Why do women have to be the submissive ones?

[Slave4Hair]

I have never been in favor of the whole women should be submissive to men thing. Pretty much because I've never understood why people believe this? My boyfriend preaches this to me to no end. I'm not "submissive enough" I don't "listen" I don't let him, "Have the final word," or make the, "final decision." When I ask him why does he have to be the one doing all of that, he says..."because that's what men do, why is it so hard for you to accept?" This makes me laugh out loud like for real (I think that upsets him even more). So let me get this straight, I'm supposed to submit to you because I don't have a penis?

I understand men are used to being the head of the house hold because historically they were the providers, HOWEVER I'm currently working on my masters and when I'm done I will be making more than him, and I really am looking into PhD programs so I will also have a higher education as well. Now, his salary and education mean nothing to me, but shouldn't the person that who is more suitable be the one who is the head of the household, period? Why does someones sex determine who is "in charge?" Why can't we both sit down as equals and make decisions together without another person having the "final say?" Honestly, if one person is going to have the final say, whats the point in discussing it together at all?

To me submitting is something a dog does for his master, or a child to a parent. It just means weakness and inferiority to me. Maybe I'm a feminist even though I don't think so personally but my SO seems to think I am lol. Words like obey, and submit just really rub me the wrong way. So I was just wondering, ladies how do you feel about submission? I know i'm prob in the minority but i'm interested in seeing this from other points of view.

 

[kismettt]

why don't you consider yourself to be a feminist?

i don't think women HAVE to do anything. and there are plenty of men who want a strong, dominant woman and it has nothing to do with wanting to be taken care of/being weak/whatever.

your man, however, doesn't seem to be one of them. if my bf was asking me to "submit"/saying some of the things you posted, i'd have to gtfo. but that's just me. i will not engage in a power struggle in a relationship. i am not "submitting" to anyone.

idk what to tell ya, but couldn't be me.

 

[hopeful]

I don't think women are supposed to submit to men in general or even boyfriends. I thought it was just husbands. But if it is your belief that submitting to your husband is a ridiculous notion then get with a guy who has the same belief system. I don't have a strong belief one way or the other. I just think we are blessed to have a choice. Most women (especially in America) don't have to submit to anyone if they don't want to. There are men out there who want an equal partner and aren't worried about being submitted to.

 

[intergalacticartist]

Well, this is the way I see it.

Both men and woman have the dualities of masculine and feminine qualities inside them. Some men are more feminine, some women more masculine. Most people are the crux of their gender inside though
I believe this is just nature.
Women are more nurturing and men are more providing. I don't see one as being less than the other.
I think every men wants a women who is truly open to them which = submission. It doesn't mean you have to let him walk all over you or tell you what to do . It just just means you have to trust him.
Let me tell you, I don't have a BF nor ever had one, but men EAT THIS SH!T UP. They LIVE FOR IT.
If you trust him to provide for you it makes them feel really good. It's the crux of their being.
The only way I could explain is make it into an analogy. Imagine how you feel when you are protected by a man. Really good right? That's the exact feeling a man gets from you by you ALLOWING him to protect and provide for you.
They get their self esteem from being able to provide and care for women. If you ask for something, receive it, and thank him for it, there is nothing like it.
They live for that mess.
I understand that this is a hard job, BELIEVE me I went through it too. But you have to be careful to submit to the right man, not just anyone.

I don't necessarily see it as a weakness.

The way I see it is that it just makes my life easier. It's something they WANT to do for me, it makes them happy, and I don't have to worry about it.


Try it once with your BF. Thank me later lol.
Just once! If you don't like it, fine. But just try it.

 

[CarolinaGal]

From my belief system in marriage, submission is not a "powerless" place and actually it is explained that wives should submit to their husbands and that husbands should treasures their wives and submit to God. I have been taught that marriage is an act of constant submission to each other. It doesn't mean bow down and be a door mat. It means to love, listen, take heed, etc. Personally, I would not marry a man if I was not able to trust him and his judgement and if I did not believe that he was led by God. So if you are referring to Biblical principles, please search the other marriage references. The "submission" scripture is often overused, misinterpreted, abused, and not put into proper context.

 

[SmileyNY]

Here's what I believe.... At the end of the day we are animals and mammals. The natural male instinct is to be the protector & provider. There's a reason why men a generally taller & physically stronger than women: to protect & work to provide.

While there are exceptions, most men feel inadequate when the protector & provider role is taken from them.

This doesn't mean women are powerless, but I am a big believer in letting the man think he's the head of the household. The right man would never abuse that power.


Sent from my iPhone.

 

[qchelle]

Here's what I believe.... At the end of the day we are animals and mammals. The natural male instinct is to be the protector & provider. There's a reason why men a generally taller & physically stronger than women: to protect & work to provide.

While there are exceptions, most men feel inadequate when the protector & provider role is taken from them.

This doesn't mean women are powerless, but I am a big believer in letting the man think he's the head of the household. The right man would never abuse that power.


Sent from my iPhone.

Yes, there's a reason why men are taller and stronger: because they have a much higher level of testosterone than women (generally). So what does being taller and stronger and having more testosterone have to do with making decisions? It means that you're (the person with more testosterone) more apt to make risky, impulsive decisions in a high stress situation.

OP, I don't understand it either. Why the power of decision making is automatically given to the sex that is (probably) going to have a harder time evaluating the situation from various perspectives. I mean...this would be great if you work for the NYSE or something lol. But most decisions made in a relationship are not "1, 2, 3 GO!"

I don't feel like this is natural; I feel like this is asking a lot of men.

Now, if we were still cave people and he was responsible for leaving the cave, hunting with his hands and rocks and sticks, and making speedy decisions when faced with a mountain lion and a bear...then yes, it would make perfect sense to me. Because he is biologically more capable of producing good results in that situation. Or if there was a burglar that needed to be fought, etc.

Another phrase I find funny: "men are the hunters" and applying this to men going to work at 9am, sitting down at a desk, getting off at 5pm, and receiving a paycheck bi-weekly. That doesn't have anything to do with hunting He probably used about 5% of his manliness doing this lol.

I feel sorry for men. Their natural role is sooo outdated

Anyway OP, yall don't seem too compatible. Maybe you should re-evaluate being with him. You don't seem willing to budge, and neither does he. That could cause problems. There are lots of good men out there who don't subscribe to the school of thought that your SO does.

 

[MD_Lady]

I have never been in favor of the whole women should be submissive to men thing. Pretty much because I've never understood why people believe this? My boyfriend preaches this to me to no end. I'm not "submissive enough" I don't "listen" I don't let him, "Have the final word," or make the, "final decision." When I ask him why does he have to be the one doing all of that, he says..."because that's what men do, why is it so hard for you to accept?" This makes me laugh out loud like for real (I think that upsets him even more). So let me get this straight, I'm supposed to submit to you because I don't have a penis?...

It's "so hard for you to accept" for the same reason it's so hard for him not to accept (as your boyfriend has apparently never heard the phrase "different strokes for different folks"). As I've said many times before, I think other people have to do what works for them (and find someone who shares their values instead of someone into doing something they don't want to do). As for me, I take exception to the fact that, regardless of the situation, one person is going to have the final say in all matters. For me, knowledge and experience in a particular subject matter should determine who has the "final say", not gender. For me, compromise is the way to go.

 

[SmileyNY]

Yes, there's a reason why men are taller and stronger: because they have a much higher level of testosterone than women (generally).

Well... of course. I wasn't implying that it was magical. If you don't agree that men are naturally inclined to be protecters & providers... then the explanation of how that plays into being the head of a household doesn't really matter.


Sent from my iPhone.

 

[yora88]

Here's what I believe.... At the end of the day we are animals and mammals. The natural male instinct is to be the protector & provider. There's a reason why men a generally taller & physically stronger than women: to protect & work to provide.

While there are exceptions, most men feel inadequate when the protector & provider role is taken from them.

This doesn't mean women are powerless, but I am a big believer in letting the man think he's the head of the household. The right man would never abuse that power.


Sent from my iPhone.

ITA. And I know for a fact that I could never respect or be in a relationship with a man who I felt couldn't protect or provide for me.

 

[Slave4Hair]

Yes, there's a reason why men are taller and stronger: because they have a much higher level of testosterone than women (generally). So what does being taller and stronger and having more testosterone have to do with making decisions? It means that you're (the person with more testosterone) more apt to make risky, impulsive decisions in a high stress situation.

The only reason I have heard as to why they are suitable is the bible. It's funny how my SO will refer to the bible about submitting when I've never seen him pray, never seen him step foot in church, never heard him talk about god unless it's about what women should be doing. I feel that a lot of men use the bible to put women in their place.
OP, I don't understand it either. Why the power of decision making is automatically given to the sex that is (probably) going to have a harder time evaluating the situation from various perspectives. I mean...this would be great if you work for the NYSE or something lol. But most decisions made in a relationship are not "1, 2, 3 GO!"

I don't feel like this is natural; I feel like this is asking a lot of men.

Now, if we were still cave people and he was responsible for leaving the cave, hunting with his hands and rocks and sticks, and making speedy decisions when faced with a mountain lion and a bear...then yes, it would make perfect sense to me. Because he is biologically more capable of producing good results in that situation. Or if there was a burglar that needed to be fought, etc.
ITA. I have been out of the house since i was 18, i'm 23 now. I did grow up with my father and mother together so I don't have a daddy complex. I have never understood this protection that men provide. Like I said, i'm now 23 and have been doing just fine. My SO and i have been together for 4.5 years and I'm trying to think of one situation where I needed his protection. I also don't feel that I need to depend on him financially. I am in school for occupational therapy and feel I could do fine on my own. What I seek in a partner is companionship. I don't want anyone who thinks they are dominant over me. Men are always relying on women to feel like men, this is NOT a woman's job. Why are their ego's so fragile? I'm not understanding...

Another phrase I find funny: "men are the hunters" and applying this to men going to work at 9am, sitting down at a desk, getting off at 5pm, and receiving a paycheck bi-weekly. That doesn't have anything to do with hunting He probably used about 5% of his manliness doing this lol.

I feel sorry for men. Their natural role is sooo outdated
Girl...women have evolved and changed over time, why can't they?

Anyway OP, yall don't seem too compatible. Maybe you should re-evaluate being with him. You don't seem willing to budge, and neither does he. That could cause problems. There are lots of good men out there who don't subscribe to the school of thought that your SO does.

 

[Slave4Hair]

Well... of course. I wasn't implying that it was magical. If you don't agree that men are naturally inclined to be protecters & providers... then the explanation of how that plays into being the head of a household doesn't really matter.


Sent from my iPhone.

What if a woman makes more than the man? Is he still considered the provider? Should the woman still submit to him since she is now the provider? If the reason men were originally intended to be the head of homes was because they could provide and protect, but now women are capable are making more than them, shouldn't there be a shift in roles?

 

[Slave4Hair]

Well, this is the way I see it.

Both men and woman have the dualities of masculine and feminine qualities inside them. Some men are more feminine, some women more masculine. Most people are the crux of their gender inside though
I believe this is just nature.
Women are more nurturing and men are more providing. I don't see one as being less than the other.
I think every men wants a women who is truly open to them which = submission. It doesn't mean you have to let him walk all over you or tell you what to do . It just just means you have to trust him.
Let me tell you, I don't have a BF nor ever had one, but men EAT THIS SH!T UP. They LIVE FOR IT.
If you trust him to provide for you it makes them feel really good. It's the crux of their being.
The only way I could explain is make it into an analogy. Imagine how you feel when you are protected by a man. Really good right? That's the exact feeling a man gets from you by you ALLOWING him to protect and provide for you.
They get their self esteem from being able to provide and care for women. If you ask for something, receive it, and thank him for it, there is nothing like it.
They live for that mess.
I understand that this is a hard job, BELIEVE me I went through it too. But you have to be careful to submit to the right man, not just anyone.

I don't necessarily see it as a weakness.

The way I see it is that it just makes my life easier. It's something they WANT to do for me, it makes them happy, and I don't have to worry about it.


Try it once with your BF. Thank me later lol.
Just once! If you don't like it, fine. But just try it.

I completely understand your post, and does make me understand more of why my SO wants me to submit but at the same time I feel like the whole protection talk is overrated and it seems like a mans ego rest solely on a woman making him feel manly. I'm really starting to realize they are not as tough as they seem erplexed.

 

[SmileyNY]

What if a woman makes more than the man? Is he still considered the provider? Should the woman still submit to him since she is now the provider? If the reason men were originally intended to be the head of homes was because they could provide and protect, but now women are capable are making more than them, shouldn't there be a shift in roles?

I never said I think a man should be the head of every household. I just said that men have a natural desire to provide & protect.

As far as specific scenarios, I can only speak for myself. If I made more money than my husband, he would still be the HOH. I think you see HOH as being this all-powerful position where whatever he says goes. That's not what HOH would be in my house. Notice in my initial post I said I believe in letting a man THINK he's HOH. Basically, that means letting the man feel like he's the man. It's the little things... He sits at the head of the table, he fixes things around the house, he's the final line of discipline for the children, & I'll give his feelings about certain family decisions more weight.

HOH doesn't mean a man is walking around like Ike Turner putting his foot down all day. At least, that's not what it means to me.

ETA: Just because times have changed doesn't mean natural instincts & feelings change. Animal instinct will never change.

For example, I've had my dog since he was 6 weeks old. He's never lived in the wild. Despite this, since before he had ever even seen dirt, he would pretend to burry a bone. He'd go place it in the corner & go through all of the motions to put the "dirt" over the bone even though there was none. Times have changed. He no longer has to live in the wild & hide food.... But he still has that natural instinct.

The point is not to compare us to dogs The point is that natural instincts don't change just b/c times have changed.


Sent from my iPhone.

 

[Slave4Hair]

I never said I think a man should be the head of every household. I just said that men have a natural desire to provide & protect.

As far as specific scenarios, I can only speak for myself. If I made more money than my husband, he would still be the HOH. I think you see HOH as being this all-powerful position where whatever he says goes. That's not what HOH would be in my house. Notice in my initial post I said I believe in letting a man THINK he's HOH. Basically, that means letting the man feel like he's the man. It's the little things... He sits at the head of the table, he fixes things around the house, he's the final line of discipline for the children, & I'll give his feelings about certain family decisions more weight.

HOH doesn't mean a man is walking around like Ike Turner putting his foot down all day. At least, that's not what it means to me.


Sent from my iPhone.

Thanks for replying and i don't want you to think i'm picking on you but you brought up the points i'm confused about. This isn't intended solely for you, but anyone that wants to answer. Why do men make the final decisions? To me that reminds be of a documentary about how women speak but are not heard? Even though women say that it's not so, to me that mean that the woman's opinion is not as important as the mans. I mean even the leader of this country, the president, does not get the final say.

Thanks for replying smiley, I hope you don't feel that I'm targeting you.

 

[SmileyNY]

Thanks for replying and i don't want you to think i'm picking on you but you brought up the points i'm confused about. This isn't intended solely for you, but anyone that wants to answer. Why do men make the final decisions? To me that reminds be of a documentary about how women speak but are not heard? Even though women say that it's not so, to me that mean that the woman's opinion is not as important as the mans. I mean even the leader of this country, the president, does not get the final say.

Thanks for replying smiley, I hope you don't feel that I'm targeting you.

I don't feel targeted at all. I'm not trying to convince anyone to change their beliefs... I'm just stating what I believe for myself. I have no problems letting a man be HOH. I honestly wouldn't be happy in a relationship with a submissive man. That is not sexy to me

A man can be supportive & caring w/o being submissive IMO.


Sent from my iPhone.

 

[yora88]

When I speak of a man protecting me, it's more than just keeping me safe from a bad guy, it's keeping me out of harms way in general.

 

[Slave4Hair]

Couldn't a man and woman just be equal without one being more dominant over the other? I guess that's the real question I should be asking. I don't get why in this day and age men still feel they should be fulfilling the same role from thousands of years ago when the role of women has changed over time. It's like men refuse to let go of this outdated view that they are providers and protectors when you see more and more, women are bringing home bigger paychecks and and more self sufficient than ever before. I hate to say it but do I NEED a man? no. Do I want one? Yes! Because I do want that companionship and love. But I do not want nor need a man for the role that they were originally intended to fulfill because I can do that for myself. Would I ever say that to my SO? Hell no, he definitely couldn't handle it .

 

[Slave4Hair]

When I speak of a man protecting me, it's more than just keeping me safe from a bad guy, it's keeping me out of harms way in general.

Could you provide an example? I'm really just curious as to what this looks like for my own understanding

 

[yora88]

Thanks for replying and i don't want you to think i'm picking on you but you brought up the points i'm confused about. This isn't intended solely for you, but anyone that wants to answer. Why do men make the final decisions? To me that reminds be of a documentary about how women speak but are not heard? Even though women say that it's not so, to me that mean that the woman's opinion is not as important as the mans. I mean even the leader of this country, the president, does not get the final say.

Thanks for replying smiley, I hope you don't feel that I'm targeting you.

I allow my man to make the final decisions because unlike me he thinks with his head. For the most part, women are moved by feelings/emotions, my man is moved by logic and what makes sense. I know that whatever decision he makes regarding us has been well thought out and is for our benefit. And a good man will listen to his woman, mine listens to me. OP I think when you think of submission you think of extremes.

 

[Slave4Hair]

It's "so hard for you to accept" for the same reason it's so hard for him not to accept (as your boyfriend has apparently never heard the phrase "different strokes for different folks"). As I've said many times before, I think other people have to do what works for them (and find someone who shares their values instead of someone into doing something they don't want to do). As for me, I take exception to the fact that, regardless of the situation, one person is going to have the final say in all matters. For me, knowledge and experience in a particular subject matter should determine who has the "final say", not gender. For me, compromise is the way to go.

My point EXACTLY

 

[qchelle]

My boyfriend preaches this to me to no end. I'm not "submissive enough" I don't "listen" I don't let him, "Have the final word," or make the, "final decision." When I ask him why does he have to be the one doing all of that, he says..."because that's what men do, why is it so hard for you to accept?"

So what kind of stuff is he talking about? For example.

And better question: how in the world have you been with him for 4.5years?! I mean this is an entire belief system! This is nothing minor. Do you plan on marrying him? If my dude was talking like that I would've thrown up all over the place and chucked the deuces after month 2!

 

[Theo]

Sounds like you guys don't see eye to eye on a really key issue, which is a bad omen for your relationship.

Women don't have to do anything... we have choices these days. Some women identify with the submissive role, others don't... but I don't think its that women should do this or that... you have find what works for you.

Personally, I identify the submissive role, I like it. I'm really indecisive so if the responsibility of the major decisions goes to someone else, especially if said person is trustworthy and dependable, I'm all for it. Personally, I don't want the responsibility of leading a family. I don't think I'm mentally equipped for it. But the nurturing role certainly.

I don't think education and salary are the only indicators of your fitness to be a provider for your family either.

 

[yora88]

Could you provide an example? I'm really just curious as to what this looks like for my own understanding

I can only speak for myself....

1. He will stand up for me to anyone, including his mother.

2. He will make sure that I get to and from every destination safely. If i'm not home within an expected time, he will call until he gets in touch with me.

3. He shields me from the elements.

4. He makes sure that I am always provided for, even if that means that he has to go without.

5. He makes sure that I have reliable transportation. If it means making repairs to my car, letting me drive his car, or giving me money.

6. When I'm sick, he caters to my needs. He makes sure I have medicine, blankets, and soup.

7. And he protects me as a person because he never makes me do anything that I'm not comfortable with, he never asks me to change, and he never tries to prevent me from living my life.

OP, these are just a few examples.

 

[Slave4Hair]

I allow my man to make the final decisions because unlike me he thinks with his head. For the most part, women are moved by feelings/emotions, my man is moved by logic and what makes sense. I know that whatever decision he makes regarding us has been well thought out and is for our benefit. And a good man will listen to his woman, mine listens to me. OP I think when you think of submission you think of extremes.

Women don't think with their head? It's funny because I have noticed women to actually take a lot more into consideration when making decisions. For example, on this board alone countless times I have seen women asking for opinions on which shampoo is better than another, SHAMPOO! Me personally, I am very frugal (mostly because i'm broke), and tend to research everything before I buy it. Just the other day I went shopping for a blow dryer and while at target i pulled up the reviews for each blow dryer before determining which one was the best for me. I do think, personally, that women are more cautious decision makers than men. Though women are more emotional creatures, I definitely don't think that interferes with ones rationality. Millions of single women are able to make big decisions for themselves each day without the help of a man.

 

[Slave4Hair]

Sounds like you guys don't see eye to eye on a really key issue, which is a bad omen for your relationship.

Women don't have to do anything... we have choices these days. Some women identify with the submissive role, others don't... but I don't think its that women should do this or that... you have find what works for you.

Personally, I identify the submissive role, I like it. I'm really indecisive so if the responsibility of the major decisions goes to someone else, especially if said person is trustworthy and dependable, I'm all for it. Personally, I don't want the responsibility of leading a family. I don't think I'm mentally equipped for it. But the nurturing role certainly.

I don't think education and salary are the only indicators of your fitness to be a provider for your family either.

I 100% agree with everything you have said! I think women should be able to decide if they want to be submissive as well too. My problem is that the majority of men I come across expect women to take on this submissive role without giving her a choice and I don't understand why they feel entitled to be leaders just because they are men.

 

[Slave4Hair]

I can only speak for myself....

1. He will stand up for me to anyone, including his mother.

2. He will make sure that I get to and from every destination safely. If i'm not home within an expected time, he will call until he gets in touch with me.

3. He shields me from the elements.

4. He makes sure that I am always provided for, even if that means that he has to go without.

5. He makes sure that I have reliable transportation. If it means making repairs to my car, letting me drive his car, or giving me money.

6. When I'm sick, he caters to my needs. He makes sure I have medicine, blankets, and soup.

7. And he protects me as a person because he never makes me do anything that I'm not comfortable with, he never asks me to change, and he never tries to prevent me from living my life.

OP, these are just a few examples.

These are really good points but everything you have mentioned, I think you probably also do this for him as well. To be honest, my bestfriend and I also do some of the same for each other. If this is what being a protector entails a woman could also easily fulfill that role just as much as man. I understand that you particularly don't want to be the protector and provider, but my point is a woman should have a choice as to which role they want to fulfill, or that they could equally share ruling over the household without one person being more domineering than the other.

 

[yora88]

Women don't think with their head? It's funny because I have noticed women to actually take a lot more into consideration when making decisions. For example, on this board alone countless times I have seen women asking for opinions on which shampoo is better than another, SHAMPOO! Me personally, I am very frugal (mostly because i'm broke), and tend to research everything before I buy it. Just the other day I went shopping for a blow dryer and while at target i pulled up the reviews for each blow dryer before determining which one was the best for me. I do think, personally, that women are more cautious decision makers than men. Though women are more emotional creatures, I definitely don't think that interferes with ones rationality. Millions of single women are able to make big decisions for themselves each day without the help of a man.

I never said that women were incapable of making decisions or that they didn't use their heads, I was just saying that for the most part women are moved more by their feelings/emotions than men are. And just to clarify, I do think with my head, but I am guilty of letting me feelings/emotions affect my decision making.

 

[Theo]

I 100% agree with everything you have said! I think women should be able to decide if they want to be submissive as well too. My problem is that the majority of men I come across expect women to take on this submissive role without giving her a choice and I don't understand why they feel entitled to be leaders just because they are men.

Oh okay. Yeah, I don't submit to just anybody. I think men need to prove they are worthy of submitting to

 

[Slave4Hair]

So what kind of stuff is he talking about? For example.

And better question: how in the world have you been with him for 4.5years?! I mean this is an entire belief system! This is nothing minor. Do you plan on marrying him? If my dude was talking like that I would've thrown up all over the place and chucked the deuces after month 2!

Our latest argument was over whose house we should eat at for Thanksgiving. I want to go to my parents house, and he wants to stay at home (we live in DC but are both from Ohio). He said he didn't feel like traveling all the way back to Ohio for a few days, and it was going to cost to much. I told him he was free to stay in DC, but i'm going home, that's when he got mad and said I never do what he wants to do, or consider what he wants and that he questions my potential to be his wife because i'm never submissive. He always goes there so I don't even trip anymore.

I don't know why we have been together so long. I feel that most men think this way, I have never come across one who doesn't, so why dump him to date another man with same views? That's the only flaw in my SO, so i guess we'll just continue arguing until one of us gives in...it won't be me