Awww come on lets finish the discussion! It was civil!

[Je Ne Sais Quoi]

In the words of Flava Flav.... wowwwwwwwwwwww. Man, are we still on this topic. This is like asking whether Jesus is black or white. Lol. Who cares? Hey, if you think being natural means that you have truly accepted your heritage vs. those who are relaxed, then okay. That is your opinion.

Just to be clear, African- Americans have more important issues that should be discussed, and believe it or not, it does not involve hair. Yes some are hating themselves, but there is also an equal amount that are not. Some posters in this thread need to accept the fact that relaxing does not necessarily equal self-hate. Furthermore, I think most in this thread have strayed away from the op's original question,unless she had other intentions.

eta: Yes I have been both and enjoyed both journies.

And on that note I am to done

 

[Evolving78]

everyone is going to say they do it for the style. nobody is going to really be honest. i remember a thread about what do you think is way over-hyped, or a random thoughts thread where quite a few women stated that if they didn't have naturally curly hair, they wouldn't dare go natural. but just like some women like to relax for ease, i went natural for ease. relaxed hair seems like more work to me. i am happier with my hair than i have ever been. i feel free and i can dance, play in the rain, and not have to worry about a thing. the reason why we get into debates about this is because African-Americans have been stripped of so much of their culture. we have tons of issues, but you got to understand that blacks care a lot about their appearance more than any race. we will spend our rent money on our hair and clothes. blacks have been told everything about them is bad, from the hair to their feet.

 

[Evolving78]

this is an article i read on another hair board about Dominican women and hair.
http://www.miamiherald.com/multimedia/news/afrolatin/part2/index.html

 

[manter26]

everyone is going to say they do it for the style. nobody is going to really be honest. i remember a thread about what do you think is way over-hyped, or a random thoughts thread where quite a few women stated that if they didn't have naturally curly hair, they wouldn't dare go natural. but just like some women like to relax for ease, i went natural for ease. relaxed hair seems like more work to me. i am happier with my hair than i have ever been. i feel free and i can dance, play in the rain, and not have to worry about a thing. the reason why we get into debates about this is because African-Americans have been stripped of so much of their culture. we have tons of issues, but you got to understand that blacks care a lot about their appearance more than any race. we will spend our rent money on our hair and clothes. blacks have been told everything about them is bad, from the hair to their feet.

You are insinuating that if you relax your hair because you like that style, you are just lying to yourself??... Being totally, 100% honest with myself, relaxing hair is a style, I look better with bone straight hair. I've worn my hair curly, wavy, straight, etc and i look better and like straight styles more than curly ones. I'm not thinking about all black ppl in the world when i style my hair. I like it a certain way and that's how i wear it.

Yes, I was relaxed for many, many years and now i've chosen to transition. The only reason for this is I recently had my wild, 3" of new growth blown out and i really couldn't tell the difference between my blow out roots and my relaxed hair, so why not just used blowouts to get it straight.

I'm not african-american, so i don't know all the in's and out's of the culture. I'm jamaican by way of UK and our heritage is so mixed you really can say it's one thing or the other. I just think sometimes judgements are made when they really aren't called for.

and relaxed or natural, u still won't catch me running around in the rain.

 

[yuriko]

I'm going to have to disagree with the bolded. Many people who are natural WERE relaxed, so maybe they speak from experience and being on both sides of the fence? For most of us on this board to still not know what our hair looks like without chemicals seems weird to me. Whenever I read the threads in the hair board about people transitioning the first question is almost always "what is my hair type?" or what is it going to look like? To me, for a grown person to not know what their real hair looks like is sooooooooooooo weird. Your hair, skin, facial features and perception of yourself are a part of your identity and to only figure it out past your twenties is ODD. Now with that said, I don't think people with relaxed hair are bad or "unenlightened", so to speak, but I do feel that collectively as "black people", there are things we do not know and understand about ourselves that many other non-black groups know and learn naturally. This MUST have an effect on our self-esteem and self-perception to some degree. I think it is a problem that we need to confront because there is a reason why these "identity issues" are so widespread among black people. I don't think it is a coincidence.

I still don't see how this is relevant to what I was saying. But I must ask why you care so much about other people's hair. Some people don't care to know their hair type or care to try being natural, why does it bother you? Its just hair, its not a big part of everyone's identity. I am sure that they get new growth like anyone else and have a fair idea about the difference between the new growth and the old relaxed hair.

So it seems to me that hair is an important part of your identity, but it is not so for everyone. You are merely projecting your own feelings onto other people. What may seem weird to you is clearly normal to others.

 

[BostonMaria]

Interesting thread...

 

[Evolving78]

You are insinuating that if you relax your hair because you like that style, you are just lying to yourself??... Being totally, 100% honest with myself, relaxing hair is a style, I look better with bone straight hair. I've worn my hair curly, wavy, straight, etc and i look better and like straight styles more than curly ones. I'm not thinking about all black ppl in the world when i style my hair. I like it a certain way and that's how i wear it.

Yes, I was relaxed for many, many years and now i've chosen to transition. The only reason for this is I recently had my wild, 3" of new growth blown out and i really couldn't tell the difference between my blow out roots and my relaxed hair, so why not just used blowouts to get it straight.

I'm not african-american, so i don't know all the in's and out's of the culture. I'm jamaican by way of UK and our heritage is so mixed you really can say it's one thing or the other. I just think sometimes judgements are made when they really aren't called for.

and relaxed or natural, u still won't catch me running around in the rain.

no, i am not saying that all people are being dishonest about the reason behind why they relax. what i am saying is that for those that do it because they feel their hair is bad, nappy, and ugly, are not going to admit the truth behind the lye. and as far as the rain, my hair can get wet and it will still keep its style. it make shrink bit, but i won't come from outside looking like a wet cat.

 

[PrissyMiss]

we will spend our rent money on our hair and clothes.

No disrespect shortdub, I understand everything you are saying but this above statement, imo, is more important than the current discussion.

Like I stated before there are some who do do it for the reasons you guys are implying, but there is an even greater number who don't. The point is, to generalize a group of people is ignorant. There were relaxed heads who stated that they do not hate themselves, myself being included, and yet in still there were so many who tried to convince us that we do.This topic has been debated over and over and over again. Don't you think it's a little overdone?

ETA: It's just hair. Everyone is not their hair.

 

[mahogany_horizons]

Actually, even though I relax, as long as I'm not going for the super straight look I rock after a fresh perm, I'm quite happy going out in the rain, etc, and letting my hair get drenched LOL! I normally air dry, put back in a bun/pony, etc, and my hair is quite curly everywhere.

I only run for cover ever 3 to 4 months when my hair is straightened if it gets wet....other than that I am good.

I don't relax because I don't love the texture of my hair. The longer I stretch, the more I see that I'd have naturally curly hair too, except my dang hairline...I mean, seriously beautiful curls, no product applied.

Only problem, I don't know how to style/care for it, and I'd be really scared of breakage. Because I only know how to care for my hair as a relaxed head, etc, then I don't really know much about what I would do for grooming, styling, etc, and how I would be successful as a natrual.

I might texlax in the future..........not for texture but for beakage sake....my problem is with tangles, curly tangles, and shed hair that tangles in my glorious curls...and keep in mind that there are some people, and I may make a case for this myself, who are more than ready to embrace what their natural hair has the potential to be, but those same people may be also locked into the relaxer mindset by the people around them who have igornant views regarding natural hair....even 3b/3c/4a hair that has volume....which is the kind of hair that I would have......think of the huge beuatiful curly fro I could rock!

I don't think any natural texture is ugly. I think it's cool. I would go with mine, if I knew more about it, cared more to learn about it, and wasn't concerned for the side eye.

 

[Poranges]

Since there's nappuarality lets start a relaxality! Ha Ha....lol who cares that much to put another person's hair state down? Enjoy your natural/relaxed hair, mind ya biznez and KIM..at the end of the day what we gonna say "God, I should enter heaven because I embraced my natural texture" or "God, I relaxed so let me go in"...nope, just hair that we're all trying to grow.

 

[mahogany_horizons]

Since there's nappuarality lets start a relaxality! Ha Ha....lol who cares that much to put another person's hair state down? Enjoy your natural/relaxed hair, mind ya biznez and KIM..at the end of the day what we gonna say "God, I should enter heaven because I embraced my natural texture" or "God, I relaxed so let me go in"...nope, just hair that we're all trying to grow.

AMEN ON THAT ONE SIS!!

 

[missann]

this is an article i read on another hair board about Dominican women and hair.
http://www.miamiherald.com/multimedia/news/afrolatin/part2/index.html

Thanks for the link. I appreciate the honesty in this excerpt:

"If you're working in a bank, you don't want some barrio-looking hair. Straight hair looks elegant," the bank teller said. "It's not that as a person of color I want to look white. I want to look pretty."

Very telling.

 

[that_1_grrrl]

this is an article i read on another hair board about Dominican women and hair.
http://www.miamiherald.com/multimedia/news/afrolatin/part2/index.html

I remember reading that article. That's why I am scared about visiting my family in Cuba. They call natural hair "pasas" (raisins) down there. But, I think it may be better than DR because I see lots of natural heads in Cuba (and rollersets, lol). I hope so, cuz if any of my family there tells me I need a relaxer, I will have to peace out on them.

 

[msa]

No disrespect shortdub, I understand everything you are saying but this above statement, imo, is more important than the current discussion.

Like I stated before there are some who do do it for the reasons you guys are implying, but there is an even greater number who don't. The point is, to generalize a group of people is ignorant. There were relaxed heads who stated that they do not hate themselves, myself being included, and yet in still there were so many who tried to convince us that we do.This topic has been debated over and over and over again. Don't you think it's a little overdone?

ETA: It's just hair. Everyone is not their hair.

I just wanted to reiterate for the umpteenth time...

relaxing does not equal self hate...staying natural does not equal self love...

carry on.

 

[Evolving78]

No disrespect shortdub, I understand everything you are saying but this above statement, imo, is more important than the current discussion.

Like I stated before there are some who do do it for the reasons you guys are implying, but there is an even greater number who don't. The point is, to generalize a group of people is ignorant. There were relaxed heads who stated that they do not hate themselves, myself being included, and yet in still there were so many who tried to convince us that we do.This topic has been debated over and over and over again. Don't you think it's a little overdone?

ETA: It's just hair. Everyone is not their hair.

ita that at the end of the day, it is just hair. and i never stated that if someone relaxes, then they most hate themselves. like i stated before, i was relaxed because i thought that was the thing to do. i was never given a choice. i know i can go from one extreme to another with my hair. i will dye, grow it long, cut it bald, wear crazy hairstyles, and not let a soul dictate what i do with it. i was relaxed when i came to this board. this board is a safe place for me as a natural to come to, but in the real world it is different. i don't get a lot of positive reaction or influence from the real world. the real world has a major issue with the way i wear my hair. people all around can't seem to understand why i made the choice to go the natural route. i told someone last week about my hair length goal, and the first thing that came out of her mouth was, "is that when i was going to relax it"? it will never be over done until as a black people stop hating on each for something that is natural. i think once we can have some unity in that, then all of the debates will cease.

 

[sylver2]

no, i am not saying that all people are being dishonest about the reason behind why they relax. what i am saying is that for those that do it because they feel their hair is bad, nappy, and ugly, are not going to admit the truth behind the lye. and as far as the rain, my hair can get wet and it will still keep its style. it make shrink bit, but i won't come from outside looking like a wet cat.

yeh okay...keep the low blows coming

 

[Poranges]

yeh okay...keep the low blows coming

And since we wanna go there, I look like a sexy wet cat, sexy AND sleek! Nuh Anh Was you saying something? Uh unh, you can't tell me NOTHING! Aight!...

 

[Evolving78]

yeh okay...keep the low blows coming

that wasn't a personal attack on anyone. that is just what goes on in my world when i wore my hair straight and would get caught in the rain. if i came off that way, i do apologize. that is not my personality to just attack people.

 

[Poranges]

that wasn't a personal attack on anyone. that is just what goes on in my world when i wore my hair straight and would get caught in the rain. if i came off that way, i do apologize. that is not my personality to just attack people.

Nah its cool gurl, we all have diff experiences

 

[msa]

this board is a safe place for me as a natural to come to, but in the real world it is different. i don't get a lot of positive reaction or influence from the real world. the real world has a major issue with the way i wear my hair. people all around can't seem to understand why i made the choice to go the natural route. i told someone last week about my hair length goal, and the first thing that came out of her mouth was, "is that when i was going to relax it"? it will never be over done until as a black people stop hating on each for something that is natural. i think once we can have some unity in that, then all of the debates will cease.

I agree with you. Even though people do talk negatively about natural hair here a lot as well. And then there's the whole glorification of straight hair...people on this board seriously have a hard time understanding that your hair does not have to be straight to enjoy it.

Anyway, the real world is so much worse. As a natural I have NEVER gone up to a relaxed head to tell her something negative about her hair. I have NEVER made mean comments about someone's hairstyle just because they were relaxed and made sure the person heard me. But I can't tell you how many times I've been called a "nappy such and such" or heard "dang she needs to comb her hair look at all them napps" or whatever else.

People forget that LHCF is a bubble where people are generally more accepting of natural hair than the real world is. Relaxed heads need to understand that hair can be really deep for naturals because of what we go through. It wouldn't be that deep for me if people would just stop insulting me out on the street or in conversation.

 

[Evolving78]

delete......

 

[sharentu]

i dont think you can say what is in the mind of everyone. i remember sometimes when my mother would try to tell me what i was thinking, and she was so off from the truth. the truth is some people may have self hate issues and some may not. make sure that those who do have a problem get some knowledge on why they should love themselves regardless of their hairstyle preference. dont lump everyone into a category or generalization, we definitely have too many of those already.

 

[PrissyMiss]

Shortdub, ita with you, however, I still say that this conversation is like talking to a bunch of brick walls. At the end of the day don't worry about what other people say. You do happen to be on one of the few hair boards that embraces nappturality or relaxality( ya'll made that up).

You could become president and preach your idea to the world, and people would still have negative ideas about natural hair. I don't address ignorancy and you shouldn't either. So, next time someone asks you a question like that, ask them a question about their hair. I'm sure it would shut them up.

 

[mscocoface]

this is an article i read on another hair board about Dominican women and hair.
http://www.miamiherald.com/multimedia/news/afrolatin/part2/index.html

I saw this same article and I am still shaking my head. I believe you go that far in either direction natural or relaxed there is a problem.

I am sure there is a happy medium and case for being natural or relaxed but with everything else there is the fringe or the extreme for both.

Having said that, I know of some women who can't or are told they better not go natural because of whom they are with or around. Their loved ones or spouses have threaten them about going natural.

Even today with this wonderful dialogue and all of us having a choice here on this site, there are still some serious underlying issues going on that are truly sad and scary when it comes to natural vs. relaxed for women of color.

I wish and hope for a day when this will be a non issue, you can go natural or relaxed and the choice is yours because you want to not because you have to due to family or society or self image. It would be wonderful just to do whatever you wanted to do with your hair and you wouldn't have to worry about negative backlash being natural or relaxed.

That may be naive but it would be nice.

 

[that_1_grrrl]

It is not naive. We all wish for that to happen one day.

I saw this same article and I am still shaking my head. I believe you go that far in either direction natural or relaxed there is a problem.

I am sure there is a happy medium and case for being natural or relaxed but with everything else there is the fringe or the extreme.

Having said that, I know of some women who can't or are told they better not go natural because of whom they are with or around. Their loved ones or spouses have threaten them about going natural.

Even today with this wonderful dialogue and all of us having a choice here on this site, there are still some serious underlying issues going on that are truly sad and scary when it comes to natural vs. relaxed for women of color.


I wish and hope for a day when this will be a non issue, you can go natural or relaxed and the choice is yours because you want to not because you have to due to family or society or self image.

That may be naive but it would be nice.

 

[Poranges]

I agree with you. Even though people do talk negatively about natural hair here a lot as well. And then there's the whole glorification of straight hair...people on this board seriously have a hard time understanding that your hair does not have to be straight to enjoy it.

Anyway, the real world is so much worse. As a natural I have NEVER gone up to a relaxed head to tell her something negative about her hair. I have NEVER made mean comments about someone's hairstyle just because they were relaxed and made sure the person heard me. But I can't tell you how many times I've been called a "nappy such and such" or heard "dang she needs to comb her hair look at all them napps" or whatever else.

People forget that LHCF is a bubble where people are generally more accepting of natural hair than the real world is. Relaxed heads need to understand that hair can be really deep for naturals because of what we go through. It wouldn't be that deep for me if people would just stop insulting me out on the street or in conversation.

ITA, however...I wouldn't care...and I wouldn't try to make people who relax should not be talking because of this, and of that and all of that...just because a natural goes through struggles doesn't mean everybody has to go natural to make what statement? Naturals go thru struggles but it has nothing to do with my creamy crack!

 

[AtlantaJJ]

I just wanted to reiterate for the umpteenth time...

relaxing does not equal self hate...staying natural does not equal self love...

carry on.

Where on EARTH did this one get started?

I was natural from the time I grew up in Los Angeles until the time I moved to Atlanta in the early 90's. I started wearing my hair relaxed because the humidity was 1000000% in the summer and that seemed like an easy choice at the time.

There was not one thought of self love / hate or politics in that decision. It was just a need to manage my hair better in the new climate that caused a decision. After I got bored with that, I wore braids for the longest time because it was more convienant for my active lifestyle.

I just want to know when it got all serious like this, relaxed vs natural. I totally missed that memo!

For me it is just a styling choice.

 

[Carrie A]

um, locks....

Amazingly, those can be taken down.....even after years of wear. Techniques for taking then down are posted in cyberspace.

 

[Shandell]

We live in a world where if you are not a type 2 or 3 with defined curls you are not worthy of embracing you true hair texture, farbeit from a 4b to actually think their hair is beautiful...that is unheard of. A 4b needs a relaxer in the eyes of society. But, let me be the first to say I am no longer under the bondage that society/blacks/African Americans like to imprision those who don't conform to their standard of beauty.
OT: And what is this natural hair is unmanageable garbage...we are not animals that need taming...please.


Can't we all just get along...for real!

 

[Lexib]

Exactly!
As a natural, I can CHOOSE to wear MY hair naturally curly or straight.

Well you know likewise, I (speaking for relaxed heads) can choose to wear my hair straight OR wear a really tight braid out to mimick my natural texture...then wash it out and go back to being straight again.


Just a style choice.