Awww come on lets finish the discussion! It was civil!

[Je Ne Sais Quoi]

Like I said in the last thread there will never be a clear defined answer on this regardless of what anyone says or thinks. Everything is not what it seems.

I can not judge a relaxed woman and say she clearly hates herself without knowing what her true reasons are for going that route. Also, just because you are natural doesn't make you any better than that person that chooses to relax. Naturals can operate in other forms of self hate that just aren't as apparent in an outwardly fashion.

Using myself as an example, i enjoyed my hair while natural but hated that fact that when I wanted to occasionally wear it straightened all of my hard work was for naught (do you remember those birthday pics i posted? LOL). Also all the time combing, moisturizing, battling at times with my hair just to make a ponytail was ridiculous at times. I figured texlaxing was the way to go. Now, as you can see in my sig i'm considering dropping the chemicals. I don't know if i will or won't but it's been heavy on my mind. Does this mean that i hated myself before and now that i'm possibly transitioning i'm starting to love myself again? I don't think so.

 

[*Frisky*]

If you dont want to discuss then don't. I liked that particular discussion so I continued it. Period end of story.

You don't have to get attitudinal with me. I made a statement and that was it. You seem to always want things to go in your favor and if they don't, then you have issues...chill and discuss this ignorant topic if you want..makes me none.

 

[tocktick]

As someone said in the last thread, being natural doesn't automatically mean you don't have issue with hair anyway. There have been countless threads here with women wanting to relax again; in most cases, their reasons are either paper thin or they're upfront about going through some kind of crisis where they feel ugly (imo). Thus, my point is that whilst some may think relaxed hair is potentially indicative of being self-hating in some instances, being natural doesn't automatically mean you're not.

There is no clear cut answer regarding if someone is self-hating or not due to their hair choices. But on a wider level, the assumption that relaxing is wide-spread due to deeper issues (i.e - based on more than style) can be made based on our history, the beauty standard, common views on natural/nappy hair, and the women out in droves relaxing their hair globally. JMHO. This is a complex and multi-layered issue.

 

[sunshinelady]

Here's the difference, a relaxer can hurt you, likely will burn you. A curly perm does not.

 

[*~Mocha~*]

I dont understand how getting a relaxer equate to self hate. I have read so many articles, boards, youtube videos about black women and self hate because they relax their hair.

Other races do chemically process their hair but doesnt get looked as self hating. Caucasians get curly perms, as well other types of permanet hair straightening.
If you go to the sephora website more than half of the reviews on phyto is from caucasians and other races not just blacks. But we are looked at as self hating. I love myself, I love being black, I relax my hair as a style choice. Just like how Becky dye her hair or Molly straightened her curly hair or whatever.. Im so tired of black woman self hate topics. I mean seriously if we hated being black straightening our hair will not void the fact we still got black skin.

 

[Kirei]

You don't have to get attitudinal with me. I made a statement and that was it. You seem to always want things to go in your favor and if they don't, then you have issues...chill and discuss this ignorant topic if you want..makes me none.

perplexed If it makes you none then have a nice day and enjoy another topic.

And I have issues? You can PM me if you want to get something off your chest.


.....now back to reading ignorant topic.....

 

[audacity.]

OP did request it to be closed.

basically what she said was "people in the thread about the surgery to change eye color said that relaxing was the same as plastic surgery, skin bleaching etc. Do you think relaxing is a drastic alteration or just a style chioce?"

thanks, msa!

relaxing your hair IS an altercation but i look at relaxing as more of an "enhancement" like make-up or colored contacts...plastic surgery, skin bleaching, etc is permanent. so i suppose it's a "style choice"

relaxins is not permanent because you can cut it out. yes it has permanently altered your hair, but it doesn't have to stay that way like the man who got new eyes or bleaching your skin...

did i make sense?

 

[CandiceC]

Considering that I was involuntarily relaxed at 8yrs old before I was old enough to know what self-hate (in whatever form) was - I can only say that I continue to relax out of habit. I could possibly LOVE the hair that grows naturally out of my scalp, but I don't have the patience or the resources to go through the process of finding out. And because finding out isn't that important to me - I just continue to do what has been done to me for the past 23 years....relax my new growth every 8-12 weeks.

This is me all the way. I think about what it would be like to be natural, but I don't have the patience to transition.

I'm not feeling the whole big chop thing cause I don't want my hair short whether it's relaxed or natural.

If I could have the current hair on my head turn natural at the snap of a finger, I'd try it for sure.

 

[msa]

I just want to make myself clear.

IMO, self-hate is a psychological issue that can be manifested in different ways. But, I do not believe that relaxing is indicative of self-hate. "Self-hate" is too serious of an issue to just keep throwing it out there like that.

I do believe that relaxing shows that the person does not love their natural hair, they may like it and they may have though it was fun for a while or that it was a nice style change, but they do not love it. If someone wants to extend that to they don't love themselves, fine, but that's not how I feel.

If you want to stone me for making assumptions about how other people feel about their hair, then fine. This is just my opinion, based on people's actions and the words that accompany those actions.

 

[CandiceC]

You don't have to get attitudinal with me. I made a statement and that was it. You seem to always want things to go in your favor and if they don't, then you have issues...chill and discuss this ignorant topic if you want..makes me none.

What do you mean by ignorant topic?

 

[Southernbella.]

That would be a good spinoff topic: Why do naturals straighten?

You'll find that there is no one reason why some choose to straighten.

I straighten sometimes because it's one of my options. When I'm over it, I wash it out.

 

[msa]

thanks, msa!

relaxing your hair IS an altercation but i look at relaxing as more of an "enhancement" like make-up or colored contacts...plastic surgery, skin bleaching, etc is permanent. so i suppose it's a "style choice"

relaxins is not permanent because you can cut it out. yes it has permanently altered your hair, but it doesn't have to stay that way like the man who got new eyes or bleaching your skin...

did i make sense?

Yup you make complete sense. I don't agree, but I understand.

I have a problem with relaxing being considered an enhancement. It feeds into the idea that relaxed hair makes people more beautiful.

 

[Je Ne Sais Quoi]

I just want to make myself clear.

IMO, self-hate is a psychological issue that can be manifested in different ways. But, I do not believe that relaxing is indicative of self-hate. "Self-hate" is too serious of an issue to just keep throwing it out there like that.

I do believe that relaxing shows that the person does not love their natural hair, they may like it and they may have though it was fun for a while or that it was a nice style change, but they do not love it. If someone wants to extend that to they don't love themselves, fine, but that's not how I feel.

If you want to stone me for making assumptions about how other people feel about their hair, then fine. This is just my opinion, based on people's actions and the words that accompany those actions.

MSA i disagree 1000% on this. Or at least, not with everybody.

 

[msa]

MSA i disagree 1000% on this. Or at least, not with everybody.

99% of people disagree with it and believe me, I understand and don't have a problem with it. Everyone has different views.

 

[Je Ne Sais Quoi]

What a boring world this would be if everyone conformed to the standard of how one is "supposed" to look, act, speak, in regards to their ethnic makeup.

 

[Carrie A]

Relaxing is a permanent alteration that straightens hair. The hair is then styled so the relaxer it's self is not a style but a modification.

 

[Qualitee]

I loved my natural and I love relaxed hair. I relaxed my hair because I want to wear straight styles most of the time.

 

[Je Ne Sais Quoi]

Why can't the sentiment be that some women of color relax because they do not like nappy hair/themselves and others do it for other reasons that don't involve the former? I just don't get it....

 

[audacity.]

What do you mean by ignorant topic?

don't think she'll be back in this thread but the topic is ignorant in the sense that

what difference does it make?

for someone to make assumptions about a person based on whether or not she relaxes her hair is ignorant to me.

if a person wears make-up does she hate the way she looks? if a person always wears heels does she hate her height? if a person wears a push-up bra does she hate her breast size? maybe she does, maybe she doesn't but it's ridiculous to draw a conclusion one way or another just simply based on her "style choice"

 

[Summer_Rain]

This is me all the way. I think about what it would be like to be natural, but I don't have the patience to transition.

I'm not feeling the whole big chop thing cause I don't want my hair short whether it's relaxed or natural.

If I could have the current hair on my head turn natural at the snap of a finger, I'd try it for sure.

Same here. If I had came across this forum in college - I'd probably be rocking my natural goodness right now. But a las, I found this place about 10yrs too late. I think that force of habit is probably a more likely culprit than style choices or "hatred" of natural. In truth - I'd likely have tons more options with my natural hair. I could rock an afro, sport a coily-do, get a blow job and be silky straight. As it is now, to do anything with texture I have to use heat and go thru a 2hr beautification process

 

[jennboo]

Lawd...

I just want to copy and paste my previous responses to these topics AND bump up my "is relaxing tantamount to skin bleaching" thread.

 

[Summer_Rain]

I just want to make myself clear.

IMO, self-hate is a psychological issue that can be manifested in different ways. But, I do not believe that relaxing is indicative of self-hate. "Self-hate" is too serious of an issue to just keep throwing it out there like that.

I do believe that relaxing shows that the person does not love their natural hair, they may like it and they may have though it was fun for a while or that it was a nice style change, but they do not love it. If someone wants to extend that to they don't love themselves, fine, but that's not how I feel.

If you want to stone me for making assumptions about how other people feel about their hair, then fine. This is just my opinion, based on people's actions and the words that accompany those actions.

How could a person hate something they never knew?

 

[*Frisky*]

What do you mean by ignorant topic?

I call it ignorant because topics like these always bring up ill feelings for whatever reason but if it can be discussed without all that then it's cool.

 

[audacity.]

Yup you make complete sense. I don't agree, but I understand.

I have a problem with relaxing being considered an enhancement. It feeds into the idea that relaxed hair makes people more beautiful.

i can see that. but maybe for some they DO feel more beautiful with relaxed/straight hair.

to each her own.

i relax because i want to and i like it. and (not directed toward you but the topic in general) i can care less what people think of me as a result of it.

 

[*Frisky*]

perplexed If it makes you none then have a nice day and enjoy another topic.

And I have issues? You can PM me if you want to get something off your chest.


.....now back to reading ignorant topic.....

No need for a pm...enjoy

 

[audacity.]

How could a person hate something they never knew?

can i thank you 1,000,000,000 times for this statement?

 

[Farida]

I only once saw a website of Asian folk getting "nappy perms" which is really the best i can describe it as. Basically trying to get hair like black people. That is the only time I have ever seen that.

A lot of people have hair issues...I relaxed my hair at 14, sadly because I was raised with the mistaken notion that I had to keep my hair braided or loose it, and I was tired of getting braided every dang week. I really did. So I relaxed my hair so I could wear it out. But relaxer broke my hair, so I am transitioning.

The reason I know people have issues, is relaxers are not for everyone. I see people who have terrible hair, even after trying all sorts of regimens...not to mention people who can't even afford to maintain relaxed hair...but they'd rather keep jacked up relaxers than God forbid someone sees their natural hair.

I see people wear TERRIBLE weaves, rather than God forbid someone sees your hair...

And as for maintenance...I wash and go with my natural hair, it is a lot easier than relaxed hair.

Basically, IMO, when people say natural hair is too much maintenance = natural hair takes to much effort to make it LOOK like long straight, hair.

 

[msa]

How could a person hate something they never knew?

I never said they hated it, I said they do not love it. There's a difference.

And like I said in the other thread, I recognize there is can be a difference between someone who has been relaxed their whole lives and someone who was relaxed/BC'd/relaxed again.

But, unless someone relaxes every 4 weeks, they've dealt with a bit of natural hair. I mean how many folks complain on the hairboard every day about their 8 weeks post new growth being so difficult? They've already formed an opinion about their natural hair so they know it a little bit.

 

[BKVincy]

I think were putting to much blame on ourselves and not enough blame on the society that brainwashes us to think that thats what we are suppose to do.

Throwing the whole "self hate" judgement around is just a put down to others and does not and will not result with a positive comeback

 

[CandiceC]

I just want to make myself clear.

IMO, self-hate is a psychological issue that can be manifested in different ways. But, I do not believe that relaxing is indicative of self-hate. "Self-hate" is too serious of an issue to just keep throwing it out there like that.

I do believe that relaxing shows that the person does not love their natural hair, they may like it and they may have though it was fun for a while or that it was a nice style change, but they do not love it. If someone wants to extend that to they don't love themselves, fine, but that's not how I feel.

If you want to stone me for making assumptions about how other people feel about their hair, then fine. This is just my opinion, based on people's actions and the words that accompany those actions.

What if you love certain things about your natural hair and also certain about your hair when its relaxed? Can you love both and merely choose one over the other depending on your mood. Hmm. :scratchch Lol.

Yeah. I think "self-hate" are too strong for a generalization.


Rambling...
What if you're bald by choice? Does that mean you don't love your natural hair? What if you love being bald more?