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Yes, I do believe they are of African descent, especially after reading these articles. And I still consider them of African descent even though some of them may have blonde hair and looser hair types. They are blended just like African American/ African European blacks. You're bound to find Black people with different color eyes, hair, and looser textures anywhere you go.
 
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I dont consider them black at all, if anything they are closer to the various tribes in India. Thier features seem to more of Indians from India then say from the peoples of Africa.
 
Since race is socially constructed and color is relative I, as an American of western African descent via the Middle Passage, can't really pass judgment on race and society outside my cultural context as a US black, especially a people whose history and culture is so very different. I'm in no position to criticize how other societies label people or how people from vastly different cultures choose to label themselves. Certainly many Australian aborigines (along with some South Asians, SE Asians, Pacific Islanders, etc) refer to themselves as 'black', especially in contrast to the Englishmen that colonized their homeland and subjugated them, so I have no qualms in calling them black also. I have heard of rights groups in Australia (as well as some in India) that look to the struggles of AAs, especially the Civil Rights and Black Power eras, for inspiration and see a connection with us due to color, history and treatment by the mainstream powers.

As for their relatedness to Africans and descendants of modern Africans, they basically aren't. At least no more so than the rest of humanity. They are no more related to Africans than are Europeans, South Americans, Asians. They are of the populations of humans that are least connected genetically to modern African populations; the ancestors of Europeans left Northeast Africa tens of thousands of years after the ancestors of Australians, New Zealanders, etc so basically white Euros have a closer connection genetically to the continent than do dark skinned, broad featured aborigines. Australians, etc are most closely related to other SE Asians though they often resemble them very little in terms of surface or 'racial' appearance.

Further proof that you can't prove relation through only looking at superficial characteristics, that humanity can't be divided neatly into neat categories and exemplifies how much environment molds appearance.

but to actually answer the question :lol:, yes I do consider them black (or at least those that self-identify as such, don't know if they're the majority) but I don't consider them African or of the African diaspora simply because of their appearance. To me black, African, AA (Afro-whatever) are not mutually inclusive terms; a person can be none, only one or all three depending on heritage, history and self-identification.
 
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PREACH!

Tell it!:notworthy

Since race is socially constructed and color is relative I, as an American of western African descent via the Middle Passage, can't really pass judgment on race and society outside my cultural context as a US black, especially a people whose history and culture is so very different. I'm in no position to criticize how other societies label people or how people from vastly different cultures choose to label themselves. Certainly many Australian aborigines (along with some South Asians, SE Asians, Pacific Islanders, etc) refer to themselves as 'black', especially in contrast to the Englishmen that colonized their homeland and subjugated them, so I have no qualms in calling them black also. I have heard of rights groups in Australia (as well as some in India) that look to the struggles of AAs, especially the Civil Rights and Black Power eras, for inspiration and see a connection with us due to color, history and treatment by the mainstream powers.

As for their relatedness to Africans and descendants of modern Africans, they basically aren't. At least no more so than the rest of humanity. They are no more related to Africans than are Europeans, South Americans, Asians. They are of the populations of humans that are least connected genetically to modern African populations; the ancestors of Europeans left Northeast Africa tens of thousands of years after the ancestors of Australians, New Zealanders, etc so basically white Euros have a closer connection genetically to the continent than do dark skinned, broad featured aborigines. Australians, etc are most closely related to other SE Asians though they often resemble them very little in terms of surface or 'racial' appearance.

Further proof that you can't prove relation through only looking at superficial characteristics, that humanity can't be divided neatly into neat categories and exemplifies how much environment molds appearance.

but to actually answer the question :lol:, yes I do consider them black (or at least those that self-identify as such, don't know if they're the majority) but I don't consider them African or of the African diaspora simply because of their appearance. To me black, African, AA (Afro-whatever) are not mutually inclusive terms; a person can be none, only one or all three depending on heritage, history and self-identification.
 
I consider them to be another brown race.

I saw a true documentary I where they tried to cleanse the race by mixing an Aborigines female with the white partner. Which in many cases the couples evaluated produced a caucasuan looking offspring majority of the time. It went on for a while but they never succeeded. Many women were held against their own will to this expermental relationships. Lots of them escaped and feld back to their tribes. Wish I could remember the name of the documentary.
 
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Not this mess again. :::annoyed anthropologist:::

Black, white, yellow, brown--- that is your color.
Aboriginee, Dutch, African, Panamanian--- that is your ethnicity.
There is no such thing as race.

Don't get it twisted. What you look like doesn't determine where you come from, and where you come from doesn't determine what you'll look like. You can't tell someone whose family has been in South Africa or Nigeria for hundreds of years that they aren't African just because their skin is white, and you can't tell someone whose family has been in Cuba for hundreds of years that they are'nt Cuban just because they are black.

Aboriginees are not African at all in terms of ethnicity (so what if they had an ancestor that came from Africa in 100,000 BP? Everyone had a common ancestor from Africa, so you can't keep using that. If that were the case then Native Americans have to refer to themselves as Asian). They're just like Native Americans here: sure they came from somewhere else, but they have changed so much over time that they cannot and will not be called "Asian" or "African."

However, they are black. Just like we are black, just like there are black hispanics, black europeans... etc.


THANK YOU for bringing this up. Just because someone has dark skin and/or kinky hair doesn't mean they're "Black" or of African desecent.
 
DNA confirms Aboriginal Australian origins

Tuesday, 8 May 2007
by Hamish Clarke
Cosmos Online
20070508_PapuaChildren.jpg
New Guinean children: The founding group leaving Africa 50,000 to 70,000 years ago may have had similar physical features, which were then lost elsewhere, say researchers. The new analysis shows that aboriginal Australians and New Guineans share a common ancestry.
Image: Peter Forster




SYDNEY: Australian Aborigines descend from the same lineage as the first modern humans to migrate from Africa, DNA analysis has confirmed. The find is a further blow to the idea that the evolution of indigenous Australians was marked by many migrations from Asia.
"We wanted to know whether the same 'Out-of-Africa' migration that was responsible for founding the gene pools of Eurasia was also the basis for Australia's population… or were there several separate migrations?" said study co-author and evolutionary biologist Toomas Kivisild, of the University of Cambridge in England.
The Out-of-Africa theory argues that modern humans evolved in Africa 100,000 to 200,000 years ago and one group migrated out to the rest of the world between 50,000 and 70,000 years ago, replacing – and not mixing with – ancient homo populations already there.

Alternative scenarios
Though many anthropologists accepted that Australia's native population arrived in a single wave 50,000 or so years ago, alternative migration scenarios have been proposed to explain confusing features in the aboriginal fossil record. For example, some experts argue that unusually small and less robust skulls compared to thicker later skulls found among early human remains found in Australia, are inconsistent with an Australian population that had been isolated since its inception.
In order to resolve these questions, lead author Georgi Hudjashov, of the University of Tartu in Estonia, and colleagues compared the DNA of living indigenous Australians in Kalumburu, Western Australia with DNA from people in New Guinea and around the Indian Ocean.
As a kind of belt and braces approach, the team followed both maternal and paternal lineages by analysing mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) and Y chromosome DNA respectively. MtDNA is used as a record of the maternal line of descent, as it only passes from mothers to daughters in their eggs. Likewise DNA on the Y chromosome is present only in males, so it can be used to trace our paternal lineages.
"Integrating the Y and mtDNA data is a good approach, as usually research teams rely on only the maternal, or paternal, evidence," commented Peter Brown, a palaeoanthropologist with the University of New England in Armidale, Australia.


Little gene flow
Their analysis showed that DNA from people in New Guinea and aboriginal Australians could be traced back to early branches of the human phylogenetic tree, associated with the first humans to leave Africa 50,000 - 70,000 years ago. The study is revealed today in the U.S. journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
The DNA analysis also revealed very little gene flow into Australia and New Guinea in the 50,000 or so years since the initial migration. Australians evolved in relative isolation compared to other parts of the Indian Ocean, which were subject to much more genetic mixing, said the study authors. This in turn suggests that developments in language and tool use were not influenced by outside sources, they said.
Not everyone agrees about the proposed extent of differences in Aboriginal fossils anyway. "The variability amongst Australian fossils tends to be exaggerated," commented David Bulbeck from Australian National University's School of Archaeology and Anthropology in Canberra. He argues that differences can be explained by climate and it's effect on physiology, rather than a series of migrations from Asia.
According to palaeoanthropologist Mike Morwood, also of the University of New England in Armidale, the paper confirms what many experts already believed – "that modern humans first appeared in Africa around 200,000 years ago, and that they dispersed out of Africa."






Interesting article
 
Not this mess again. :::annoyed anthropologist:::

Black, white, yellow, brown--- that is your color.
Aboriginee, Dutch, African, Panamanian--- that is your ethnicity.
There is no such thing as race.

Don't get it twisted. What you look like doesn't determine where you come from, and where you come from doesn't determine what you'll look like. You can't tell someone whose family has been in South Africa or Nigeria for hundreds of years that they aren't African just because their skin is white, and you can't tell someone whose family has been in Cuba for hundreds of years that they are'nt Cuban just because they are black.

Aboriginees are not African at all in terms of ethnicity (so what if they had an ancestor that came from Africa in 100,000 BP? Everyone had a common ancestor from Africa, so you can't keep using that. If that were the case then Native Americans have to refer to themselves as Asian). They're just like Native Americans here: sure they came from somewhere else, but they have changed so much over time that they cannot and will not be called "Asian" or "African."

However, they are black. Just like we are black, just like there are black hispanics, black europeans... etc.


The ethnicity has always confused me. Wouldn't the examples you gave be more of a nationality. Like for instance aren't there different ethnicities within the african population, Dutch and Panamanians?
 
they had a documentary on PBS a couple months ago and tested aboriginies and some indians and some other people and traced them back to a certain part of africa....very interesting


I would love to see that.....wonder where I can see it again? Youtube.com, pbs.com, order a video, or is it coming on again?
 
That is tragic. She is pretty, for a light skinned person, but by no means the best representation of what India has to offer as far as looks--- there are so many beautiful people there who aren't light. But I have seen some beautiful brown Indians with gorgeous hair. I remember crushing on this Pakistani guy with gorgeous black locks and brown eyes and brown skin. Now that I think of it we were practically the same color, him being a little darker. Man... too bad his whole family was strict on him dating and all..:look:


What does the bolded red mean? I just think that is equivalent to a white guy saying, "She is pretty for a black girl," as if black girls are not pretty by default.


And yeah, I agree, I've seen some cute Pakistani guys.
 
What does the bolded red mean? I just think that is equivalent to a white guy saying, "She is pretty for a black girl," as if black girls are not pretty by default.


And yeah, I agree, I've seen some cute Pakistani guys.

dont take offense, i meant it to say that there are more than just pretty light skinned people, you know... like there are pretty people who are dark, light, yellow, brown.. etc... i don't have a problem with light people
 
The ethnicity has always confused me. Wouldn't the examples you gave be more of a nationality. Like for instance aren't there different ethnicities within the african population, Dutch and Panamanians?
African is not a nationality, because Africa is not a nation. We are not using nationality to describe ethnicity because ANYONE, (black white purple brown violet) can be of ANY nationality (think Albanians for example). It is a continent, like a person can be European American or African American. Nigerian is a nationality, however it is also an ethnicity. There are white Nigerians and white South Africans... but they are not ethnically so--- typically their ethnicity is some kind of European. You can refer to someone's ethnicity as African or Asian or European to be more general, instead of picking it apart by countries.

For examlple:

I'm black, that is my color.
My dad is Nigerian, and my mom is American, both born and raised there respectively.
I consider myself to be Nigerian American, because that is my parents' ethnicities. I can also refer to myself as African American... because that is my ethnicity as well (same continent, just a broader term that can allow me to identify with other Americans who are from other African countries).
 
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They are unique looking!! I googled them, and saw a brown-skinned girl with blonde hair. I think that's pretty, because it is contrary to the norm. :yep:
 
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DNA confirms Aboriginal Australian origins

Tuesday, 8 May 2007
by Hamish Clarke
Cosmos Online
20070508_PapuaChildren.jpg
New Guinean children: The founding group leaving Africa 50,000 to 70,000 years ago may have had similar physical features, which were then lost elsewhere, say researchers. The new analysis shows that aboriginal Australians and New Guineans share a common ancestry.
Image: Peter Forster




SYDNEY: Australian Aborigines descend from the same lineage as the first modern humans to migrate from Africa, DNA analysis has confirmed. The find is a further blow to the idea that the evolution of indigenous Australians was marked by many migrations from Asia.
"We wanted to know whether the same 'Out-of-Africa' migration that was responsible for founding the gene pools of Eurasia was also the basis for Australia's population… or were there several separate migrations?" said study co-author and evolutionary biologist Toomas Kivisild, of the University of Cambridge in England.
The Out-of-Africa theory argues that modern humans evolved in Africa 100,000 to 200,000 years ago and one group migrated out to the rest of the world between 50,000 and 70,000 years ago, replacing – and not mixing with – ancient homo populations already there.

Alternative scenarios
Though many anthropologists accepted that Australia's native population arrived in a single wave 50,000 or so years ago, alternative migration scenarios have been proposed to explain confusing features in the aboriginal fossil record. For example, some experts argue that unusually small and less robust skulls compared to thicker later skulls found among early human remains found in Australia, are inconsistent with an Australian population that had been isolated since its inception.
In order to resolve these questions, lead author Georgi Hudjashov, of the University of Tartu in Estonia, and colleagues compared the DNA of living indigenous Australians in Kalumburu, Western Australia with DNA from people in New Guinea and around the Indian Ocean.
As a kind of belt and braces approach, the team followed both maternal and paternal lineages by analysing mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) and Y chromosome DNA respectively. MtDNA is used as a record of the maternal line of descent, as it only passes from mothers to daughters in their eggs. Likewise DNA on the Y chromosome is present only in males, so it can be used to trace our paternal lineages.
"Integrating the Y and mtDNA data is a good approach, as usually research teams rely on only the maternal, or paternal, evidence," commented Peter Brown, a palaeoanthropologist with the University of New England in Armidale, Australia.


Little gene flow
Their analysis showed that DNA from people in New Guinea and aboriginal Australians could be traced back to early branches of the human phylogenetic tree, associated with the first humans to leave Africa 50,000 - 70,000 years ago. The study is revealed today in the U.S. journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
The DNA analysis also revealed very little gene flow into Australia and New Guinea in the 50,000 or so years since the initial migration. Australians evolved in relative isolation compared to other parts of the Indian Ocean, which were subject to much more genetic mixing, said the study authors. This in turn suggests that developments in language and tool use were not influenced by outside sources, they said.
Not everyone agrees about the proposed extent of differences in Aboriginal fossils anyway. "The variability amongst Australian fossils tends to be exaggerated," commented David Bulbeck from Australian National University's School of Archaeology and Anthropology in Canberra. He argues that differences can be explained by climate and it's effect on physiology, rather than a series of migrations from Asia.
According to palaeoanthropologist Mike Morwood, also of the University of New England in Armidale, the paper confirms what many experts already believed – "that modern humans first appeared in Africa around 200,000 years ago, and that they dispersed out of Africa."






Interesting article

Wow. Very interesting. I guess this answers a lot of questions.
 
DNA confirms EVERYONE's African origins. That's where we all came from.

Realize that Native Americans came from Sibera (DNA confirmed that too, but scientists aren't referring to them as Asian Americans for a reason) across the Bering strait. Changes overtime in their genes have made them different from other Asians across the world, so it is not appropriate to refer to them as Asian, although that is where their ancestors did come from. They no longer look the same on the outside, they developed COMPLETELY different cultures, and their genes have changed to a great extent as well. Yes, they can be identified by DNA to have origins in Siberia, BUT you can stand one of them next to someone who is from Siberia right now and they are VERY different.

This same idea can be applied to Aboriginees of Austrailia. Yes, their DNA does say they have African origins. Is their DNA today exactly the same as Africans? NO. Just like black Americans are not the same as Africans. AUSTRALIAN ABORIGINEES LEFT AFRICA 70,000 - 100,000 years ago! And that was even way before the Native Americans came here (they came at least 20,000 years ago)! They are even MORE different from Africans than the Native Americans here are different from Asians.

Once again, there is no such thing as race, so we can't even compare that.
They do not have the same ethnicity either.

The only thing they share is color- they are still black, even though they are NOT African. If we were to call them African we might as well call Native Americans in the US and the vast majority of Mexicans (the brown ones who are not of Spanish European descent) Asian. And although they are the same color, they aren't the same. Tens of thousands of years has literally changed that.
 
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DNA confirms EVERYONE's African origins. That's where we all came from.

Realize that Native Americans came from Sibera (DNA confirmed that too, but scientists aren't referring to them as Asian Americans for a reason) across the Bering strait. Changes overtime in their genes have made them different from other Asians across the world, so it is not appropriate to refer to them as Asian, although that is where their ancestors did come from. They no longer look the same on the outside, they developed COMPLETELY different cultures, and their genes have changed to a great extent as well. Yes, they can be identified by DNA to have origins in Siberia, BUT you can stand one of them next to someone who is from Siberia right now and they are VERY different.

This same idea can be applied to Aboriginees of Austrailia. Yes, their DNA does say they have African origins. Is their DNA today exactly the same as Africans? NO. Just like black Americans are not the same as Africans. AUSTRALIAN ABORIGINEES LEFT AFRICA 70,000 - 100,000 years ago! And that was even way before the Native Americans came here (they came at least 20,000 years ago)! They are even MORE different from Africans than the Native Americans here are different from Asians.

Once again, there is no such thing as race, so we can't even compare that
They do not have the same ethnicity either.

The only thing they share is color- they are still black, even though they are NOT African. If we were to call them African we might as well call Native Americans in the US and the vast majority of Mexicans (the brown ones who are not of Spanish European descent) Asian. And although they are the same color, they aren't the same. Tens of thousands of years has literally changed that.

I agree with this partial. The Africans and African Americans of now are NOT the same as the original people that were in that land. Same with the Aboringinees. They are not Black people. And I am talking Black people as in the Black race.

Same as Native Americans and Asians; they are two totally different races now.

Latinos are their own race as well. I know there is the whole "hispanic" debate, blah, blah. But I'm talking about the Latinos that are of the Spanish/Native American mixture. That is the base, regardless if they have some African or some other white mixture in them.
 
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I agree with this partial. The Africans and African Americans of now are NOT the same as the original people that were in that land. Same with the Aboringinees. They are not Black people. And I am talking Black people as in the Black race.

Same as Native Americans and Asians; they are two totally different races now.

Latinos are their own race as well. I know there is the whole "hispanic" debate, blah, blah. But I'm talking about the Latinos that are of the Spanish/Native American mixture. That is the base, regardless if they have some African or some other white mixture in them.

As far as what you bolded and italicized, those people are Mestizo. Mestizo entails European mixed with Indigenous peoples.

Being Hispanic or Latino doesn't make you any less black. You can be a black Puerto Rican or a black Cuban. There are white Peruvians and black ones too. All hispanic countries have black citizens, just like the US and Canada.
 
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