4a, 4b vs. C-Napp Hair: What's the Difference?

[glamazon386]

Cocoberry:

I do think there is a distinct difference between regular 4a, 4b hair and cnapp hair:

For instance, bmorefly (now known as glamazon ) has a hair type that almost consistently 4a.

What's with the face? But anyway, you're right. My hair is pretty consistent throughout as a 4a. I have some bigger 3c curls mixed in and some 3b at the nape but once my hair is styled it's not that noticeable. If I allow my hair to airdry unmanipulated with no product you can see the difference clearly. The looser textures are bigger curls. They clump in bigger chunks. And they have less shrinkage and will stick out from the majority of my hair when dry.

 

[glamazon386]

J Coily - I used to think one of the biggest differences between Type 3 and Type 4 was shine factor but I've seen Type 3's that don't shine. Ayeshia said her hair is not shiny.

 

[kblc06]

What's with the face? But anyway, you're right. My hair is pretty consistent throughout as a 4a. I have some bigger 3c curls mixed in and some 3b at the nape but once my hair is styled it's not that noticeable. If I allow my hair to airdry unmanipulated with no product you can see the difference clearly. The looser textures are bigger curls. They clump in bigger chunks. And they have less shrinkage and will stick out from the majority of my hair when dry.

Because it still doesn't feel right referring to you by your new name -it's just not the same

 

[glamazon386]

Because it still doesn't feel right referring to you by your new name -it's just not the same

That's what everybody is saying. It's funny because I mentioned it in a thread once before where they were talking about members changing my name. I knew everybody was still gonna call me Bmore. It's okay.

 

[Sunshine0801]

Cocoberry:

True cnapp hair would be the following:

http://www.crazycoil.sili.net/howtodetail.php

See, what's confusing is that my hair looks a lot like hers (in some sections) but has more sheen overall. I have always categorized my hair as 4b, since most of my hair (the front, middle, and sides) have no curl definition. The back section of my hair is 4a I suppose, since it has a noticeably looser curl pattern, and the coils clump together.

 

[sonce]

True cnapp hair would be the following:

http://www.crazycoil.sili.net/howtodetail.php

Interesting. I had forgotten about crazycoil. If that is CNapp then I understand now and it seems that 90% of those claiming CNapp are not CNapps. I was told I was a CNapp and no part of my hair looks like Crazycoil's. I wonder how common her hair type is in the nappy pool. It is so soft and gentle looking.

Some of the styles and looks she can create with her loose hair simply can not be duplicated successfully on regular type 4 hair-if so I have yet to see it (but sonce's recent hair pics/braids does resemble this in terms of its density, but not in its complete refraction of light)

Which styles of hers do you mean?

 

[kblc06]

Interesting. I had forgotten about crazycoil. If that is CNapp then I understand now and it seems that 90% of those claiming CNapp are not CNapps. I was told I was a CNapp and no part of my hair looks like Crazycoil's. I wonder how common her hair type is in the nappy pool. It is so soft and gentle looking.

I seriously doubt a large number of people actually have this hair type when they claim they do. Even the creator of the cnapp term does have hair that looks quite like this, but many people with such tightly coiled hair often manipulate their hair into twist and twist-out so the texture may appear different.

Which styles of hers do you mean?

Some of her more intricate bun styles and braids resemble your hair in terms of its density and coil pattern, but your hair has a more less sheen and slightly more shine (a balance between the two)-whereas her hair has high sheen and no shine.

 

[Kurlee]

The thing that confuses me, don't the numbers correspond to curl size and letters are "sub sections"? The biggest difference to me between 3 and 4 is curl size. There are silky 3's and dull 3's. Silky 4's and dull 4's but if ur curl pattern is very teeny/tiney or coily, its 4a, no curl definition 4b. so to me a cnapp is 4b, no curl pattern.

The link for what a cnapp is, is just 4b hair that is very very dry. Her hair looks like if it was wet with conditioner or had more moisture or even gel, it would wave up and have a little shine.

 

[silvergirl]

The thing that confuses me, don't the numbers correspond to curl size and letters are "sub sections"? The biggest difference to me between 3 and 4 is curl size. There are silky 3's and dull 3's. Silky 4's and dull 4's but if ur curl pattern is very teeny/tiney or coily, its 4a, no curl definition 4b. so to me a cnapp is 4b, no curl pattern.

The link for what a cnapp is, is just 4b hair that is very very dry. Her hair looks like if it was wet with conditioner or had more moisture or even gel, it would wave up and have a little shine.

yup i think hair type is based on curl size rather than silky/dull texture.

there are even type 1's that have dullish hair.

 

[kblc06]

The thing that confuses me, don't the numbers correspond to curl size and letters are "sub sections"? The biggest difference to me between 3 and 4 is curl size. There are silky 3's and dull 3's. Silky 4's and dull 4's but if ur curl pattern is very teeny/tiney or coily, its 4a, no curl definition 4b. so to me a cnapp is 4b, no curl pattern.

The link for what a cnapp is, is just 4b hair that is very very dry. Her hair looks like if it was wet with conditioner or had more moisture or even gel, it would wave up and have a little shine.

But this is what most people don't understand-it will NEVER have shine (no matter what products or techniques)and the coils have no clumping properties AT ALL (meaning the curls can not form cohesively like say silvergirl's hair without extensive manipulation, and even then, it won't look this because the strands can not be consistently stretched to smooth out the individual coils). But that is not to say that individual strands don't have a coil pattern. I've only met one other person (IRL) with hair almost exactly like hers and it was EXTREMELY soft. No amount of straightening or relaxing will change its inherent characteristics .When you add more products or moisturizers it just appears duller and coated, making it appear drier when in fact it's not. To add to this, it is also the type of hair that is very hard to get fully wet-water has a tendency to simply "roll" off the hair so drenching with water and conditioner would have little to no effect in terms of stretching the hair. Her hair has pure sheen (that captures and refracts light at different frequencies on each part of the hair's coil). Very few people have hair that has pure shine and even fewer with pure sheen-it's generally a combination of everything in between.

 

[glamazon386]

But this is what most people don't understand-it will NEVER have shine (no matter what products or techniques)and the coils have no clumping properties AT ALL (meaning the curls can not form cohesively like say silvergirl's hair without extensive manipulation, and even then, it won't look this because the strands can not be consistently stretched to smooth out the individual coils). But that is not to say that individual strands don't have a coil pattern. I've only met one other person (IRL) with hair almost exactly like hers and it was EXTREMELY soft. No amount of straightening or relaxing will change its inherent characteristics .When you add more products or moisturizers it just appears duller and coated, making it appear drier when in fact it's not. To add to this, it is also the type of hair that is very hard to get fully wet-water has a tendency to simply "roll" off the hair so drenching with water and conditioner would have little to no effect in terms of stretching the hair. Her hair has pure sheen (that captures and refracts light at different frequencies on each part of the hair's coil). Very few people have hair that has pure shine and even fewer with pure sheen-it's generally a combination of everything in between.

I would agree with this KLB. I get what you're saying. That's the kind of hair that still stands up and looks like a bush even when it's wet. You can't ssee that it's wet when you're looking at it. My brother's hair was like that when he wore cornrows. He did have a bit of a curl pattern when it was short. Like now if he needs a hair cut you'll see coils in some spots but it isn't defined. It doesn't clump together. Once it grew out it looked like a giant cloud/cottonball. Even when it was wet. Even if he tried to brush it back it still looked like that.

 

[AvaSpeaks]

yup i think hair type is based on curl size rather than silky/dull texture.

there are even type 1's that have dullish hair.

Yes, it's the curls/coils.

 

[Kurlee]

But this is what most people don't understand-it will NEVER have shine (no matter what products or techniques)and the coils have no clumping properties AT ALL (meaning the curls can not form cohesively like say silvergirl's hair without extensive manipulation, and even then, it won't look this because the strands can not be consistently stretched to smooth out the individual coils). But that is not to say that individual strands don't have a coil pattern. I've only met one other person (IRL) with hair almost exactly like hers and it was EXTREMELY soft. No amount of straightening or relaxing will change its inherent characteristics .When you add more products or moisturizers it just appears duller and coated, making it appear drier when in fact it's not. To add to this, it is also the type of hair that is very hard to get fully wet-water has a tendency to simply "roll" off the hair so drenching with water and conditioner would have little to no effect in terms of stretching the hair. Her hair has pure sheen (that captures and refracts light at different frequencies on each part of the hair's coil). Very few people have hair that has pure shine and even fewer with pure sheen-it's generally a combination of everything in between.

I understand what ur saying, but her hair looks VERY dry, and i didn;t mean shine, I meant sheen. I could see in some of the pics she did have a wavyish curl pattern in some places, but her hair looked so dryyy. Many people if they put nothing or close to nothing it will be fuzzy and undefined. Her hair could look totally different, it appears, if she put something in it. Anyways, I would consider her 4b. I think the whole C-Napp thing seperates us even more as if to say that hair is the ultimate "nappiness" (whatever that means). 4a, small teeny curls and 4b no definite curl pattern. No need to get into more division 4c, 5a, c-napp, its getting extreme and extra now.

 

[Guapa1]

But this is what most people don't understand-it will NEVER have shine (no matter what products or techniques)and the coils have no clumping properties AT ALL (meaning the curls can not form cohesively like say silvergirl's hair without extensive manipulation, and even then, it won't look this because the strands can not be consistently stretched to smooth out the individual coils). But that is not to say that individual strands don't have a coil pattern. I've only met one other person (IRL) with hair almost exactly like hers and it was EXTREMELY soft. No amount of straightening or relaxing will change its inherent characteristics .When you add more products or moisturizers it just appears duller and coated, making it appear drier when in fact it's not. To add to this, it is also the type of hair that is very hard to get fully wet-water has a tendency to simply "roll" off the hair so drenching with water and conditioner would have little to no effect in terms of stretching the hair. Her hair has pure sheen (that captures and refracts light at different frequencies on each part of the hair's coil). Very few people have hair that has pure shine and even fewer with pure sheen-it's generally a combination of everything in between.

That's right, this reminds me of a convo I had with my gran last week. (Imagine a Jamaican accent)

Mama: G1, you need fe put some grease in yu hair. It look dry and natty.
G1: Mama, I have got grease in my hair, in fact I done it yesterday.
Mama: Well you not using enough, you mus' put plenty plenty mek it shine.
G1: *sigh* My hair DOESN'T shine and it has plenty oil on it, look touch it
Mama(after touching): Ooohh, it's soft, but it look like it woulda cut through my hand like wire!

I have this convo almost every week.

I understand what ur saying, but her hair looks VERY dry, and i didn;t mean shine, I meant sheen. I could see in some of the pics she did have a wavyish curl pattern in some places, but her hair looked so dryyy. Many people if they put nothing or close to nothing it will be fuzzy and undefined. Her hair could look totally different, it appears, if she put something in it. Anyways, I would consider her 4b. I think the whole C-Napp thing seperates us even more as if to say that hair is the ultimate "nappiness" (whatever that means). 4a, small teeny curls and 4b no definite curl pattern. No need to get into more division 4c, 5a, c-napp, its getting extreme and extra now.

I don;t think anyone said it's the ultimate nappiness, that is peoples assumption. I don't think it's extra at all. It feels good to look at other albums and know that my hair is like someone elses. I used to look at a lot of albums and think I'm doing something wrong because my hair didn't behave like a lot of others 4bs.

 

[AfroKink]

So am I a 4b or a c-napp (if you can tell from the pics)

http://public.fotki.com/missalyssa/hair-tings/sl-challenge/decpc2b.html

pw: faith

Lys

 

[Kurlee]

4b........................^^^

 

[sonce]

So am I a 4b or a c-napp (if you can tell from the pics)

http://public.fotki.com/missalyssa/hair-tings/sl-challenge/decpc2b.html

pw: faith

Lys

It has that dry look like crazycoil's hair. Is your hair soft and moisturized with product in it in this pic? If so, then I think you're a CNapp. If not, then you're a 4b but your hair needs to be moisturized.

 

[kblc06]

I would agree with this KLB. I get what you're saying. That's the kind of hair that still stands up and looks like a bush even when it's wet. You can't ssee that it's wet when you're looking at it. My brother's hair was like that when he wore cornrows. He did have a bit of a curl pattern when it was short. Like now if he needs a hair cut you'll see coils in some spots but it isn't defined. It doesn't clump together. Once it grew out it looked like a giant cloud/cottonball. Even when it was wet. Even if he tried to brush it back it still looked like that.

Thank you! I'm glad I'm not the only one who knows what I'm talking about ( I was starting to feel a little crazy for a minute)

Kurlee:

The dry look that I was describing is an intrinsic property of her hair, even though her hair isn't dry-what you are seeing is extremely high sheen (the light that 's refracted off & in between her coils is what is giving that appearance). The difference between high sheen and shine is that with straight hair, as the the light hits the rounded, compact cuticles of the hair strands, the angle at which the light hits is completely deflected. In the case of crazycoil's hair, when light hits her hair strands, deflects completely at certain outer points of the coil but refracts and remait entrapped within the inner points of the coils.

The best way to describe this is by using a mirror example discussed in my physics course-when light shines directly upon a mirror, it deflects almost complete from its smooth surface-as is the case with straight hair. But say you have a room with a series of mirrors surrounding it at different angles - if light hits one particular mirror, it may be deflected off that mirror to another one at a different angle. In turn, this mirror may deflect that light towards the floor or at another medium that does not re-deflect the light. The sharper the angle or curve, the more light is deflected and may be absorbed through different mediums and the more light may be lost due to the lack of refraction-this a similar property in the way c-napp hair behaves, the light remains trapped within the sheer density of the hair. Thus when you go out into the sunlight or a well lit area to take a picture (like in cc's album) , this property becomes very apparent

The coils will not clump together and smooth out so it will never look just regular moisturized 4b hair (even if it is on the more dull side). I too use to think that it was sort of divisive, but that is because I didn't know hair of this extreme existed. The same methods and products will simply not work on this type of hair (I know because I tried using methods that work on my aunts' dull natural 4b hair on a friend w/natural c-napp hair and it just didn't work-AT ALL). The appearance is very much the same, but it behaves vastly different.

*Sorry for the long post -I was just attempting to convey how this type of hair behaves so you would see the point I was making

 

[cocoberry10]

We have the same type hair- on some parts i have s coils- some parts z and in some areas it just shrinks up drinks conditioner, burps and without product or a good twist set look like Steve Harveys hair. The typing is based on what the majority of your hair is. For me its a 4b. But I call my hair 4 alphabet- cause different strands of my hair do different things at the same time. HTH

See, to me, looking at this picture, you are more of a 3c, but I could be wrong!

 

[DarkVictory]

Deleted post

 

[Kurlee]

Thank you! I'm glad I'm not the only one who knows what I'm talking about ( I was starting to feel a little crazy for a minute)

Kurlee:

The dry look that I was describing is an intrinsic property of her hair, even though her hair isn't dry-what you are seeing is extremely high sheen (the light that 's refracted off & in between her coils is what is giving that appearance). The difference between high sheen and shine is that with straight hair, as the the light hits the rounded, compact cuticles of the hair strands, the angle at which the light hits is completely deflected. In the case of crazycoil's hair, when light hits her hair strands, deflects completely at certain outer points of the coil but refracts and remait entrapped within the inner points of the coils.

The best way to describe this is by using a mirror example discussed in my physics course-when light shines directly upon a mirror, it deflects almost complete from its smooth surface-as is the case with straight hair. But say you have a room with a series of mirrors surrounding it at different angles - if light hits one particular mirror, it may be deflected off that mirror to another one at a different angle. In turn, this mirror may deflect that light towards the floor or at another medium that does not re-deflect the light. The sharper the angle or curve, the more light is deflected and may be absorbed through different mediums and the more light may be lost due to the lack of refraction-this a similar property in the way c-napp hair behaves, the light remains trapped within the sheer density of the hair. Thus when you go out into the sunlight or a well lit area to take a picture (like in cc's album) , this property becomes very apparent

The coils will not clump together and smooth out so it will never look just regular moisturized 4b hair (even if it is on the more dull side). I too use to think that it was sort of divisive, but that is because I didn't know hair of this extreme existed. The same methods and products will simply not work on this type of hair (I know because I tried using methods that work on my aunts' dull natural 4b hair on a friend w/natural c-napp hair and it just didn't work-AT ALL). The appearance is very much the same, but it behaves vastly different.

*Sorry for the long post -I was just attempting to convey how this type of hair behaves so you would see the point I was making

Thnaks, I'm starting to get it now. So what does work on this type of hair? is it more fragile than 4a 4b hair?

 

[kblc06]

I would agree with this KLB. I get what you're saying. That's the kind of hair that still stands up and looks like a bush even when it's wet. You can't ssee that it's wet when you're looking at it. My brother's hair was like that when he wore cornrows. He did have a bit of a curl pattern when it was short. Like now if he needs a hair cut you'll see coils in some spots but it isn't defined. It doesn't clump together. Once it grew out it looked like a giant cloud/cottonball. Even when it was wet. Even if he tried to brush it back it still looked like that.

Thnaks, I'm starting to get it now. So what does work on this type of hair? is it more fragile than 4a 4b hair?

I would say that it probably is the most fragile of hair types because at every point it coils is a weak point, and almost every hair strand is inconsistently coiled, but I've seen it grow extremely long with very low manipulation (it's just that there's so much shrinkage, growth isn't noticeable until you stretch it). On my friends hair co-washing w/natural conditioners, glycerin-based and humectant products, NOT using combs-at all, unless its a inch section of hair. She twists or braids her hair 1x every 2-4 weeks, wears a twist/braid out, repeat. She almost never uses shampoo or wears it completely unstretched and her styles last foreva. Very light oils also seem to work (jojoba, grapeseed, etc), but heavy gels, greases, pomades can seriously mat her hair and cause it to loc up. Her hair is a close to apl, but if left to it's own devices, it shrinks up toa 1-2 inch twa

 

[scarcity21]

I would say that it probably is the most fragile of hair types because at every point it coils is a weak point, and almost every hair strand is inconsistently coiled, but I've seen it grow extremely long with very low manipulation (it's just that there's so much shrinkage, growth isn't noticeable until you stretch it). On my friends hair co-washing w/natural conditioners, glycerin-based and humectant products, NOT using combs-at all, unless its a inch section of hair. She twists or braids her hair 1x every 2-4 weeks, wears a twist/braid out, repeat. She almost never uses shampoo or wears it completely unstretched and her styles last foreva. Very light oils also seem to work (jojoba, grapeseed, etc), but heavy gels, greases, pomades can seriously mat her hair and cause it to loc up. Her hair is a close to apl, but if left to it's own devices, it shrinks up toa 1-2 inch twa

You know exactly what ur talking about kblc I agree with all ur posts in this thread

 

[Kurlee]

I would say that it probably is the most fragile of hair types because at every point it coils is a weak point, and almost every hair strand is inconsistently coiled, but I've seen it grow extremely long with very low manipulation (it's just that there's so much shrinkage, growth isn't noticeable until you stretch it). On my friends hair co-washing w/natural conditioners, glycerin-based and humectant products, NOT using combs-at all, unless its a inch section of hair. She twists or braids her hair 1x every 2-4 weeks, wears a twist/braid out, repeat. She almost never uses shampoo or wears it completely unstretched and her styles last foreva. Very light oils also seem to work (jojoba, grapeseed, etc), but heavy gels, greases, pomades can seriously mat her hair and cause it to loc up. Her hair is a close to apl, but if left to it's own devices, it shrinks up toa 1-2 inch twa

jesus, and i thought i had shrinkage

 

[MadisonK]

I personally feel it is/was divisive for the forum. I really do. More power to everyone there ( my little sister is a member).

4b and Cnapp are one and the same.

Bre~Bre now you know anything said on one board is seen on another. Its the symbiotic relationship between BHM, LHCF and NP.* the BIG 3*

Hi, what are the other 2 boards?
thanks.

 

[AvaSpeaks]

See I think that's another problem we have, the mislabeling of our hair.

I wish I could really break it down, but I know I would be flamed But I think we deep down know what true Type 4's and Type 3's look like. Some of us claiming "I'm Type 4b" or "I'm Type 4c" and they are clearly something else.

It's like I see posters here claiming they are a much kinkier texture than they really are. Or posters claiming they are a much looser texture than they maybe. It goes back and forth. But the pics don't lie. Even if we don't use Andre's system or LOIS, some textures really do speak for themselves, regardless of how what we try to claim it is.

 

[naijamerican]

I don;t think anyone said it's the ultimate nappiness, that is peoples assumption. I don't think it's extra at all. It feels good to look at other albums and know that my hair is like someone elses. I used to look at a lot of albums and think I'm doing something wrong because my hair didn't behave like a lot of others 4bs.

This is how I feel, too. I would look at other people with "4B" hair and feel very discouraged. It took me a long time to understand that even though every 4B is different, peopel were either misclassifying their hair or I was not really a 4B and I was really a 8Z squared. But when I looked at the CNapp pictures (I have an account there now, same screen name as here) I realized that I was not alone. I don't remember who said that C-Napp is rare, but in my experience it seems to be true. Even in my family no one has hair like mine.

 

[Kurlee]

See I think that's another problem we have, the mislabeling of our hair.

I wish I could really break it down, but I know I would be flamed But I think we deep down know what true Type 4's and Type 3's look like. Some of us claiming "I'm Type 4b" or "I'm Type 4c" and they are clearly something else.

It's like I see posters here claiming they are a much kinkier texture than they really are. Or posters claiming they are a much looser texture than they maybe. It goes back and forth. But the pics don't lie. Even if we don't use Andre's system or LOIS, some textures really do speak for themselves, regardless of how what we try to claim it is.

 

[discodumpling]

Hair typing is subjective. Here we are getting our panties in a bunch because some MAN has decided that black women have TWO types of hair. Why do folks always try to define that which has no definition?

KBLC06...ur right on the money with the tips for the care of ultra nappy hair....which I was sure I had until I read this thread!

9 months natural & I have no idea where I fall on Andre's scale. Not for lack of trying; but for my own peace of mind I just call it nappy

 

[AvaSpeaks]

That's why I stopped trying to figure out what my hair type is. I know what it does and how it looks, whether it be dry or wet. All I know is that I am not a Type 1 or a C-Napp or 4b, that much I know.

Again, I find it so funny for years we were scared of our hair because it was "too nappy". Now I noticed on some of these sites, including this one, that some of us are not "nappy enough"