Jouelzy - So Over the Natural Hair Community & Texture Discrimination 4c

[koolkittychick]

I think she is right on point with what she is saying. I think hair typing is the new code language for asking, "Do you have good hair?" I think the hair industry capitalizes on this deeply ingrained insecurity we Black women have as a whole about this. And we as Black women unfortunately perpetually feed this machine.

That is why we are perpetually chasing the perfect technique for a "wash 'n' go," which is really code for "doing what it takes to make it look like I have biracial hair," because for most of us, a literal "wash 'n' go" results in a dull, shrunken Afro. That's why we buy stuff that looks to me like clear shoe polish to rub onto our scalps and call it "edge control." That's why I had to be reminded the hard way a few weeks ago that the stuff I use to make my hair appear straight is the same stuff that they sell as "Nair" and "Drano" for purposes that have nothing to do with healthy hair. And that's why I can walk out the door and encounter roughly 3/4 of the Black women I see wearing stuff on their heads that I or most other people would not deem acceptable for a Halloween costume or a cosplay convention and think they look cute, or at least better than how they would look with their own hair.

If we are still in a place where Traycee from KISS77 is on the verge of tears because she has decided to go natural because she doesn't want to deal with her 4c hair, than we still have a very long way to go in terms of love, self acceptance, and learning to truly appreciate all the diversity we encompass in the Diaspora.

 

[MileHighDiva]

Mainstream society and popular brands may never embrace my texture as being just as beautiful as looser textures (I really don't expect them to) but what really matters is that I do and others with my texture do the same.

do my job on a local personal level to inspire others

Thanks was not enough!

 

[NaturallyATLPCH]

I just watched the video. I don't think it's too bad. I was actually laughing.

But to the poster that made the comments about Curly Nikki featuring people in her blog with looser curl patterns, I see what you are saying.

I even looked through some of her Show and Tell Fierce Friday curlies and noticed they all had similar looser curl types. Hmmmmm...

Oh, and NappyRina, hey hair twin! Gorgeous tresses!

 

[Foxglove]

I follow CurlyNikki on FB and have not seen 4b/c pic featured in her posts on my feed. Don't know if I was absent the day she posted a b/c hair type, but I've been waiting for a while and have yet to see one.

Black Girl with Long Hair is more inclusive of more textures and actually I would say features more type 4s than type 3's. She also features a good number of 4b's and 4c's, more than anybody else I've seen in major blog land

 

[NaturallyATLPCH]

Black Girl with Long Hair is more inclusive of more textures and actually I would say features more type 4s than type 3's. She also features a good number of 4b's and 4c's, more than anybody else I've seen in major blog land

I was going to mention this Foxglove.

 

[lamaria211]

Excellent!!

 

[Joigirl]

There has always been divisiveness in our community relating to hair and skin tone. I think it is good that we can have a conversation on this topic and remind people that we don't have to play into the stereotypes. I still hear the "good hair" comment all the time between naturals and relaxed AAs alike.

When I first started watching YouTube videos, I wanted to find someone with hair just like mine. I'm still searching... I started expanding to those with tighter and looser textures that taught me something new. I think that is true for most NHC viewers.

I've seen a few of her videos in the past and her attitude turned me off. She is not as successful because she is not that fun and entertaining to watch. I toyed around with the idea of doing YouTube videos but decided against it because, I can't style worth crap and nobody wants to watch me do the same style over and over again. You have to be charismatic to draw people in. Its probably not her hair that is the issue.

There is just as much unconscious discrimination to naturals that are 40 and older. I only see young and beautiful naturals getting the accolades, but this is true in society as a whole.

 

[PJaye]

I'm not a YT or blog person, but when I research product/tool reviews, the feedback I receive is overwhelmingly from so-called type 4 haired individuals. It has never occurred to me to minimize or discount their experiences and conclusions because their hair wasn't like mine.

Off Topic: She's giving me Keke Wyatt vibes (e.g., sarcastic, expletive-laden fast talk with constant eye rolling and stank face); I had to suppress the urge to punch her in her face.

 

[*Frisky*]

I think she's bitter because she feels like she deserves more views on youtube, when really that isn't the case. I just don't think it has anything to do with hair, but the fact that she isn't very likable in MY opinion.

Nikkimae for example, she has kinky hair, I would call it 4b/4c. She has a lot of subscribers and over all is just way more likable.

This and she is like this in person. How are you trying to be a popular vlogger but give stank attitude when people want to take pics with you. It goes with the territory. I don't like how she sounds like she is entitled to all this notoriety because of how many subscribers she has yada yada yada. Alot of people don't want to have to deal with that and is probably the main reason she doesn't get all these invites she thinks she deserves to get for events.

 

[krissyhair]

Her article was very well written and she made some good points. If we all realize that women with different kinky and curly hair textures have good advice to offer everyone, regardless of hair type, then we may get over this hump. I have very curly hair but I enjoy watching kinky textured hair videos.

One thing I do notice is that friends and family don't take my hair advice seriously because I have a more baby-fine texture. That could be some cause of the problem too.

Did she say in her video that she didn't get as much love and attention as other natural hair bloggers? Because this girl is featured all over the dang place. She was the main attraction at a very large natural hair event in D.C. last summer.

 

[Mahogony7]

This whole debate is one of the reasons why I don't like or follow the hair typing system. I think YOU should try what YOU want to. Yes, reviews are wonderful and help you from making mistakes, but there are times when you just have to take the plunge and risk.

I can't identify with where she is coming from because I very rarely buy any of the natural hair care products talked about on this forum. I live in Japan and mainly use Japanese products and my hair is thriving, thriving! I think we sometimes put limitations on what to use and what not to use in our mind.

At one point in time I like Jouelzy's vids, but then, she just started to seem a bit brass. Making videos about how she doesn't understand how some YT folks have so many followers when their vids suck. Then there was that vid she did with a glass of wine talking about how things or people piss her off. Sometimes she goes a bit too far. I honestly think that she is pissed about her lack of subscribers.

If she come onto YT with the intent of making money, she should have done more research. YT is in many ways based on the superficial and not always on content. You also have to be personable and not stank, which jouelzy can be at times.

I think that her regimen just never really worked for her hair. When I watched some of her vids I always thought her hair looked so dry. And I think it came down to the products and her techniques. I just wanted her to come to the forum and look at some DC threads and pick up a few bottles of Aubrey because that stuff is the truth and isn't directly marketed at one hair type. Well there are some who think its only for white folks.

I see Youtubers with hair similar to Jouelzy's and it's cute and moisturized and they seem to be having a good time. My hair is somewhat similar to Joueslys and I have bounce and shine. I guess Im just not knee deep into the whole natural hair community, so maybe that's why it doesn't upset me so much.

 

[BlaqKitty]

This whole debate is one of the reasons why I don't like or follow the hair typing system. I think YOU should try what YOU want to. Yes, reviews are wonderful and help you from making mistakes, but there are times when you just have to take the plunge and risk.

I can't identify with where she is coming from because I very rarely buy any of the natural hair care products talked about on this forum. I live in Japan and mainly use Japanese products and my hair is thriving, thriving! I think we sometimes put limitations on what to use and what not to use in our mind.

At one point in time I like Jouelzy's vids, but then, she just started to seem a bit brass. Making videos about how she doesn't understand how some YT folks have so many followers when their vids suck. Then there was that vid she did with a glass of wine talking about how things or people piss her off. Sometimes she goes a bit too far. I honestly think that she is pissed about her lack of subscribers.

If she come onto YT with the intent of making money, she should have done more research. YT is in many ways based on the superficial and not always on content. You also have to be personable and not stank, which jouelzy can be at times.

I think that her regimen just never really worked for her hair. When I watched some of her vids I always thought her hair looked so dry. And I think it came down to the products and her techniques. I just wanted her to come to the forum and look at some DC threads and pick up a few bottles of Aubrey because that stuff is the truth and isn't directly marketed at one hair type. Well there are some who think its only for white folks.

I see Youtubers with hair similar to Jouelzy's and it's cute and moisturized and they seem to be having a good time. My hair is somewhat similar to Joueslys and I have bounce and shine. I guess Im just not knee deep into the whole natural hair community, so maybe that's why it doesn't upset me so much.

I'm envious because you live in Japan.

 

[Mahogony7]

See, I was done with this until I read your post.

IIRC, the original hair typing system did not leave much room for black women at all. Anyone else remember that? It was like: 1, 2, 3a, 3b, and 4. I think that's right. (I think it came out in like 1997 or so.)And the 4 looked like Rachel True - not a hair type many people at the time associated with black women. All of the models that were used for type 4 were curly haired bi/multi racial women.

Andre only changed his system as more black women went natural, and because black women created the 4a, b, and c categories. He didn't do that! There was no way I was going to embrace that system. It was a set up from the start.

This whole system has become a device used to divide black women. Something that was so awesome - black women embracing and loving their natural selves - is becoming something ugly.

ETA: I think that the 3c category was added to the system, not an original part of this system.

Mmm Hmmm. And how many more petty things do we need to divide us amongst ourselves?! Hell next it will probably be eyebrows or some other nonsense.

 

[ckisland]

This and she is like this in person. How are you trying to be a popular vlogger but give stank attitude when people want to take pics with you. It goes with the territory. I don't like how she sounds like she is entitled to all this notoriety because of how many subscribers she has yada yada yada. Alot of people don't want to have to deal with that and is probably the main reason she doesn't get all these invites she thinks she deserves to get for events.

I've tried watching her before, and I just can't. For me, her hair texture isn't the problem at all . But how in the world does she think that she deserves to be sent products?! She couldn't afford to buy products, so a company better send her some . I can't believe she actually let that come out of her mouth. Most of the youtubers I've watched were purchasing their own products, and doing reviews long before anyone was sponsoring them. She apparently hasn't noticed that there are a lot of naturals on Youtube. And the vast majority of them aren't sponsored. If I was company only handing free products to a couple of vloggers, she wouldn't make it on my top 15 for a list of reasons.

I think it's interesting that ladies are feeling that there aren't enough youtubers who do styles besides wash n'gos. Most naturals on youtube do twistout, twists, updo, braidout, not wash n'go style videos . They may also do a wash n'go video here and there, but the majority are other styles. I remember the same sentiment on the other site, but it was to the point that wanting to wear a wash n'go was villainized erplexed. Y'all must not know how hard it is to find someone who's not a 3a/3b, or doing twistouts while calling it a wash n'go , doing wash n'gos regularly . If you don't want to do a wash n'go, you're not out of luck. Just click on any of the 50-11 videos that aren't

 

[EssenceOfBeauty]

Black Girl with Long Hair is more inclusive of more textures and actually I would say features more type 4s than type 3's. She also features a good number of 4b's and 4c's, more than anybody else I've seen in major blog land

Leila is pretty awesome and was nice enough to feature me, and I have hair on the kinkier end of the spectrum.


As for Jouelzy...I get where she is coming from. There is a hierarchy in the natural hair community...the kinkier the hair, the lower the rung or so it seems.

I made the decision to love what I have and work it...regardless what anyone else thinks. *Kanye shrug*

 

[uofmpanther]

Black Girl with Long Hair is more inclusive of more textures and actually I would say features more type 4s than type 3's. She also features a good number of 4b's and 4c's, more than anybody else I've seen in major blog land

ITA! I drool over a lot of the 4 heads featured on BGLH.

 

[kandake]

I think her real issue is that she's still not comfortable with her hair. And she seems really bitter about it.

My hair is 4b. When wet, 90% of it is just a mass of hair with no curl in sight. I realized that very early on and started doing things that worked for my texture. I followed people with my hair type, and there are quite a few out there. Now, I do watch ladies with varying textures cause I just like hair in general. But common sense tells me that I'm not going to get 3c curls with some kinky curly. And that's ok. I don't concern myself with curling products. They aren't meant for me. And there's an equal amount of moisturizers and twisting butters for kinky hair types. So I don't really know about the comment about the market focusing more on curly hair and curling products.

I do believe there's a hierarchy. It didn't just go away cause people went natural. People still believe in "good hair" no matter how much we try to banish that phrase.

Re: her issue with followers. I have seen a few of her videos and I never felt compelled to subscribe because she doesn't seem all that likeable.

 

[silverbuttons]

I think we can all nitpick about things we don't like about her, but overall there is a bigger issue at play. Going natural doesn't erase the bias to looser curls and lighter skin.

 

[Marand13]

I kind of agree with her to a certain extent but at the same time why do we make race and hair texture such an issue. I mean when I am watching someone on youtube I am not watching because they are similar to me, I watch because I like the content that they put out!

I actually just found her page the other day and have been watching some of her videos and I do like that she is very opinionated but that could be off putting to many people.

Me personally, I post videos not for views but because I want to. I like putting stuff up on youtube and if someone doesn't like watching because of my hair texture or skin color or whatever, then oh well!! Watch someone else! There are plenty of people out there!

Companies hire models with hair that is pleasing to the eye to most people. Many people see those photos of the girls with the 3 type hair and think that if they buy said product their hair will look like that. That is called advertising....

Anyway, all that to basically say I really don't think its that serious. People are shallow and thats never going to change. We are becoming more open minded as a whole but there is always going to be some type of discrimination. Its just human nature.

 

[BlaqKitty]

I do agree that the natural community has a hierarchy... You know what's at the top of it? No hair type, just long hair. Nobody cares if your hair is 4c when it's BSL+. Literally no one.

 

[Amarilles]

Jouelzy herself explains that her personality isn't for everyone and that her writing is much more accessible, as are her tutorial videos because her personality takes a backseat. It's not about her not fully accepting her texture, in my opinion is all the contrary and she wants to open up eyes as to what is her texture versus what it's not. As per her videos, she's been there done that with trying to make her hair do what it naturally doesn't.

I personally understand where she's coming from. She's saying that it takes work to put out quality videos (as far as lighting, camera, technique, etc), it takes work and dedication to acquire a large amount of subscribers and views, yet she isn't compensated in the same way some people with a lesser quality and less subscribers/views might. She blames this on a texture preference. She isn't talking about no love period for type 4 YouTubers IMO, she's saying that quality + numbers should be yielding something greater. It should be math, it shouldn't be a texture preference.

But then again, I adore me some Jouelzy and I follow her very regularly. I get her.

 

[Keen]

I get the same sentiment from some posters in here as I get from some Caucasians who think racism is all in black people head. Sometimes you have to experience certain things or feelings to really understand. As a 4C I can totally relate.

 

[BostonMaria]

I get the same sentiment from some posters in here as I get from some Caucasians who think racism is all in black people head. Sometimes you have to experience certain things or feelings to really understand. As a 4C I can totally relate.

I'm 3C and feel frustrated with my hair and feel like all these products are for 4A hair.... but I'm probably seeing things from my perspective only so I do believe the article.

Don't know who this lady is but giving up isn't the solution.

 

[Embyra]

I'm 3C and feel frustrated with my hair and feel like all these products are for 4A hair....

Interesting what do you think is missing for your hair type that type 4s are getting ?

 

[CodeRed]

Anyway, all that to basically say I really don't think its that serious. People are shallow and thats never going to change. We are becoming more open minded as a whole but there is always going to be some type of discrimination. Its just human nature.

Yep. That's the crux of the human condition and why most debates (or all) on any kind of entertainment/beauty/media board happen.

 

[BostonMaria]

Interesting what do you think is missing for your hair type that type 4s are getting ?

I go on YouTube and I feel like all the videos are catered to 4a hair. I try products and I've yet to find a holy grail so I'm assuming it's not for my hair type., maybe it's for 4a hair. This is just from my perspective. I'm not saying that the article is wrong. Just saying that from my end I don't think I have it that good.

 

[CaraWalker]

my hair is 3c/4aish and almost none of the youtube videos i come across have hair that looks like mine... but why ima cry about it? idgi

 

[oneastrocurlie]

I do agree that the natural community has a hierarchy... You know what's at the top of it? No hair type, just long hair. Nobody cares if your hair is 4c when it's BSL+. Literally no one.

Ain't that the truth.

 

[BostonMaria]

Hold up...
She has 80K subscribers!!! Why is she complaining that nobody watches her channel?

I personally won't subscribe to her channel, but not because of her hair type (actually her hair is very pretty) just don't like the way she talks. I like my vloggers to be warm and fuzzy LOL she seems a little crass. Whatever she's doing its working because its getting attention.

I do agree that the natural community has a hierarchy... You know what's at the top of it? No hair type, just long hair. Nobody cares if your hair is 4c when it's BSL+. Literally no one.

I will admit that if the vlogger has had short hair for 3 years and doesn't seem to grow.. I don't care if she's a 3C (Taren) I will unsubscribe and not pay any mind to her.

 

[tinkat]

She is not complaining about the subscribers, it's more so the double standard in the natural hair community and how woman of kinkier textures are not being represented enough particularly in the media.

Wait, be positive, keep believing, and all will surely be yours. Sent from my iPhone using LHCF