Word from the Wise

[Seeking8Rights]

Lately, I have been really considering going back to a lye relaxer! I've been racking my brain, so finally I decided to call my friend (who used to do my hair back in the day) who owns a hair salon (she has owned her own shop since a few years graduating from high school) to get her opinion on switching from a no-lye to lye. She is a very straight forward, no lie type of gal and she said this:

"Babe (she always calls me babe), whether it's no lye or lye it is all the same thing just different type of lye. And actually lye relaxers are better because it provides more moisture than the other. But above all that, it's not about the relaxer, it really about your conditioner and making sure you are using moisturizing conditioner. That's the most important thing regarding black hair care period. So yes, you can get a lye relaxer, and be fine just make sure when you relax you condition the hair before neutralizing. Rinse the relaxer out, then apply conditioner and sit under the dryer for 10 or 15 minutes, then neutralize. And personally, I don't like Affirm relaxer system, it drys the hair too much."

So, I reconfirmed whether or not I would have breakage because of a switch and she confirmed with a no.

Also she said that it's not good on the hair to go longer than 12 weeks post relaxers. If you do, you need to moisturize daily but don't go that long if I don't have to.

SO, I am sooooooo tempted!

What do you ladies think?

Decisions....Decisions....Decisions.....:scratchch

 

[motherx2esq]

Lately, I have been really considering going back to a lye relaxer! I've been racking my brain, so finally I decided to call my friend (who used to do my hair back in the day) who owns a hair salon (she has owned her own shop since a few years graduating from high school) to get her opinion on switching from a no-lye to lye. She is a very straight forward, no lie type of gal and she said this:

"Babe (she always calls me babe), whether it's no lye or lye it is all the same thing just different type of lye. And actually lye relaxers are better because it provides more moisture than the other. But above all that, it's not about the relaxer, it really about your conditioner and making sure you are using moisturizing conditioner. That's the most important thing regarding black hair care period. So yes, you can get a lye relaxer, and be fine just make sure when you relax you condition the hair before neutralizing. Rinse the relaxer out, then apply conditioner and sit under the dryer for 10 or 15 minutes, then neutralize. And personally, I don't like Affirm relaxer system, it drys the hair too much."

So, I reconfirmed whether or not I would have breakage because of a switch and she confirmed with a no.

Also she said that it's not good on the hair to go longer than 12 weeks post relaxers. If you do, you need to moisturize daily but don't go that long if I don't have to.

SO, I am sooooooo tempted!

What do you ladies think?

Decisions....Decisions....Decisions.....:scratchch

Did she say why not to go longer than 12 weeks? Why would it hurt to go longer. I've heard others say to condition then wash. That is so interesting. I think I will start doing that at my next relaxer. I use no lye; have for years because I always seemed to burn myself with lye. lol Let us know which you choose. Good luck!

 

[Chromia]

I use lye (Mizani mild). The directions on the container say to either condition, then neutralize or neutralize, then condition. I've always done the latter. I've read posts here where some ladies have mentioned that they condition first, though.

One of my friends told me that she doesn't like Affirm. She used it for a while, but she switched to Design Essentials.

 

[PrettyBrownEyes]

I like the advice that she gave to you. She reminds me of this stylist I had in high school that brought my damaged hair to a condition I had never seen before, really healthy and thrived.

As far as not going to long without a touch-up well, you will learn on here (LHCF) that quite a few ladies oppose that frame of thought, however, I agree with not waiting to too long. I was taught that the longer you wait the more chances of experiencing breakage due to the two different textures. See, as you comb you would be combing/brushing through two different textures and the relaxed part is weaker than the new growth, so just imagine you are using more pressure to comb through the new growth and by the time your comb/brush glides down to the relaxed part you are probably applying too much tension.

My recommendation is if you want to stretch use protective styles to wear you aren't having to manipulate your hair much.

I liked Design Essentials when I had it applied on my hair, just haven't found another stylist who uses it. I only use Lye relaxers they work best for my hair.

 

[Seeking8Rights]

Did she say why not to go longer than 12 weeks? Why would it hurt to go longer. I've heard others say to condition then wash. That is so interesting. I think I will start doing that at my next relaxer. I use no lye; have for years because I always seemed to burn myself with lye. lol Let us know which you choose. Good luck!

No she didn't say why! When I told her that I am planning to relax post 14 weeks and she was like "No babe, No babe, No"
She's one of those kinds of people who if you ask why too many times make you feel like you need to go crawl under a rock.

 

[Seeking8Rights]

I like the advice that she gave to you. She reminds me of this stylist I had in high school that brought my damaged hair to a condition I had never seen before, really healthy and thrived.

As far as not going to long without a touch-up well, you will learn on here (LHCF) that quite a few ladies oppose that frame of thought, however, I agree with not waiting to too long. I was taught that the longer you wait the more chances of experiencing breakage due to the two different textures. See, as you comb you would be combing/brushing through two different textures and the relaxed part is weaker than the new growth, so just imagine you are using more pressure to comb through the new growth and by the time your comb/brush glides down to the relaxed part you are probably applying too much tension.

My recommendation is if you want to stretch use protective styles to wear you aren't having to manipulate your hair much.

I liked Design Essentials when I had it applied on my hair, just haven't found another stylist who uses it. I only use Lye relaxers they work best for my hair.

Wow thank you! What your saying makes sense about the stretching and the combing part.

I'm really pulling towards the lye relaxer...

 

[beana]

I know im late but this sounds like really good basic/fundamental advice. Its actually the blueprint for my latest haircare regimen.. relax every 10-12 weeks with design essentials (lye) and make sure my hair is moisturized properly.

 

[YoungWavey]

Lately, I have been really considering going back to a lye relaxer! I've been racking my brain, so finally I decided to call my friend (who used to do my hair back in the day) who owns a hair salon (she has owned her own shop since a few years graduating from high school) to get her opinion on switching from a no-lye to lye. She is a very straight forward, no lie type of gal and she said this:

"Babe (she always calls me babe), whether it's no lye or lye it is all the same thing just different type of lye. And actually lye relaxers are better because it provides more moisture than the other. But above all that, it's not about the relaxer, it really about your conditioner and making sure you are using moisturizing conditioner. That's the most important thing regarding black hair care period. So yes, you can get a lye relaxer, and be fine just make sure when you relax you condition the hair before neutralizing. Rinse the relaxer out, then apply conditioner and sit under the dryer for 10 or 15 minutes, then neutralize. And personally, I don't like Affirm relaxer system, it drys the hair too much."

So, I reconfirmed whether or not I would have breakage because of a switch and she confirmed with a no.

Also she said that it's not good on the hair to go longer than 12 weeks post relaxers. If you do, you need to moisturize daily but don't go that long if I don't have to.

SO, I am sooooooo tempted!

What do you ladies think?

Decisions....Decisions....Decisions.....:scratchch

I wish i would have seen this sooner. I can't wait until Dec.(when i get my third touch-up for the year) so i can use Mizani lye relaxers...Just one question with using a conditioner first does it have to be a neutralizing conditoner or just a regular conditioner then a neutralizing shampoo???

 

[vandidix]

OK - so relax, then condition for 10-15 min with a moisturizing conditioner, then neutralize? Got it.

That's the second relaxer tip I've gotten from LHCF - in time for my next relaxer on 8/17. I'll be 12 weeks post. The other one from another thread is to add oil to the relaxer to help slow the process. Does any one else do that?

 

[YoungWavey]

OK - so relax, then condition for 10-15 min with a moisturizing conditioner, then neutralize? Got it.

That's the second relaxer tip I've gotten from LHCF - in time for my next relaxer on 8/17. I'll be 12 weeks post. The other one from another thread is to add oil to the relaxer to help slow the process. Does any one else do that?

I was going to try this tomorrow

 

[vandidix]

I was going to try this tomorrow

Cool! Let us know how it turns out!

 

[Sistaslick]

. Rinse the relaxer out, then apply conditioner and sit under the dryer for 10 or 15 minutes, then neutralize.

Did she tell you why you need to sit under the dryer for 10-15 minutes? :scratchch That's quite a long time to have conditioner on the hair if you are trying to bring the pH of your hair down enough to return the hair to normal. :scratchch

Also she said that it's not good on the hair to go longer than 12 weeks post relaxers. If you do, you need to moisturize daily but don't go that long if I don't have to.

Yeah, most stylists say this (usually something more often though) because they have bills to pay.

 

[Aidenberry03]

What if it is a neutralizing conditioner

Did she tell you why you need to sit under the dryer for 10-15 minutes? :scratchch That's quite a long time to have conditioner on the hair if you are trying to bring the pH of your hair down enough to return the hair to normal. :scratchch



Yeah, most stylists say this (usually something more often though) because they have bills to pay.

 

[Jetblackhair]

Ladies do most people relax, neutralize and then condition? I'm natural now, but that's how it was done on my hair in the past which didn't seem to work so well.

But I'm wondering if you relax, condition and then neutralize, could the straightening process still be working in your hair during the conditioner phase? I thought the neutralizer stops the action of the relaxer and that's why it's done before conditioning.

Interesting information keclee23...do you want to go back to LYE because it's less drying on the hair?

 

[**WonderWoman**]

I've been using lye relaxers for most of my years, but recently a new stylist put no-lye relaxer on my hair & my hair's been soaking up crazy moisture & still remains dry . No more no-lyes for me.

As far as stretching, i think it depends on your hair type. And like someone mentioned, if you're stretching with moisturizing & no/low manipulation, there is should very little problems, if not any.

 

[msjones]

Ladies do most people relax, neutralize and then condition? I'm natural now, but that's how it was done on my hair in the past which didn't seem to work so well.

But I'm wondering if you relax, condition and then neutralize, could the straightening process still be working in your hair during the conditioner phase? I thought the neutralizer stops the action of the relaxer and that's why it's done before conditioning.

Interesting information keclee23...do you want to go back to LYE because it's less drying on the hair?

Since water has a neutral PH level of 7, you are already bringing down the basic level of the relaxer by rinsing. The conditioner will bring the PH level down as well. Your hair at this point, should not be breaking down the hair as fast, but I really wouldn't recommend sitting under the dryer for that long before neutralizing.

Also, its beneficial to condition before neutralizing because the hairshaft is still open/porous, allowing moisture to get in easier. After neutralizing, the hair shaft is closed. (the PH level of the relaxer opens the hair shaft in order to break protein strands of the hair down.

Also, make sure you use a protein con before neutralizing (no longer than 3-5 mins)....and then a moisturizing DC after neutralizing for as long as needed-- I DC w/ my conditioner along w/ my oils for about 45 mins.

...that's about the only thing that stuck in my brain from Chemistry class....PH levels....

 

[Sistaslick]

What if it is a neutralizing conditioner

Neutralizing/Normalizing conditioners are fine, but most people still follow them with a neutralizing shampoo because the shampoo tends have the lowest pH. Pretty much all conditioners are formulated with normalizing pH's (4.5-6ish) like your hair, but after a relaxer the pH of your hair could be as high as 10-11 even after rinsing in water. A normalizing pH would bring the pH down, but it would still be relatively high compared to normal.

When I do a middle protein step, I only do it for 3-5 minutes with a protein reconstructing conditioner with a pH of 5. You really don't need it on that long because the shaft is already very swollen and the cuticle layers are still quite lifted. I'm just concerned that using heat at that stage would damage the hair which is why I was asking about the 10-15 mins with heat. Conditioner at this critical stage does not need heat to penetrate the shaft. The shaft is already vulnerable and open. Then 10-15 minutes is quite a long time to have the hair in that "limbo" sort of state. The conditioners are lowering the pH, but you still want to get your hair back to normal as soon as possible.

So after conditioning for 3-5 minutes, I finish with a regular neutralizing shampoo to finish the deal.

 

[TLC1020]

I use motions mild relaxer and the directions says to relax, condition, then neautralize and this what I do all the time. Conditioning before neautralizing gives my hair the moisture that was stripped while relaxing..
I believe the more moisture the hair receives the healthy the hair becomes and remain..

 

[Jetblackhair]

Thanks for the break down MsJones...you get an "A" for knowledge

 

[Jetblackhair]

Neutralizing/Normalizing conditioners are fine, but most people still follow them with a neutralizing shampoo because the shampoo tends have the lowest pH. Pretty much all conditioners are formulated with normalizing pH's (4.5-6ish) like your hair, but after a relaxer the pH of your hair could be as high as 10-11 even after rinsing in water. A normalizing pH would bring the pH down, but it would still be relatively high compared to normal.

When I do a middle protein step, I only do it for 3-5 minutes with a protein reconstructing conditioner with a pH of 5. You really don't need it on that long because the shaft is already very swollen and the cuticle layers are still quite lifted. I'm just concerned that using heat at that stage would damage the hair which is why I was asking about the 10-15 mins with heat. Conditioner at this critical stage does not need heat to penetrate the shaft. The shaft is already vulnerable and open. Then 10-15 minutes is quite a long time to have the hair in that "limbo" sort of state. The conditioners are lowering the pH, but you still want to get your hair back to normal as soon as possible.

So after conditioning for 3-5 minutes, I finish with a regular neutralizing shampoo to finish the deal.

Sisterslick, If I ever get my hair relaxed again, I'm coming to see you

 

[Sistaslick]

Sisterslick, If I ever get my hair relaxed again, I'm coming to see you

Yeah I talk about all of this in my relaxer application article in the part where I talk about the mid-protein treatment. Once you understand how pH works, you'll be able to understand lots of things about hair. Most people think the neutralizer magically neutralizes the relaxer creme, but it's only the physical removal of the creme by rinsing and neutralizer's pH that accomplishes this. So the question of whether the relaxer is still processing during this stage is a very, very common one.

In fact, there are people who don't use neutralizer at all. I wouldn't recommend it, but you could actually get away with doing that.

 

[locabouthair]

Lately, I have been really considering going back to a lye relaxer! I've been racking my brain, so finally I decided to call my friend (who used to do my hair back in the day) who owns a hair salon (she has owned her own shop since a few years graduating from high school) to get her opinion on switching from a no-lye to lye. She is a very straight forward, no lie type of gal and she said this:

"Babe (she always calls me babe), whether it's no lye or lye it is all the same thing just different type of lye. And actually lye relaxers are better because it provides more moisture than the other. But above all that, it's not about the relaxer, it really about your conditioner and making sure you are using moisturizing conditioner. That's the most important thing regarding black hair care period. So yes, you can get a lye relaxer, and be fine just make sure when you relax you condition the hair before neutralizing. Rinse the relaxer out, then apply conditioner and sit under the dryer for 10 or 15 minutes, then neutralize. And personally, I don't like Affirm relaxer system, it drys the hair too much."

I have heard people on the forum say this. And I never understood why. Isn't the neutralizer supposed to stop the chemical reaction if you don't neautralize right after wouldnt the relaxer be processing longer, which would lead to overprocessing breakage? can someone explain this to me? When I go to my salon they neautralize then they put the conditioner on.

 

[Sistaslick]

I have heard people on the forum say this. And I never understood why. Isn't the neutralizer supposed to stop the chemical reaction if you don't neautralize right after wouldnt the relaxer be processing longer, which would lead to overprocessing breakage? can someone explain this to me? When I go to my salon they neautralize then they put the conditioner on.

It is the pH that stops the action of the relaxer, not necessarily a "neutralizer." Everything you apply to the hair after you rinse the relaxer, including the water, has a neutralizing effect on the hair. The chemical reactions needed for processing the hair are not compatible or possible at low pHs.

 

[locabouthair]

Sisterslick, If I ever get my hair relaxed again, I'm coming to see you

I wanna see her too. I love reading your article sista. I learn a lot! And your progress really motivates me.

 

[pear]

Great thread...I have been thinking about lye relaxers as well. I currently have a no lye relaxer and for some reason, after my hair was relaxed this last time, I have been experiencing terrible dryness (moisture will NOT stay in my hair).

I am scared about switching relaxer brands and type because everytime I have done so, for some reason my hair falls out. It is almost like my hair doesn't like adjusting to a different set of chemicals.

Does this happen to anyone else?

 

[Sistaslick]

I wanna see her too. I love reading your article sista. I learn a lot! And your progress really motivates me.

Thanks girl!

I meant to add to my reply to you above, that doing the conditioner before neutralizing insures deeper penetration of the conditioner's proteins into the shaft because the cuticles are lifted. If you neutralize the hair first with a shampoo, any conditioning you do will be deposited superficially on the cuticle layers. It will still get in because relaxing makes the hair more porous, but your best bet is right before the neutralizer. The pHs of the conditioners are also normalizing so that they are also stopping the relaxer action as they are penetrating and rebuilding the cuticle.

 

[Sistaslick]

Great thread...I have been thinking about lye relaxers as well. I currently have a no lye relaxer and for some reason, after my hair was relaxed this last time, I have been experiencing terrible dryness (moisture will NOT stay in my hair).

I am scared about switching relaxer brands and type because everytime I have done so, for some reason my hair falls out. It is almost like my hair doesn't like adjusting to a different set of chemicals.

Does this happen to anyone else?

Have you tried chelating the hair to remove the mineral buildup from your no lye relaxer? That mineral buildup can lead to dryness along the hair shaft. Chelating will lift those minerals and free up your hair shaft so that it can recieve moisture better. They are also good for swimmers and those with hard water.
I currently use Mizani No lye sensitive scalp, and I chelate with Kenra Clarifying Shampoo (which is also a chelator) the wash after the relaxer. And then sometimes a few washes later. I don't have any problems with dryness from my no-lye at all.

 

[locabouthair]

deleted...

 

[Sistaslick]

Thanks for explaining this. I didnt read your article on relaxers but I will read it soon.

is it wrong to do the neutralizer first then conditioner? Im guessing the conditioner first then neutralizer would make it easier for the conditioner to penetrate.

No girl! It's not wrong! It would just be more beneficial if the conditioner came first. Most salon lye relaxers come with this step already integrated like that. Affirm and Vitale are two that come to mind. They both have conditioners that come before the neutralizer.

However, most relaxers that are on the market for the average customer to do at home (no lyes), do not include this step--- and really they should. If anyone needs it, it's the do it yourself lady picking up a kit from Walmart! Fortunately, this step can be safely done with ANY relaxer, and you'll notice a difference once you start incorporating it. There'll be no more limp, plastered to the scalp fresh relaxed feel-- your hair will bounce, feel full, and have lots of body. I never skip this step, ever!

 

[locabouthair]

Thanks girl!

I meant to add to my reply to you above, that doing the conditioner before neutralizing insures deeper penetration of the conditioner's proteins into the shaft because the cuticles are lifted. If you neutralize the hair first with a shampoo, any conditioning you do will be deposited superficially on the cuticle layers. It will still get in because relaxing makes the hair more porous, but your best bet is right before the neutralizer. The pHs of the conditioners are also normalizing so that they are also stopping the relaxer action as they are penetrating and rebuilding the cuticle.

will this happen even if you use heat?