Miss Jessie's and other offenders rant

[Cherokee-n-Black]

I just have to say that these "curly hair" entrepreneurs are really irking me with the whole "crossover" thing. Seen the latest ad for Quick Curls? I'm not saying this girl is white, but reeeeeally close--and she's definitely not black. Go on the website, and I came away with the conclusion that Miss Jessie's is a salon for the care of texlaxed hair. A silkener??? Come on! Call it what it is!!! The sad part is, they're even "silkening" the white folks hair! There really IS no such thing as "good hair!"

My dear Curls.biz's model of choice on their website is straight up white and blonde. And there is not a 4b head to be found anywhere in the "model" pics for their products.

So what gives? Why are these product makers insisting that their products are also effective for 4+ hair (and all up in our websites for women of color) when their ads say something completely different? More to the point, I'm getting the distinct "this is what pretty is" vibe from these ads/web pics.

I haven't seen much on here re: hair rules, but the one thing I like about A. Dickie is that he is inclusive of Type 4 hair and really reaches out to this demographic through the demo vids and live appearances. I don't know if his products work, but at least SOMEONE out there is saying you don't have to be biracial or texlaxed (or just not black) to use my products!

 

[Your Cheeziness]

I get what you're saying and this has come up before, but I just don't believe African American women are the only demographic who wants to control their curls. Women (and men) of many different races have curly/textured hair that has it's own share of woes. If Miss Jessie's wants to expand their market, more power to them. There are too many product lines around to be worried about what one chooses to do.

 

[tatiana]

I can not speak for Miss Jessie but with Curls their target customer has always been since the beginning time was white mothers of biracial children and biracials.

As time went on, black women started going natural and ask will it work for their hair. It worked for some and not worked for others.

Being a business person she saw a secondary customer the black woman. However white women was always the primary customer for Curls.

 

[sikora]

I get what you're saying and this has come up before, but I just don't believe African American women are the only demographic who wants to control their curls. Women (and men) of many different races have curly/textured hair that has it's own share of woes. If Miss Jessie's wants to expand their market, more power to them. There are too many product lines around to be worried about what one chooses to do.

Agreed. People don't go into business for "thanks." Their goal is to make money. I personally don't use Miss J
essie's products because I dislike (what I perceive to be) their philosophy, but I don't fault them for marketing themselves to different textures/ races.

 

[Leeda.the.Paladin]

If you go to NC.com you will see a ton of white ladies that want to wear their curls and they get just as much into products as a lot of us on this board.

These companies have always catered to them, as far as I have seen. I mean, I'm looking at an ad on my sidebar right now for Miss Jessie's and there's 2 black women and a white redhead...all with curly hair.

They are just trying to make money on all of the demographics that their products would be used by *shrug*

 

[nzeee]

i get what you're saying. ms jessies might not be the best example since i'm not certain if the founders would identify as 'black' anyway but i think your point is that they started out by marketing directly to 'us' and now that they have some amount of success they're 'crossing over' and aggressively marketing outside of the black community.

i don't find anything wrong w/ getting more marketshare, but if they (the universal they) gained success through marketing to black females of all stripes (including dark skinned women) then they should have enough faith to continue to show us in advertising and let the other groups pick it up if they choose. i don't get down on aussie for not showing enough black girls. i'm not their market. but that doesn't prevent me and tons of other 4bs from at least trying their products.

IMO it's the typical thing where people feel white or very light skin is universal and reaches a broad market but dark skin is somehow indicative of a niche product. it's lazy advertising. but we live in a racist society so it definitely works. they will get more people if they move away from the image of a niche product and more towards the universal image (white). and it's not like they'll loose their existing black customers or people w/ the propensity to use their product. so it's a win win really.

#sadbuttrue

 

[Simply_elle]

To bite that "Well it's always been for..." quip in the Azs....

Look at the models for the "natural" lines from kera care and mizani... That is NOT the hair I think the "target" demographic has and looky there, they have always been a "black folks hair" product line...The ladies look telaxed..or silkened.

Whatever people.

 

[Cherokee-n-Black]

I can not speak for Miss Jessie but with Curls their target customer has always been since the beginning time was white mothers of biracial children and biracials.

As time went on, black women started going natural and ask will it work for their hair. It worked for some and not worked for others.

Being a business person she saw a secondary customer the black woman. However white women was always the primary customer for Curls.

OK, I *kinda* get this, but, have you looked at the graphics on the Curly Q's products? They are dark brown, kinky haired drawings of children. If you go on the website, she will insist that the products can also be used effectively on type 4 hair, with nary a model in sight to demo. In fact, they posted a YouTube vid of a very nice lady using a couple of their products--but no actual "styled" gussied-up models.

Miss Jessie's claims to be an authority on curls KINKS and waves. But given that "kinky" is the natural state of the hair, they are now the authority on making the hair "not kinky" through texlaxing and are now the authority on curly whites??? I remember when Miss Jessie's first came out, and that was not the snake oil they were sellin'.

It seems to me that the "natural" trend is veering away from enhancing the natural texture of black hair to this "not quite as black" or "not black" ideal. I realize that we are not monolithic and that women of color have all types of hair and need all types of tailored regimens, but it seems the focus is shifting. Then again, perhaps it's just the gradual progression from bone-straight to curly, but not kinky?

 

[Cherokee-n-Black]

...but we live in a racist society so it definitely works. they will get more people if they move away from the image of a niche product and more towards the universal image (white). and it's not like they'll loose their existing black customers or people w/ the propensity to use their product. so it's a win win really.

#sadbuttrue

Mmph. good point. erplexed It just underscores how far we have to go as a society...just irks me raising up a child in this mess. These images are in the media and the media is now all up in everything we do--TV, phone, computer, subway, billboard...ugh!

 

[hair_rehab]

I don't see it as any different than Pantene (which was usually marketed to non-blacks) coming out with the relaxed and natural line.

 

[nzeee]

^^^the difference is that if it's not a new line, if they are marketing the same product in a different way to a visibly different target then it's a completely different thing actually...

(i'm bored at work today... hahaha. i'm gonna be all up in this thread ;o)

 

[Lynnerie]

I can't be offended cause Miss Jessie's has always been a proponent for curls vs. kinks and when you think about it most of these companies with curl enhancing products are the same way. Miss Jessie's is a business, why wouldn't they market to other races with curly hair?

Oh where is this ad you're referring to by the way. I went to their site and I still see black women.

 

[Dposh167]

I don't see it as any different than Pantene (which was usually marketed to non-blacks) coming out with the relaxed and natural line.

I don't know if i could use pantene as an example. Their relaxed line is an extension of their current line. Pantene always marketed to white. And when they extended a blk line they still kept their core white images on their regular line. Op is talking about an entire image changing on their products. Going from blk faces to other. Without any continuation of the original faces.

But I can just say that curls.biz always rotated their images on the site. And their white faces still don't compete with the blk faces they portray. So I can't say I think they are selling out

Sent from my ADR6350 using ADR6350

 

[EllePixie]

They are just trying to make money, and I think we have all known for quite some time that Miss Jessie's is on that bull ish. However, I've had convos with some of the owners of curly hair brands, and they've even told me that a majority of their customers are white women, so why would they focus so hard on catering to black women with type 4 hair? From a business standpoint, it wouldn't make sense.

 

[Vashti]

Well Miss Jessie's isn't the only hair product line for black women. There are plenty of quality hair care products out there for us these days. If a company is doing something that irks/offends you in some way, take your business elsewhere. Simple as that.

 

[AHeadOfCoils]

It's a business. Curl Junkie is owned by a type 3c/4a black woman, but according to her website, the majority of her products are marketed toward those with type 2 and bigger curls. I only see a few items that she recommends for type 3c-4c hair. I can totally understand the marketing and production strategies.

 

[Cherokee-n-Black]

Well Miss Jessie's isn't the only hair product line for black women. There are plenty of quality hair care products out there for us these days. If a company is doing something that irks/offends you in some way, take your business elsewhere. Simple as that.

Not exactly a newsflash. My rant is more of a commentary about the industry itself and the messages that they send in their advertising and marketing. I also have a hard time believing that all of a sudden, white women are a bigger market than the largest worldwide consumers of hair products (black women). Hey, I get that business is business, but as poochie rightly pointed out, when white manufacturers branch out to black products, they keep the white core and still market to them with images that reflect the intended users.

I think what really did it for me was going to Ricky's and seeing the pamphlet for Miss Jessie's with a white woman on the cover. No matter how much Pantene wants to pump up it's black market, You will still click a couple of times to get to "relaxed and natural" if you go to Pantene.com. I just think it's sad that even african american business owners in the natural hair market feel the need to inundate us with images that don't reflect natural black hair.

 

[Cherokee-n-Black]

I can't be offended cause Miss Jessie's has always been a proponent for curls vs. kinks and when you think about it most of these companies with curl enhancing products are the same way. Miss Jessie's is a business, why wouldn't they market to other races with curly hair?

Oh where is this ad you're referring to by the way. I went to their site and I still see black women.

NY Subway--all over NYC. And when I go to the site, I get a cycle of shots of the ad, the founders, and a red-headed white woman. I'm not sure if people are missing the point, or getting it and saying "so...?" Which is fine.

Bottom line, if this is the direction of their marketing, it indicates to me that this is the direction of their product development, and I think that is a shame.

ETA: I also had an interesting experience the other week with a "supernatural" sista who was very into natural haircare and giving me allll sorts of advice. She told me she went to Diane DaCosta who she considered to be the foremost expert on natural black hair care "she's written all these books, etc..., etc..., etc..." I find the woman's site, and the very first thing I see is her putting a texturizer in someone's head.

 

[Your Cheeziness]

I thought they were marketing to all types of textured hair, regardless of race. Supply and demand.

 

[Cherokee-n-Black]

I thought they were marketing to all types of textured hair, regardless of race. Supply and demand.

Indeed. But you don't see any white manufacturers suddenly using black models to promote their products, even though we are steadily using them. I'm still waiting for Alberto VO5 to come on this site and realize they should start marketing "Conditioner Washes" to black women.

 

[tatiana]

OK, I *kinda* get this, but, have you looked at the graphics on the Curly Q's products? They are dark brown, kinky haired drawings of children. If you go on the website, she will insist that the products can also be used effectively on type 4 hair, with nary a model in sight to demo. In fact, they posted a YouTube vid of a very nice lady using a couple of their products--but no actual "styled" gussied-up models.

Miss Jessie's claims to be an authority on curls KINKS and waves. But given that "kinky" is the natural state of the hair, they are now the authority on making the hair "not kinky" through texlaxing and are now the authority on curly whites??? I remember when Miss Jessie's first came out, and that was not the snake oil they were sellin'.

It seems to me that the "natural" trend is veering away from enhancing the natural texture of black hair to this "not quite as black" or "not black" ideal. I realize that we are not monolithic and that women of color have all types of hair and need all types of tailored regimens, but it seems the focus is shifting. Then again, perhaps it's just the gradual progression from bone-straight to curly, but not kinky?

True, packaging may be misleading but this is a mom and pop shop. She may not had the money or drawing abilities to depict what she wanted to depict. I would say it is a step up from the plain white bottles she used to have. However if you read the regimens and her articles you can tell her products are geared towards types 3b and 3c.

You have to read in between the lines with Curls. For example, read the tip for Curly Q Custard Curl Cream for thick, kinky hair. She is not going to say 4b instead she says Poofy. She gives instructions for a braid out without calling it a braid out.

Miss Jessies has always been misleading with their "Kinks to curls" message. Even with them, if you read some of their write ups, they describe doing a twist out or braidout for certain hair types.

To be honest with you, I personally think defined Natural curls is in not natural hair, per se. It has been this way for a *few* years now.

 

[Your Cheeziness]

Indeed. But you don't see any white manufacturers suddenly using black models to promote their products, even though we are steadily using them. I'm still waiting for Alberto VO5 to come on this site and realize they should start marketing "Conditioner Washes" to black women.

Good point. But, those companies are on a much larger scale and more established than MJ. I feel that have to use advertising to say, "Hey, we're black and have a largely black clientele, but our stuff works for you, too."

 

[Cherokee-n-Black]

To be honest with you, I personally think defined Natural curls is in not natural hair, per se. It has been this way for a *few* years now.

Welll...according to Truvy in Steel Magnolia's, "There's no such thing as natural beauty." LOL I personally think that alteration of the hair--whether it is braids, locs, relaxing, curl defining, etc...is cultural, and not just since colonization and slavery. It's a form of expression that African people have engaged in for centuries. I don't think it's "wrong to relax" or texlax, or anything else. I do however, think it's wrong to demonize natural black hair and to say that the only way to style it is to straighten it with chemicals and/or heat.

It just seems to me that more and more women are choosing to go chemical free and wear their natural (Type 4) curls, and the product market--and products don't seem to be following the trend.