Jouelzy - So Over the Natural Hair Community & Texture Discrimination 4c

[BostonMaria]

She is not complaining about the subscribers, it's more so the double standard in the natural hair community and how woman of kinkier textures are not being represented enough particularly in the media.

Wait, be positive, keep believing, and all will surely be yours. Sent from my iPhone using LHCF

OK gotcha sorry I guess I shouldn't read so fast. I do believe there is a fascination with curls. I guess my "fascination" is just long hair.

By the way, your signature always throws me off. I always think you're telling me to chill (be positive) Ahaha

 

[Britt]

If we are still in a place where Traycee from KISS77 is on the verge of tears because she has decided to go natural because she doesn't want to deal with her 4c hair, than we still have a very long way to go in terms of love, self acceptance, and learning to truly appreciate all the diversity we encompass in the Diaspora.

I noticed this too in her video. She looked like she thought longgg and hard and is not really excited about her new journey. She really looked like she was trying to keep it together. The video had a bit of a somber feel for her.

There is just as much unconscious discrimination to naturals that are 40 and older. I only see young and beautiful naturals getting the accolades, but this is true in society as a whole.

YEPPPPP! I'm 32 and I feel this way lol. A woman on curly nikki is over 40 was talking about this. She pretty much said the natural community caters to the youth and no one really gives attention to the older naturals.

 

[Ogoma]

IMO the natural hair community is primarily made up of women with type 4 hair so who are we scolding? Ourselves? If there is a hierarchy, it is one reinforced by the very women that are claiming to be at the bottom. BGLH did an article a while ago about something similar to this. She was advised to put women with curlier hair on her website to attract black women with kinky hair.

Now to Joulezy's point: I get why she is upset. This preference for less kinky hair impacts her money. I would be pissed if I were her. I am not sure what the solution is because she cannot force people to like or cater to her hair type. Videos like this might get those companies to examine themselves or guilt people into hiring her. I kind of like her snarky self.

I like Curl Junkie, but it seems pretty clear to me this company is not catering to kinkier hair types. She has a ton of products that work for a lot of hair types/patterns, but don't expect to see kinkier hair types or black women in ads for her company or the front page of her website. That is not the core consumer she is chasing. A business gets to set who her core customers are, what products she is creating, and how she is marketing it. What would be the point of getting pissed at Curl Junkie for not featuring kinkier hairstyles when it is not her targeted audience?

 

[*Frisky*]

If we are still in a place where Traycee from KISS77 is on the verge of tears because she has decided to go natural because she doesn't want to deal with her 4c hair, than we still have a very long way to go in terms of love, self acceptance, and learning to truly appreciate all the diversity we encompass in the Diaspora.

Dam I didn't watch all the video so I had to go back and yes, she definitely has issues with her natural hair. She is just going to turn into a wig wearer like she is doing now anyway. I won't be surprised it she loses some subscribers. If her channel has been about her long hair, some people aren't going to be here for her doing a total switch up. Hopefully she will come to terms with her hair one day.

 

[Wildchild453]

I personally understand where she's coming from. She's saying that it takes work to put out quality videos (as far as lighting, camera, technique, etc), it takes work and dedication to acquire a large amount of subscribers and views, yet she isn't compensated in the same way some people with a lesser quality and less subscribers/views might.

Why should she be compensated? These companies aren't obligated to work with her. She went into YT on an assumption that that would be the outcome and it didn't work out. Oh well.

If anything I see, companies flock to the 4a more than anyone else.

 

[Mahogony7]

Wait, people are the verge of tears over something they have control oferplexed?! If you feel that strongly why even do it? It's not like someone is forcing her hand. If she enjoys her relaxed hair then she should stay relaxed.

 

[Dreamn]

Wait, people are the verge of tears over something they have control oferplexed?! If you feel that strongly why even do it? It's not like someone is forcing her hand. If she enjoys her relaxed hair then she should stay relaxed.

Yes, can someone answer why she's going natural?

 

[faithVA]

I have sooo much to say but I'm going to need another cup of coffee. I didn't watch the video but I live a lot of Jouelzy's pain so not going to bother right now.

My hair type is Jouelzy. Whatever she is, that is what I am. She is the first person I ever saw on yt whose hair looked like mine. And it is rare that I see people on yt or on the net with hair like mine.

I have been watching Jouelzy for a while and she was cool when she first started out. The Jouelzy I think we are seeing now is the real Jouelzy. She has dropped the politically correct version and she has just let loose. Unfortunately, I think she lost people with the loud, angry sounding, trash talking thing. It may be ok with one video but I don't want to see that week to week. She forgot her audience is broad and got to comfortable.

As far as hair typing separating us, No. When I was 8 years old before there was such a thing as hair typing, I could clearly look around and see that the girl next door, and the girls across the street had hair that wasn't anything near like mine. My hair wasn't ever going to do that and wasn't ever going to be like that. Whether we put a label on our hair or not, we know early on our hair is different. I don't feel differently about my hair because it is now labeled 4 something. I knew it was 4 something all along. It didn't change anything. It did allow me to at least try to find some people who could probably help me.

I don't think hair like Jouelzy's and mine are as common as some other hair at least not by what I see. I do think that people with hair similar to mine if they do go natural tend to hide it or keep it tucked away. I think we have a lot of challenges with our hair and many of them are dismissed. We are told, oh just go do 1, 2 and 3 and you will be OK. So few of us have really figured out how to manage our own hair and so there are very few of us to support others like us in our own natural journey.

I have more to say but Woosah. I'm going to let it go.

Im sure I agree with what most of the posters in this thread with hair similar to mine have already said.

Jouelzy has to work out her issues. Maybe this will help her do so.

 

[kandake]

Wait, people are the verge of tears over something they have control oferplexed?! If you feel that strongly why even do it? It's not like someone is forcing her hand. If she enjoys her relaxed hair then she should stay relaxed.

I agree. I don't see the point, unless she has some sort of condition that prohibits her from continuing with relaxers. If it causes you that much anxiety that you're in tears(or near tears) just keep the doggone relaxer.

People act so strange about this natural vs. relaxed thing.

 

[blackeyes31626]

I agree with everything she said. Another girl on yt(kinksgalore(sp?)) made a video about this too...I agree w/ her too.

 

[kandake]

I kind of agree with her to a certain extent but at the same time why do we make race and hair texture such an issue. I mean when I am watching someone on youtube I am not watching because they are similar to me, I watch because I like the content that they put out!

I actually just found her page the other day and have been watching some of her videos and I do like that she is very opinionated but that could be off putting to many people.

Me personally, I post videos not for views but because I want to. I like putting stuff up on youtube and if someone doesn't like watching because of my hair texture or skin color or whatever, then oh well!! Watch someone else! There are plenty of people out there!

Companies hire models with hair that is pleasing to the eye to most people. Many people see those photos of the girls with the 3 type hair and think that if they buy said product their hair will look like that. That is called advertising....

Anyway, all that to basically say I really don't think its that serious. People are shallow and thats never going to change. We are becoming more open minded as a whole but there is always going to be some type of discrimination. Its just human nature.

What's your channel?

 

[naturalmanenyc]

koolkittychick

I haven't followed Traycee in a few years since I decided to go natural in 2008. I had no idea she was in tears over the decision to go natural. It's sort of odd when being natural isn't a requirement.erplexed

If we are still in a place where Traycee from KISS77 is on the verge of tears because she has decided to go natural because she doesn't want to deal with her 4c hair, than we still have a very long way to go in terms of love, self acceptance, and learning to truly appreciate all the diversity we encompass in the Diaspora.

 

[Cherokee-n-Black]

I'm 3C and feel frustrated with my hair and feel like all these products are for 4A hair.... but I'm probably seeing things from my perspective only so I do believe the article.

Don't know who this lady is but giving up isn't the solution.

I agree that the grass is always greener, somehow. It's interesting that we start to devolve into this divisiveness no matter what the perspective (I think I'm 3c but I've never really figured it out. My hair is not curly, its crinkly). One of the major shifts with the curly girl/natural movement is that all these women who have what is now somehow seen as the "preferred" hair type were relaxing their hair because someone previously told them that their hair wasn't "good enough." I know I definitely got told that growing up. All of this has its origins in the attack on black hair texture from slavery on up to present day, but even curly 3c's and 4a's showing their natural texture is progress. Those types were NOT considered to be "good hair." We may not be there yet in terms of universally embracing the hair in the 4c range, but I actually believe we will get there. I also think the science and technology has not yet caught up. There are some types that seem to have more of an issue with moisture retention. I think once that secret is unlocked, you will see a lot more of those textures represented. As for hair typing, it was hierchial fromm the start. Doesn't it seem a bit like "ranking" instead of "typing." And #1 is bone straight? Wish it have never been invented. SMH...

 

[koolkittychick]

Wait, people are the verge of tears over something they have control oferplexed?! If you feel that strongly why even do it? It's not like someone is forcing her hand. If she enjoys her relaxed hair then she should stay relaxed.

According to the video, she has decided to go natural for a couple of reasons. One, she could not get consistent results with textlaxing, and that was causing problems. Second, her last relaxer experience was not good (she didn't elaborating on the reasons why), and so she wanted to take a break from it. While they were valid reasons, it really did seem like she was veeery emotional (and not in a good way) about having to come to the decision to go natural. Hopefully she will get the support she seems to need from the bloggers who are transitioning with her (who seem to have a much better attitude towards transitioning) and she seriously makes use of all the resources out there so that she does not spend the whole time under wigs and weaves.

 

[Amarilles]

Why should she be compensated? These companies aren't obligated to work with her. She went into YT on an assumption that that would be the outcome and it didn't work out. Oh well.

If anything I see, companies flock to the 4a more than anyone else.

Well, no one has to be I guess. But I think we all would feel some kind of way if we are successful in our careers but someone in your domain who is notably less successful is getting more rewards/better pay/more attention.

It's a matter of sense of achievement. She feels that her 80k subscribers, her video content and quality, runs a hair column, her putting on a successful hair expo, etc, speaks for itself and blames her texture on the lack attention/opportunities from companies.

This particular video stems from her not being asked to be part hair events, the World National Hair Show in particular methinks, and not being given opportunities that less successful YouTubers are getting.

 

[Bette Davis Eyes]

LOL

First shes talking REALLY Fast. Second... Nappturality loves them some "4Cs" over there and always has.

Whether or not you agree with what Nappturality stands for, Dee eked out a home for those who do not feel as if the "natural hair community" is for them..

I started out in 2006 over there and never got into the whole "curl pop" thing. If you go by hair typing I am a 4a with 4b above the ears but can easily brush my hair out and look 4b.


As a product junkie and lazy blogger. I buy what I want and review what I want. I do not go to companies asking them to provide me hair products.

Under PPJ companies did send us products to review but 9 times out of 10 we already had bought said items.

If thats why you started your vlogging(to get hair products sent for free), then you set yourself back from the get go.

You get what you want out of this journey. Its easy to follow YT folks with hair types not like yours and yes they get more views than said others but its up to you to decide who to follow.

I'm rarely on YT and I look to not a one to inspire me. I've found more inspiration on the hair forums than anywhere else.

 

[Mahogony7]

^^Now I understand where she is coming from, but her delivery is piss poor. She needs to take it down a notch.

 

[Mahogony7]

According to the video, she has decided to go natural for a couple of reasons. One, she could not get consistent results with textlaxing, and that was causing problems. Second, her last relaxer experience was not good (she didn't elaborating on the reasons why), and so she wanted to take a break from it. While they were valid reasons, it really did seem like she was veeery emotional (and not in a good way) about having to come to the decision to go natural. Hopefully she will get the support she seems to need from the bloggers who are transitioning with her (who seem to have a much better attitude towards transitioning) and she seriously makes use of all the resources out there so that she does not spend the whole time under wigs and weaves.

Then why not explore other options in the relaxed area. Maybe try a new relaxer or get it done by a professional. She will be tears if she is attempting to transition with all that length. Wait until its time for her to detangle.

 

[nubiennze]

Just watched Traycee's video, and to me she seemed more emotional about having cut so much of her hair than anything. She faltered right when she mentioned her hair being the shortest it's ever been since she started her hair journey, and she was adamant about not big chopping/never wanting short hair.

I found her issues with relaxing relatively straightforward: she was experiencing too much burning and didn't want to have to do it anymore. She said she's been natural as an adult and knows what to expect, but initially relaxed to combat shrinkage (again, presumably to show length).

I think she's primarily experiencing length apprehension, but if she did it once, she can do it again. I'm sure she'll be just fine.

 

[Ogoma]

I am not sure I agree one person crying over going natural (when she has the option not to) is an indictment on all of us and how we feel about our hair. Extrapolating from her strange actions to all black women seems a stretch at best.

 

[*Frisky*]

Well, no one has to be I guess. But I think we all would feel some kind of way if we are successful in our careers but someone in your domain who is notably less successful is getting more rewards/better pay/more attention.

It's a matter of sense of achievement. She feels that her 80k subscribers, her video content and quality, runs a hair column, her putting on a successful hair expo, etc, speaks for itself and blames her texture on the lack attention/opportunities from companies.

This particular video stems from her not being asked to be part hair events, the World National Hair Show in particular methinks, and not being given opportunities that less successful YouTubers are getting.

I am trying to figure out what Youtube vloggers were invited to the hair show that might of sparked this. I saw some Youtube people there but they were just walking around like everybody else. I didn't see them speak, give a seminars etc unless I missed it. The only one I saw doing this was Jenelle and she works with Shea Moisture.

 

[DigitalRain]

Kind of off topic but how do some of yall sit and watch these people talk about their hair for so long?

Traycee's video is 10 minutes of non stop talking. I couldn't do it.

 

[1QTPie]

I only read the first page, so forgive me.


#1, she talks too fast, and she doesn't enunciate.
#2, she cannot depend upon other people to make her feel pretty or included.

There is an entire forum dedicated to napptural hair. She should check it out, it's been around for almost 20 years!

With that said, there will always be preferences and biases in the hair community. She doesn't even seem to really like her hair. It's strange.


You all say that she's pretty popular though so I'm not understanding the complaint. There are a couple of pretty big YouTubers (NikkiMae is one) that have similar hair to hers, post less and are doing really well in the view department and sponsorships. YouTube success is not overnight for everyone. I can only think of maybe two hair-oriented YTers that have had overnight success (ItsmyRayeRaye is one.) These people grind. And some of them are on their second or third channel and blog because they had to rethink and revamp their image. It takes work, networking, yes-work and sometimes butt-kissing. It's about who you know, and a great personality.


Also, IMO, length is what moves people to click more than texture. Curly hair is everywhere. People seem to be more fascinated by long hair no matter the texture.

 

[oneastrocurlie]

Kind of off topic but how do some of yall sit and watch these people talk about their hair for so long?

Traycee's video is 10 minutes of non stop talking. I couldn't do it.

Lol. I have a 1 min attention span with YouTube videos in general. I look for the shortest video I can find. And I'm visual so I often put them on mute. I'm a weirdo.

 

[MileHighDiva]

Wait, people are the verge of tears over something they have control oferplexed?! If you feel that strongly why even do it? It's not like someone is forcing her hand. If she enjoys her relaxed hair then she should stay relaxed.

Yes, can someone answer why she's going natural?

I agree. I don't see the point, unless she has some sort of condition that prohibits her from continuing with relaxers. If it causes you that much anxiety that you're in tears(or near tears) just keep the doggone relaxer.

People act so strange about this natural vs. relaxed thing.

I was wondering about that too, so I looked at her last two relaxer update videos and she has been getting scalp burns and scabs.

 

[BostonMaria]

Just watched Traycee's video, and to me she seemed more emotional about having cut so much of her hair than anything. She faltered right when she mentioned her hair being the shortest it's ever been since she started her hair journey, and she was adamant about not big chopping/never wanting short hair.

I found her issues with relaxing relatively straightforward: she was experiencing too much burning and didn't want to have to do it anymore. She said she's been natural as an adult and knows what to expect, but initially relaxed to combat shrinkage (again, presumably to show length).

I think she's primarily experiencing length apprehension, but if she did it once, she can do it again. I'm sure she'll be just fine.

Tracee SNEEZES and her hair grows 3 inches LOL I hope she's reading this!
She used to be a member here. I'm used to having long hair now. If I cut it back to BSL you better believe I'll be upset and will cry my butt off.

I can understand being scared of losing subscribers because the relaxed hair ladies might stop visiting her channel. On the other hand, she will probably gain a bunch of subscribers that have type 4 hair. I subscribe to people that are interesting. Heck I used to subscribe to her and my hair is not texlaxed LOL I just like hair.

 

[1QTPie]

Kind of off topic but how do some of yall sit and watch these people talk about their hair for so long?

Traycee's video is 10 minutes of non stop talking. I couldn't do it.

This is how I do internet all day long.

I press play, let it load. Watch about 30 seconds, then I go do some work and let it play in the background. I can take in most of what someone is saying without giving it my full attention. IF, they say a ton of things that interest me, I will pause it and some times put it in watch later. It can take me a full hour to watch one 10 minute video. I also have like 50 tabs open, so I can revisit a video several times during the week that I started and never finished. (I don't advise this, as it eats up your RAM.)

But letting it play in the background is the only way I can watch any of the youtube families or vloggers who are long winded. If it's something that I have to watch, like a makeup tutorial or hair tutorial, i just fast forward to the parts I want to see since it gives a little highlight when you hover over the video play bar.

 

[Bette Davis Eyes]

IMO the natural hair community is primarily made up of women with type 4 hair so who are we scolding? Ourselves? If there is a hierarchy, it is one reinforced by the very women that are claiming to be at the bottom. BGLH did an article a while ago about something similar to this. She was advised to put women with curlier hair on her website to attract black women with kinky hair.

Now to Joulezy's point: I get why she is upset. This preference for less kinky hair impacts her money. I would be pissed if I were her. I am not sure what the solution is because she cannot force people to like or cater to her hair type. Videos like this might get those companies to examine themselves or guilt people into hiring her. I kind of like her snarky self.

I like Curl Junkie, but it seems pretty clear to me this company is not catering to kinkier hair types. She has a ton of products that work for a lot of hair types/patterns, but don't expect to see kinkier hair types or black women in ads for her company or the front page of her website. That is not the core consumer she is chasing. A business gets to set who her core customers are, what products she is creating, and how she is marketing it. What would be the point of getting pissed at Curl Junkie for not featuring kinkier hairstyles when it is not her targeted audience?

And I find that weird that a lot of folks think curl junkie isnt for them because they dont see kinky models on the website. Actually I find it weird when any website is like that. Marsha has a mixture of 4a/3c hair(owner). I'm a tightly kinky 4a and I stan for curl Junkie. I put her up on a combo of her products that works for my hair and her own hair loved it as well.

I also like Ouidad and products that type 3s tend to love.

 

[kandake]

Kind of off topic but how do some of yall sit and watch these people talk about their hair for so long?

Traycee's video is 10 minutes of non stop talking. I couldn't do it.

If you're likeable, funny and I've followed your hair journey, I'll sit and listen to you talk.

 

[Ogoma]

And I find that weird that a lot of folks think curl junkie isnt for them because they dont see kinky models on the website. Actually I find it weird when any website is like that. Marsha has a mixture of 4a/3c hair(owner). I'm a tightly kinky 4a and I stan for curl Junkie. I put her up on a combo of her products that works for my hair and her own hair loved it as well.

I also like Ouidad and products that type 3s tend to love.

What hair type the owner does or does not have is not really the point. As I mentioned in my comments, her hair products work for many hair types (and not just those she features).

But there is no two ways about it, a company advertises to their target audience. How does it make sense to want to target kinky haired women, but never advertise to them. How do you plan to reach them? She has no problem advertising to other women so no other explanation makes sense to me. As I noted, it is her company and she gets to make those choices.

I like some Ouidad products and she directs marketing at kinky haired women much more than Curl Junkie does so not sure how you are connecting the two with my comment. My comment had nothing to do with what type 3s like.