Why is moisture so vital to hair retention... oh wait... it's NOT!!!???!!

[luckiestdestiny]

gurrrl it's about to be on and poppinYou know how the ladies on here feel about their moisturizers.

:gotroasted:

 

[kblc06]

Hmm all I know is that my hair loves protein.

But I think what the OP may be getting at is that certain proteins (i.e. collagen or wheat proteins) have "moisturizing" properties, because they provide hair with the elasticity that it needs. Nonetheless, they are still proteins (so no additional water is required if these types of proteins provide a moisturizing effect). Am I following you OP?

In that case, this may work fine for you. I often use products that contain some small amount of wheat protein or silk proteins and my hair does just fine, but they are also primarily water based as well. I hate oil moisturizers

 

[msa]

Protein treatments fill in gaps in the hair cuticle from damage. That is why protein treatments have a reinforcing effect on the hair. That is the point of protein treatments but the extent to which that is needed it depended on the level of damage in the hair and the cuticle size. This is why many naturals don't really need protein treatments (especially the ones that don't heat style) because their cuticle is very much still intact. The ones that do more heat styling or styles that require heavy manipulation need it more but still usually less than relaxed heads.

I was just going to say this. I know I don't need any extra protein because I don't heat style at all and I basically use my fingers to do anything to my hair. I only use a comb to detangle when my hair is completely lubricated with oil to avoid mechanical damage.

As far as moisture, I know my scalp needs it because it gets dry just like my skin. I only manipulate my hair when wet because it's easiest that way. Other than water, coconut oil and castor oil make my hair soft but they also have to be applied to damp hair to work.

I know my hair needs water so that it doesn't get so dried out that it breaks off. As far as all the other "moisturizers" I don't really fool with those so I don't know. I think moisture is necessary in general though.

 

[Amerie123]

um, there's a lot to say, but i think most of the people have already said it. but um, protein and moisture are vital and they go hand in hand. different people need different levels depending on their hair's state. but... nevermind, i think all of the "hair-gurus" have said it all!

 

[Noir]

Most of the ladies already posted everything that I was going to say. Gymfreak did a good job of breaking it down.

thinkpinkprincess, girl what is up with you tonight? I just finished reading your ''heat is not damaging" thread. I am happy you started them though.. they are valid questions that you asked. Maybe you should try a frequent heat/no moisture challenge?

Where you use regular heat and no moisture.. only protein treatments on your hair Lolz it would be real interesting to see the outcome of that

 

[thinkpinkprincess]

Most of the ladies already posted everything that I was going to say. Gymfreak did a good job of breaking it down.

thinkpinkprincess, girl what is up with you tonight? I just finished reading your ''heat is not damaging" thread. I am happy you started them though.. they are valid questions that you asked. Maybe you should try a frequent heat/no moisture challenge?

Where you use regular heat and no moisture.. only protein treatments on your hair Lolz it would be real interesting to see the outcome of that

I am actually kind of tempted to experiment a little lol but... I think moisture is vital to the healthy look of hair bc what's the point of having long hair if it feels like straw and it looks busted lol

 

[msa]

Most of the ladies already posted everything that I was going to say. Gymfreak did a good job of breaking it down.

thinkpinkprincess, girl what is up with you tonight? I just finished reading your ''heat is not damaging" thread. I am happy you started them though.. they are valid questions that you asked. Maybe you should try a frequent heat/no moisture challenge?

Where you use regular heat and no moisture.. only protein treatments on your hair Lolz it would be real interesting to see the outcome of that

 

[Tarae]

Most of the ladies already posted everything that I was going to say. Gymfreak did a good job of breaking it down.

thinkpinkprincess, girl what is up with you tonight? I just finished reading your ''heat is not damaging" thread. I am happy you started them though.. they are valid questions that you asked. Maybe you should try a frequent heat/no moisture challenge?

Where you use regular heat and no moisture.. only protein treatments on your hair Lolz it would be real interesting to see the outcome of that

lmao, I don't think that challenge would last long at all. I don't even want to imagine

 

[thinkpinkprincess]

lmao, I don't think that challenge would last long at all. I don't even want to imagine

oh c'mon, y'all know you want to join!

 

[Noir]

I am actually kind of tempted to experiment a little lol but... I think moisture is vital to the healthy look of hair bc what's the point of having long hair if it feels like straw and it looks busted lol

Yea and when it gets to that point the hair becomes brittle and any manipulation WILL make it snap off. Our hair contains 8 to 14 % water and needs to be replenished with moisture regularly to improve porosity, elasticity and like you mentioned above the appearance of the hair.

Honestly using heat regulary (which will dry out the hair) and not moisturing is just asking for trouble. So pls for the love LHCF do not conduct a regular heat use/no moisture challenge LOL.

However I do agree with some of the points outlined in your OP. I think protein is beneficial for the majority of people, specifically those who use heat on the regs and have colour or chemical treated hair . Just because your hair does not respond positively to a particluar protein treatment, does not mean that your hair will react that way with ALL types protein products.

I don't think that heat is the debbil either, if used correctly and in moderation.

 

[Noir]

lmao, I don't think that challenge would last long at all. I don't even want to imagine

oh c'mon, y'all know you want to join!

That would be a SIGHT to see

 

[poookie]

I have heard some ladies make the assertion that their hair "hates" protein... this has me scratching my head because well... hair IS protein So how can the hair not like the primary component of its very foundation?

i feel ya on this one. i know every head of hair is different, but i do go "huh?" when folk say that their hair hates protein. there's a difference between your hair actually hating protein, and you just not being partial towards how it makes your hair feel after a protein treatment. just my opinion; no need to start anything with me

 

[amara11]

hair may not need moisture to "grow" but my head needs the moisture in order to retain my growth. *For me* my hair will grow regardless of what I do to the length of it. Growth is an internal process. Most do not have issues with growth but issues with retention *hence the need to balance moisture and protein

Exactly.

Hair may be dead, but its still connected to you and is affected by what you do and don't do for your body and scalp.

You may drink lots of water and provide internal sources of moisture, but everyday life robs us of that (washing, combing, brushing, friction, styling, blowdrying, etc.)

Not to mention, the cuticle is porous, its not an iron clad shield, moisture can escape.

So our hair needs it from our bodies, but also from outside sources.

 

[MCMLXXII]

Hi ThinkPink: Not long ago, I came across this article about the balancing act required between protein and moisture. You may find it helpful.

Basically, there has to be an evenness between protein and moisture. Too much of either can be bad. Just like people need fats in their body for proper brain function, sustainability, etc, too much fat leads to an obese body and health problems.

So for the folks that say their hair "doesn't like protein" means the pendulum has shifted too far in one direction and they need to counterbalance those efforts with more moisture...and vice versa.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/278612/the_fine_art_of_protein_and_moisture.html?cat=69

HTH

 

[Urban]

Ok so I so I know some of you are like "WHAAAAATTTT no she didn't just say that moisture wasn't important!!!"
But hold on... let me try to explain my train of thought...

*Ahem*

I have heard some ladies make the assertion that their hair "hates" protein... this has me scratching my head because well... hair IS protein So how can the hair not like the primary component of its very foundation? The main reason that the hair fails to retain length is because of BREAKAGE. Breakage is curtailed when the hair is strengthened, which is possible through attaining more PROTEIN and reinforcing the structure of the molecular bonds of the hair - this becomes even more necessary when the hair has been relaxed and the natural bonds have been weakened by caustic chemicals. So PROTEIN is what strangthens the hair, which allows it to break less often, thus retaining length, right?
Now, you might be thinking, "Well, that may be true but the hair needs elasticity as well, in order to spring back after being stretched and not break". However, elastin and collagen are ideal for allowing the hair to stratch and provide optimum elasticity... and they're PROTEINS.
So I just don't see why oils and water are neccessary to actually growing the hair longer, even though I admit they can dramatically improve the FEEL and LOOK of the hair. In fact, wet hair is when the hair is the most vulnerable to damage (i.e. heat tools or brushing vs. dry hair) and prone to breakage, at least in my personal experience. But I would love to hear your thoughts on this , I still consider myself a novice when it comes to hair care analysis lol

Proteins like keratin along with elastin and collagen, which you mentioned, interact with water. "A particularly interesting class of systems pioneered by Dan Urry are the so-called elastins which consist of globular proteins in vertebrate elastic fibers, as found in vascular walls, skin or lung tissue. They allow for reversible deformations upon mechanical stress by virtue of their unique viscoelastic properties in the water-swollen state." - http://www.theochem.rub.de/research/marx/topic7.en.html

Along the same lines, water allows keratin to stretch. Take a look at this page, that explains viscoelasticity. Pay particular attention to the line under the graph. "the presence of the water allows the unravelling and reravelling of the helices to occur more easily." - http://www.doitpoms.ac.uk/tlplib/bioelasticity/viscoelasticity-hysteresis.phpKeratin (elasticity)

Try not putting any water on your hair for the next 2 months (there are dry shampoos you can use), and come back and tell us whether or not you're experiencing breakage.

 

[Irresistible]

Proteins like keratin along with elastin and collagen, which you mentioned, interact with water. "A particularly interesting class of systems pioneered by Dan Urry are the so-called elastins which consist of globular proteins in vertebrate elastic fibers, as found in vascular walls, skin or lung tissue. They allow for reversible deformations upon mechanical stress by virtue of their unique viscoelastic properties in the water-swollen state." - http://www.theochem.rub.de/research/marx/topic7.en.html

Along the same lines, water allows keratin to stretch. Take a look at this page, that explains viscoelasticity. Pay particular attention to the line under the graph. "the presence of the water allows the unravelling and reravelling of the helices to occur more easily." - http://www.doitpoms.ac.uk/tlplib/bioelasticity/viscoelasticity-hysteresis.phpKeratin (elasticity)

Try not putting any water on your hair for the next 2 months (there are dry shampoos you can use), and come back and tell us whether or not you're experiencing breakage.

will there be any left by then to be breaking?

 

[Urban]

will there be any left by then to be breaking?

Too true

 

[Irresistible]

Too true

 

[Solitude]

Ok so I so I know some of you are like "WHAAAAATTTT no she didn't just say that moisture wasn't important!!!"
But hold on... let me try to explain my train of thought...

*Ahem*

I have heard some ladies make the assertion that their hair "hates" protein... this has me scratching my head because well... hair IS protein So how can the hair not like the primary component of its very foundation? The main reason that the hair fails to retain length is because of BREAKAGE. Breakage is curtailed when the hair is strengthened, which is possible through attaining more PROTEIN and reinforcing the structure of the molecular bonds of the hair - this becomes even more necessary when the hair has been relaxed and the natural bonds have been weakened by caustic chemicals. So PROTEIN is what strangthens the hair, which allows it to break less often, thus retaining length, right?
Now, you might be thinking, "Well, that may be true but the hair needs elasticity as well, in order to spring back after being stretched and not break". However, elastin and collagen are ideal for allowing the hair to stratch and provide optimum elasticity... and they're PROTEINS.
So I just don't see why oils and water are neccessary to actually growing the hair longer, even though I admit they can dramatically improve the FEEL and LOOK of the hair. In fact, wet hair is when the hair is the most vulnerable to damage (i.e. heat tools or brushing vs. dry hair) and prone to breakage, at least in my personal experience. But I would love to hear your thoughts on this , I still consider myself a novice when it comes to hair care analysis lol

This took me 4 months on this board to figure out. I was like moisture, moisture, moisture!!! Yes, my hair was soft, but it was too soft & felt weak. I started browsing other sites...yeah other sites....and I found all these ladies on youtube, etc. using Aphoghee, so I tried it and needless to say, PROTEIN will be a big part of my regimen from now on. My hair feels so strong!

I totally agree with this entire post.

ETA: It seems to be about striking a balance between moisture and protein, because moisturizing daily has had a huge impact on my retention as well.

 

[Solitude]

thinkpinkprincess, girl what is up with you tonight? I just finished reading your ''heat is not damaging" thread. I am happy you started them though.. they are valid questions that you asked. Maybe you should try a frequent heat/no moisture challenge?

I know you were being sarcastic/funny, but ACTUALLY as opposed to a frequent heat/ no moisture challenge, a frequent protein/ frequent heat challenge might just work.

One of the reasons why so many ladies are afraid of heat is probably too much moisture & having their hair always in a weakened state (wet). Like so many things on this board, people get a mob mentality when it comes to moisture. That is all.

 

[Neith]

Ok so I so I know some of you are like "WHAAAAATTTT no she didn't just say that moisture wasn't important!!!"
But hold on... let me try to explain my train of thought...

*Ahem*

I have heard some ladies make the assertion that their hair "hates" protein... this has me scratching my head because well... hair IS protein So how can the hair not like the primary component of its very foundation? The main reason that the hair fails to retain length is because of BREAKAGE. Breakage is curtailed when the hair is strengthened, which is possible through attaining more PROTEIN and reinforcing the structure of the molecular bonds of the hair - this becomes even more necessary when the hair has been relaxed and the natural bonds have been weakened by caustic chemicals. So PROTEIN is what strangthens the hair, which allows it to break less often, thus retaining length, right?
Now, you might be thinking, "Well, that may be true but the hair needs elasticity as well, in order to spring back after being stretched and not break". However, elastin and collagen are ideal for allowing the hair to stratch and provide optimum elasticity... and they're PROTEINS.
So I just don't see why oils and water are neccessary to actually growing the hair longer, even though I admit they can dramatically improve the FEEL and LOOK of the hair. In fact, wet hair is when the hair is the most vulnerable to damage (i.e. heat tools or brushing vs. dry hair) and prone to breakage, at least in my personal experience. But I would love to hear your thoughts on this , I still consider myself a novice when it comes to hair care analysis lol

You're forgetting that hair also naturally HAS WATER AND MOISTURE IN IT AS WELL.

I'm sure you know that out bodies are composed mostly of water. I've read that hair is 60% water.

To ONLY use protein is asking for trouble, overload makes the hair too brittle... which is why you wouldn't do something stupid like doing a hard aphogee treatment every week, even if you add moisture or not. At least I hope not


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



All protein is not the same. It's not like we can throw some protein on our hair and everything is as good as new.

I'm sure if there was some way to put real, human keratin back into the hair and repair it as good as new, EVERYONE'S hair would respond well because it would just be truly repairing the hair on a molecular level.

Protein treatments don't work that way. It's not truly repairing your hair, it temporarily strengthens and COATS the hair. It is NOT truly getting in there and repairing the hair to what it was before any damage.

Putting foreign proteins in someone's hair is not something that I would think would help every single person. You're not truly repairing anything, it's not like someone has particle sized keratin and is arranging them just like it should be inside the hair and making it as good as new... it's more of a bandage. It will not get into the cortex and magically align itself with the proteins inside your hair.

In my opinion, some people's hair doesn't like or need extra (foreign) proteins. This isn't a one size fits all kind of thing.



I think you need to put a little more thought into your theories, no offense. It seems as if you zero into ONE area or fact, then ignore everything else.

 

[Ganjababy]

My hair needs moisture otherwise it would just break off and too much protein also breaks my hair off, so for me it is not a theory but a proven fact

 

[HoneyA]

My hair thrives with lots of moisture and hard protein every 6-8 weeks. I have no idea why this is but as long as it's not breaking and I'm retaining all my length, I'm good. That's another thing if I keep my hair wet and protected 24/7 I retain more length( practically all my inches). I continue with hard protein every 6-8 weeks too. You can test your theory on your hair for about 3-4 weeks, see what results you get and report back. that way at least you'll know if this is an option fo you.

 

[Solitude]

You're forgetting that hair also naturally HAS WATER AND MOISTURE IN IT AS WELL.

I'm sure you know that out bodies are composed mostly of water. I've read that hair is 60% water.

To ONLY use protein is asking for trouble, overload makes the hair too brittle... which is why you wouldn't do something stupid like doing a hard aphogee treatment every week, even if you add moisture or not. At least I hope not


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



All protein is not the same. It's not like we can throw some protein on our hair and everything is as good as new.

I'm sure if there was some way to put real, human keratin back into the hair and repair it as good as new, EVERYONE'S hair would respond well because it would just be truly repairing the hair on a molecular level.

Protein treatments don't work that way. It's not truly repairing your hair, it temporarily strengthens and COATS the hair. It is NOT truly getting in there and repairing the hair to what it was before any damage.

Putting foreign proteins in someone's hair is not something that I would think would help every single person. You're not truly repairing anything, it's not like someone has particle sized keratin and is arranging them just like it should be inside the hair and making it as good as new... it's more of a bandage. It will not get into the cortex and magically align itself with the proteins inside your hair.

In my opinion, some people's hair doesn't like or need extra (foreign) proteins. This isn't a one size fits all kind of thing.



I think you need to put a little more thought into your theories, no offense. It seems as if you zero into ONE area or fact, then ignore everything else.

Um, this is wrong. Hair is approximately 91% protein. No offense, but before telling OP to put more thought into her theory, you may want to put some more research in before you post. It is a very basic scientific fact that hair is protein (keratin). It is not 60% water.

 

[Eisani]

Moisture is essential because strength without flexiblity means nothing.

Many things in nature are very strong, but without flexiblity, they are brittle and they break. Hair is a fiber so its no different.

Also, since your hair is made up of mostly protein, you don't need it in the same amounts that you need moisture.

Actually, you have it backwards. Since hair is made of protein, essential that you intake adequate amounts of it in your diet to become incorpated into the hair as it come out of your scalp. Once its out its out. That is where moisture comes in to make sure that the protein stays pliable and flexible to withstand daily stress.

It does but protein works in conjuction with moisture to give hair elasticity. If it were the other way around then no one would have protein overload.

Protein treatments fill in gaps in the hair cuticle from damage. That is why protein treatments have a reinforcing effect on the hair. That is the point of protein treatments but the extent to which that is needed it depended on the level of damage in the hair and the cuticle size. This is why many naturals don't really need protein treatments (especially the ones that don't heat style) because their cuticle is very much still intact. The ones that do more heat styling or styles that require heavy manipulation need it more but still usually less than relaxed heads.

I swear, everytime I read your posts I feel like I just left class. Luv u !!

 

[Fine 4s]

Moisture is necessary because if your hair is dry it will snap or split. When your cuticles are dry your hair will be rough. Just because your hair is not make up of water does not mean it doesn't need it. A lot of us can attest to the fact that our hair stop breaking when we added more Protein and moisture. You are welcome to eliminate moisture and let us know how that turn out for you.

Through my observation people who does not have dry scalp tend to retain more hair. That is because the oil their scalp excrete travel to the hair shaft to keep it moist.

I never heard this before. This is getting too deep for me nah!

I could understand that point...I thought that kinky hair generally has less sebum travelling down the hair due to all the twists and turns in the strand and that is why we have to add more moisture to our hair?

 

[Fine 4s]

will there be any left by then to be breaking?

Aren't there people that don't wash their hair for longer than 2 months?
I remember reading that on LHCF. Someone talked about a friend that didn't wash her hair but a few times a year.

Again, that doesn't mean they don't WET the hair I guess...

 

[Urban]

Aren't there people that don't wash their hair for longer than 2 months?
I remember reading that on LHCF. Someone talked about a friend that didn't wash her hair but a few times a year.

Again, that doesn't mean they don't WET the hair I guess...

You didn't address the issue here, which is breakage. She didn't WASH her hair, thats fine... but did she not moisturize either? Also, did she experience breakage?

 

[Neith]

Um, this is wrong. Hair is approximately 91% protein. No offense, but before telling OP to put more thought into her theory, you may want to put some more research in before you post. It is a very basic scientific fact that hair is protein (keratin). It is not 60% water.

I don't doubt that you are right, I did a quick search for how much water is in hair and the site I saw said 60%.

The 60% seemed off to me, however I didn't have any other source at the time, which is why I stated it the way I did. I didn't say hair is 60% water, I said that I read that it is. Made sure to put that in there since I wasn't so sure myself...

but the point that I was trying to make regardless of the percentages is that water IS INDEED in hair and makes a lot of difference in the health of one's hair.

Can you argue with that?

I also don't find all of the rest of my posting somehow invalid because the percentage of water in the hair was wrong.

 

[Mandy4610]

For me, too much protein makes my hair dry and hard. When my hair is dry and hard, it snaps (think of a brunch from a tree, when it has moisture in it, it does not snap or break, when it is dry it snaps/breaks)
IMO, moisture increases elasticity which is why my hair does not break/snap so easily if it is well moisturized.
The moisture and protein has to balance and work in harmony.
This is my understandingrotein makes it strong, it puts strength in it, but that also makes it hard and dry, so moisture evens out the protein to make the hair stretch/flexible so that it does not snap I am no scientist............... so this is the best way for me to understand it.