4a, 4b vs. C-Napp Hair: What's the Difference?

[kimmy89]

I gave up on typing a long time ago, when i decide that I'm a 4b, i see curls and coils a so i don't bother any more.

 

[JinaRicci]

^^ me too! just too much going on to fit w/in any type- way too confusing.

 

[gmw]

I claim 4a--z still because that is the majority of my hair texture.

I will say that the size of my curl/coil has nothing to do with the product I use if I compare it to other 4's regimens.

My regimen is about moisture MOISTURE and little protein from time to time, all in the non heavy product category. I can get by with some shea butter, but it has to be whipped with something else or it will sit on my hair, and make my scalp break out!

Castor sits in my hair, does nothing for me.

I rarely use heat, as my hair is super fragile, and responds to moisture. WNG are good for me as long as I detangle in the shower w/cheapie conditioner daily, if I am wearing them daily.

Here is my hair wet with no product:

 

[PurAngl1]

Well, you guys know, the "cnapp" designation was created not too long ago. So if you want to know what it is, go to the creators. Go to the blog Nappturology, or the forum CNappyMeNow. It doesn't make any sense to me for a group of people to come up with a name for their hair and then have other people come in and say "no, your hair is not that category". How could it not be? The term was made precisely to describe their hair, so if anybody is in that category, they are. The defining characteristic of cnapp hair, as I understand it (and I chat a lot on the cnapp forum), is that it doesn't clump into curls. Sometimes it does clump into . . . clumps (not curls). Sometimes (usually, seems to me), the individual strands have curls and coils. But the whole package, even with wet or product, looks like cotton fluff and not like curls. And so cnapps save their money when it comes to buying products that "define your curls" cuz there aren't any to define. Any other characteristic is secondary and may vary among individuals. Based on this definition, I think cnapp hair is very common.

Now that whole 4a and 4b thing, I'm still a little confused over it.

You are on point with this. I just discovered that I am a C-Napp, which explains alot. Before I categorized my hair as 4b, but on the inside I would say 4z. Now I know why most products don't work well. I will have to do some research on this hair type and find out what products work for me.

 

[anon123]

ok here is the JCoily oversimplified guide to type 4 hair.

4A hair (thin/fine) - looks like a well defined twistout unmanipulated. This hair clumps into a coil or spring. More times than not people mistake it as 3c because of the definition but the key difference between type 3C and 4A is natural shine. 3 shines without camera flash 4 does not.

4A hair (medium to thick) - still looks like a twistout just fluffier and the thicker it is the less likely it is to clump into defined coils as 4a-thin.

4B hair (thin/fine) - looks like a new braidout unmanipulated. This hair has sharp bends and instead of the S of a coil it looks like the number 5. The thinner/finer the hair the better chance there is of seeing definition that the beds create.

4B hair (medium to thick) - looks like a cloud. The thickness is what creates the illusion that there is no definition.

Traditional wisdom holds that 4B doesn't have definition. My theory is that 4B hair has a pattern, but between the sharp bends and shrinkage it's difficult to ever really make out a coil pattern unless the hair is pulled taut (puff).

C-Napps is just too inconsistant - I see alot of folk claiming C-Napp and I go into their fotkis and see coils (including the person who devised the system).

All of this is my opinion and not written in stone.

This makes a lot of sense, the difference in appearance based on density.

 

[Hairsofab]

I actually don't think c-napp hair is rare. I just don't think they keep albums, because they think people are not interested in their hair, plus when they get typed wrong and nothing works, they give up. Let's be real here, it's only on hair boards that people compliment this type of hair.

I agree. Also, I think it is rare for cnapp's to actually keep their hair in a loose natural state. I would describe my hair as majority cnapp. And I've transitioned 3 times. After a couple of years, I usually go back to relaxing. I imagine others are the same way. I don't know how rare cnapp hair is though since not many stay natural. I've only seen a couple of people on lhcf that I would consider a hair twin. In real life, I've never seen another natural with my hair type. When I first started here, I tried Kinky curly and all these type of things, thinking it would give me a curl but they did nothing. NOTHING. Just made my hair greasy. I remember reading a blog entry here by someone (I forget who), who said she couldn't go natural because she had "slave hair", super dense cottony hair I guess it what she meant, and no one understood. I imagine a lot of people with cnapp hair have this feeling.

 

[Junebug D]

Cocoberry:

I do think there is a distinct difference between regular 4a, 4b hair and cnapp hair:

For instance, bmorefly (now known as glamazon ) has a hair type that almost consistently 4a.

The closest person I can think of with true 4b type hair would probably be md-ocr, mscocoface, or either nappity 4b (but her hair is not consistent throughout)

True cnapp hair would be the following:

http://www.crazycoil.sili.net/howtodetail.php

The difference from the above mentioned people if you'll notice is that her hair has almost completely refracted light, making it appear grayish in some of her pics. It is DENSELY packed and has over 90% shrinkage. It also a very cottony appearance (hence the c in cnapp). When well cared for, it is extremely soft. In mi opinion, this is the absolute BEST type of locing hair (after doing some of my friends), because its natural tendency is to do so (again note the appearance of crazycoils loose hair). Its extremely fragile and is more easily manipulated with fingers than with combs. Some of the styles and looks she can create with her loose hair simply can not be duplicated successfully on regular type 4 hair-if so I have yet to see it (but sonce's recent hair pics/braids does resemble this in terms of its density, but not in its complete refraction of light)

I don't think this type of hair is just a distinct variation of 4b because honestly, I rarely ever see people with this hair type (it's texture is distinct even when relaxed). A lot of people claim to have that nappiest of naps, 10z type hair just because their hair is dense or super thick, but I still don't think it equates to cnapp hair in terms of all its properties (density, coil pattern, curl clumpings, high sheen, low porosity, etc).

I remember crazycoil, she was very inspirational. I see people with her hair type every blue moon. This was her hair up close:

And styled:

(Will remove upon request!)

-----------------------------------------
I have no idea whether or not I am a C-Napp. Someone from there said I am a true c-napp though. I just always claim 4b. I had never seen so many people claim 4a/4b until I started reading here, to be honest. Elsewhere people just picked whichever was dominant because it was assumed that most of us have multiple textures anyway.

My hair, air-dried, no product, no manipulation:

It forms clumps, no visible curl pattern. The strands are verrry tightly coiled that they form "O" shapes. I always hear about "S" and "Z" shapes, but I have straight "O" shapes.

A fresh BC, the hair is tightly coiled into small "O" shapes, making my scalp extra-visible:

Wet hair, post conditioning (I have some strands that are heat-stretched now):

 

[kurlybella]

i just gave up on this mess. i'm 4. i'm nappy, kinky and curly. that's all i know. and this 4c stuff...what's that all about? i don't care anymore. i really, really don't. it just seems so useless to me now and laughable at how as a newbie to healthy hair care i cared so much. not anymore.

 

[sunshinelady]

I think what distinguishes a c-napp is dryness. The hair does not hold moisture nor soften with oil.

 

[sunshinelady]

I just want to clarify that having your hair grow in locks does not mean that it has coils. Some hair just grows in sections.

 

[Nonie]

I dunno CNAPP is just manipulated 4B hair as far as I'm concerned. My coily/curly/nappy/spirally 4B hair seen here without products and unmanipulated looks like the pics below when manipulated and fits that entire description given for CNapp:

4B hair is hardly ever left alone long enough to form coils and because the coils are so small that they'd lead to tangled hair that cannot be redeemed plus because the coils are so small when they form, they hardly stand out, so what's the point?

4A hair has bigger coils so a WNG looks all spirally. But unless you're really close up to 4B hair, you cannot see the spirals and when 4B hair dries, it shrinks back into itself forming a compact mass instead of dangly bouncy coils. This WNG look seen here on a few strands close up, looks like the pic below on more hair from afar and when all the hair shrinks back on itself*.

Someone once mentioned seeing coils in her hair that she'd never seen before due to moisturizing her hair better. I will admit that until I started DCing (thanks Cathy Howse) I had never seen my hair look any different from how it looks in these pics:

Excuse the bald patch:

Now that I have learned the right way to add moisture to hair, my hair seems to have definition all through if I don't manipulate it:

This is clearly seen on a few strands:

And while not as clear when the hair is all compact, one cannot deny the small coils all uniform throughout my hair (although this is hair that has been combed wet):

But I would never leave it like that. I'd not be able to run a comb through it if I left it like that. So any time you see my hair, you will probably see it in CNapp mode because I have to ensure I keep it from getting tangled by combing it, stretching it, manipulating the coils to keep them from wrapping around each other and knotting. And it is because I am not too concerned with having "definition" that I rarely have knots coz I keep my hair braided.

This was a braid out:

This was just my hair washed, conditioned and air-dried in a braid and then undone when dry. No coils whatsoever. Definitely CNapp definition would fit it:

Another "interesting" photo of my hair

So my definition is as follows:

4A hair has bigger coils than a pen springs. WNGs really stand out on it and mimic what type 3C hair looks like with WNGs, only with smaller coils.

4B hair has tiny coils smaller than pen springs. It's hair that even if not manipulated will not really show a WNG where spirals are loose and bouncy. A WNG on 4B hair will either lead to chunks that seem to coil at the ends and the bases just look like these indefinite chunks of hair. Or if you comb it while wet and then leave it ie WNG, like I would coz I just don't take risk with tangles, it shinks down to a lumpy afro looking like a compact rug you'd find outside a door with the words welcome.

Both 4A and 4B hair can be combed into a perfect afro. 4B looking like a microphone with no distinct texture appearance but all smooth kinda like a cloud as seen in this puff*:

4A hair looks coily kinda like the Cozy phony puff that I use sometimes:

I don't know if you can see the difference in texture between the two fros. My real one (first one) seems to have no coil definition. The coils are too small to see except close up. 4A phony puff on the other hand is clearly made of curls albeit smaller than those on type 3 hair and looks fluffy.

Finally, CNapp is a STATE that 4B hair goes into after it has been combed and braided, and as a lot of people do, brushed. The manipulation temporarily alters the natural coily shape of the strands so they appear to have no shape at all. Do that more often and you may never see the coils your hair has.

Hair out of braids in CNapp mode:

Same CNapp hair above just detangled:

Hair just taken out of those "interesting" coils and detangled with fingers but not combed:

Hair just after braids:

BTW, except for the photo of the WNG puff (chunky puff) where I had applied lots of SCurl Gel coz a 4A-er told me it'd stretch my hair and cause fluffy, bouncy coils (Didn't work; shrunk into a compact mass instead), and the photo of the microphone puff with twist in the front where I uses S Curl spray my staple moisturizer when styling my hair to wear out, my hair in all the other photos has no products. (Oh except for that "interesting" do where a stylist put Paul Mitchell before she went to town on my head. )

No one's hair grows out of their head with no definition. Look at anyone who grows hair from a bald head and you will see a pattern. Some people may have different textures and hence patterns but the pattern is uniform and orderly and repeated. The only people who have CNapp hair are people whose hair is longer than a centimeter and are manipulating it a lot.

My mom's CNapp wanna-be hair seen here after a good conditioning and moisturizing revealed coils and curls she never knew she had:

 

[DarkandLovely]

Thanks Nonie for the breakdown w/ pics..I never really understood the difference between 4a and 4b hair but now I think I get it

 

[andromeda]

That's right, this reminds me of a convo I had with my gran last week. (Imagine a Jamaican accent)

Mama: G1, you need fe put some grease in yu hair. It look dry and natty.
G1: Mama, I have got grease in my hair, in fact I done it yesterday.
Mama: Well you not using enough, you mus' put plenty plenty mek it shine.
G1: *sigh* My hair DOESN'T shine and it has plenty oil on it, look touch it
Mama(after touching): Ooohh, it's soft, but it look like it woulda cut through my hand like wire!

I have this convo almost every week.

This thread is among the most helpful I've come across. I find typiing confusing (as evidenced in my siggy) but I think having generally accepted hair categories based on curl size, pattern, uniformity, texture, density, porosity, sheen/shine is very helpful in figuring out what works best for one's hair. Even if we can't arrive at a consensus, the discussion that's taken place in this thread has really opened my eyes to the different characteristics of my hair that I should be taking note of.

I'm tempted to say I'm a 4b/z but that's based on my hair pre-relaxer (and a few times when I've let it grow out natural under weaves) but back then a boar-bristle brush was my best friend, so who knows? I just vividly remember having no waves, let alone curl definition when my hair was styled in fat twists, braids and buns as a child...

 

[anon123]

technically, the difference between 4a and 4b is not coil size, though. by the original definition, the difference is in the patterning of the hair, not in the size of the coil. isn't this so? (i'm willing to be corrected) Naturally Curly's addendum adds that the difference between 4a and 4b is :

4a hair has a clearly visible curl and wave pattern that ranges from pen size curls to pen spring size coils. 4b hair has a tighter wave pattern and kinks of various size.

 

[ladylibra]

Way off topic but Nonie, I love your hair!

 

[PikiNiki]

This has to be the most informative breakdown (I've seen anyway) on 4a/b hair. Now I can actually say with certainty that my 2 yr old DD is 4a. Thanks for taking the time for posting one of such detail and visuals, Nonie.

 

[PerplexingComplex]

Thank you, shan & noni for officially confusing me about my hair type . My hair looks like the close up of crazycoil's hair, shan's wet hair, noni's dry hair (after being combed wet, then unmanipulated) & the phony puff when combed out.

 

[LilBrownied]

I actually don't think c-napp hair is rare. I just don't think they keep albums, because they think people are not interested in their hair, plus when they get typed wrong and nothing works, they give up. Let's be real here, it's only on hair boards that people compliment this type of hair.

For real. erplexed

 

[Nonie]

technically, the difference between 4a and 4b is not coil size, though. by the original definition, the difference is in the patterning of the hair, not in the size of the coil. isn't this so? (i'm willing to be corrected) Naturally Curly's addendum adds that the difference between 4a and 4b is :

Quote:
4a hair has a clearly visible curl and wave pattern that ranges from pen size curls to pen spring size coils. 4b hair has a tighter wave pattern and kinks of various size.

Size of curl is the difference between 4A and 4B. And Naturally Curly's addendum just confirms that. Let's examine those definitions you quoted closely.

4a - clearly visible curl and wave pattern that ranges from pen size curls to pen spring size coils

4b - tighter wave pattern and kinks of various size
​

Definition of "kink":

• Merriam Webster: "a short tight twist or curl caused by a doubling or winding of something upon itself"
• Wordsmyth English Dictionary-Thesaurus: "a short, tight curl or twist, as in a wire, hose, or hair."
• Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English: "a twist in something that is normally straight"
• Encarta Dictionary: "tight coil: a tight twist or coil in an otherwise straight section of something such as rope, string, or wire"

OK, so a kink is a tight twist, coil or a curl. Manipulated 4B hair has tight bends and twists and curls all at once. Unmanipulated 4B has tight curls/coils. Put another way, unmanipulated 4B is is kinky.

The word kinky I just used there is clearly from the word kink, so a good guess would be that kinky means "that which is made of tight twists, coils or curls" but just to make sure, why not look up the definition of "kinky":

• Merriam Webster: "closely twisted or curled"
• Wordsmyth English Dictionary-Thesaurus: "having tight twists or curls, as hair"
• Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English: "kinky hair has a lot of small curves"
• Encarta Dictionary: "tightly coiled: full of tight coils"

So paraphrasing Naturally Curly's definition without changing the meaning:

4a hair has a clearly visible curl and wave pattern that ranges from pen size curls to pen spring size coils.

4b hair has a tighter wave pattern and tight curls/coils/twists of various size.
​

That's exactly my understanding too. The only difference between 4A and 4B is size and therefore visibility of curl/coil:

• 4A curls/coils are larger and therefore clearly visible even from afar (as seen in my phony puff) which is why WNGs stand out well in 4A hair.
• 4B curls/coils on the other hand are tighter (smaller) and not as clearly visible (as seen in the puff of my own hair) which is why WNGs do not show up the same way as they do in 4A hair.

ETA: Mwedzi, I forgot to comment on point you made that "pattern" is what differentiates 4A and 4B. Why that definition is wrong is because the definition assigned to 4B hair "no coil/curl pattern" or whatever it is that Andre said, only applies to manipulated 4B hair. No hair grows out of anyone's head all willy nilly without taking some form of uniform pattern that repeats itself throughout its length, whether it's a wave, curl, coil, or just straight.

 

[doll-baby]

When I read the description of what a c-napp is I identified with that. I think the 4b category is too limiting. 4a still has curls and coils, 4b tight coils, but I don't have that so I never really considered my hair to be a 4b, but because that was the last category for hair typing I begrudgingly claimed it while seeing no similarities between my hair and the ladies with 4b type hair. What ever you want to call my hair type I just want to be able to grow/ retain and grow and retain some more

 

[Nonie]

This thread is among the most helpful I've come across. I find typiing confusing (as evidenced in my siggy) but I think having generally accepted hair categories based on curl size, pattern, uniformity, texture, density, porosity, sheen/shine is very helpful in figuring out what works best for one's hair. Even if we can't arrive at a consensus, the discussion that's taken place in this thread has really opened my eyes to the different characteristics of my hair that I should be taking note of.

I'm tempted to say I'm a 4b/z but that's based on my hair pre-relaxer (and a few times when I've let it grow out natural under weaves) but back then a boar-bristle brush was my best friend, so who knows? I just vividly remember having no waves, let alone curl definition when my hair was styled in fat twists, braids and buns as a child...

I bet my bottom dollar that brushing is what hid your true texture from you.

 

[anon123]

ETA: Mwedzi, I forgot to comment on point you made that "pattern" is what differentiates 4A and 4B. Why that definition is wrong is because the definition assigned to 4B hair "no coil/curl pattern" or whatever it is that Andre said, only applies to manipulated 4B hair. No hair grows out of anyone's head all willy nilly without taking some form of uniform pattern that repeats itself throughout its length, whether it's a wave, curl, coil, or just straight.

In that case, we are making up our own definition of 4b. If that's what folks want to do, okay, but the original definition is not that. The addendum was added by readers. I can accept it because it does make sense.

I see plenty of bends (i.e. "kinks") in the closeup of your lovely unmanipulated hair, just like I see them in mine every time I would wash. At some point, what is relevant is how the hair behaves. If my hair grows in perfect coils, I have never seen it other than 2 regular dime-sized patches on my head. If I have never seen it (and that includes not manipulating it or trying to manipulate it), then functionally it is true that that is not how my hair is. For all real purposes, perfect coils are not how this hair type is, so why define a classification based on something no one ever sees and which is not realized on anyone's actual head?

 

[Nonie]

In that case, we are making up our own definition of 4b. If that's what folks want to do, okay, but the original definition is not that. The addendum was added by readers. I can accept it because it does make sense.

I see plenty of bends (i.e. "kinks") in the closeup of your lovely unmanipulated hair, just like I see them in mine every time I would wash. At some point, what is relevant is how the hair behaves. If my hair grows in perfect coils, I have never seen it other than 2 regular dime-sized patches on my head. If I have never seen it (and that includes not manipulating it or trying to manipulate it), then functionally it is true that that is not how my hair is. For all real purposes, perfect coils are not how this hair type is, so why define a classification based on something no one ever sees and which is not realized on anyone's actual head?

OK, once again, I do not disagree that 4B hair is made of kinks. It bends and twists and curls and coils. But guess what, so does 4A.

Nadia Turner's hair is the epitome of 4A hair:

And just as you say of your hair, Nadia's has defined coils in some parts and not in others. But there's a circular structure to the strands whether they bend or not. Like a phone coil, the strands can have a bend that isn't spirally but just coz a phone coil might bend awkwardly in one spot that doesn't take away the fact that the general shape of the phone coil is spirally/curly. Likewise no one questions whether Nadia's hair is curly even though in some parts it seems to have no pattern because the hairs are all separated and mixed together. It clearly is as Andre described it:"tightly coiled hair that, when stretched, has an "S" pattern, much like curly hair."

Andre's definition of 4B hair IMO was based on how he saw our hair not from how it's truly structured. Methinks after the 400 years without a comb, people with 4B hair couldn't wait to comb their hair. If it wasn't combed into an afro, it was brushed back with a wooden brush. So it either looked like my afro puff :

Or it looked somewhat like this

So the only way he could think to describe it was "hair which has a "Z" pattern, less of a defined curl pattern (instead of curling or coiling, the hair bends in sharp angles like the letter "Z"). As I've shown you all before the only time hair gets corners that might be called Z's is after it's been braided. This is a characteristic that I don't thick occurs in other hair types but 4's.

Seriously Andre can't have really believed anyone's hair grew out of their heads in Z shapes.

Until 2003 or 2004, I would've sworn my hair was made of Z's. I did so much to it. I combed it dry. I applied so many things to it and fought it to make it succumb to my styling desires. Instead of just allowing my hair to reveal itself to me, I wrestled with it to make it do my bidding.

It wasn't until one day when I suspected that CON shampoo was coating my hair and leaving it dull and switched to another (L'Anza?) and that baking soda made my hair rough and so conditioned over and over with some moisturizing conditioner and then ACV rinsed,that I beheld the most beautiful hair ever! First of all, my hair had a sheen I'd never seen before. Secondly my hair had a softness that was so foreign to me. And as I looked at my hair in the mirror, hardly able to take my eyes off it, I noticed something else: my hair was made of tiny curls that looked like pen springs. I'd seen that description on the forum here but had never understood it. Not until that day.

These were the twists I had just washed the day I saw my hair in a new light:

And here is a close-up of how my twists looked:

These photos were taken in the fall of 2004.

Now before you tell me that the twists caused the spirals to happen, let me assure you that this wasn't the first time I'd washed my hair in twists. But in the past, the ends would just look frayed. It's as if I had finally got my hair to its optimum pH. I will have to see if there is anyway to determine if I had ever ACV rinsed my hair before this. Another thing I just found out is that I was using a spritz of glycerin, ACV, distilled water and EOs to keep my hair "moisturized". So I guess you could say that may have had something to do with it.

But years later, when I don't even use a spritz, my hair hasn't changed its characteristics as discovered that day in 2004. I'm going to undo a section of my hair (I'm in braids) and wash it. Then I'll take pics of it dripping wet unmanipulated (no products). I'll let it dry without manipulating it and take another pic (no products) and then I will apply moisturizer and take a pic of what it looks like. I've taken pics before of my hair at the side of my head, at the front, at the back so I'll pick a section at the crown and do this experiment. Since I've never really paid attention to how it looks with product, I'm curious to see what happens when I apply product... :scratchch

BB in a few.

OK, here are pics of my hair as umanipulated as possible without letting it turn into big ol' knot.

After washing my hair and conditioning then rinsing out, I left it dripping wet (I didn't ACV rinse to save time). Notice how loving my strands are (awww) getting all cuddly and cozy with each other

I had to keep tilting my head every few minutes so the hair stays as separated as possible and would take the pics in that position so the hair could be visible and not camouflaged by my big 'ead Here's the unmanipulated hair no products dry:

And then I applied S Curl to see what difference that makes. I smoothed it from base to ends so there was some manipulating but not as much as a comb would:

I'd get tired of leaning and trying to get a clear pic so I would straight up every now and then and also took pics of my head upright:

To get perspective of which part of my head you are looking at, I took these two pics:

And so I still maintain my stand that my 4B hair behaves just like 4A hair but the coils are so much smaller than those of 4A that they cannot be seen from afar the way 4A coils can. I think the addendum from the members of Naturally Curly was a very good observation and a definite improvement of Andre's weird definition of 4B. And as I pointed out, this very insightful addendum agrees with me that both 4A and 4B are made of wave patterns and tight curls/coils (also known as kinks), but those of 4A are pen size and clearly visible--something that isn't true of 4B which are teeny in varying sizes (I think you once found a coil in your hair the size of the D in the word DIME on the coin itself and for you to point it out, I'm guessing it was smaller than you'd ever seen before?). And I further showed using photos that 4A hair does have bends (which are what you call kinks, while for me the word encompasses curls and twists and coils as well) in addition to having curls and coils just like my 4B hair does.

 

[Nonie]

I remember crazycoil, she was very inspirational. I see people with her hair type every blue moon. This was her hair up close:

And styled:

(Will remove upon request!)

Crazycoil's hair behaves exactly as I expect 4B hair to behave. When at rest and not styled, it is clearly made of curls/coils/spirals/bends. When styled it takes on an appearance of what folks call CNapps. My hair does the same thing. I think we might be twins.

ETA: I think the best definition for 4B hair would be to keep the NC addendum but add to it that "when styled, 4B hair has an appearance of CNapps" and then just post photos of CNapps coz I think CNapp hair is pretty self-explanatory.

 

[scarcity21]

^^^^ without quoting ur pics and all, Nonie I just love the way u break it down....we are definitely hair twins

 

[AfroKink]

Crazycoil's hair behaves exactly as I expect 4B hair to behave. When at rest and not styled, it is clearly made of curls/coils/spirals/bends. When styled it takes on an appearance of what folks call CNapps. My hair does the same thing. I think we might be twins.

ETA: I think the best definition for 4B hair would be to keep the NC addendum but add to it that "when styled, 4B hair has an appearance of CNapps" and then just post photos of CNapps coz I think CNapp hair is pretty self-explanatory.

But 'when styled' can't 4a hair take on the appearance of 4b? and 3c take on the appearance of 4a? The determining factor being that 4b cannot naturally be made to look like 4a and 4a cannot naturally be made to look like 3c... Like when people say that their hair looks like 4a when they wash it, but if they put gel and shake it looks like 3c. Then to me it means that they really are 3c. Like the pictures recently posted of Terri. Her hair can look like this:

or it can look like this

With manipulation a person with a 'lower hair type" like 3a, 3b, 3c can manipulate their hair to look like a 'higher hair type" like 3b, 3c, 4a. But NOT vice versa. I tried Terri's method and just not tangles. What I'm saying is that yes, 4b hair can look like cnapp, but cnapp is not going to look like 4b hair. Just because your hair can form defined curls/coils in certain conditions doens't mean that those with cnapp hair can.

 

[anon123]

Nadia Turner's hair is the epitome of 4A hair:



And just as you say of your hair, Nadia's has defined coils in some parts and not in others. But there's a circular structure to the strands whether they bend or not. Like a phone coil, the strands can have a bend that isn't spirally but just coz a phone coil might bend awkwardly in one spot that doesn't take away the fact that the general shape of the phone coil is spirally/curly. Likewise no one questions whether Nadia's hair is curly even though in some parts it seems to have no pattern because the hairs are all separated and mixed together. As I've shown you all before the only time hair gets corners that might be called Z's is after it's been braided. This is a characteristic that I don't thick occurs in other hair types but 4's.

Seriously Andre can't have really believed anyone's hair grew out of their heads in Z shapes.

Okay, Nonie. The last things I will say are these. First, you are right about 4a potentially having bends (though Nadia's hair is manipulated in those photos). Yes, I agree. I don't know that it all does, which is what I was talking about in the other thread I started on smooth coils or kinked coils.

The other thing is about the Zs. After some reading about the structure of hair follicles, it seems safe to say that some people's are structured to give a smoother coil while others' coils bend more sharply. This is just a natural progression. Just as wavy hair bends very softly and slowly, as the follicle hooks/curves or the more to the side of the follicle that the hair bulb lies, the sharper the turns and bends. So the smaller the coil, the more tightly it will turn, and this is what gives the appearance of "z"s. After all a "z" is an "s", just with a tight bend.

Interesting discussion in which I've learned a lot. Our hair is fascinating. For a closeup of our hair shaft and the way it kinks/curls, try googling "african sub-saharan hair". You'll get a Google Book result from Human Hair Diversity with a nice microscope view of our strands on pg. 30 and some informative text on our kinks.

btw, I don't think Crazy Coil's hair is that rare. The closeup of her hair looks just like mine. That closeup and a few other pictures on her site also show that her hair doesn't have to look as matte as it does in her wrap bun pic. While hers does naturally reflect light less than many others' hair, those particular pics, I think, are a result of lighting, her hair color, and not using certain types of moisturizers. Also, I've seen her shrinkage vs. stretched hair photos and it's just like mine. I'm sad her site is gone.

 

[Nonie]

But 'when styled' can't 4a hair take on the appearance of 4b? and 3c take on the appearance of 4a? The determining factor being that 4b cannot naturally be made to look like 4a and 4a cannot naturally be made to look like 3c... Like when people say that their hair looks like 4a when they wash it, but if they put gel and shake it looks like 3c. Then to me it means that they really are 3c. Like the pictures recently posted of Terri. Her hair can look like this:

or it can look like this

With manipulation a person with a 'lower hair type" like 3a, 3b, 3c can manipulate their hair to look like a 'higher hair type" like 3b, 3c, 4a. But NOT vice versa. I tried Terri's method and just not tangles. What I'm saying is that yes, 4b hair can look like cnapp, but cnapp is not going to look like 4b hair. Just because your hair can form defined curls/coils in certain conditions doens't mean that those with cnapp hair can.

I think the day I'll believe CNapp doesn't have curls/kinks/coils/bends like my hair is the day I myself am trusted with CNapp hair for a week to be in charge of it and to simplify the regimen (even if just of one section) and it never ever goes into a "resting mode" where it looks like my hair. Until then, I'm not going to believe it. Why? Because as I stated before I had CNapp hair until the new millennium. I had never seen my hair any differently. And as Mwedzi said, Crazycoils hair looks different in different states, which is what I've noticed with my hair. Also I think the darker the hair the more it appears to shine, and Crazycoil's hair is the blackest of black w/r/t mine. Mine looks like a faded black. Yet there are times when moisturized it appears to have a sheen and other times it's just as dull as can be.

Anyway, I don't think we'll ever get to agree and I don't think it's that serious. But if ever I do get my hands on CNapp hair and I'm entrusted to do with it as I please, I'll be sure to take pics and report back.

BTW, I'd be interested in knowing Crazycoil's regimen if anyone knows it.

ETA: Mwedzi, you mentioned that Crazycoil's hair is like yours. I have told you before that I believe we have the same hair and yesterday after seeing CC's hair w/o even knowing that you thought it looked like yours, I exclaimed she and I are twins. I see my hair in yours all the time which is why I still maintain my definition of 4B and that yours is 4B.

Oh and Nadia's hair I believe is most manipulated in the parts where it's not clumping, like to the right where it looks frizzy. If she were to wash her hair and just let it be, I can bet my bottom dollar the same features I pointed out would be evident throughout her hair. Anything that coils like a phone coil is bound to have a bend here and here that interrupts the uniform pattern, especially if its diameter is as small as that of hair.

 

[ladylibra]

Nadia Turner's hair is the epitome of 4A hair:

... but those of 4A are pen size and clearly visible

What's with all that fluff on the right side of Nadia's picture? Is that supposed to be 4a or 4b? And someone tell me, how come Nadia's looser coils are being depicted as 4a, but mine are always called 3c?

About the bolded. I thought 4a was pen-size to penspring-size, no?

I soooooooo can't stand hair typing... the more peoople talk about it, the more it confuses me...

 

[anon123]

Oh and Nadia's hair I believe is most manipulated in the parts where it's not clumping, like to the right where it looks frizzy. If she were to wash her hair and just let it be, I can bet my bottom dollar the same features I pointed out would be evident throughout her hair. Anything that coils like a phone coil is bound to have a bend here and here that interrupts the uniform pattern, especially if its diameter is as small as that of hair.

Okay, Nonie, your powers of persuasion have won me over. I'm convinced.