David Banner says Black Women Should Not Perm Their Hair

[JessCNU]

It's not the question itself. its the way people ask it.

don't come at me sideways asking me why "i put that "stuff" in my hair"..... cause you might not like the answer.

if you really ask me in a respectful way that itsn't like your condemning me then i have no problem answering the question.

 

[JessCNU]

I just think he is talking out of both sides of his neck with this one. if you care so much about black on black perm crimes then as an artist, try and send out the message you speak. If he is just in it for the money and is willing to sell out on his ideas just to make a buck then how different is he than the black women in corp. America with the relaxer who supposedly hates herself??

and established artists do have a say in their videos depending on how closely they work with the vid. director. David Banner has been out for a while now. I'm sure if he wanted natural sisters in his videos it wouldn't be too hard to do.[/quote]

It would be very hard trust me.....I have not seen very many black vid models with natural hair.......most I have seen are very light skin mixed chicks( and you know we cant have a bunch of naturalhaired light chicks in a video)

To me this topic I would rather not further comment on, cause its a road to nowhere

yeah we are just gonna have to agree to disagree on that one because I see women of all shades with natural hair in videos, mags, commericals...
And i'm sure there are many more waiting to be cast. It may take more effort but hey... how bad does he want to make the statement?

 

[DaDragonPrincess]

It's not the question itself. its the way people ask it.

don't come at me sideways asking me why "i put that "stuff" in my hair"..... cause you might not like the answer.

if you really ask me in a respectful way that itsn't like your condemning me then i have no problem answering the question.

EXACTLY my point

 

[msa]

It's not the question itself. its the way people ask it.

don't come at me sideways asking me why "i put that "stuff" in my hair"..... cause you might not like the answer.

if you really ask me in a respectful way that itsn't like your condemning me then i have no problem answering the question.

Ok I can see that, the way people say things is always important.

But consider the fact that relaxers are stinky (and kind of mysterious) for men. Referring to it as "that stuff" with a look of disgust doesn't really surprise me. As a man (and as a woman too lol) I wouldn't be able to understand why someone would want to put it on their head, especially if most of my experiences with it have been negative (ie listening to mothers/sisters complain about burning, etc.).

And if someone always refers to their new growth as "nappy s***" or a "nappy mess" etc. etc....it doesn't really sound like they love, or even like, their natural hair. So "why don't you love your natural hair" seems like a valid question, IMO.

 

[Tarae]

I really was asking a genuine question because I'm interested in the answer. mainly because I ask similar questions in real life (ex: why do you relax? why don't you love your natural hair?) and I'm wondering why people would consider those inappropriate.

I'm relaxed and I've never had anyone ask me those questions. I don't think I'd be offended either.

Maybe she doesn't like being asked why she doesn't "love" her natural hair? Maybe she thinks the person is "bashing" her, accusing her of hating her natural hair when they ask why she doesn't "love" her hair. I don't know. Like I said, I never got those questions.

But I'm not offended by David Banner's comments, or that other dude on youtube that ladies post on here often (that Sargent whoever he is), or anyone else who doesn't like relaxers/perms/chemicals/etc.

 

[LongCurlz]

yeah we are just gonna have to agree to disagree on that one because I see women of all shades with natural hair in videos, mags, commericals...
And i'm sure there are many more waiting to be cast. It may take more effort but hey... how bad does he want to make the statement?

I agree

 

[DaDragonPrincess]

When have I refered to my new growth as nappy or napps? If I thought it was so horrible,I wouldnt stretch as much as I do, its not like I get a relaxer every week.


I'm done with this topic.

 

[CurlyMoo]

Who is David Banner? Is he Black?

 

[JessCNU]

well i don't know any men smelling relaxer as it's being mixed. most aren't even in the shop unless they are putting the relaxer in so i don't know about that...

and as far as having a bad episode with a relaxer... yeah its possible and if you dont know what your doing with anything you can mess it up. but you can jack up a natural head of hair just like you can relaxed. its not the hair but the person doing it and whether or not they know what they are doing.

and i don't assume how somebody refers to their hair as the end all be all of how they feel about it. everyone isn't racing to the relaxer when they feel new growth. i play in mine and after 10-12 weeks i touch it up. its not a nappy mess but I do have two different textures on my head that make it hard to cope(not saying one is better than the other) so i gets me a perm! lol

 

[Amerie123]

Not only is this beating a dead horse, but I'ma go ahead and say this:

People alter things ALL THE TIME!! A LOT OF US (LIKE MYSELF) LOVE OUR NATURAL HAIR, AND CHOOSE TO RELAX DUE TO CONVENIENCE, STYLING OPTIONS, ETC.

OKAY, AS FOR THOSE THAT REALLY RELAX BECAUSE THEY HONESTLY HATE THEIR NATURAL HAIR,....................SO WHAT!! IT'S THEIR HAIR, IF THEY HATE IT, THEY CAN CHOOSE TO ALTER IT.
PEOPLE OTHER THAN BLACKS ALTER THINGS THAT THEY DON'T LIKE. IT'S JUST THE WAY OF THE MEDIA, AND OF THE WORLD. WHITE PEOPLE BURNING THE CRAP OUTTA THEMSELVES W/ UV LIGHT JUST TO GET A LITTLE DARKER, IT DOESN'T MEAN THEY HATE BEING WHITE!!

BTW: I CAN ACHIEVE THE NATURAL LOOK W/ RODS ETC, SO IT DOESN'T MEAN I DISLIKE MY NATURAL HAIR.

ETA: I ADMIRE THE WOMEN THAT WEAR THEIR NATURAL HAIR (A LOT), BUT I ALSO RESPECT WOMEN THAT RELAX.

 

[msa]

When have I refered to my new growth as nappy or napps? If I thought it was so horrible,I wouldnt stretch as much as I do, its not like I get a relaxer every week.


I'm done with this topic.

Oh no seriously I was speaking in generalities. Really. Please don't feel like I was attacking you personally.

well i don't know any men smelling relaxer as it's being mixed. most aren't even in the shop unless they are putting the relaxer in so i don't know about that...

and as far as having a bad episode with a relaxer... yeah its possible and if you dont know what your doing with anything you can mess it up. but you can jack up a natural head of hair just like you can relaxed. its not the hair but the person doing it and whether or not they know what they are doing.

and i don't assume how somebody refers to their hair as the end all be all of how they feel about it. everyone isn't racing to the relaxer when they feel new growth. i play in mine and after 10-12 weeks i touch it up. its not a nappy mess but I do have two different textures on my head that make it hard to cope(not saying one is better than the other) so i gets me a perm! lol

I know many guys who know what a relaxer and burnt hair smell like because their family members did their hair at home. I know my ex told me one time that he was so happy I never had that "burnt hair smell" because it grossed him out.

And I agree, how someone refers to their isn't the end all be all. But if all you've heard is women refer to their natural hair in a negative way, you might want to ask why they don't love it.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[msa]

BTW: I CAN ACHIEVE THE NATURAL LOOK W/ RODS ETC, SO IT DOESN'T MEAN I DISLIKE MY NATURAL HAIR.

ETA: I ADMIRE THE WOMEN THAT WEAR THEIR NATURAL HAIR (A LOT), BUT I ALSO RESPECT WOMEN THAT RELAX.

I don't know if you meant to yell, but that's what writing in all caps denotes in internet etiquette.

What is "the natural look" exactly?

It always interests me when people say they "admire" women that wear their natural hair.

What is it about our environment that creates the sense that wearing ones natural hair is admirable? Is it because they choose to do something that is considered negative in our society? Is it because it takes some kind of courage to wear natural hair? Is it because those women chose to wear the hair they were given instead of using relaxers for manageability/ease?

Just rhetorical questions, not specifically aimed at you amazing, or anyone else.

 

[yuriko]

I wonder if some people are going out of their way to defend him because they share his point of view. Black people really need to stop putting each other down. If you really want show natural gals in a positive light, cast them in your videos, then say that you think natural hair is beautiful. You don't have to talk about the ladies who have relaxed hair. I have been on the committee that interview potential employees, and I can tell you that the natural gals and the guys and girls with locs made the white folks uncomfortable; they never admitted it though, they always said something like she does not look friendly, bla bla bla

I know men who shave their beards after they have not found a job after a certain period of time. If someone feels they have to do anything to get a job, it is nobody's place to judge, especially not David Banner

 

[sylver2]

Pulease..if i didn't know who he was and what he was about already..his words would actually mean something .

 

[imaccami]

Someone mentioned before that he has contradicted himself.

On the one hand it's ok for him to do whatever he needs to do to make it in his career ie: put out trashy music with degrading videos. But, women who feel that they need to be relaxed to make it in their career are committing black on black crime.

Does he know what hypocrite means?

And as far as the women in his videos, the artist does have some say in it. I remember from the show Making the Video where they showed NSync picking out girls for one of their videos, and on another episode some girl was picking out the guy to play her love interest.

And on top of that, I don't understand his point. If a woman feels that she needs a relaxer to get a certain type of job, how is that black on black crime? She isn't committing a crime against women who are natural, she's just getting a job. I don't get it.

 

[JessCNU]

Oh no seriously I was speaking in generalities. Really. Please don't feel like I was attacking you personally.



I know many guys who know what a relaxer and burnt hair smell like because their family members did their hair at home. I know my ex told me one time that he was so happy I never had that "burnt hair smell" because it grossed him out.

And I agree, how someone refers to their isn't the end all be all. But if all you've heard is women refer to their natural hair in a negative way, you might want to ask why they don't love it.

I hope that makes sense.

That Burnt smell can come from the use of heat.... Naturals use heat too. and my man LOVES the way my hair smells. matter of fact he told me just last night. I see you obviously have issues with the fact that women use relaxers.( not the women themselves ) and that's your opinion which i respect. all i'm saying is if people don't want people putting down natural hair then try not putting down relaxed hair. We don't all burn out our scalp with a funky mix that leaves our hair stinky and burnt smelling. and i'm sure this horse has been beat before but i just had to say my peace.

 

[JJamiah]

This is going to be an unpopular opinion but isn't that what he was alluding to? How many people actually read the whole blurb and not just that one sentence?

It's not like he came out of the blue for no reason and said black women shouldn't perm their hair. He asked a question, women responded with they perm their hair so they will have more job options and not be discriminated against by potential employers because of their natural hair, and then he responded accordingly. I'm not sure why he used a black on black crime analogy but he followed it up with Black-on-black crime is not just a black person committing a violent act against another black person. I took it to mean small and closed minded people are holding us back if we truly believe we have to perm our hair to get a job. People who don't know anything about our hair, or do not like it because they don't understand it, would be considered ignorant right?

He's not a dumb man by any means. He's college educated, a member of a BGLO, and used to be a teacher. Maybe he just flubbed on that quote? He shouldn't have said anything if he wasn't going to get his words straight, IMO because that just made him look dumb.

And to the argument about the natural women in the videos, it is what it is. How many video girls have you seen that are natural to begin with? Most of them have weaves to their butt anyway. How do you pick natural women when they're not even in the pool? Y'all know they use the same chicks back to back video after video. Usually natural hair comes with enlightenment and I would hope that the enlightened ladies aren't interested in a$$ shaking in music videos when they could be doing something more constructive.

Being college educated doesn't mean he isn't DUMB at all. There are lot of Ignorant and not so BRIGHT college educated people. The Lady with 8 recently birthed has A College education and her reason for having these eggs inplanted (She can't afford 8 plus her other kids I forgot how many extra) is because she was LONELY! Not the reason for having kids, they deserve more than filling your void!

These are my opinions, people might not agree with them. FEEL FREE TO DISAGREE, IT's America!!! I LOVE all hair Natural Been there, Relaxed been there too and doing it again. What I do with my head is my Business not yours or anyone else. Except my husband who wants me to grow my hair back! NOW, with that being said, I love you ladies! Lets talk HAIR! I have Hair Anorexia. Any Helpful words!

 

[Amerie123]

I don't know if you meant to yell, but that's what writing in all caps denotes in internet etiquette.

What is "the natural look" exactly?

It always interests me when people say they "admire" women that wear their natural hair.

What is it about our environment that creates the sense that wearing ones natural hair is admirable? Is it because they choose to do something that is considered negative in our society? Is it because it takes some kind of courage to wear natural hair? Is it because those women chose to wear the hair they were given instead of using relaxers for manageability/ease?

Just rhetorical questions, not specifically aimed at you amazing, or anyone else.

No, i didn't mean to yell, I was just writing in caps so it can stand out .. it's so far in the thread, and most ppl don't tend to read posts that far. Thats why I wrote in caps.

The reason why "I" (cant speak for no one else) admire women with natural hair has nothing to do with the way society views it, but the time that they put into styling it, or caring for it. We all know that it takes a lot more time and work than relaxed hair most of the time. Trust me I know, that's why my brother relaxed his daughter's long 3b/3c hair, he, nor she, nor her mom couldn't take it. Plus women on here even say that taking care of their natural hair take work. So, has nothing to do with natural hair not being acceptable. Even the hair that is accepted a lot of times (i.e. my niece), even take work.

And MSA, no offense taken whatsoever. I enjoy reading your posts and seeing your point of view. Its good to have feedback from both sides.

Oh, ETA: for me, the natural look is small coils (appx 4a-ish), so if I (again, just talking about me), wanted to achieve those coils, then I'd get me a small straw set and finger comb them out.

 

[joemerald]

Even though it was poorly said, I get the gist of what he is trying to say. He is equating relaxers with AA women self hate. He was attempting to respond to someone else's claim that they straighten their hair for professionalism and such. I know people who still think they need to do it for that reason or to be accepted by the y.t.'s too. I think he is really trying to say those women that they need to have more courage to be themselves and not relax for that reason alone.

Also, I remember him saying in another interview that when he does positive music, it doesn't sell. I think he is still in the hustle mode and cannot truely afford (he doesn't have a huge fan base) to let his true voice be heard yet. It took him a long time to get where he is and he said he puts out what the people want/willing to buy, not necessarily what he wants.

I'm a little partial to him. He's from my hometown.

I do not know who David Banner is, that is the truth but if this is true, and I just used this quote because it fits, nothing to do with the poster, but isn't what he is doing the same thing, trying to make a living. Shoot if someone thinks they need to conform to what society deems acceptable to make a living so what that is their decision who is he to judge, he is also conforming then as he does not make positive music. You can't put down someone when you doing the same thing.

 

[yuriko]

I do not know who David Banner is, that is the truth but if this is true, and I just used this quote because it fits, nothing to do with the poster, but isn't what he is doing the same thing, trying to make a living. Shoot if someone thinks they need to conform to what society deems acceptable to make a living so what that is their decision who is he to judge, he is also conforming then as he does not make positive music. You can't put down someone when you doing the same thing.

Exactly my point. He conforms when it suits him, but judges others that do the same thing. Don't bother, the only reason that people are going to such lengths to defend what he said is because they agree with his opinion.

 

[lilyofthevalley]

Well after reading the thread which asked people if they would change their natural 4a/b to 3b and seeing how a majority of the people who responded to the poll said that they would (because 3b is ideal), I think there's a reason for why so many people question black women's decision to relax their hair. I'm not here to slam anyone for relaxing, honestly I don't care what the next woman does to her hair as I'm not responsible for it. But I'm a little confused as to how people can respond to wanting 3b hair in one poll but get defensive when someone implies that black women relax their hair because they don't like their natural hair. Even on here and on fotki, I've seen ladies telling women with type 2 and 3 hair that they would not relax if they had hair like them. While it is wrong to think that every black woman who relaxes her hair does it out of hatred of their natural hair, we also can't act like that there aren't women out there who are not like this. Just a few weeks ago, I sat in a crowded bus behind two black girls who were laughing and talking loudly about how nappy some guy's hair was. Talking about how did he think he could step to them with his hair looking natty like that. Just a hot mess, I felt embarressed for them.

 

[Nayna]

This is just something that people have to agree to disagree on, I'm not relaxed but i don't buy that argument that women who relax don't love themselves, granted it goes allll the way back to when women were doing it because our hair was looked down on, but this is not that time anymore, as far as looking a certain way for a job everyone does it, and if someone says they dont wear their hair natural for a job thats bull, white or black if u want to work in corporate america or anywhere like that u have to conform, u have to hide tattoos, piercings and things like that, not just ur friggin hair, and why should u come to work like that, theres a time to work and a time to play, show ur tattoos on ur free time. I'm a nursing student, and anyone in that field knows, we cant wear our hair out like that they teach us to pull it up and out ur face and off your shoulders, if u dont like it, work in a different field.

P.S. Madame C.J. Walker is going to kick yalls a$$es for messing with her hustle, lol

 

[envybeauty]

So if 3b folks relax, is it bc they hate their hair? Not all 3b folks are natural. Yet, when 4b relax, it is bc we hate ourselves.

 

[msa]

That Burnt smell can come from the use of heat.... Naturals use heat too. and my man LOVES the way my hair smells. matter of fact he told me just last night. I see you obviously have issues with the fact that women use relaxers.( not the women themselves ) and that's your opinion which i respect. all i'm saying is if people don't want people putting down natural hair then try not putting down relaxed hair. We don't all burn out our scalp with a funky mix that leaves our hair stinky and burnt smelling. and i'm sure this horse has been beat before but i just had to say my peace.

I've never smelled a relaxer that smelled anything less than funky. I was referring to the relaxer mix, not the hair afterward. Anyway, that's my limited experience. And you're right, that burnt smell can come from heat as well.

I haven't, and don't, put down relaxed hair. I've never said it was ugly, a mess, or any other negative remark. But, people put down natural hair ALL throughout this board and IRL. And they do it nonchalantly and as if I'm supposed to just go along, and I won't.

No, i didn't mean to yell, I was just writing in caps so it can stand out .. it's so far in the thread, and most ppl don't tend to read posts that far. Thats why I wrote in caps.

The reason why "I" (cant speak for no one else) admire women with natural hair has nothing to do with the way society views it, but the time that they put into styling it, or caring for it. We all know that it takes a lot more time and work than relaxed hair most of the time. Trust me I know, that's why my brother relaxed his daughter's long 3b/3c hair, he, nor she, nor her mom couldn't take it. Plus women on here even say that taking care of their natural hair take work. So, has nothing to do with natural hair not being acceptable. Even the hair that is accepted a lot of times (i.e. my niece), even take work.

And MSA, no offense taken whatsoever. I enjoy reading your posts and seeing your point of view. Its good to have feedback from both sides.

Oh, ETA: for me, the natural look is small coils (appx 4a-ish), so if I (again, just talking about me), wanted to achieve those coils, then I'd get me a small straw set and finger comb them out.

The bolded is interesting. Thank you for answering that and about the natural look as well. I think it all depends on perspective myself, my hair isn't work because I don't force it to do things it isn't naturally able to do, but that's a whole nother conversation.

 

[HeavenlySkies]

i guess im the only one that knows that 90% of the time a story is posted from mediatakeout its most likely untrue or just made up. I dont see why people are actually getting riled up whether it was true or not...no one but yourselves have to live with your hair so whats the point of taking offense to a statement made by a complete stranger? Its a waste of time and energy worrying about other peoples opinions and thinking there is any truth to anything from that garbage site. Be serious.

 

[lilyofthevalley]

So if 3b folks relax, is it bc they hate their hair? Not all 3b folks are natural. Yet, when 4b relax, it is bc we hate ourselves.

Hmm, don't know if that was specifically directed at me, but I'll answer since I'm the one who brought that 3b thing up. First, I didn't bring that thread up to say that 4b who relax hate themselves. I brought it up because it indicated that there are 4bs who would rather have a hairtype other than the one that they are born with. That obviously doesn't apply to every 4b who relaxes and I'm sure that there are 3bs who don't like their hair either. My best friend is an Indian with type 3a/3b hair and she often refers to her hair as bad and crappy, she gets the Japanese hair straightening. Therefore, I'm well aware that this feeling of wanting hair other than the one you have doesn't just apply to 4bs nor am I saying that all 4bs who relax hate their hair. I'm just saying that every time a topic like this comes up some people make it seems like this group of women who change their hair because they're unhappy with it don't exist and that everyone is just doing it just for a change of style. I'm pointing out that this isn't the case, hence the reponses on that other thread.

 

[LongCurlz]

Well after reading the thread which asked people if they would change their natural 4a/b to 3b and seeing how a majority of the people who responded to the poll said that they would (because 3b is ideal), I think there's a reason for why so many people question black women's decision to relax their hair. I'm not here to slam anyone for relaxing, honestly I don't care what the next woman does to her hair as I'm not responsible for it. But I'm a little confused as to how people can respond to wanting 3b hair in one poll but get defensive when someone implies that black women relax their hair because they don't like their natural hair. Even on here and on fotki, I've seen ladies telling women with type 2 and 3 hair that they would not relax if they had hair like them. While it is wrong to think that every black woman who relaxes her hair does it out of hatred of their natural hair, we also can't act like that there aren't women out there who are not like this. Just a few weeks ago, I sat in a crowded bus behind two black girls who were laughing and talking loudly about how nappy some guy's hair was. Talking about how did he think he could step to them with his hair looking natty like that. Just a hot mess, I felt embarressed for them.

Amen!

 

[yuriko]

Hmm, don't know if that was specifically directed at me, but I'll answer since I'm the one who brought that 3b thing up. First, I didn't bring that thread up to say that 4b who relax hate themselves. I brought it up because it indicated that there are 4bs who would rather have a hairtype other than the one that they are born with. That obviously doesn't apply to every 4b who relaxes and I'm sure that there are 3bs who don't like their hair either. My best friend is an Indian with type 3a/3b hair and she often refers to her hair as bad and crappy, she gets the Japanese hair straightening. Therefore, I'm well aware that this feeling of wanting hair other than the one you have doesn't just apply to 4bs nor am I saying that all 4bs who relax hate their hair. I'm just saying that every time a topic like this comes up some people make it seems like this group of women who change their hair because they're unhappy with it don't exist and that everyone is just doing it just for a change of style. I'm pointing out that this isn't the case, hence the reponses on that other thread.

I still don't see anything positive that comes of anyone pointing out that Black women should not relax their hair, that it is Black on black crime.
India Arie made a statement about hair issues amongst black women in a positive way.

There was nothing positive about this particular statement. No one cares if all white women dye their hair blond, no one cares if they all tan. Why is it so important to people to talk about a black woman's hair. I don't see why it is so important to pursue this topic; or else its a personal issue for you.

 

[Southernbella.]

I still don't see anything positive that comes of anyone pointing out that Black women should not relax their hair, that it is Black on black crime.
India Arie made a statement about hair issues amongst black women in a positive way.

There was nothing positive about this particular statement. No one cares if all white women dye their hair blond, no one cares if they all tan. Why is it so important to people to talk about a black woman's hair. I don't see why it is so important to pursue this topic; or else its a personal issue for you.

White people care. We don't. Just like we care about our hair, and they don't. It's all relative.

 

[Southernbella.]

The reason why "I" (cant speak for no one else) admire women with natural hair has nothing to do with the way society views it, but the time that they put into styling it, or caring for it. We all know that it takes a lot more time and work than relaxed hair most of the time. Trust me I know, that's why my brother relaxed his daughter's long 3b/3c hair, he, nor she, nor her mom couldn't take it. Plus women on here even say that taking care of their natural hair take work. So, has nothing to do with natural hair not being acceptable. Even the hair that is accepted a lot of times (i.e. my niece), even take work.

Not all naturals have a hard time caring for their hair, just like not all relaxed women have chewed up hair.