What do you think of this reasoning?

[BroadstreetBully]

I've had many older women and an older man tell me this...

Marry a man with something going for him so that if he cuts up and leaves, you'll have something to show for it. If you marry a broke man, he has nothing to lose, and you have nothing to gain if he shows his butt.

What do you think of this reasoning? Of course you should marry someone who is financially stable for obvious reasons; however, they feel that there is nothing worse than leaving a marriage having gained nothing.

 

[MissMeWithThatIsh]

..Idiotic..

 

[tiara76]

an investment

what would be even worse is if the well off man cut up, lost all his stuff and still left you then you really feel bamboozled

 

[Divine Inspiration]

How about marry a man with something going for him because you deserve it?

I don't think it's wise to make a decision about who you will marry based on how you "think" a divorce will go down. That's unwise on several levels. If your biggest concern about getting married is what you'll get and how you'll divorce, then marriage is probably not for you.

I can agree that there's nothing worse than leaving a marriage and having gained nothing - no experience, , no love, no clarity, no peace, no wisdom...and for those people to give you that advice, apparently they didn't.

 

[hopeful]

I always tell women to marry well, meaning all-around a good human being, a stable person, a hard-working man, a smart guy, someone who adores and loves you. I tell women to not listen to dreamers, look at what he has and what he is doing to progress, a lot of men trick women with talk of what they are going to do one day. Focus on the human being and his character, and if he is ambitious, smart, and hard-working, the money will come.

I do think the point some of the people are making to you is that it is just as easy to love a rich man as a poor man, so all things equal, why not marry the rich one, I'm not sure but I think that's what they are saying.

 

[MissYocairis]

I've heard that one. Also heard "marry a man who loves you more than you love him...that way he'll always work hard to keep you"

 

[Xerxes]

I do think the point some of the people are making to you is that it is just as easy to love a rich man as a poor man, so all things equal, why not marry the rich one, I'm not sure but I think that's what they are saying.

Oh my goodness, my mom says this to me all of the time and I've never heard anyone else say it until now. It seems sort of rude on the surface, but it really is true.

 

[JustKiya]

If all you gain (or try to gain, or think there is to gain) from a marriage - no matter how long - is material possessions, you missed out on 90% of what being married is all about.

It's a stupid piece of advice. Better to tell the woman to make sure she has her own ish, so single or married, divorced or widowed, she doing aiight.

 

[frizzy]

I would advise anyone to marry somebody that has something going for them.
I can't disagree with this advice.

ETA--Isnt' easier to fall in love with a successful man than it is with a broke one?

 

[treybaby2005]

If all you gain (or try to gain, or think there is to gain) from a marriage - no matter how long - is material possessions, you missed out on 90% of what being married is all about.

It's a stupid piece of advice. Better to tell the woman to make sure she has her own ish, so single or married, divorced or widowed, she doing aiight.[/quote]
And let the church say amen!

 

[JustKiya]

I would advise anyone to marry somebody that has something going for them.
I can't disagree with this advice.

ETA--Isnt' easier to fall in love with a successful man than it is with a broke one?

If part of what you love about a man/attracts you to a man is his money, of course it's 'easier'.

Success does not equal wealth, nor does failure equal brokeness - there are some well off men who are royal pieces of cow excretion, and some poor men who are the best men you'll ever meet.

And meeting/falling in love with a man with money doesn't mean he'll always have that money - business failure? Bankruptcy? Litigation? Fall in love with what a person possesses, rather than who a person is, and you are setting yourself up for divorce when as life progresses, that person loses what they 'had'.

 

[Mai Tai]

Why do you think so many professional athletes go back and marry their high-school sweethearts? Because these women had their back when they had nothing...

Women who offer this kind of advice typically do not have much going for them financially, or socially so they look at marriage as a "come up" or a chance to upgrade themselves to a different tax bracket. They typically end up alone and broke, because a lot of men can detect the gold digger in them a mile away, and sometimes hide assets because of this. Should you marry a man that has ambition, goals, and is actively working towards accomplishing these said goals...YES. Does he already have to be rich...NO. Do not mistaken a man with money, and financial success with a man that is successful in life overall.

Too mant women want a finished product when they too are works in progress. Makes no sense to me but ok...

 

[frizzy]

If part of what you love about a man/attracts you to a man is his money, of course it's 'easier'.

Success does not equal wealth, nor does failure equal brokeness - there are some well off men who are royal pieces of cow excretion, and some poor men who are the best men you'll ever meet.

And meeting/falling in love with a man with money doesn't mean he'll always have that money - business failure? Bankruptcy? Litigation? Fall in love with what a person possesses, rather than who a person is, and you are setting yourself up for divorce when as life progresses, that person loses what they 'had'.

I can't disagree with your advice, either.
It's a choice....but dependability, security and being able to provide for a family were on my list when I was shopping for a man/husband.

I don't have anything but conversation for a dude with nothing going on.

 

[JustKiya]

I can't disagree with your advice, either.
It's a choice....but dependability, security and being able to provide for a family were on my list when I was shopping for a man/husband.

I don't have anything but conversation for a dude with nothing going on.

And none of those things equal rich, well-off, or a man that can break you off a lil something something in divorce court.

There's a whole spectrum out there, without a doubt, and a man with nothing going on (and that means no goals, no aspirations, no education, and no purpose in life) is a huge gap from a broke man (which only implies he doesn't have a lot of money.)

 

[frizzy]

And none of those things equal rich, well-off, or a man that can break you off a lil something something in divorce court.

There's a whole spectrum out there, without a doubt, and a man with nothing going on (and that means no goals, no aspirations, no education, and no purpose in life) is a huge gap from a broke man (which only implies he doesn't have a lot of money.)

How did "being rich" come into the conversation? But for the record, I don't recommend broke guys with nothing going for them as a date, or a mate.

In the case of divorce, that same dependable type guy would likely do the right thing and provide for his children, and make sure a roof is over their heads.

 

[JustKiya]

How did "being rich" come into the conversation? But for the record, I don't recommend broke guys with nothing going for them as a date, or a mate.

In the case of divorce, that same dependable type guy would likely do the right thing and provide for his children, and make sure a roof is over their heads.

That was the implication (as I understood it) in the original post.....

I've had many older women and an older man tell me this...

Marry a man with something going for him so that if he cuts up and leaves, you'll have something to show for it. If you marry a broke man, he has nothing to lose, and you have nothing to gain if he shows his butt.

What do you think of this reasoning? Of course you should marry someone who is financially stable for obvious reasons; however, they feel that there is nothing worse than leaving a marriage having gained nothing.

I assumed that they meant material gain..... a house, a new car, a couple furs.

And I completely agree with you - a man with nothing going for him isn't worth a date, much less a wedding band. A broke man, on the other hand, might be worth both.

 

[likewtr4chklit]

That was the implication (as I understood it) in the original post.....



I assumed that they meant material gain..... a house, a new car, a couple furs.

And I completely agree with you - a man with nothing going for him isn't worth a date, much less a wedding band. A broke man, on the other hand, might be worth both.

I think this is where so many women miss the mark. My working class grandfather was never wealthy and never had much for material gain...but he is a GOOD MAN, who always worked hard, and loved his family with all of his ability.

 

[tiara76]

That was the implication (as I understood it) in the original post.....



I assumed that they meant material gain..... a house, a new car, a couple furs.

And I completely agree with you - a man with nothing going for him isn't worth a date, much less a wedding band. A broke man, on the other hand, might be worth both.

I concur...there is definitely a very big significant difference....

a man who has alot of material worth can easily be about or next to nothing when all of that is taken out of the equation.....

 

[BroadstreetBully]

Wow, I'm a little surprised at the responses.

I think I didn't do a good job of explaining that they meant.

They weren't saying...marry rich so that you can take his money when he leaves. They all advise that a woman should have her own.

They were saying that it's important that you marry a man with some financial stability and something to offer because 1.) if I bring something to the table, he needs to bring equal--preferably more because what a good woman has to offer is certainly worth something and 2.) a good woman naturally invests a lot in a man, she takes care of him, runs the household, and has his back; therefore, if he leaves she needs to be able to secure something out of the relationship that will keep her on her feet.

Being a golddigger is certainly NOT where it's at. I wouldn't listen to anyone who advises this. But they feel as though if you invest in a man who has nothing going for him, and something happens, he has nothing to lose...nothing to offer you once it's over. In other words, if as a woman I'm going to have your back (the way a good woman will), I need to know that if things don't go as planned, I will be secured something in return.

One must remember that we are all human, and we make mistakes. There's no guarantee that a man or woman will turn out to be the fairy tale being that we all hope they will be.

Now if there is still disagreement in this reasoning, please share. I love hearing different viewpoints.

 

[JustKiya]

What kind of things are you expecting him to offer you?

And why is a woman's value in herself, and a man's value in his pocketbook?

 

[tiara76]

Wow, I'm a little surprised at the responses.

I think I didn't do a good job of explaining that they meant.

They weren't saying...marry rich so that you can take his money when he leaves. They all advise that a woman should have her own.

They were saying that it's important that you marry a man with some financial stability and something to offer because 1.) if I bring something to the table, he needs to bring equal--preferably more because what a good woman has to offer is certainly worth something and 2.) a good woman naturally invests a lot in a man, she takes care of him, runs the household, and has his back; therefore, if he leaves she needs to be able to secure something out of the relationship that will keep her on her feet.

Being a golddigger is certainly NOT where it's at. I wouldn't listen to anyone who advises this. But they feel as though if you invest in a man who has nothing going for him, and something happens, he has nothing to lose...nothing to offer you once it's over. In other words, if as a woman I'm going to have your back (the way a good woman will), I need to know that if things don't go as planned, I will be secured something in return.

One must remember that we are all human, and we make mistakes. There's no guarantee that a man or woman will turn out to be the fairy tale being that we all hope they will be.

Now if there is still disagreement in this reasoning, please share. I love hearing different viewpoints.

thats cool if one operates on love as a form of investing and thinks of marriage as a business......we go into together as partners...what u got to bring to the table, i will show you what i got....lets sign this contract and the intention is for this business to be successful but just in case its not...i cant go into anything i might potentially lose out on.... i have my own... im just not into "giving" what I got just in case you know.....you dont give me anything back then Ima be assed out...and thats not how a successful business looking to "gain" operates, so you know that I can't take the potential risk

if another operates on love as giving and sharing and marriage as a union of two souls looking to experience and grow together who have emotional bonds to each other... the above may not resonate with them....depending on the people and their emotional maturity levels if it so happens the union ends they leave as friends who still love and support each other, wish the other well and got alot out of it while they were together and are on good terms and gained alot in ways that contribute to their character and spirit

which ever way or any other way that "works" for whoever is involved is all that matters

 

[Bunny77]

Wow, I'm a little surprised at the responses.

I think I didn't do a good job of explaining that they meant.

They weren't saying...marry rich so that you can take his money when he leaves. They all advise that a woman should have her own.

They were saying that it's important that you marry a man with some financial stability and something to offer because 1.) if I bring something to the table, he needs to bring equal--preferably more because what a good woman has to offer is certainly worth something and 2.) a good woman naturally invests a lot in a man, she takes care of him, runs the household, and has his back; therefore, if he leaves she needs to be able to secure something out of the relationship that will keep her on her feet.

Being a golddigger is certainly NOT where it's at. I wouldn't listen to anyone who advises this. But they feel as though if you invest in a man who has nothing going for him, and something happens, he has nothing to lose...nothing to offer you once it's over. In other words, if as a woman I'm going to have your back (the way a good woman will), I need to know that if things don't go as planned, I will be secured something in return.

One must remember that we are all human, and we make mistakes. There's no guarantee that a man or woman will turn out to be the fairy tale being that we all hope they will be.

Now if there is still disagreement in this reasoning, please share. I love hearing different viewpoints.

This is how I took it too.

I mean, I just hear of too many women today who are sacrificing so much of themselves (emotionally, physically AND financially) for some dude who has nothing, doesn't plan to have anything and isn't on his way to being about anything.

Then when it ends, these women are left with NOTHING and they're heartbroken. Dude just skips merrily along to the next woman. I think some older women are just confused seeing how some of us young folks just fall all over some no-count dude just because he's a dude and want to give our everything to him and he's done nothing to prove himself worthy of even the most minute level of investment in him.

So I see what they're saying, and I agree. I also agree that it's not about golddigging -- which as y'all know is a word I think is quite overused, especially in the black community -- and this is not about discounting a hard-working man or a younger man who is still making something of himself.

 

[tiara76]

This is how I took it too.

I mean, I just hear of too many women today who are sacrificing so much of themselves (emotionally, physically AND financially) for some dude who has nothing, doesn't plan to have anything and isn't on his way to being about anything.

Then when it ends, these women are left with NOTHING and they're heartbroken. Dude just skips merrily along to the next woman. I think some older women are just confused seeing how some of us young folks just fall all over some no-count dude just because he's a dude and want to give our everything to him and he's done nothing to prove himself worthy of even the most minute level of investment in him.

So I see what they're saying, and I agree. I also agree that it's not about golddigging -- which as y'all know is a word I think is quite overused, especially in the black community -- and this is not about discounting a hard-working man or a younger man who is still making something of himself.

when it comes to a woman "sacrificing" of herself emotionally and physically who end up with nothing its because she's starting out with nothing....and she's only doing something to "get" back...you get back what you put out

if a woman already is sitting in a place of love she gives of herself because she has nothing to lose...however....you still get back what you put out regardless...if you start with love and have it to give you get it back

if you dont have it and think you are giving it but are only doing so to get it in return it just means u didn't have it to begin with

and a woman who truly loves herself and knows herself only gives what she can afford to give

not what she can't stand to lose that comes to herself and finances

 

[Bunny77]

when it comes to a woman "sacrificing" of herself emotionally and physically who end up with nothing its because she's starting out with nothing....and she's only doing something to "get" back...you get back what you put out

if a woman already is sitting in a place of love she gives of herself because she has nothing to lose...however....you still get back what you put out regardless...if you start with love and have it to give you get it back

if you dont have it and think you are giving it but are only doing so to get it in return it just means u didn't have it to begin with

and a woman who truly loves herself and knows herself only gives what she can afford to give

not what she can't stand to lose that comes to herself and finances

This is all true, but the problem is, many of the women in these situations don't necessarily see it this way.

I have heard so many women say that they thought that giving money to a man, etc., was just part of being a "good girlfriend" or "good wife." They did love these men, but for whatever reason, the message that men should also be giving to them was not a part of their understanding... until it was too late.

If a woman hasn't seen examples of healthy relationships, or if she thinks that a man's constant "brokeness" (I know, not a word) is a "normal" part of a relationship, then she will continue to follow that type of pattern.

 

[s_terry]

This is how I took it too.

I mean, I just hear of too many women today who are sacrificing so much of themselves (emotionally, physically AND financially) for some dude who has nothing, doesn't plan to have anything and isn't on his way to being about anything.

Then when it ends, these women are left with NOTHING and they're heartbroken. Dude just skips merrily along to the next woman. I think some older women are just confused seeing how some of us young folks just fall all over some no-count dude just because he's a dude and want to give our everything to him and he's done nothing to prove himself worthy of even the most minute level of investment in him.

So I see what they're saying, and I agree. I also agree that it's not about golddigging -- which as y'all know is a word I think is quite overused, especially in the black community -- and this is not about discounting a hard-working man or a younger man who is still making something of himself.

Thanks Girl, I was just about to go there on this subject. I agree that a marriage should be a partnership and the goal is to help each other become better people. WITH THAT SAID......................................Wooossaaa


I believe a major problem with our relationships these days is that women are actually psyching themselves out to believe it's ok not to ask for NUTHIN!! People who are developed generally rise to their expectation. Expect nothing, get nothing. "I ain't a golddigger, I ain't a golddigger". I am so sick of that ish I don't know what to do. If I wanted to carry it all on my own then what the hell I need you for except maybe to make babies. Oh, like Jamie says "she got her own"- right. Makes me want to wretch. In other words don't ask for NUTHIN, but be willing to give all that you are as a woman and we are cool.

That is exactly the line of thinking that I believe toooo many women are falling into. Talk about being hoodwinked! Men should be men. Why on earth are we saying it's okay for us to be our best, carry it on our own if neccessary, be superwomen and then say in the next breathe to expect someone to make your life better, you are a golddigger?????

I find this most, most disturbing. Exactly the reason why single ladies have a problem finding suitable mates. " We got our own, cause we are Miss Independent".

I am a woman, I want to be treated like a woman, I want to be protected like a woman, I want my children to have a role model, and I sure as heck don't want to be the one that has to match toe to toe on the bills. If the only way we can keep our lifestyle is by the use of my entire check....Houston we have a problem.


Sorry ya'll. Real men want to take care of his family-woman. Period.


Sorry, this isn't directed toward anyone in this post. I guess it's obvious that this touchs a nerve. Thanks for allowing me to vent.

 

[tiara76]

This is all true, but the problem is, many of the women in these situations don't necessarily see it this way.

I have heard so many women say that they thought that giving money to a man, etc., was just part of being a "good girlfriend" or "good wife." They did love these men, but for whatever reason, the message that men should also be giving to them was not a part of their understanding... until it was too late.

If a woman hasn't seen examples of healthy relationships, or if she thinks that a man's constant "brokeness" (I know, not a word) is a "normal" part of a relationship, then she will continue to follow that type of pattern.

lol had to bust out laughing at a mans constant brokeness....thats funny

 

[tiara76]

Thanks Girl, I was just about to go there on this subject. I agree that a marriage should be a partnership and the goal is to help each other become better people. WITH THAT SAID......................................Wooossaaa


I believe a major problem with our relationships these days is that women are actually psyching themselves out to believe it's ok not to ask for NUTHIN!! People who are developed generally rise to their expectation. Expect nothing, get nothing. "I ain't a golddigger, I ain't a golddigger". I am so sick of that ish I don't know what to do. If I wanted to carry it all on my own then what the hell I need you for except maybe to make babies. Oh, like Jamie says "she got her own"- right. Makes me want to wretch. In other words don't ask for NUTHIN, but be willing to give all that you are as a woman and we are cool.

That is exactly the line of thinking that I believe toooo many women are falling into. Talk about being hoodwinked! Men should be men. Why on earth are we saying it's okay for us to be our best, carry it on our own if neccessary, be superwomen and then say in the next breathe to expect someone to make your life better, you are a golddigger?????

I find this most, most disturbing. Exactly the reason why single ladies have a problem finding suitable mates. " We got our own, cause we are Miss Independent".

I am a woman, I want to be treated like a woman, I want to be protected like a woman, I want my children to have a role model, and I sure as heck don't want to be the one that has to match toe to toe on the bills. If the only way we can keep our lifestyle is by the use of my entire check....Houston we have a problem.


Sorry ya'll. Real men want to take care of his family-woman. Period.


Sorry, this isn't directed toward anyone in this post. I guess it's obvious that this touchs a nerve. Thanks for allowing me to vent.

speaking solely for myself of course

I don't claim that "independent woman" role....yes of course if you want to always do everything by yourself you will get stuck doing it by yourself

when I talk about a woman giving of herself....I just mean she is authentic in her words and actions and they match her feelings and what she gives is authentic.....women who think they are giving "love" really arent...they are just trying to "secure" something they think will return them "love" and get men who use, abuse them and give them a whole bunch of whatever they feel inside back to them....

Im not even speaking of finances..a woman trying to "buy" a man is quite different than a woman who may do something for a man or help him out, that just means she doesn't have very much to offer and doesn't think her self worth is enough to keep him around....
every man that gets helped out by a woman isn't using her....the key is to knowing the difference and also only doing what you are able to do IF you are going to be doing something......

nothing wrong with wanting a man who has passions and drive and is doing something for himself....and one who wants to share that....its not about a woman asking for anything...if she is somebody he wants to spend time, energy and money on he just will..its that simple...if he feels he is the provider of her and his family that is what he will do.....she just has to be herself, she wont have to beg him or make him do it or do it herself....she just has to smile and say thank you and if she really does need something done for her she asks and its done if he can do it....she doesn't have to be a gold digger or anything else...

people take too many things to the extreme....

just like some women are tired of all the superficialness of having to look good for a man to go all out of their way for him to try and keep his attention or she's tired of feeling like she's "owing" him or getting the short end of the stick one way or the other she's all about being on that I dont need no man tip, Im independent.....some men get tired of having to "buy" or "bribe" a woman and get a whole bunch of superficial chicks who are only into him for his money and claim they love him and are all gung ho on the I ain't gonna do nuthin for nobody tip after it gets old and played out......

i have yet to meet a woman in a good place with herself (and i mean internally and externally, but esp internally) who can't find a man wanting to be with her who has alot of things going for himself including finances if thats what she's looking for....she has a few choices to pick from at that and they are people she actually wants to be with who go all out for her because they like doing for her and if she wants somebody to marry thats not a problem for her...win win situation all the way around the board

I will also say that I havent met that many in that place either

I do have my own and I don't need from a man...but I accept from a man who is giving in a genuine manner no problem.


thank you homie

appreciate it

you get more of what you appreciate

lol

 

[shenitab]

I am interpreting broke as not having any/much money i.e barely making it. I will say that I would not have married a broke man and I do not recommend it. Staying married is hard enough without having to deal with someone else's financial issues. Before I was married, I knew I wanted to have children and I did not want to bring home 100% of the bacon or have to fry it up in the pan 100% of the time. I wanted a man at least as good as my father. I did not learn until high school that he never graduated. He dropped out in the 11th grade to get a job to help take care of his family. He has now worked at the same company for 30+ years. He goes to work everyday. 5, 6, 7 days a week. I can remember when we were young and he would stay out late and party but by golly gee he would be up at 4 or 5 am getting ready for work. He had been laid off a few times and instead of waiting until he could get a job making the same amount on his regular job, he went out and took the less paying work he could find. He taught me a lesson, when you have kids, you have to provide for them by whatever way necessary. He can't say that he's not going to do a job that's beneath him or different from what he normally does. He has to bring a paycheck home.
It's not to say that a rich man is always going to take care of you or will be the best husband or father. But I wanted somebody who had a good track record. If a guy was broke, I wanted to know why he was broke. Was he a student, just started working, just got out of jail, paying a lot in child support, financially irresponsible? Not to say that I would not marry anyone in those situations, I might do it later. After they had proven themselves. But not right off the bat.
I have seen to many ladies doing well or trying to do well match up with a mate who ends up bringing them down. It is sad. Now I have been married for seven years and if there came a time that my husband was incapacitated and could not contribute to the family I would be a workaholic and trying to pay all the bills with a smile. I would be sweating bullets cause he has some big shoes for me to fill.
My other note is - be careful who you sleep with. Is the other person capable/able to financially/emotionally support you through a pregnancy? Hmm. Something to think about. I know I have enough friends with kids who are deadbeats. It was something I thought about. I wasn't trying to deal with it. If your man is not paying child support for his first child(ren) on a regular basis, what makes you think he will do it if you and him are not together?

 

[firecracker]

If your man is not paying child support for his first child(ren) on a regular basis, what makes you think he will do it if you and him are not together?

Now ain't that the truth!