When is the answer just "no"?

[kally]

In the bible it states that God created some people to be alone. How do you know if you are one of those people?

I want to get married. I know that you are to wait on God to send you mate, but I get so discourage when I hear of women in their 40s late 50s still waiting and hoping for them same thing. These women have been praying daily and having full faith in God for this to happen and it never does. Some die waiting. Is the answer just no? I have been always told that God will give you your hearts desire but why does it never happen for some women? God is very powerful and if need be create a man just for you. And no I am not one of those women who have not found herself. I have a promising career and plan to start my own business next year. So I have it together. I am 31 and am ready for other things in my life before it is to late. I'm attractive, good hearted, not naggy nor bad mouthy, always lift others up. I am not hard to please and not pickey and I still have not found even a boyfriend. The so-called male friends in the past I have dealt with never wanted to make me theirs until after I had have enough and left, then they wanted to commit to me. It was to late because my feelings for them have left and I refuse to be with some one who my heart is not into. Maybe I should just give up, I refuse to be stressed about this issue any longer

This does not make me lose faith in God nor turn against him, I just think the answer maybe no on this subject for me.

 

[cocoberry10]

In the bible it states that God created some people to be alone. How do you know if you are one of those people?

I want to get married. I know that you are to wait on God to send you mate, but I get so discourage when I hear of women in their 40s late 50s still waiting and hoping for them same thing. These women have been praying daily and having full faith in God for this to happen and it never does. Some die waiting. Is the answer just no? I have been always told that God will give you your hearts desire but why does it never happen for some women? God is very powerful and if need be create a man just for you. And no I am not one of those women who have not found herself. I have a promising career and plan to start my own business next year. So I have it together. I am 31 and am ready for other things in my life before it is to late. I'm attractive, good hearted, not naggy nor bad mouthy, always lift others up. I am not hard to please and not pickey and I still have not found even a boyfriend. The so-called male friends in the past I have dealt with never wanted to make me theirs until after I had have enough and left, then they wanted to commit to me. It was to late because my feelings for them have left and I refuse to be with some one who my heart is not into. Maybe I should just give up, I refuse to be stressed about this issue any longer

This does not make me lose faith in God nor turn against him, I just think the answer maybe no on this subject for me.

I just posted a thread on a similar topic (http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=106157). Although in my case, I don't feel like God doesn't want me to be married. I lack the desire right now. I'm in my early/mid 20's.

I'm going to go against the grain of what most relationship people tell you. I personally believe that a lot of single women out there could be married, but may not realize it. Sometimes God's answer is extremely clear and He tells you to do something or not do...or He brings something in your life or not.

However, I personally feel like a lot of single women out there are overlooking potentials (but not the way Essence magazine tells us, I'll talk about that some other time).

I have known A LOT of women of all ages who aren't married, but they are good friends with a great guy and have been forever, but neither ever looked at each other "that way," BUT THEY COULD/SHOULD. That's just one example, and since we're in the Christian forum, I'm talking about good, Christian men, who love the Lord, have good jobs, are mentally/emotionally stable, and would make wonderful husbands. This is harmful to all women, but seems most "harmful" to Black women, since the "ratio" issue makes it a little more difficult for us (but again, I think the media has blown this way out of proportion--I digress).

Yes, some women who want to be married are not meant to be. But I absolutely don't believe it's God's will for this many women, white, black, asian, latina, middle eastern or other to be single (especially Black women).

Sometimes God brings things into our lives, but are we willing to see it? That's an important question to ask. Sometimes we are so focused on the goal, that if it kicked us in the stomach, we wouldn't even recognize it, b/c we are ZONED OUT. I feel that the more we worry about something, we start sabotaging our chance of that thing. For example, if a woman was focused so hard on marriage, the fact that she's worried (about something) will be all over her face, her body language will be off, her posture bad, etc. She may not smile at a man she passes on the street/in church (and maybe he would have approached her). Now he's too scared to approach her, and she's still sad about being single. I'll have more later, but I hope this helps. Sorry so long!

 

[PaperClip]

I just posted a thread on a similar topic (http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=106157). Although in my case, I don't feel like God doesn't want me to be married. I lack the desire right now. I'm in my early/mid 20's.

I'm going to go against the grain of what most relationship people tell you. I personally believe that a lot of single women out there could be married, but may not realize it. Sometimes God's answer is extremely clear and He tells you to do something or not do...or He brings something in your life or not.

However, I personally feel like a lot of single women out there are overlooking potentials (but not the way Essence magazine tells us, I'll talk about that some other time).

I have known A LOT of women of all ages who aren't married, but they are good friends with a great guy and have been forever, but neither ever looked at each other "that way," BUT THEY COULD/SHOULD. That's just one example, and since we're in the Christian forum, I'm talking about good, Christian men, who love the Lord, have good jobs, are mentally/emotionally stable, and would make wonderful husbands. This is harmful to all women, but seems most "harmful" to Black women, since the "ratio" issue makes it a little more difficult for us (but again, I think the media has blown this way out of proportion--I digress).

Yes, some women who want to be married are not meant to be. But I absolutely don't believe it's God's will for this many women, white, black, asian, latina, middle eastern or other to be single (especially Black women).

Sometimes God brings things into our lives, but are we willing to see it? That's an important question to ask. Sometimes we are so focused on the goal, that if it kicked us in the stomach, we wouldn't even recognize it, b/c we are ZONED OUT. I feel that the more we worry about something, we start sabotaging our chance of that thing. For example, if a woman was focused so hard on marriage, the fact that she's worried (about something) will be all over her face, her body language will be off, her posture bad, etc. She may not smile at a man she passes on the street/in church (and maybe he would have approached her). Now he's too scared to approach her, and she's still sad about being single. I'll have more later, but I hope this helps. Sorry so long!

So I could have been married by now? Wow! I wish I could know wherew I missed it....

Thinking back, the few boyfriends I have had were first of all, not saved.... One who claimed to be saved ran up my phone bill (and maybe did some other things to me) and I attended his funeral a couple of years ago. My first boyfriend is still single and he has a tongue ring. He's got a great job though and I always admired his intelligence. There's one guy who might have been a potential but he didn't give me much of a signal of his interest toward me in between his marriages....

Oh yeah, there's one guy at my church who I did express my interest to because I thought he was interested in me but he told me that he had so many women coming at him he didn't know who to pick. The church buzz is that he STILL could be an option for me...

What's a girl to do? Where did I miss it?

 

[cocoberry10]

So I could have been married by now? Wow! I wish I could know wherew I missed it....

Thinking back, the few boyfriends I have had were first of all, not saved.... One who claimed to be saved ran up my phone bill (and maybe did some other things to me) and I attended his funeral a couple of years ago. My first boyfriend is still single and he has a tongue ring. He's got a great job though and I always admired his intelligence. There's one guy who might have been a potential but he didn't give me much of a signal of his interest toward me in between his marriages....

Oh yeah, there's one guy at my church who I did express my interest to because I thought he was interested in me but he told me that he had so many women coming at him he didn't know who to pick. The church buzz is that he STILL could be an option for me...

What's a girl to do? Where did I miss it?

I'm not specifically saying you, relaxerRehab. I do believe that the media is creating a frenzy among women (especially Black women). I personally have seen women and men who don't end up together, but I think they could be. Sometimes we have a friend that we don't look at in that way, and they don't look at us in that way, but we could.

I also believe that for SOME, they are not always realizing certain opportunities. For example, sometimes there may be a man in a social organization with you or in the church or somewhere else, that you may not have even thought of as a potential. It's not that he's unattractive, or emotionally unstable, or wouldn't be a good mate, but sometimes men also get overlooked, that's all I am saying.

For example, there was a guy in my college class. He was a great guy (I had a boyfriend at the time, so there was no chance). Anyway, he was attractive, a nice/good person, respectful, intelligent, and went on to a Ph.D program. He wasn't as outgoing as others, but many women overlooked him. He ended up with an Asian woman (although they are broken up now), and that's when Black women went into an uproar (I know that a lot of brothers do wrong, I'm not posting about interracial relationships). However, I do believe that sometimes men and women can be like ships passing in the night. That's just my opinion. It's not the only reason so many women are single, but I do think it's one of them.

 

[kally]

Cocoberry you make some good points, maybe I am over looking, I have this male friend I have known for three years, we only went out on dates never been intimate. He wants to me to move in with him and be his girl, but I do not like him at all. I told him this from the get go. I also explained very clearly that my heart is with someone else. (That someone else did not want me for his girl, but wanted the benefits for 8 years on and off). I broke that off and the friend of three years is still there, but I have no feelings for him and refuse to be with him for the sake of having a mate.

 

[cocoberry10]

So I could have been married by now? Wow! I wish I could know wherew I missed it....

Thinking back, the few boyfriends I have had were first of all, not saved.... One who claimed to be saved ran up my phone bill (and maybe did some other things to me) and I attended his funeral a couple of years ago. My first boyfriend is still single and he has a tongue ring. He's got a great job though and I always admired his intelligence. There's one guy who might have been a potential but he didn't give me much of a signal of his interest toward me in between his marriages....

Oh yeah, there's one guy at my church who I did express my interest to because I thought he was interested in me but he told me that he had so many women coming at him he didn't know who to pick. The church buzz is that he STILL could be an option for me...

What's a girl to do? Where did I miss it?

And I do understand you feeling like you missed it, but that's exactly what I'm saying. The Lord delights in us remaining content in every situation. I feel lucky/blessed that I'm content in singleness, b/c most of my single friends are not.

I do also personally think that Black women need to have more adventure in their lives and open themselves to all kinds of new opportunities. Not just going back to school (although that's one thing). I grew up with many non-Black women, and I feel like they allow themselves the freedom to explore, and we should too. As Christians, I'm not saying to do anything scandalous, but you can go mountain biking, skiing, snorkeling, learn to horseback ride, or something you didn't know how to do. I believe the more you open yourself up, the better the chances are of meeting all different types of men. Christian men like sports, there's nothing sinful about that. Christian men like doing activities.

I think sometimes we get frustrated with God, b/c we are waiting for him to drop that man in our lap, like the "stork drops the baby." But I think sometimes God is pushing on us to increase ourselves (i.e. make ourselves greater, better people). You could meet a nice man while traveling, or doing something you always wanted to do, but didn't. You just never know. I still believe in the Christian/Godly way of how a relationship should flow (man should lead, etc.) but I don't think it's wrong to open yourself to new experiences. That's all I mean. Sorry posts are so long.

 

[BlkManWithSomeSense]

I just posted a thread on a similar topic (http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=106157). Although in my case, I don't feel like God doesn't want me to be married. I lack the desire right now. I'm in my early/mid 20's.

I'm going to go against the grain of what most relationship people tell you. I personally believe that a lot of single women out there could be married, but may not realize it. Sometimes God's answer is extremely clear and He tells you to do something or not do...or He brings something in your life or not.

However, I personally feel like a lot of single women out there are overlooking potentials (but not the way Essence magazine tells us, I'll talk about that some other time).

I have known A LOT of women of all ages who aren't married, but they are good friends with a great guy and have been forever, but neither ever looked at each other "that way," BUT THEY COULD/SHOULD. That's just one example, and since we're in the Christian forum, I'm talking about good, Christian men, who love the Lord, have good jobs, are mentally/emotionally stable, and would make wonderful husbands. This is harmful to all women, but seems most "harmful" to Black women, since the "ratio" issue makes it a little more difficult for us (but again, I think the media has blown this way out of proportion--I digress).

Yes, some women who want to be married are not meant to be. But I absolutely don't believe it's God's will for this many women, white, black, asian, latina, middle eastern or other to be single (especially Black women).

Sometimes God brings things into our lives, but are we willing to see it? That's an important question to ask. Sometimes we are so focused on the goal, that if it kicked us in the stomach, we wouldn't even recognize it, b/c we are ZONED OUT. I feel that the more we worry about something, we start sabotaging our chance of that thing. For example, if a woman was focused so hard on marriage, the fact that she's worried (about something) will be all over her face, her body language will be off, her posture bad, etc. She may not smile at a man she passes on the street/in church (and maybe he would have approached her). Now he's too scared to approach her, and she's still sad about being single. I'll have more later, but I hope this helps. Sorry so long!

Thats pretty much my sentiment. Well said.

 

[Shimmie]

Cocoberry you make some good points, maybe I am over looking, I have this male friend I have known for three years, we only went out on dates never been intimate. He wants to me to move in with him and be his girl, but I do not like him at all. I told him this from the get go.

I also explained very clearly that my heart is with someone else.

(That someone else did not want me for his girl, but wanted the benefits for 8 years on and off). I broke that off and the friend of three years is still there, but I have no feelings for him and refuse to be with him for the sake of having a mate.

Kally.............the valve of your heart has been shut off...you are still with someone else. It appears you have a soul tie...tied to someone in a one way path. A path shutting out space for anyone else to walk beside you just to say...'I'm here.' The 8 year man is still controlling your heart; disabling you from having a brand new start. Let him go, pretty lady...this time, all the way. He can't give you what he owes you...it's too old and dusty. God does have better and wants to do a new thing just for you.

Let it all go......

 

[locabouthair]

And I do understand you feeling like you missed it, but that's exactly what I'm saying. The Lord delights in us remaining content in every situation. I feel lucky/blessed that I'm content in singleness, b/c most of my single friends are not.

I do also personally think that Black women need to have more adventure in their lives and open themselves to all kinds of new opportunities. Not just going back to school (although that's one thing). I grew up with many non-Black women, and I feel like they allow themselves the freedom to explore, and we should too. As Christians, I'm not saying to do anything scandalous, but you can go mountain biking, skiing, snorkeling, learn to horseback ride, or something you didn't know how to do. I believe the more you open yourself up, the better the chances are of meeting all different types of men. Christian men like sports, there's nothing sinful about that. Christian men like doing activities.

I think sometimes we get frustrated with God, b/c we are waiting for him to drop that man in our lap, like the "stork drops the baby." But I think sometimes God is pushing on us to increase ourselves (i.e. make ourselves greater, better people). You could meet a nice man while traveling, or doing something you always wanted to do, but didn't. You just never know. I still believe in the Christian/Godly way of how a relationship should flow (man should lead, etc.) but I don't think it's wrong to open yourself to new experiences. That's all I mean. Sorry posts are so long.

i agree with cocoberry. open yourself up to new experiences. try doing things that you always wanted to do. i plan on doing this also.

 

[PaperClip]

And I do understand you feeling like you missed it, but that's exactly what I'm saying. The Lord delights in us remaining content in every situation. I feel lucky/blessed that I'm content in singleness, b/c most of my single friends are not.

I do also personally think that Black women need to have more adventure in their lives and open themselves to all kinds of new opportunities. Not just going back to school (although that's one thing). I grew up with many non-Black women, and I feel like they allow themselves the freedom to explore, and we should too. As Christians, I'm not saying to do anything scandalous, but you can go mountain biking, skiing, snorkeling, learn to horseback ride, or something you didn't know how to do. I believe the more you open yourself up, the better the chances are of meeting all different types of men. Christian men like sports, there's nothing sinful about that. Christian men like doing activities.

I think sometimes we get frustrated with God, b/c we are waiting for him to drop that man in our lap, like the "stork drops the baby." But I think sometimes God is pushing on us to increase ourselves (i.e. make ourselves greater, better people). You could meet a nice man while traveling, or doing something you always wanted to do, but didn't. You just never know. I still believe in the Christian/Godly way of how a relationship should flow (man should lead, etc.) but I don't think it's wrong to open yourself to new experiences. That's all I mean. Sorry posts are so long.

While I respect the sincerity in your response, this is not new information to me. I just think it's quite insensitive to say that (some) women could be married if not for this or if you do this or that or that it's always the woman's fault or issue. That's why I said if I have missed it, LORD GOD PLEASE SHOW ME!!!!

I'm not sitting at home looking at the walls (anymore). I just got home from a poetry event at a church. It was very nice. I am working on my doctorate in education...FULL TIME. I'm on campus. I just got back from a graduate education conference in Chicago last weekend. I even signed up for ballroom dance lessons, excited about that because in the description, it said that you didn't have to sign up with a partner. Surely I expected to expand my social opportunities. Well, the first night of the lessons, I showed up partnerless and by the end of the first lesson, I felt like a real LOSER...but I went back again this past Friday. This time, I was the only person there without a partner. Everyone else was coupled up and PLUS, they were like 15-20 years older than me (that's a bit out of my age range!) So I am doing things new and different and adventurous, in between my intense studies.

I've spent A LOT of time agonizing over this, coming to a head this summer when I desired to take things into my own hands and find a companion on my own, outside of God's will. BUt God wouldn't let me go. I'm on the path toward contentment and to appreciate this time in my life, esp. since I'm a full-time student, but some days are hard. The holiday season is VERY HARD. I'm putting all this stuff out onto the carpet. Wanting and needing answers.

 

[fmnnity]

I truly believe that for His own reasons sometimes the answer is indeed "no." Everyone is not meant to be rich, or have physical beauty or get married. You can live your life for what may be or live the life that the Creator has already blessed you with. I know I may sound cold but this is just my opinion.

 

[firecracker]

I truly believe that for His own reasons sometimes the answer is indeed "no." Everyone is not meant to be rich, or have physical beauty or get married. You can live your life for what may be or live the life that the Creator has already blessed you with. I know I may sound cold but this is just my opinion.

I must say your right. Just enjoy and live the life you have.

 

[Sweet C]

Cocoberry, That post was on point!

I just wanted to share the testimony of one of the ministers at my church. She is in her early 50s (she has a child from previous rlp and a grandson) and just recently got engaged to be married. She met her husband when she was in NY attending a funeral. The people there knew she was a minister, and asked would she be willing to help them out. She did and a later on she said a man walked up to her and told her that she was his wife, and she said God confirmed that in her Spirit and they got engaged not to long after this encounter. Now when I heard this everyone thought she was crazy, but then I had to stop and think, who am I to say how God puts people together? A couple of weeks ago she gave her testimony in church about how she has been kept by God for a long time. She talked about how when she was younger, she was so focused on when was God sending her mate, that she neglected to really see what God has in store for her. So it wasn't until after God changed some things in her and she got busy doing the work that God called her to do that her husband approached.

I tell this as encouragement so that single Christian women won't settle for less than God's best, and instead of waiting on a man, get busy with your rlp with God and doing the work he has called you to do (and by this I don't mean just being on the choir or the usher board, b/c God work for his children to accomplish including serving the body). So while you are single, enjoy it to the fullest and stay close to God, so if and when you are called to be a helpmate, you will be prepared for the major ministry that entails.

 

[cocoberry10]

Cocoberry, That post was on point!

I just wanted to share the testimony of one of the ministers at my church. She is in her early 50s (she has a child from previous rlp and a grandson) and just recently got engaged to be married. She met her husband when she was in NY attending a funeral. The people there knew she was a minister, and asked would she be willing to help them out. She did and a later on she said a man walked up to her and told her that she was his wife, and she said God confirmed that in her Spirit and they got engaged not to long after this encounter. Now when I heard this everyone thought she was crazy, but then I had to stop and think, who am I to say how God puts people together? A couple of weeks ago she gave her testimony in church about how she has been kept by God for a long time. She talked about how when she was younger, she was so focused on when was God sending her mate, that she neglected to really see what God has in store for her. So it wasn't until after God changed some things in her and she got busy doing the work that God called her to do that her husband approached.

I tell this as encouragement so that single Christian women won't settle for less than God's best, and instead of waiting on a man, get busy with your rlp with God and doing the work he has called you to do (and by this I don't mean just being on the choir or the usher board, b/c God work for his children to accomplish including serving the body). So while you are single, enjoy it to the fullest and stay close to God, so if and when you are called to be a helpmate, you will be prepared for the major ministry that entails.

Thank you, Thank you for this post. It is such a blessing. I absolutely believe that God works in mysterious ways, and that He does mean for more women and men to be partnered together (NOT ALL--B/C THERE ARE SOME WHO WILL BE SINGLE). If we could only believe, and just focus on His will for us, I think so many blessings (not just marriage) would come. I admit that I have been working on becoming more focused on God first and only.

In another post, there was a link to Lakita Garth, who just got married. She teaches abstinence and was a virgin until age 36. I was so happy to see that she married, not just b/c she was a beautiful woman of the Lord. But also b/c she stood strong in her faith, against what others said (she would be too old to have children, did she really think a man would honor/respect her not putting out, did she want to end up single forever, etc.). It's time that we as Christians start believing in the promises that God has for us. I know it's hard, and I struggle with it too, but I am beginning to realize that He is more than we could imagine.

I don't want to offend anyone, but my pastor just preached on the topic of God's promises Sunday. He used the example of Abraham and Sarah, which is similar to the grief single women feel when they want to be married. He said that God's timing is not our timing (most of us know this). But he also said that God may not have intended for Sarah to wait so long for a child, but her impatience caused her to seek "outside/worldly help" (handmaid--we all know the story). I know it's hard to wait patiently and with thanksgiving when we want something so bad, but I now realize that it's the only way to get God's best.

 

[PaperClip]

Ok.... I'll go there....

How about this: what is a single woman supposed to do about her sexual desires? Would God say no to marriage yet give her sexual desires? Would God "tease" with giving a woman the desire to be married yet allow (or forsake) that desire and have it go unfulfilled?

The Bible says it is better to marry than to burn.... The marriage-virginity/sexual relationship triangle is quite intense....

 

[Bunny77]

Ok.... I'll go there....

How about this: what is a single woman supposed to do about her sexual desires? Would God say no to marriage yet give her sexual desires? Would God "tease" with giving a woman the desire to be married yet allow (or forsake) that desire and have it go unfulfilled?

The Bible says it is better to marry than to burn.... The marriage-virginity/sexual relationship triangle is quite intense....

Good question.

I honestly have no answer, I just am intrigued by relationship discussions (particularly relating to black women) on a religious and secular level. But seriously though, I've often wondered the same thing.

I mean, it's all well and good to talk about waiting until marriage to have sex, but I wonder why we (general we) can't have discussions about what that means for women who may never get married at all or might not get married until very late in life. I'm not advocating that they just go on ahead and do it, but still... I'd like to hear some dialogue on this issue.

For example... take a couple like Britney and K-Fed and make them, say, around 18 years old. They have no business being married for a variety of reasons, but because they are married, sex is okay. Never mind that their marriage might be a total sham... they're married so it's all good.

Then on the other side, you have women who are truly trying to do the right thing and "fight" their sexual desires for decades because they haven't found a husband and want to remain virgins or celibate. Who knows, they may never get married, but sex is something they'd truly like to experience. Are they being punished for trying to do things right?

Again, I'm not advocating sex outside of marriage just because. I just think that in all of the talk that religious folks have about waiting and remaining pure, there isn't enough discussion of the reality of sexual denial... which isn't exactly a great thing when we are created as sexual beings as well.

 

[Bunny77]

Here's another issue I've always wondered about... this discussion of seeing singleness as a blessing and using one's single period to focus on God is a very modern phenomenon. You didn't really hear anything like this from churches in the 50s, 60s, maybe even 70s because it was assumed that most people would get married.

Now I know that times have changed and people often got married back then because there was no other option. A "singles" culture didn't exist and women in particular had few avenues to do things on their own and basically had to find themselves a partner in their 20s or risk "old maid" status.

So, I recognize that singles ministries are a response to the changing times and believe me, I think their intentions are good. But in a way, I often question what I hear them saying, especially to women, because it seems to go counter to much that churches want to promote (the creation of healthy relationships and marriages, the building of families, etc.). How is singleness suddenly a gift from God when it wasn't 20 years ago? Why are churches promoting this way as opposed to taking on a proactive matchmaking role and attempting to bring single men and women together?

Maybe this is why I've never been totally down with some of the modern church perspectives on singleness, especially geared toward black women, because it's almost admitting defeat.

One final note -- I am NOT saying that being single is bad. Not at all. I am a single woman and not particularly upset about my status. I do want to be married but I don't feel called to that lifestyle at the moment. I am glad that I have the choice to NOT be married because it's something I might not have had 20-30 years ago. HOWEVER, there are many women who love the Lord and are faithful who do want to be married now and are having a difficult time finding someone. While I understand the church's desire to keep these women positive and focus them away from negative thoughts, I don't necessarily like the idea of telling them that singleness is a gift from God instead of being proactive in trying to help them find a partner.

I hope this made some sense!

 

[PaperClip]

Bunny, I appreciate your remarks....

I'm downright ticked off at the institutional church because I feel betrayed. When I was in my 20s, the predominant message was to get married! Get married! GET MARRIED!!!!! I was mad that that message was getting stuffed down my throat because I wasn't interested in getting married until I was 30. I was having fun in college and excited about my career in journalism. BUt as I narrowed my life toward church and accepting the teaching that if I get in church and stay in church, that my husband would find me, a la Ruth and Boaz, Esther, Jacob and Rachel, etc. And then watching my friends get married...I was a bridesmaid in several weddings....

And then age 30 came and went. And 35 came and went.... And when a man said that they liked me but they liked sex more, so what's up? I had to say I like you, too and I want you, too but I love and want Jesus more so I have to wait until I get married. So I'm about 75 lbs overweight.... Sex weight... sex wait....

I've asked God for somebody to be accountable for these lies... these false messages. These unfulfilled promises. This wrong programming. I obeyed my parents. I obeyed the pastor. I OBEYED GOD!!!!! Now what?

 

[Shimmie]

Here's another issue I've always wondered about... this discussion of seeing singleness as a blessing and using one's single period to focus on God is a very modern phenomenon. You didn't really hear anything like this from churches in the 50s, 60s, maybe even 70s because it was assumed that most people would get married.

Now I know that times have changed and people often got married back then because there was no other option. A "singles" culture didn't exist and women in particular had few avenues to do things on their own and basically had to find themselves a partner in their 20s or risk "old maid" status.

So, I recognize that singles ministries are a response to the changing times and believe me, I think their intentions are good. But in a way, I often question what I hear them saying, especially to women, because it seems to go counter to much that churches want to promote (the creation of healthy relationships and marriages, the building of families, etc.). How is singleness suddenly a gift from God when it wasn't 20 years ago? Why are churches promoting this way as opposed to taking on a proactive matchmaking role and attempting to bring single men and women together?

Maybe this is why I've never been totally down with some of the modern church perspectives on singleness, especially geared toward black women, because it's almost admitting defeat.

One final note -- I am NOT saying that being single is bad. Not at all. I am a single woman and not particularly upset about my status. I do want to be married but I don't feel called to that lifestyle at the moment. I am glad that I have the choice to NOT be married because it's something I might not have had 20-30 years ago. HOWEVER, there are many women who love the Lord and are faithful who do want to be married now and are having a difficult time finding someone.

While I understand the church's desire to keep these women positive and focus them away from negative thoughts,

I don't necessarily like the idea of telling them that singleness is a gift from God instead of being proactive in trying to help them find a partner.

I hope this made some sense!

YES ! You Make Perfect Sense !

For those in ministry who mean well, please stop making it worse for those who are seeking to be married and have every right to be. The word of God that I have always focused on and always will focus on, is Genesis 2:18-25

And the LORD God said, IT IS NOT GOOD that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

AND......... Here's my further justification for marriage...

ECCLESIASTES 4:9-11

9 Two are better than one; because they have a good reward for their labour.
10 For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him that is alone when he falleth; for he hath not another to help him up.
11 Again, if two lie together, then they have heat: but how can one be warm alone?

Shimmie says 'Goodnight'

 

[honeycomb719]

Bunny, I appreciate your remarks....

I'm downright ticked off at the institutional church because I feel betrayed. When I was in my 20s, the predominant message was to get married! Get married! GET MARRIED!!!!! I was mad that that message was getting stuffed down my throat because I wasn't interested in getting married until I was 30. I was having fun in college and excited about my career in journalism. BUt as I narrowed my life toward church and accepting the teaching that if I get in church and stay in church, that my husband would find me, a la Ruth and Boaz, Esther, Jacob and Rachel, etc. And then watching my friends get married...I was a bridesmaid in several weddings....

And then age 30 came and went. And 35 came and went.... And when a man said that they liked me but they liked sex more, so what's up? I had to say I like you, too and I want you, too but I love and want Jesus more so I have to wait until I get married. So I'm about 75 lbs overweight.... Sex weight... sex wait....

I've asked God for somebody to be accountable for these lies... these false messages. These unfulfilled promises. This wrong programming. I obeyed my parents. I obeyed the pastor. I OBEYED GOD!!!!! Now what?

Bunny, RR I really do feel your frustration and I share in many of them. I was just up all night talking to a friend about these very topic. I dont know what to do anymore. I know trying to do it my way isnt working, but waiting patiently is sometimes very hard to do. Loneliness will conquer you at some point. It just staying on the "right track" is soo hard to do. But, Ive notced I still end up in the same situation. So now what!?

 

[Bunny77]

YES ! You Make Perfect Sense !

For those in ministry who mean well, please stop making it worse for those who are seeking to be married and have every right to be. The word of God that I have always focused on and always will focus on, is Genesis 2:18-25

And the LORD God said, IT IS NOT GOOD that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

AND......... Here's my further justification for marriage...

ECCLESIASTES 4:9-11

9 Two are better than one; because they have a good reward for their labour.
10 For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him that is alone when he falleth; for he hath not another to help him up.
11 Again, if two lie together, then they have heat: but how can one be warm alone?

Shimmie says 'Goodnight'

Thanks for your answer Shimmie!

 

[Pam Pam]

I didn't read all of the responses, but I think that the answer lies in allowing God to bless you in His time.

I learned the hard way that I had to be HAPPY WITH JESUS ALONE. If I never got a man, I was content living and serving God. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts.

I think people pray for things and keep them at the forefront instead of allowing God to do His will. If you're saved, He heard the first prayer. No need in praying for it everyday if you believe God will bless you with it. Being married, in my opinion, is not a life or death event that God has to answer at the spur of the moment.

Sometimes, women have their hearts set on a certain individual and won't allow anyone else to come in. Sometimes, having a husband would not allow them to achieve their full potential in God.

In my humble opinion, isn't it better to make into Heaven as opposed to having a husband? Sometimes, we can make gods out of our fleshly desires and maybe those women would have not been as serious about serving and seeking God if they had a husband. (Not saying that that was the case.)

But don't be discouraged. All of my friends got married way before I did. I had gotten to the point that I would just "date" and enjoy my life. I moved to Atlanta and tried to do just that. Lo and behold, God sends someone my way that I would even consider marrying. And we just had our 3rd year anniversary last Saturday.

So, please seek the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all things will be added unto you. And you'll be able to give the testimony of a prayer answering God.

Stay blessed and encouraged.

Much love and respect.

 

[Pam Pam]

So I could have been married by now? Wow! I wish I could know wherew I missed it....

Thinking back, the few boyfriends I have had were first of all, not saved.... One who claimed to be saved ran up my phone bill (and maybe did some other things to me) and I attended his funeral a couple of years ago. My first boyfriend is still single and he has a tongue ring. He's got a great job though and I always admired his intelligence. There's one guy who might have been a potential but he didn't give me much of a signal of his interest toward me in between his marriages....

Oh yeah, there's one guy at my church who I did express my interest to because I thought he was interested in me but he told me that he had so many women coming at him he didn't know who to pick. The church buzz is that he STILL could be an option for me...

What's a girl to do? Where did I miss it?

Your posts always make me laugh. Kudos to you.

Of course, you know you didn't miss it. Everything happens in God's own time.

I could write a book on the subject but I tend to get "preachy" so I rarely comment to things on the board.

 

[Pam Pam]

. So it wasn't until after God changed some things in her and she got busy doing the work that God called her to do that her husband approached.

Girl, you have hit "me" on the head. This is my testimony regarding being a mommy.

I love kids. People used to always talk about me because I always had somebody's kids with me. I wanted nothing more than to be a mother.

I had told myself that if I didn't have kids by 30, I would become a foster mother. But instead, I packed my bags and moved to Atlanta to finish school (or so I thought.)

I moved to Atlanta and got married. Didn't see that one coming. I went down there to meet as many successful brothers as possible. But God had other plans for me.

The way everything went down for me in Atlanta was mind boggling. My already sporadic cycles became more sporadic. I am a moderator on a board for black women wanting to expand their families. As women were becoming pregnant, I was wondering if I would ever have a cycle. But because the women were so much fun to chat with, ttc became an almost non existent thought for me.

I'll never forget that I was shopping for our charity drive at work. I went to BCF and picked up a pair of 2T pants and almost lost it. I said, God, when will it be my turn??? I had never felt like that before. I literally almost lost it and had to catch myself. I composed, finished shopping, and left. Just the thought of that moment is bringing tears to my eyes as I type this. It was truly a scary moment for me because I know that God is a prayer answering God.

Well, to make a long story short, I think I was already pregnant or a few days from becoming pregnant.

I just knew I was in for the long haul to have a baby, after all, I didn't even ovulate and was finally diagnosed with PCOS in Oct 2004 after 5 years of trying to get answers. But because I was focused on helping others and giving without remorse, God saw desire and met my need.

And I am now the proud mommy of a 15m old girl.

PS: I got pg on Thanksgiving of all days.

 

[Pam Pam]

Good question.

I honestly have no answer, I just am intrigued by relationship discussions (particularly relating to black women) on a religious and secular level. But seriously though, I've often wondered the same thing.

I mean, it's all well and good to talk about waiting until marriage to have sex, but I wonder why we (general we) can't have discussions about what that means for women who may never get married at all or might not get married until very late in life. I'm not advocating that they just go on ahead and do it, but still... I'd like to hear some dialogue on this issue.

For example... take a couple like Britney and K-Fed and make them, say, around 18 years old. They have no business being married for a variety of reasons, but because they are married, sex is okay. Never mind that their marriage might be a total sham... they're married so it's all good.

Then on the other side, you have women who are truly trying to do the right thing and "fight" their sexual desires for decades because they haven't found a husband and want to remain virgins or celibate. Who knows, they may never get married, but sex is something they'd truly like to experience. Are they being punished for trying to do things right?

Again, I'm not advocating sex outside of marriage just because. I just think that in all of the talk that religious folks have about waiting and remaining pure, there isn't enough discussion of the reality of sexual denial... which isn't exactly a great thing when we are created as sexual beings as well.

Very good points you've stated.

But not getting too biblical, once a person engages in sexual activity, they become "married" in the eyesight of God. Intercourse was designed for marriage, period.

I don't know if you are familiar with Juanita Bynum's "No More Sheets." She talks about her experiences in great details and how she was still "married" to some of men she'd had intercourse with, i.e., soul ties.

I'm sure this can be debated.

I can't believe I'm opening up on the board. Goodness.

 

[Shimmie]

Bunny, I appreciate your remarks....

I'm downright ticked off at the institutional church because I feel betrayed. When I was in my 20s, the predominant message was to get married! Get married! GET MARRIED!!!!! I was mad that that message was getting stuffed down my throat because I wasn't interested in getting married until I was 30. I was having fun in college and excited about my career in journalism. BUt as I narrowed my life toward church and accepting the teaching that if I get in church and stay in church, that my husband would find me, a la Ruth and Boaz, Esther, Jacob and Rachel, etc. And then watching my friends get married...I was a bridesmaid in several weddings....

And then age 30 came and went. And 35 came and went.... And when a man said that they liked me but they liked sex more, so what's up? I had to say I like you, too and I want you, too but I love and want Jesus more so I have to wait until I get married. So I'm about 75 lbs overweight.... Sex weight... sex wait....

I've asked God for somebody to be accountable for these lies... these false messages. These unfulfilled promises. This wrong programming. I obeyed my parents. I obeyed the pastor. I OBEYED GOD!!!!! Now what?

Believe God, Baby. Believe God for what you want from Him. He's never failed us, Rehab...never. In all of my 24 years (of your know what), I've never been failed. Trust Him to give you what you want. Your desire is not sin, it's His design. I know it seems hard, but trust Him for what you truly want.

I live this each day, Rehab. He never fails, not even in marriage.

In each of our lives, God only asks one thing of us..."Be not afraid, ONLY BELIEVE" (Mark 5:36)

Isaiah 54:4: Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.

Rehab, when I first got saved, the pressure was on. My family ridiculed and taunted me called me a fool for loving Jesus and for trusting Him with my life and my children.

Hear this. I have 2 children; a son and a daughter. As time progressed in my growth with Jesus, the enemy did all that he could to shame my faith and for trusting my life in Jesus; especially with using the growth of my 2 children. I had only one prayer. That they would grow up and honor God with their lives and not live as sinners. Of course the enemy came in. My son got a girl pregnant and of course my family laughed and taunted me more and said I was still a fool for the prayers I believed in. I ALMOST thought God has forsaken me and my prayer, but God promised this ...

Isaiah 61:7-11

For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.

8 For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.

9 And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the LORD hath blessed.

10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

11 For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.

Rehab, even when it looks as if we've been forsaken, God proves otherwise. We still stand in faith and believe His promise to fulfill our dreams.

Rehab, I wanted my son to be married with a family....Yes, God did it!

I wanted my daughter to have a husband and a happy marriage...Yes God did it! All because I asked Him to. Rehab, I asked...I asked....I asked and He did not fail me. Even though my son jumped ahead of the dream, God made up for it. He's happily married with more children with his wife.

Rehab, everything that I have in life is because I asked God for it and He gave it to me far above and beyond that I could ever imagine.

Angel, please don't give up. Everything in my life was always surrounded by situations and circumstances contrary to what I wanted from God...it didn't appear possible. But He never failed me. I was never shamed...I chose to believe Him instead, no matter what.

 

[Pam Pam]

Here's another issue I've always wondered about... this discussion of seeing singleness as a blessing and using one's single period to focus on God is a very modern phenomenon. You didn't really hear anything like this from churches in the 50s, 60s, maybe even 70s because it was assumed that most people would get married.

Now I know that times have changed and people often got married back then because there was no other option. A "singles" culture didn't exist and women in particular had few avenues to do things on their own and basically had to find themselves a partner in their 20s or risk "old maid" status.

So, I recognize that singles ministries are a response to the changing times and believe me, I think their intentions are good. But in a way, I often question what I hear them saying, especially to women, because it seems to go counter to much that churches want to promote (the creation of healthy relationships and marriages, the building of families, etc.). How is singleness suddenly a gift from God when it wasn't 20 years ago? Why are churches promoting this way as opposed to taking on a proactive matchmaking role and attempting to bring single men and women together?

Maybe this is why I've never been totally down with some of the modern church perspectives on singleness, especially geared toward black women, because it's almost admitting defeat.

One final note -- I am NOT saying that being single is bad. Not at all. I am a single woman and not particularly upset about my status. I do want to be married but I don't feel called to that lifestyle at the moment. I am glad that I have the choice to NOT be married because it's something I might not have had 20-30 years ago. HOWEVER, there are many women who love the Lord and are faithful who do want to be married now and are having a difficult time finding someone. While I understand the church's desire to keep these women positive and focus them away from negative thoughts, I don't necessarily like the idea of telling them that singleness is a gift from God instead of being proactive in trying to help them find a partner.

I hope this made some sense!

I think it stems from Paul's writings in 1 Cor.

1 Corinthians 7:34


34There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.

I think that churches are using this school of thought to deal with its ever growing population of single people. But I also think it should prepare singles for marriage, way before they get engaged.

 

[Bunny77]

I think it stems from Paul's writings in 1 Cor.

1 Corinthians 7:34


34There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.

I think that churches are using this school of thought to deal with its ever growing population of single people. But I also think it should prepare singles for marriage, way before they get engaged.

Gotta get to bed, so I can't address everything you've written, but I wanted to thank you for pointing this out.

I agree with what you said. I have no problem with this school of thought and that it should be delivered to all singles, no matter when or even if they get married.

But I'd also like to see churches doing more to promote marriage for single members who have that desire and help facilitate the process more than they seem to do now.

 

[Lucia]

found some Lakita's blog

An Open Letter to Katha Pollitt
Well, our "Porny Poetry" debate has gone on so long I decided to start a new thread. If you don't know what I'm talking about, look here on the blog. Or if you don't have time to read the entire exchange but you want to get up to date, click here for the Independent Women's Forum's quick summary of our discussion, which appeared yesterday. (You know something's getting long when other bloggers have to provide Cliff Notes.)

For what it's worth, here are my thoughts. . . .


Hi Katha,

I am a 30-something, African-American female, who was one of 'those girls' who waited until I got married (3months ago) before I had sex. I can somewhat understand where you are coming from when you address the 'double standard' that exists in sexual relationships, or the notion of 'why should we as women shield our sexuality to protect a man's sexuality?' (I know I probably butchered your statement, so please forgive me) But I have had the unique privilege of having my father as my primary caretaker and four older brothers who all schooled me when it came to men. And if you had sat on the other side of my 'tutorials' growing up, women wouldn't argue so forcefully about this issue or have to read books like, He's Just Not that Into You.

I am so grateful that I skipped over a lot of relational 'drama' because I was trained to see it (or him) as he was walking my way. Some of these insights I'd love to share sometime (perhaps after the holidays, I have relatives coming into town). But let me reiterate something I often tell my young single girlfriends: I am currently president and CEO of my own company. All of my employees by the way are male. Soon I hope to hire a janitor for a new building I am thinking about buying. So, before he has the privilege of sitting accross my desk, in my office, and shake my hand, he will have to fill out an application (like all the other applicants) with his real name - not Mookie, Ray Ray, or whatever alias he's going by this week. I will need his social security number, last several places of employment, character references, etc. And this is just to clean my toilet!

How much less discretion do the majority of women have, who decide to take off all of their clothes and have sex? Yes women can do whatever they want, but is it wise? Especially in light of the fact that women pay the highest price when it comes to the consequences of having sex outside of marriage. We are 20 times more likely to contract an STD because we are recievers in this act (if you think condoms work, check out HPV) and men don't get pregnant.

Where does modesty come into play in all this? It goes back to a few things my father taught me as a girl. He was a military strategist and retired from the Air Force after 27 years. He said, 'if you don't know your opponent's strategy you don't have one.' I hate to put such a beautiful relationship in terms of combat but our culture forces us to engage in the 'him versus her' syndrome. Simply what is the average woman's strategy in male/female relationships? Is it companionship, love, communication? If this is indeed it, then the average guy is not going to notice her cute smile and bright eyes when her skirt is so short it is a belt. Why? Because like it or not, men and women are different and we function and operate off of two different sources of power (ask me about this some other time). Companionship, love, and communication are not the relationship strategies that the average guy wants in a sexually saturated culture. If you just want to attract a guy to have sex, and that is a top priority, by all means sport those crazy 'daisy dukes.'

How can I, a career woman, be taken seriously when I testify before Senate hearings, or conduct a corporate meeting if I was wearing lingerie? My husband however, loves my lingerie when we are alone together. What women don't understand by how they dress is that, you don't attract want you want . . . you attract what you are. Like it or not, clothes say a lot about us.

I know this is a long response but there is so much to say that hasn't been said. Hope to hear from you soon--

Lakita

http://blogs.modestlyyours.net/modestly_yours/2005/12/an_open_letter_.html

 

[Sweet C]

Very good points you've stated.

But not getting too biblical, once a person engages in sexual activity, they become "married" in the eyesight of God. Intercourse was designed for marriage, period.

I don't know if you are familiar with Juanita Bynum's "No More Sheets." She talks about her experiences in great details and how she was still "married" to some of men she'd had intercourse with, i.e., soul ties.

I'm sure this can be debated.

I can't believe I'm opening up on the board. Goodness.

Excellent points and testimony Pam Pam! Those who haven't seen No More Sheets, borrow it from someone, cause its truly a must see for the Christian woman.

RelaxerRehab, I just love the fact that you keep it real, and its a joy to read your posts. To deal with the sexual desire issue, all of that we must give unto God. One quality a Christian must learn is self-control, and if you don't learn how to give those desires (including sexual) over to God as a single, you might have that same test come up again when you get married. For example, a young man I went to high school with and had gotten saved struggled a lot with this issue. The most he went without since losing his virginity was about 2 months max. He was dating a young lady at his church and he kept falling into the same sexual pattern. So he read the Word, and since the Word does say its better to marry than to burn, he got married. Now not too long after he married, his wife became pregnant and had to be put on bedrest for the rest of the pregnancy. Now this man is married and has the "biblical right" to engage in sex, but current circumstances prevented this, so as a married man he had to learn how to control himself, and he had a difficult time, but if he had learned the principle before marriage, it would have been easier on him.