair type is, it doesnt change yours or what you got to deal with with your own hair

I mean really, who cares?

 

[jamaraa]

IA with those who say people with looser textures seem to be unwelcomed. I cant tell you how many predominately white,indian,hispanic websites I have seen reference longhaircareforum.com for hair care tips. Why dont I see any of them POSTING here? Please ask yourselves.

This forum is known far and wide...it is on the open net and comes up 1st many times on searches hair related. We have a HUGE audience folks!

We've had WW and Asian women w/ mixed kids here in the past, but well.... that was then, this is now. Black newbs come and constantly say "please don't shoot me" so what chance does a WW or anyone else have to NOT get completely LIT UP?!

 

[Bene]

well if you say so Bene

I beg to differ from a recent experience, but whatever

who cares what their real hair type is, it doesnt change yours or what you got to deal with with your own hair

I mean really, who cares?

You're right, it doesn't change anything. But it's sort of like someone who's a size 16, claiming they wear a size 10. It doesn't change anything, but somewhere in the back of my head, I'm like . There's what is real, and there's what the person is in denial about. I would never say anything about it, but the gut reaction is still there, and I would be a liar if I said it weren't.


If you're speaking about my participation in a particular video thread, I thought I'd made it clear that I was criticizing unhealthy hair practices that were being spread under the guise of preventing/fixing damage; as well as the APL to WL in 2 months. It's unethical to make certain claims that will lead people down the wrong path. If that's what you're referring to, then yes, I do care because I wasn't criticizing her hair type, especially since it's my own. Aside from that, I haven't spoken negatively about anyone's hair type or practices, anywhere on this board.

 

[Irresistible]

You're right, it doesn't change anything. But it's sort of like someone who's a size 16, claiming they wear a size 10. It doesn't change anything, but somewhere in the back of my head, I'm like . There's what is real, and there's what the person is in denial about. I would never say anything about it, but the gut reaction is still there, and I would be a liar if I said it weren't.


If you're speaking about my participation in a particular video thread, I thought I'd made it clear that I was criticizing unhealthy hair practices that were being spread under the guise of preventing/fixing damage; as well as the APL to WL in 2 months. It's unethical to make certain claims that will lead people down the wrong path. If that's what you're referring to, then yes, I do care because I wasn't criticizing her hair type, especially since it's my own. Aside from that, I haven't spoken negatively about anyone's hair type or practices, anywhere on this board.

yeah I KNOW we heard it already , how wrong she was over and over and how it pissed you off and disturbed you over and over again, no need to repeat again

 

[Bene]

yeah I KNOW we heard it already , how wrong she was over and over and how it pissed you off and disturbed you over and over again, no need to repeat again

You brought it up as if I did something I didn't. When people stop accusing me of something I haven't done, then I will be more than happy to stop talking about it

well if you say so Bene

I beg to differ from a recent experience, but whatever

^^^^

By this comment, if you're speaking about some other thing I've said, I'd be more than happy if you would show me where so that I may apologize profusely, both privately and publicly, to whoever I've insulted and make a note to not do it again. But since I can't think of anything else, I'll be forced to assume you're talking of that one incident.

 

[jamaraa]

Here's we go again ...y'all are arguing about other people's hair. :crazy: What use is it...what good does it do? You're judging by PICS anyway. Andre sho jacked us hard w/ his "system".

Nobody OWES anybody jack....you don't HAVE to tell your texture or anything and even if you do, you may live to regret it. Folks and over something you can't even verify for yourself. Well, there's something amiss here, seriously.

Well I guess a serious discussion just went adlock:....

 

[Vintageglam]

This texture thing along with the paper bag test has been going on forever and a day. I am sure this has been mentioned before but it all goes back to slavery (house v field Negro distinction). The sad thing is though that we as a community continue to perpetuate this slave mentality.

Unfortunately LHCF is not immune to this phenomenon and sadly yes there are women here who aim to "upgrade" their texture so to speak. When this happens I just leave that post because it truly is very sad. And yes the all illusive 3C's do get more love when they show their hair porn. Don't get me wrong I am not hating but we all sat here and criticise the "Good hair" film by Chris Rock and then do the same thing ourselves (not even subconsciously I might add).

Me personally I have never wished to be anything else but the beautiful 4a/ 4b that I am. In any case I was born and bred in Africa (before moving to Europe) so it would be both stupid and irrational of me to claim anything else. Never wanted to be lighter or curly hair (trust me the other Nigerian girls and school would have cussed that crap out of you).

Its funny because as you get older you develop a greater appreciation and love for yourself. I am now very proud of my naps and kinks. I think instead of aspiring to what we can never be we should inspire our selves with the best we can be. I started "stalking" Fotki's and have recently fallen in love with Sera et al's Fotki. I just love the way that their hair is the best it can be, thick and strong in all its glory. I think it is more healthy to aspire to a realistic role model. Ok so my hair may not get that thick but I know now that it can be that beautiful hence why I have recently decided to transition. My reason for this (which I recently discussed with my fully supportive hubbie) was that I want to be an example to my daughter one day so that she can realise that whatever her hair texture it will be beautiful.

Just my two cents anyway.

 

[Irresistible]

You brought it up as if I did something I didn't. When people stop accusing me of something I haven't done, then I will be more than happy to stop talking about it

yeah I brought it up, we all know you went all out the way to find her 'damaged' hair , in a lil spot , and how it bothered you so much.......

well the 'damage' is done now

don't matter

btw you brought it up already yourself in this thread

 

[Bene]

yeah I brought it up, we all know you went all out the way to find her 'damaged' hair , in a lil spot , and how it bothered you so much.......

well the 'damage' is done now

don't matter

btw you brought it up already yourself in this thread

But you brought it up again after we've moved on. I'm not allowed to defend my actions when they have been misinterpreted or have been taken out of context?

You have every right to criticize me, just as I have the same right to disagree with your criticisms. It's only fair.

 

[Bene]

So, anyway....

This texture thing along with the paper bag test has been going on forever and a day. I am sure this has been mentioned before but it all goes back to slavery (house v field Negro distinction). The sad thing is though that we as a community continue to perpetuate this slave mentality.

Unfortunately LHCF is not immune to this phenomenon and sadly yes there are women here who aim to "upgrade" their texture so to speak. When this happens I just leave that post because it truly is very sad. And yes the all illusive 3C's do get more love when they show their hair porn. Don't get me wrong I am not hating but we all sat here and criticise the "Good hair" film by Chris Rock and then do the same thing ourselves (not even subconsciously I might add).

Me personally I have never wished to be anything else but the beautiful 4a/ 4b that I am. In any case I was born and bred in Africa (before moving to Europe) so it would be both stupid and irrational of me to claim anything else. Never wanted to be lighter or curly hair (trust me the other Nigerian girls and school would have cussed that crap out of you).

Its funny because as you get older you develop a greater appreciation and love for yourself. I am now very proud of my naps and kinks. I think instead of aspiring to what we can never be we should inspire our selves with the best we can be. I started "stalking" Fotki's and have recently fallen in love with Sera et al's Fotki. I just love the way that their hair is the best it can be, thick and strong in all its glory. I think it is more healthy to aspire to a realistic role model. Ok so my hair may not get that thick but I know now that it can be that beautiful hence why I have recently decided to transition. My reason for this (which I recently discussed with my fully supportive hubbie) was that I want to be an example to my daughter one day so that she can realise that whatever her hair texture it will be beautiful.

Just my two cents anyway.

That's so true. I think as we get older, we become more concerned with our own comfort and what works for us. How many old ladies do you see in a moomoo and flipflops walking around, just as happy as they please? They care about how they feel in their own skin and not worry if it's "fashionable" I aspire to that

 

[PearlyCurly]

IA with those who say people with looser textures seem to be unwelcomed. I cant tell you how many predominately white,indian,hispanic websites I have seen reference longhaircareforum.com for hair care tips. Why dont I see any of them POSTING here? Please ask yourselves.

IA too, its like if anyone gives an compliment or attention to an type 3 hair, they are accused of not liking their own hair or not liking type 4 hair, and usually the ones who are complaining are the ones w/o type 3 hair

Every time i come on here i always see a thread(or someone in a thread) complaining of one hair type getting more attention then the other! But i just dont see it All i see is women with longer hair getting the attention(which i dont mind at all). If theres no complaints about someones texture it is about race, or someone not being black enough.

I may have only been on here for less then a year but i have yet to see a person with type 3 hair(or less) complain about someone with a tighter curl

 

[AsianAfricanPrincess]

I have noticed lately a lot of people focusing extensively on hair type. To me it isn't that serious and never will be. However for many others it's something that makes them better than everybody else. When my mother was in Jack and Jill the paper bag test was something VERY real and in order to be apart of the group you should pass it Do you feel some people will place extra emphasis on letting you know that their is a "3a or 3b or the elusive 3c" when you haven't even asked for that information? Or even lie about the TRUE textures of their hair to fit into a certain "Club" How do you feel about the issue?? Thoughts?

I think that a lot of the wariness regarding "hair type" is mostly due to the insecurity of those who fall outside of what THEY THEMSELVES feel are the "coveted hairtypes". A lot of this is projection.

When I was natural, it would really tick me off that people were so determined to dissuade others from exchanging information based on their "hairtype". Because if someone did not have my same hairtype, nine times out of ten her product information was pretty much useless to me and I wasted a lot of time and money taking a "we are the world" approach to my hair when I should have been exchanging information with women, in particular, who possessed the same hair type and hair behavior as myself.

I've noticed that a lot of Black Americans take a lot of positions on pan-Africanism/Blackness based on a fear of repeating the past more so than being "pan-African/Blackness". However, I'd discourage folks from projecting their own fears and insecurities onto others.

I personally don't care what people think about any particular hairtype. We could beat the subject to death (and we do...insecurities and wounds are repeatedly exposed on these hair forums to no avail). I don't care if anyone thinks a hairtype is "prettier" or more "coveted" than others. I seriously don't give a damn.

Because when it comes down to it, my own sense of self is what's important. And the world is an imperfect one. Nothing in human behavior/thought surprises me (especially after reading many of the comments on forums, even this one).

I feel women have every right (and SHOULD) exchange information regarding their hairtypes. Why not?? Because some fear they won't feel "included"? (What are we, school children...wait, some of us may be but I'm not.) Because some may feel their hairtype is not as "highly regarded" as others? Because, essentially, some wear their insecurities/sense of inferiority on their sleeves? That's what it essentially comes down to.

And I seriously haven't the time for anyone else's insecurities. Black women spend more than anyone on hair products. I've wasted a lot of money taking the advice of someone who doesn't have hair even close to mine because her hair reacts nothing like mine given the same product. (Disclaimer: I understand this can even happen within identical hairtypes, too...however, the likelihood is heightened when there are two completely different hairtypes.) It was infuriating.

Exchanging info regarding hairtypes isn't about "being that serious". It's about saving money (for me), time, and being empowered. I still remember what it was like to go to the drugstore and have no options for my hairtype as a Black woman. I felt powerless as if I had no options. Now, not only do we have products for Black women, but we can even find products based on hairtype. I love it.

People would rather we not put any emphasis on hairtypes so they can feel better about THEIR OWN, because THEY THEMSELVES feel insecure/inferior and project that onto others. And I don't agree with encouraging ignorance (e.g. a blind eye to the differences in hair textures/types) to accommodate anyone's sense of inferiority.

And I'm saying this as a proud, diva, overwhelmingly 4'ish hairtype.

 

[Irresistible]

IA too, its like if anyone gives an compliment or attention to an type 3 hair, they are accused of not liking their own hair or not liking type 4 hair, and usually the ones who are complaining are the ones w/o type 3 hair

Every time i come on here i always see a thread(or someone in a thread) complaining of one hair type getting more attention then the other! But i just dont see it All i see is women with longer hair getting the attention(which i dont mind at all). If theres no complaints about someones texture it is about race, or someone not being black enough.

I may have only been on here for less then a year but i have yet to see a person with type 3 hair(or less) complain about someone with a tighter curl

Thank you!!!

 

[Maa Maa omo mti]

But isn't this really an issue about classifying one's hair. The current system is broken and confusing. Til we some how come up with a acceptable system we can't see eye to eye.

 

[Bene]

But isn't this really an issue about classifying one's hair. The current system is broken and confusing. Til we some how come up with a acceptable system we can't see eye to eye.

I think the current systems are inherently flawed. A lot of it stems from who is making up the classifications. What I find that they tend to focus on one end of the spectrum, and lump all the types on the opposite end into one tiny category, ignoring the varieties and subtle distinctions.

It also depends on who is looking. One person's soft, silky, moisturized hair is another person's mushy mess.


Obviously there are different textures and types, but I think someone needs to look carefully at ALL hair and then come up with a system that encompasses them all, instead of favoring one sort over another.




Preventing people from making value judgments about type is a whole other story though

 

[sillygirl82]

I really don't get the andre system so I stopped trying to guess. I think a lot of other people are confused by it too. At this point, I'm just trying to keep it healthy.

Yes, I do feel some people value hair texture. These are probably the same people that are colorstruck. I wouldn't worry about it. Take care of your hair and let people think what they want.

 

[destine2grow]

This has been going on forever in the AA community. My mom always talks about who has good hair. Now that I am more educated. I have realized that all hair is good hair. I use to hate that after my kids were born she would say who had a better texture of hair. I use to tell her then that all of my kids have good hair b/c I didn't want any of my kids to feel that something was wrong with them if they have a certain hair texture b/c hair does not define who we are!

 

[supermodelsonya]

^^That's something a lot of people from older generations don't really understand. That was pretty much ingrained.

 

[LaToya28]

My thoughts on the issue: insecurity is a huge thing for AA women, especially b/c of the years and years and years of being told by the media's portrayal (look at black dolls' hair and skin, and even the new Disney princess' hair) of 'beautiful' that certain things about us just aren't desirable (hair texture and skin color being the most prevalent).
Nearly all (if not all) women want to feel pretty, and loved, and it's only in human nature to assert the qualities we have that we feel will make us more accepted by others. That said, I don't find it surprising when people assert their looser hair texture, even when uncalled for, and frankly it doesn't bother me. We all want to be accepted and loved and wanted, and we all go about becoming so through whatever means we feel necessary/fit.

Excellent answer! In my own personal experience, and I'm going to be totally honest with you ladies, I am thinking of transitioning, but there are times when I see pictures of certain ladies with super kinky hair, and I'll think to myself "I don't want to be natural if my hair looks like that." Some of you may think it's ignorant or shallow of me, but I'm sorry it's the truth. I think that what CurlTalk said was right on point...my mom's hair is a 3 something and growing up I always wished that I had hair like hers and when I told her that I was thinking of going natural she disapproved because my hair would be "nappy." So perhaps that has influenced the way I feel. erplexed I'm trying to get over this and accept the way that God made me...I hate the terms "good" hair or "pretty" hair. I know that good hair is healthy hair, but old habits die hard I guess...

 

[Anew]

I noticed the lying.

This kinda caught me off guard, lol...

But I don't think its "new" either.

 

[Ediese]

I noticed the lying.

I've noticed this too. I know a lot of people have different textures, and I'm not all up in their head checking it out. My thing is why do people claim 3c if they have a very small patch of it? It was very hard for me to find a regular 4a natural because everywhere I look people are 3c/4a..even if they might have four 3c strands. If the majority of your hair is 4a, why even mention 3c?..serious question.

 

[Eritreladiee]

i have a looser curl pattern, yet i grew up with the whole "you have bad hair" complex as well... the grass is always greener. i used to wish at one point my hair was more straight to fit in with my family. once i went to school i wished i had a tighter texture so that all the black girls would accept me.

i will say though, i've never felt discriminated against OR put on a pedestal here because of my hair type... i dont have a eleventy-million thank yous or comments on my page or on my pictures... half the time i'm rarely noticed in a thread (not in a bad way lol)

IRL i get mixed reviews about my hair too. yeah, i get the douche bags who talk to me cause "you got that good hair" :gag: but i also have the jerks that feel the need to make rude side ways comments because of my hair.

i guess what i'm saying is that its human nature to point out the "different" and that will include the positive and the negative

Thanks, you pretty much summed it up!

 

[LadyRaider]

Excellent answer! In my own personal experience, and I'm going to be totally honest with you ladies, I am thinking of transitioning, but there are times when I see pictures of certain ladies with super kinky hair, and I'll think to myself "I don't want to be natural if my hair looks like that." Some of you may think it's ignorant or shallow of me, but I'm sorry it's the truth. I think that what CurlTalk said was right on point...my mom's hair is a 3 something and growing up I always wished that I had hair like hers and when I told her that I was thinking of going natural she disapproved because my hair would be "nappy." So perhaps that has influenced the way I feel. erplexed I'm trying to get over this and accept the way that God made me...I hate the terms "good" hair or "pretty" hair. I know that good hair is healthy hair, but old habits die hard I guess...

My situation is similar, LaToya. My mom had 2-something hair. I do not know how tell the difference between 3s and 4s but I definitely know my mom had silky, wavy hair. It's hard to be a little girl and want to look like your mom. I'm with you. It kinda is tough NOT to desire the same hair and skin tone as your mom.

She never told me I had anything but beautiful hair though, so I didn't have to worry about anyone in my family saying I'm "too nappy." In my family the only problem with my hair is that I "let those people do stuff to it." (salons, relaxers, etc.)

As for transitioning, I'm not worried about texture. I am worried about manageability. My mother DID talk about "can'tchadon'tcha" hair... Hair that is really hard to comb. If my hair becomes hard too hard for me to manage, I'm relaxing.

I think we know enough about texture and how to bring out the best that I have seen people with all textures looking fabulous.