Awww come on lets finish the discussion! It was civil!

[Southernbella.]

The difference is that the person who returns to relaxing with an epiphany probably learned a whole lot of something from being natural.

All the person who BC'd has learned is how to use a pair of scissors.
This is the point for them where the questions start, not end.

I wasn't necessarily talking about just hair styling.

 

[AnnDriena_]

Exactly. I don't get where that keeps coming from. As I said in the other thread people who relax don't automatically hate themselves just like people who are natural don't automatically love themselves.

I think some of the posters on here are getting a certain idea about your views from the way you state them. Like relaxed people being in "denial". I don't deny anything. I like my straight hair better.

I only once saw a website of Asian folk getting "nappy perms" which is really the best i can describe it as. Basically trying to get hair like black people. That is the only time I have ever seen that.

A lot of people have hair issues...I relaxed my hair at 14, sadly because I was raised with the mistaken notion that I had to keep my hair braided or loose it, and I was tired of getting braided every dang week. I really did. So I relaxed my hair so I could wear it out. But relaxer broke my hair, so I am transitioning.

The reason I know people have issues, is relaxers are not for everyone. I see people who have terrible hair, even after trying all sorts of regimens...not to mention people who can't even afford to maintain relaxed hair...but they'd rather keep jacked up relaxers than God forbid someone sees their natural hair.

I see people wear TERRIBLE weaves, rather than God forbid someone sees your hair...

And as for maintenance...I wash and go with my natural hair, it is a lot easier than relaxed hair.

Basically, IMO, when people say natural hair is too much maintenance = natural hair takes to much effort to make it LOOK like long straight, hair.[/quote]

No I didn't try to make my natural hair look like straight hair. I have natural small waves brownish red hair. I didn't like it. Like a white women with brown hair wants to be a red head. They like red better. I like my straight shiny black hair.

It doesn't make my skin any lighter and it doesn't put me in denial. I don't like my hair and there are plenty of white people who don't like theirs but they get to have an opinion without it being overanalyzed and putting them in a box.

I don't know of any relaxed women who put down naturals but I see too many militant self righteous naturals who seem to feel the need to CONSTANTLY take relaxed women to task. They use every chance they can to point out all the positives of their natural hair over the negatives of our relaxed hair.

So what if I don't like my natural texture. SO WHAT if it's natural. I have naturally hairy legs but I shave those too? Do I hate my legs because I don't leave them in the state God gave them to me?

 

[AnnDriena_]

The word "hatred" is being thrown around very freely.

I have never aligned myself with the notion that relaxed hair equated to self-hate. Hate is a strong word.

I think folks refuse to step outside of themselves and actually think about why the straight hair ideal persists and why so many black people view relaxing as the norm...and just "what you do". And I do understand why a topic like this evokes these really visceral reactions from people.

Lots of people think about it. They just don't come to the same conclusion as you.

To those of you who believe that relaxers grew solely out of black people's desire for "manageable" hair, take a look at our history. The conk grew out of men's wanting to fit in with the white's "laid to the side, shiny, slicked back" look. I totally don't think, especially in the case of men, it had much to do with the men's need for increased manageability ...it was all about the look.

People are so knee-jerked to this whole discussion that they automatically arrive with defense, and pack on the heavy artillery...i personally think it has a lot to do with the fact that many blacks aren't so naive to the way eurocentric ideals have permeated our psyche...many do not want to have to come to terms or deal with the fact that they *might* be perpetuating this negative way of thinking about their OWN people and internalizing what has been spoon-fed to us for hundreds of years.

My hair is my business and others do NOT have to follow suit.

I think i stated this in a previous post of mine, but these excuses as to why people prefer relaxing "it's just a preference/style choice/manageablity" rhetoric is annoying, kind of like when white folks refuse to acknowledge privilege.

We don't need an excuse as to why we relax our hair. Because we don't need to answer to anyone. I'm not asking you for an "excuse" as to why you don't straighten yours.

 

[Raspberry]

I don't know where that fairytale came from because it's a lie!!! I think some folks that go natural have this dream that their hair will look like Tracy Ellis Ross or Rachel True, etc. They think they will just be able to wake up with beautiful curls and what not, but for most it won't happen. I will say however that my natural hair isn't anymore difficult than my relaxed hair, it took me hours to style my hair when I was relaxed it still takes me hours now that I'm natural.

Yep.. and even Tracey Ellis Ross has said that her hair gave her much grief over the years and that she texturizes to get the look so many envy.

 

[Essensual]

what does napptural mean?

It's just another way to say "natural". It's a carry over from my days on Nappturality.com. I'm happy with my 4b coils. But I also like that I can switch it up whenever I want to.

 

[Essensual]

Hmmm. Well, either your hair is natural, meaning the texture/color are the same as they grew out of your scalp, or you're not.

That's just my opinion.

Well...based on the above definition, I guess I'm not natural.

 

[SelahOco]

The same women who relax their hair wear corn rows, (usta wear) finger waves, quick weaves, micro braids, dookie braids, twists, etc. In all the diversity of styles that people wear and choose today, I can count only a few that could "pass" for white. I understand that there is a historical context and history to our hair choices, but isn't it possible that a sister who wore dookie braids in the 90's and wears a silky rollerset in 2009 just likes her hair a certain way? Does it have to be some latent brand of self hate?

If I don't choose to wear it like it grows out of my head, does that mean that I'm rejecting myself? IMO it's no different than choosing to shave my pits/legs, wearing read lipstick (rather than leaving them brown like God made them), or aching away my unibrow. I hardly see any woman here trying to emulate a white woman with her hair choices. I think Sourthern Bella's hair is amazing. I love Mwedzi's hair. But there are some naturals that rock their hair in the way that they choose, and I think it's wack. Not that my opinion matters (cause it doesn't) but my point is I love certain people's hair, styles, the way it looks with their facial structure, etc.

I guess for me I think sometimes it's self hate....and sometimes its just a hairstyle.

 

[Southernbella.]

I only ever dealt with my natural hair wet, and even then preferably after it had just been washed. To pull my hair in a puff I had to apply the fantasia IC gel in sections almost relaxer like pattern so that when I tied it down for the night it would stay in place. I could wear it in a puff for 3 days before the ends started to knot. If I tried to do a puff without gel, my hair would knot/loc at the roots.


My issue is that the folks who don't have problems seem to be the least compassionate towards those who do.

Shame on me for putting my hair in a puff? Really?

I had to laugh at this because it's exactly how I do my ponytails, which is why I don't do them often. @ Applying Fantasia like a relaxer. For ponytails, I have to do this, then hold the hair with one hand and Denman the rest in a backward motion, making sure every single section gets brushed or else there will be a hump somewhere. After all that, I have to put on a scarf to "set" it.

 

[Southernbella.]

Yep.. and even Tracey Ellis Ross has said that her hair gave her much grief over the years and that she texturizes to get the look so many envy.

I didn't know she texturized. I wonder what her real texture is.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

I wasn't necessarily talking about just hair styling.

Me neither. We've both been on hairboards for some years now. Now think back to the number of "OMG, WTF did I do?" BC threads. The pro-negro agenda does not set in on day one for the masses.

 

[msa]

I think some of the posters on here are getting a certain idea about your views from the way you state them. Like relaxed people being in "denial". I don't deny anything. I like my straight hair better.

I was being facetious/sarcastic when I said that. Next time I'll be sure to use a smiley so that it will be more obvious.

And like I said before, I think self-hatred is too serious of an issue to be thrown around in a hair debate and I have not, and will not, equate relaxing to self-hate.

I hope that one day you do like your own hair.

Well...based on the above definition, I guess I'm not natural.

Hey, it's only my definition. Please don't feel like you have to go by it at all.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In regards to natural hair being too difficult or unmanageable or whatever. I don't fight my hair. If it can't go in a ponytail, I find something different to do with it and move on. My hair just can't do certain things and I'm not going to force it to (like straightening, or ponytails, or anything that requires sleekness/no fuzz). If all it can do is make a shrunken fro then I will do what it wants and I will LOVE it...even if I can only do one style or I have to wear styles I'm not used to or haven't grown to like. I'll learn to like it just like I learned to like my skin color or the size of my eyes.

Everyone should do whatever it is they deem necessary to enjoy their own hair. Me, I don't have to do anything but look at it to enjoy it. If you have to relax to enjoy yours, that's great! Do you.

 

[Southernbella.]

Me neither. We've both been on hairboards for some years now. Now think back to the number of "OMG, WTF did I do?" BC threads. The pro-negro agenda does not set in on day one for the masses.

You're right, but I think it depends on the person. I was very militantly relaxed back in the day. Whenever these discussions came up, I was always in the threads. Then I started gradually changing my mindset. On my black families board, most of the women were natural, and I remember having discussions about natural/relaxed there, but I did more reading than posting. A lot of what they were saying penetrated and got me to thinking. It was a combination of things that led me to transition, and by the time I BCd, my mind had fully changed.

It really is a mental thing for some people. I could also see it with some former naturals. I can remember a few of them being really into the natural thing way back when I was still relaxed. There was a gradual shift in their thinking (which was reflected in their posts), and by the time they relaxed, their mindset had completely changed. Now, we are on opposite sides of the debate.It's really funny in a way, but I can respect it because I think that's just what happens when you embrace a new ideology over an old one.

 

[spelmanlocks]

It all comes down to folks need to worry about what's inside their own heads rather than what is on someone elses . Relaxers didn't bring down the black community and a whole bunch of sistas wearing fro's and wash N' go's wont fix it.

Great post!

 

[LadieCrn]

Natural hair can be beautiful, Relaxed hair can be beautiful. It all depends on how you like it and most importantly how do you take care of it. My hair is natural, matter fact I have dreads, something I was afraid to mention here because I felt I would immediately be dismissed whenever I make a hair comment. My sisters have relaxed hair, that I think is absolutely beautiful, long, and healthy. Women come all different kinds of ways, I haven't the time to focus on anyone else's hair choice. Self righteous naturals piss me off, self righteous relaxers piss me off, anything in either extreme needs to be ignored.

 

[cupcakes]

Well personally i love natural hair. I absolutely adore it. I wish i was a natural. Unfortunately i hate short hair so i refuse to do the BC. And i have attempted to transition before but i don't have the patience to wait 2 years for my hair to grow back to its current length. i want waist length now dammit lol. And i have attempted to transition before but i experienced extreme shedding. So Now i texlax and i get the best of both worlds. Relaxing does not equal self hate. I absolutely love the way i look. Im beauriful and my natural texture is too, as well as my relaxed texture.

 

[Farida]

I think some of the posters on here are getting a certain idea about your views from the way you state them. Like relaxed people being in "denial". I don't deny anything. I like my straight hair better.

I only once saw a website of Asian folk getting "nappy perms" which is really the best i can describe it as. Basically trying to get hair like black people. That is the only time I have ever seen that.

A lot of people have hair issues...I relaxed my hair at 14, sadly because I was raised with the mistaken notion that I had to keep my hair braided or loose it, and I was tired of getting braided every dang week. I really did. So I relaxed my hair so I could wear it out. But relaxer broke my hair, so I am transitioning.

The reason I know people have issues, is relaxers are not for everyone. I see people who have terrible hair, even after trying all sorts of regimens...not to mention people who can't even afford to maintain relaxed hair...but they'd rather keep jacked up relaxers than God forbid someone sees their natural hair.

I see people wear TERRIBLE weaves, rather than God forbid someone sees your hair...

And as for maintenance...I wash and go with my natural hair, it is a lot easier than relaxed hair.

Basically, IMO, when people say natural hair is too much maintenance = natural hair takes to much effort to make it LOOK like long straight, hair.[/quote]

No I didn't try to make my natural hair look like straight hair. I have natural small waves brownish red hair. I didn't like it. Like a white women with brown hair wants to be a red head. They like red better. I like my straight shiny black hair.

It doesn't make my skin any lighter and it doesn't put me in denial. I don't like my hair and there are plenty of white people who don't like theirs but they get to have an opinion without it being overanalyzed and putting them in a box.

I don't know of any relaxed women who put down naturals but I see too many militant self righteous naturals who seem to feel the need to CONSTANTLY take relaxed women to task. They use every chance they can to point out all the positives of their natural hair over the negatives of our relaxed hair.

So what if I don't like my natural texture. SO WHAT if it's natural. I have naturally hairy legs but I shave those too? Do I hate my legs because I don't leave them in the state God gave them to me?

No need to get crazy...if you reread all my posts, you will see that I said I like relaxed hair and I stopped relaxing mine because of breakage. I am not the natural brigade trying to convert everyone. I like long hair, and I hated having to cut mine, you better believe, just in the interest of length, I would still have a relaxer if my hair was fine with it. My post just highlighted the fact that there's many women out there with jacked up relaxers and weaves who still won't go natural or choose a healthier alternative. What does that say?

 

[Farida]

No I didn't try to make my natural hair look like straight hair. I have natural small waves brownish red hair. I didn't like it. Like a white women with brown hair wants to be a red head. They like red better. I like my straight shiny black hair.

It doesn't make my skin any lighter and it doesn't put me in denial. I don't like my hair and there are plenty of white people who don't like theirs but they get to have an opinion without it being overanalyzed and putting them in a box.

I don't know of any relaxed women who put down naturals but I see too many militant self righteous naturals who seem to feel the need to CONSTANTLY take relaxed women to task. They use every chance they can to point out all the positives of their natural hair over the negatives of our relaxed hair.

So what if I don't like my natural texture. SO WHAT if it's natural. I have naturally hairy legs but I shave those too? Do I hate my legs because I don't leave them in the state God gave them to me?[/quote]

Oh...and you really going to compare natural hair to hairy legs?

 

[gabulldawg]

It all comes down to experiences. It's like my mother, who has short, super soft/fine, 3c-4a hair encouraging me, the same daughter who she took to the beauty shop every week to get my 4j super thick APL hair pressed and curled because SHE couldn't even handle it, to go natural! Just because it works for YOU, doesn't mean it will work for ME! What's so hard to understand about that??

Some people are really playing themselves and think they are playing others. You have "rainbows" growing out of your head and I have "weeds" growing out of mine, and I'm supposed to sit here and look foolish just so I can embrace my heritage. I've gone the natural route, and after trial and error, came to the conclusion that it's not for me. I have a right to make that choice. I don't like puffs. I don't like twists. I don't like braids. I don't like frizz. I like wearing my hair straight, and I can do something about it. Everyone has different experiences, just like we all have different preferences. Why do we all have to be the same?

 

[blasianbeauty]

I know I'm late but relaxing is a style choice for me.

 

[sharentu]

i think it is a choice. as a person who had her hair permed from the age of 11, i have attempted to go natural only once before now. now that i am almost fully natural i will not knock someone for the choice they made. for me i wanted my hair permed when i was little because my mother was a horrible braider (her being a natural until i was in my mid teens, she rocked an afro, loved my mom's hair ). she finally said you do your hair, which i did and proceeded to make it break off badly. i got the perm for manageability period.

all thru my hairstory i have tried to treat my hair right, to the best of my knowledge. now my transition was about giving my hair a break and to truly learn about my hair. i am happy that i did this for me. but if i change my mind tomorrow, i would get me a perm quick, because i now know how to care for my hair, so that it remains healthy.

 

[Poranges]

Well personally i love natural hair. I absolutely adore it. I wish i was a natural. Unfortunately i hate short hair so i refuse to do the BC. And i have attempted to transition before but i don't have the patience to wait 2 years for my hair to grow back to its current length. i want waist length now dammit lol. And i have attempted to transition before but i experienced extreme shedding. So Now i texlax and i get the best of both worlds. Relaxing does not equal self hate. I absolutely love the way i look. Im beauriful and my natural texture is too, as well as my relaxed texture.

So true! I was natural through out my childhood and half of my teenage years, loved my natural hair but I just didn't look good!!! I will go natural again someday but I want long hair now! My fro was huge and long and I rocked a short cut for a while but now, I just want long hair...and transitioning will be a set back...I love my texture and everything but I have an edgy look with my hair bone straight, which I love. So for me its not about loving anything or embracing anything, its about how I personally want to look and a look I like to have...I'll do the same with my daughters, natural for a looong time and they'll have the choice whether they would like to relax or not at 16-17, like I did....curly hair just DON'T look fly on me, so I gotta do what I gotta do, what others do with their hair is their business but I know whats best for me.

 

[Poranges]

It all comes down to experiences. It's like my mother, who has short, super soft/fine, 3c-4a hair encouraging me, the same daughter who she took to the beauty shop every week to get my 4j super thick APL hair pressed and curled because SHE couldn't even handle it, to go natural! Just because it works for YOU, doesn't mean it will work for ME! What's so hard to understand about that??

Some people are really playing themselves and think they are playing others. You have "rainbows" growing out of your head and I have "weeds" growing out of mine, and I'm supposed to sit here and look foolish just so I can embrace my heritage. I've gone the natural route, and after trial and error, came to the conclusion that it's not for me. I have a right to make that choice. I don't like puffs. I don't like twists. I don't like braids. I don't like frizz. I like wearing my hair straight, and I can do something about it. Everyone has different experiences, just like we all have different preferences. Why do we all have to be the same?

In total agreement .

I don't want to make a statement, I know my heritage, I don't care about embracing anything or seeing any light, I just want good looking hair, point blank, its not even deep for me. I remember when I got my first press at 13, I liked it so much that I asked for a pressing comb for Christmas, I kept on burning my hair trying to keep it straight 24/7 so relaxing was just a more convenient alternative to get the look I want. Natural hair is beautiful, just not on me.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

I love my natural texture but it's not the bestest of the best either. I've been both relaxed and natural and I think that if I chose to become relaxed again, this time...I would know what to do to it to make it work.

I've been struggling lately to texlax it....and I have the feeling I won't, but...you never know.

I love Supergirl's hair as a relaxed head....absolutely beautiful and longggggggggggggg! I love Cichelle's hair as a natural head.....absolutely beautiful and longggggggggggggggg! I love PatTodd's hair as a texlaxed head...beautiful and getting longer and longer as time goes by.

IT'S ALL GOOD!!!

If I choose too...then, it would be my choice.

All the best to everyone who leaves it natural or wear it texlaxed or relaxed...it's all good!

 

[anon123]

I had to laugh at this because it's exactly how I do my ponytails, which is why I don't do them often. @ Applying Fantasia like a relaxer. For ponytails, I have to do this, then hold the hair with one hand and Denman the rest in a backward motion, making sure every single section gets brushed or else there will be a hump somewhere. After all that, I have to put on a scarf to "set" it.

That's how y'all do ponytails? No wonder mine look so different . . .

 

[that_1_grrrl]

I completely agree with MSA. I do not think people even realize their attitudes about natural hair. But it's obvious when reading posts there's a jab here about natural hair and a jab there about natural hair.

It's the same to me when there are discussions about light skin v. dark skin and people refuse to believe they're love for light skin is indicative of something larger. Or the 1,000,001 posts about "This is what's wrong with Black women/men/the whole race as a whole. Or when people find the need to differentiate themselves from "those Negroes" over there because they're ghetto/loud/etc.

Let's not pretend that we do not have self-hate issues.

 

[gabulldawg]

I completely agree with MSA. I do not think people even realize their attitudes about natural hair. But it's obvious when reading posts there's a jab here about natural hair and a jab there about natural hair.

It's the same to me when there are discussions about light skin v. dark skin and people refuse to believe they're love for light skin is indicative of something larger. Or the 1,000,001 posts about "This is what's wrong with Black women/men/the whole race as a whole. Or when people find the need to differentiate themselves from "those Negroes" over there because they're ghetto/loud/etc.

Let's not pretend that we do not have self-hate issues.

But on the flip side, let's not try to make yourself (not just directed at you, rosie) feel better by lumping those that relax into the "self-hate" category, and trying to place yourself on some kind of pedestal as if you are above it all. Natural hair doesn't exclude you from self-hate. It's what's in your brain that's more important than what's on your head.

People have many different reasons for their preferences. You can't tell someone their own reasoning behind their choice.

 

[babs19]

I dont understand how getting a relaxer equate to self hate. I have read so many articles, boards, youtube videos about black women and self hate because they relax their hair.

Other races do chemically process their hair but doesnt get looked as self hating. Caucasians get curly perms, as well other types of permanet hair straightening.
If you go to the sephora website more than half of the reviews on phyto is from caucasians and other races not just blacks. But we are looked at as self hating. I love myself, I love being black, I relax my hair as a style choice. Just like how Becky dye her hair or Molly straightened her curly hair or whatever.. Im so tired of black woman self hate topics. I mean seriously if we hated being black straightening our hair will not void the fact we still got black skin.

When it comes down to it its not really about the hair its about black people in general. Fro some reason we seem to be the only race who has to fine faults with our own people. majority of the other races who get these services done have no problems because no one cares. when i black person does the same another black woman automatically feels that the world must back her opinion. IMO people need to be more concerned about there own lives because we are all individuals with free will.

Do people feel that being natural makes you 'more black and in touch with there heritage' then those who are relaxed. hair is hair.

 

[taz007]

What other "hairstyles" require you to cut your hair off in order to change the style?

I was natural for 7 years and I HAD to cut my hair off to change the style. My hair was tore up!

 

[Nice & Wavy]

I completely agree with MSA. I do not think people even realize their attitudes about natural hair. But it's obvious when reading posts there's a jab here about natural hair and a jab there about natural hair.

It's the same to me when there are discussions about light skin v. dark skin and people refuse to believe they're love for light skin is indicative of something larger. Or the 1,000,001 posts about "This is what's wrong with Black women/men/the whole race as a whole. Or when people find the need to differentiate themselves from "those Negroes" over there because they're ghetto/loud/etc.

Let's not pretend that we do not have self-hate issues.

Really? I don't hate myself at all...I love myself whether I'm relaxed or natural.

I think its gonna be good to come out of this thread now.

Have a good day ladies.

 

[that_1_grrrl]

But on the flip side, let's not try to make yourself (not just directed at you, rosie) feel better by lumping those that relax into the "self-hate" category, and trying to place yourself on some kind of pedestal as if you are above it all. Natural hair doesn't exclude you from self-hate. It's what's in your brain that's more important than what's on your head.

People have many different reasons for their preferences. You can't tell someone their own reasoning behind their choice.

Didn't say that. That's why I said "we". We all have self-hate issues, and I wish people would stop denying it. It's ridiculous. We can not get rid of these issues if we keep pretending it is not there. It isn't our fault. White society has fed this to us for centuries. But for the future generations, can we please start admitting that these feelings are wrong, so they can grow up with some of these issues?

I am tired of just la-la-la-ing over everything. I don't want my children growing up in a world where they think there is something wrong with their natural hair, their dark skin, or truly believe that Black women are mean and nasty by nature.

We can not get to that point if we keep denying it's there. That is all I am saying.