Awww come on lets finish the discussion! It was civil!

[CandiceC]

I call it ignorant because topics like these always bring up ill feelings for whatever reason but if it can be discussed without all that then it's cool.

Gotcha. Thanks.

 

[Je Ne Sais Quoi]

I only once saw a website of Asian folk getting "nappy perms" which is really the best i can describe it as. Basically trying to get hair like black people. That is the only time I have ever seen that.

A lot of people have hair issues...I relaxed my hair at 14, sadly because I was raised with the mistaken notion that I had to keep my hair braided or loose it, and I was tired of getting braided every dang week. I really did. So I relaxed my hair so I could wear it out. But relaxer broke my hair, so I am transitioning.

The reason I know people have issues, is relaxers are not for everyone. I see people who have terrible hair, even after trying all sorts of regimens...not to mention people who can't even afford to maintain relaxed hair...but they'd rather keep jacked up relaxers than God forbid someone sees their natural hair.

I see people wear TERRIBLE weaves, rather than God forbid someone sees your hair...

And as for maintenance...I wash and go with my natural hair, it is a lot easier than relaxed hair.

Basically, IMO, when people say natural hair is too much maintenance = natural hair takes to much effort to make it LOOK like long straight, hair.

Let's ask Mwedzi that question or any other natural with the the thickest and kinkiest of hair and see if they are in agreement...

 

[Carrie A]

if a person wears make-up does she hate the way she looks? if a person always wears heels does she hate her height? if a person wears a push-up bra does she hate her breast size? maybe she does, maybe she doesn't but it's ridiculous to draw a conclusion one way or another just simply based on her "style choice"

Not necessarily but I'm sure she thinks she looks better by making those choices. There is a desire to project a certain "image" with all beauty choices ie youth. At the end of the day or within minutes all of those choices can be reversed. I wonder what we are trying to project by wearing straight hair all the time. It's just something I think about.

 

[msa]

i can see that. but maybe for some they DO feel more beautiful with relaxed/straight hair.

to each her own.

i relax because i want to and i like it. and (not directed toward you but the topic in general) i can care less what people think of me as a result of it.

I think that's sad.

Basically, IMO, when people say natural hair is too much maintenance = natural hair takes to much effort to make it LOOK like long straight, hair.

Tell the truth!

The only reason people have such a hard time with maintenance is because they're trying to force their hair to do things it doesn't do naturally.

 

[audacity.]

Why can't the sentiment be that some women of color relax because they do not like nappy hair/themselves and others do it for other reasons that don't involve the former? I just don't get it....

i feel you! but we know

up 'round hee-yah there is NEVER any middle ground.

if you relax, it is SOME form of self-hatred period

if you don't you're better than those who do

that's it. no middle ground

 

[hairsothick]

When I was a teenager, I relaxed because that's all I knew.

Now I relax because I feel like it. I'm on a 6 month stretch right now and if I do well I may continue on and transition.

I will admit that part of my decision to continue relaxing is because I don't know what my hair would look like as a natural or if I would like how it looked on me, but we will see.

And to be 100 percent honest, if I was a curly head (3a/b) I would have been natural a long time ago. Heck, my mother probably would have never relaxed my hair in the first place.

Just keeping it real.

First step to fixing a problem is admitting that there is one so...

 

[audacity.]

I think that's sad.

it is sad but it's true

like i said

to each her own

 

[Southernbella.]

I only once saw a website of Asian folk getting "nappy perms" which is really the best i can describe it as. Basically trying to get hair like black people. That is the only time I have ever seen that.

A lot of people have hair issues...I relaxed my hair at 14, sadly because I was raised with the mistaken notion that I had to keep my hair braided or loose it, and I was tired of getting braided every dang week. I really did. So I relaxed my hair so I could wear it out. But relaxer broke my hair, so I am transitioning.

The reason I know people have issues, is relaxers are not for everyone. I see people who have terrible hair, even after trying all sorts of regimens...not to mention people who can't even afford to maintain relaxed hair...but they'd rather keep jacked up relaxers than God forbid someone sees their natural hair.

I see people wear TERRIBLE weaves, rather than God forbid someone sees your hair...

And as for maintenance...I wash and go with my natural hair, it is a lot easier than relaxed hair.

Basically, IMO, when people say natural hair is too much maintenance = natural hair takes to much effort to make it LOOK like long straight, hair.

I think you hit the nail on the head, especially the bolded.

I would also add relaxing children under 12 years old to that list.

I'm more inclined to think that relaxers are simply a choice for women like those of us here on LHCF, because healthy hair is desireable, regardless of texture. But when women would rather have 2 inches of chewed up hair and no edges than let anyone see their naps, I think it goes beyond style choice.

I also agree that hate is too strong a word for what we're discussing.

 

[Je Ne Sais Quoi]

I wonder to myself how much texture plays into all of these opinions spouted as "truths"....

 

[rabs77]

I straighten sometimes because it's one of my options. When I'm over it, I wash it out.

Exactly!
As a natural, I can CHOOSE to wear MY hair naturally curly or straight.

 

[Carrie A]

I wonder to myself how much texture plays into all of these opinions spouted as "truths"....

Could you expound on that point please?

 

[Je Ne Sais Quoi]

Exactly!
As a natural, I can CHOOSE to wear MY hair naturally curly or straight.

Just so you know, that means that you hate yourself one day and love yourself the next

 

[msa]

What if you love certain things about your natural hair and also certain about your hair when its relaxed? Can you love both and merely choose one over the other depending on your mood. Hmm. :scratchch Lol.

Having a relaxer doesn't allow you choose one or the other depending on your mood. You can't go from SL relaxed hair to SL natural hair in a day. You can go from SL pressed hair to SL natural hair in a matter of minutes. I don't agree with straightening either, but I recognize there's a difference.

What I was trying to say is that if a person really loves their natural hair, then they wouldn't relax.

 

[Kirei]

To me and from experiences, it is not just a style. I am natural now but was relaxed when I was about 4, I have been natural once after that but it was to grow my hair out and I wore braids the whole time.

Now, we have to remember that with all things there are exceptions to the rules. If you are a woman who relaxed after being natural and have no problem with your natural hair, YOU my friend are an exception to the rule.

The rule is, black women would rather be bald with dry, thin, flaky hair then to actually let their hair grow out and be natural. I have seen old ladies with BIG bakd spots in their hair, still going to the beauty salon to get that relaxer, why? They obviously think the HAM they have on their head is better than a nice lush afro, they are too scared to even try.

You have to admit there is a problem when women are walking around with busted weaves (yall know the matted kind), bald spots, thin air, no edges, dandruff flaky scalp but when asked if they have ever thought of going natural, they just about die at the thought! So, you mean your HAM on the top of your head is better than what your hair would look like natural?

Also in regards to LHCF and black women not having issues, it is like Bint said the infamous amnesia people have with all these types of threads.

 

[Je Ne Sais Quoi]

Could you expound on that point please?

Well, if you are a 1a - 3c would your opinions (pro or against) be different than someone who is 4z?

 

[audacity.]

Not necessarily but I'm sure she thinks she looks better by making those choices. There is a desire to project a certain "image" with all beauty choices ie youth. At the end of the day or within minutes all of those choices can be reversed. I wonder what we are trying to project by wearing straight hair all the time. It's just something I think about.

is there something wrong with a woman wanting to look good?

if she feels more beautiful with her relaxed hair, push-up bra, high heels and face full of make up, what's wrong with that? does that mean she doesn't like herself? not necessarily (sp).

@ the bolded: does this statement include naturals who only wear their hair straight?

 

[msa]

i feel you! but we know

up 'round hee-yah there is NEVER any middle ground.

if you relax, it is SOME form of self-hatred period

if you don't you're better than those who do

that's it. no middle ground

Who is saying this stuff?

Let me make it clear again just in case people are getting the wrong idea.

I do not think that self-hate applies to this conversation at all. It is too serious an issue for a hair debate.

I do not think those who do not relax are better than those who do.

 

[janiebaby]

I've transitioned to natural and like someone else said, my scalp is starting to get more and more sensitive. I see it as a good thing. Pain signals that something is wrong and when I do feel pain it's because the dang on shampoo girl is scratching my scalp.

I love myself but I wasn't thinking about self-love when I decided to go natural. I was thinking about how I didn't want to overprocess it anymore, I get my hair colored because I have alot of gray and I also went to Dominicans who use alot of heat and all of this was just too much for my hair. I have thick hair that looked bone straight and lifeless. Plus, after 2 weeks my hair would start looking raggedy again anyway because my hair grows fast and my new growth is some tough stuff.

I figured if I was having problems both ways I'd might as well take the safer route and avoid overprocessing. And, I know this is long but, I noticed that as you get older your hair tends to thin out (I've noticed my grandmothers don't need relaxers now) and I wanted a thicker start.

 

[SvelteVelvet]

It's quite erroneous to rate the level of love or hate a person has for themselves, based on what you love or hate for yourself.

Here's my question: Why would the hairstyle choices of another person whose head is attached the THEIR bodies be sooooo revelant to ANYONE else but them?

This discussion reminds me of School Daze..

 

[Southernbella.]

Let's ask Mwedzi that question or any other natural with the the thickest and kinkiest of hair and see if they are in agreement...

Extremely thick head here, and yes, my natural hair requires maintenence. But so did my relaxed hair. I couldn't blowdry my relaxed hair because it would cause breakage, so I had to rollerset, and rollersetting was hell on earth. I had to relax in sections because it was too thick to try to do it all in one shot. Relax days were very long and tiring. My texlaxed hair was even worse, because it poofed up when straight and I had to detangle very carefully because it was weaker due to the relaxer.

So for me, my hair requires maintenence no matter what state it's in.

 

[jennboo]

How could a person hate something they never knew?

People KNOW, or are aware of, the stigma's associated with natural hair. One does not need to actually possess a specific trait, characteristic, or quality to know that it is deemed undesirable.

 

[msa]

is there something wrong with a woman wanting to look good?

if she feels more beautiful with her relaxed hair, push-up bra, high heels and face full of make up, what's wrong with that? does that mean she doesn't like herself? not necessarily (sp).

@ the bolded: does this statement include naturals who only wear their hair straight?

I include naturals who only wear their hair straight, as well as naturals who only wear weaves. But that's just me.

 

[Je Ne Sais Quoi]

When the same woman that is relaxing her hair is also bleaching her skin, getting lipo'd, a nose job and wearing contacts we can then continue the discussion.

Oh wait....there is Lil Kim right?

 

[BKVincy]

I also believe that there is such a thin line between hate well im not using that word anymore dislike and ignorance

I think many people including myself will dislike or not know how to adjust to something they just dont understand and not only dont they understand it for what ever reason do not or can not or just simply might not have the time to do the research.That doesnt equate to hate... only ignorance (not ignorance in a bad way just honestly not knowing)

 

[Kirei]

I honestly think the real question is:

Why do so many black women walk around with damaged hair and bald spots from relaxers but continue to relax?
I seems like people actually don't remember that they actually have another type of hair that grows out of their head, they have another option to relaxing.

 

[Summer_Rain]

I never said they hated it, I said they do not love it. There's a difference.

And like I said in the other thread, I recognize there is can be a difference between someone who has been relaxed their whole lives and someone who was relaxed/BC'd/relaxed again.

But, unless someone relaxes every 4 weeks, they've dealt with a bit of natural hair. I mean how many folks complain on the hairboard every day about their 8 weeks post new growth being so difficult? They've already formed an opinion about their natural hair so they know it a little bit.

hate/love, something in the middle - my question still, how can anyone have an appreciation, love, fondness, for something they've never known? Now me personally - I don't count the hair 9 or so weeks out of my scalp as a true representation of what my full, natural & maintained hair would be like.

But if you acknowledge the POV of someone relaxed their entire lives then thats cool. IMHO, I think most black women probably fall into that category.

 

[hairsothick]

Well, if you are a 1a - 3c would your opinions (pro or against) be different than someone who is 4z?

Honestly I don't even consider the opinions of people with a different hair type than mine to be relevant to me as far as this topic is concerned. Not saying it's right, but hey...

 

[Xavier]

Are naturals who constantly flat iron and press suffering from the same self hate issues?

 

[Carrie A]

is there something wrong with a woman wanting to look good?

if she feels more beautiful with her relaxed hair, push-up bra, high heels and face full of make up, what's wrong with that? does that mean she doesn't like herself? not necessarily (sp).

@ the bolded: does this statement include naturals who only wear their hair straight?

No not at all. I'm all for make-up, bras that fit with properly placed bra straps, and heels in moderation. I still feel there is a projection of an idea and I like to think about what that might be.....for myself as well.

Yes to the bolded.
And I'm not talking about not liking yourself persay. I'm just questioning what influences our decisions about beauty.

(of course it doesn't help that I have a roller set in my avatar.)

 

[audacity.]

When the same woman that is relaxing her hair is also bleaching her skin, getting lipo'd, a nose job and wearing contacts we can then continue the discussion.

Oh wait....there is Lil Kim right?

and i WOULD say that she doesn't like herself very much...

BUT this conversation has nothing to do with loving or hating oneself

it about whether or not relaxing is the same as bleaching your skin, plastic surgery, etc...

and NO it isn't. there are more reasons why it's NOT than why it is...