What are the Basic Differences Between Religion and the Gospel

[makeupgirl]

What are the Basic Differences Between Religion and the Gospel?

Religion says, “Do good, keep on doing good, and eventually you will become good.' The gospel says, “First of all, you must become good by the grace of God, and then it shall follow as day follows night that you win do good.”

Religion says, “Tell the truth, keep on telling the Truth, and you will become honest.' 'The gospel says, “First of all be honest in heart and then you will tell the truth.”

Religion places the emphasis on principles, precincts. Religion places the emphasis on principles, precincts, codes and creeds. The Gospel places the emphasis on a Person.

Religion says. “attain” by your own deeds. The Gospel says “obtain” by what Jesus did.

Religion places the prime emphasis upon your doing. Religion places the prime emphasis upon your doing. The Gospel places the emphasis upon being.

Religion claims mans merit in the work he does; the Gospel calls on Gods mercy in the work that he did.

Religion says attempt the Gospel says accept to Receive.

Religion says 'try”; the Gospel says trust.

Religion says “develop yourself” the Gospel says deny yourself.”

Religion says man is good, the Gospel says man is not.

Religion is always threatened by Jesus' teaching on grace...Why?

Religion says, 'Do! Do this and do that and you might make it.” The gospel says, “It is done! Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, then you do your deeds out of love!”

Religion says 'save yourself; the Gospel says surrender yourself.
Salvation comes not by believing in God but in the gospel.

All religions recognize Jesus as a great teacher or prophet. however they all demote him to be just one of many other teachers and they will elevate man as having the potential to be just like him, almost every religion that has come along since Christ includes his name or teaching since he can’t be excluded. Yet among all these spiritual teachers there is only one who stands contrary to their opinion, Jesus.

The solution from the other religions vary in some ways but they all have a common denominator. That all state we can pull ourselves up by our own bootstraps. That man is inherently good.

Bahai's claim that by education we can see mankind have what Christ alone promises they deny that there is any sin to deal with. That Christ is only one who is God in a succession of manifestations, Baha'u'lla is greater despite that he is dead and buried and waiting to be judged.

Mormons- Mormons say There is no sin passed on . Christ died for only some of our sins not all of them. And that they receive salvation by working and obeying the laws and ordinances of the Mormon church.

Jehovah's Witnesses - To be right with God you must join their church and be found working going door to door when he comes or else your snuffed out.

As in Islam Jesus is a prophet in the line of many prophets and that Muhammad is greater. That he didn’t die for our sins nor did he resurrect. We can be cleansed from our sins by doing what is right. Hopefully he will accept us but there is no guarantees. All these religions have a common denominator and that is Works are involved for one to be accepted by God.

We can’t be left to our own opinions of who Jesus is but need to listen to what he said of himself .Either he told the truth or he lied. If it is not the absolute truth than we shouldn’t pay attention to anything he says and he is not a good teacher either.

While all the religions use Jesus, Jesus never quotes from any other writings than the bible. But it seems all the others quote from the bible and Jesus. Why? because anyone who recognizes good has to recognize Jesus , he was the ultimate good In a human being. Of course he was more than what would meet the eye he was God.

Religion may give you something to live by, but Christianity will give you something to die by.

Religion leans on books of instruction, while Christianity stands on the Book of inspiration. While many people die for what they believe is the truth no one dies for what they know is a lie, especially numerous followers (millions).

There are many gospels of supposition, but only one gospel that saves (1 Cor. I5: 1-4).

There may be a bit of truth in each religion, but Christianity alone is altogether true.

Religion talks about a god but it is only empty philosophy since it has no way of knowing if it is correct; Christianity alone reveals the true God. '

There is wide assortment of religion, but Christianity is unique, absolute, and final.

Acts 1:3 He also presented Himself alive after His suffering by many infallible proofs, being seen by them during forty days and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God.” these were written down

2 Pet 1:16-17: “For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty.

For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

Are there many ways to God? Jesus made it clear that most people are on the broad way, the interstate of life leads straight to hell (Matthew 7:13-14). Jesus made it very clear that “many “ religious leaders miss Heaven (vs. 21-23). Jesus exposed the religious hypocrites. He said they were headed for hell! (Matthew 23:33). Dear soul, are you on the broad way or the narrow way?

What does God's Word say about the way?
We need a savior not more rules and regulations for our behavior. We need the power of God for a change of heart .

What Doesn’t Save ​

A church can’t save. Salvation is not church membership but relationship. Worshipping can’t. One can worship God but for true worship to be done it must be in spirit and in truth, Your Baptism can’t change the fallen nature of man. You go down a dry sinner you’ll come up a wet one. can’t, worshipping can’t, your Baptism can’t change the nature of man. You go down a dry sinner you’ll come up a wet one.

Neither can keeping the laws, which is salvation by obedience. Or keeping a day such as the Sabbath day can’t, its only a shadow of the true substance which is greater.

Your good works and conscientious help and love to the poor do not merit gods favor and is actually a affront to what he offers freely by Christ.

Mary the mother of Jesus humanity can’t save either she needed help too, she’s just another saint in heaven praising the Lord for his salvation. the mother of Jesus humanity can’t save either she needed help too, she’s just another saint in heaven praising the Lord for his salvation.

Even your prayers can’t save, without you praying a one time prayer of repentance by faith all your prayers cannot merit right standing before God. If you don’t turn to your life over to God he can’t hear the prayer of a sinner.

Neither can knowledge or Doctrine, because if your right on everything and have not met the risen savior with a change of heart by a new nature its all for nothing. First comes grace then comes the true knowledge.

What saves then. Only God can save through Christ. No one can be good enough on their own. God has already done the work it is finished over 1960 yrs. ago. We are not saved by our own goodness, behavior or works but by grace.

Why in the world do you want to add to it today by something you can’t do. Jesus Christ who is God became man only once and died only once accomplishing what none of us can. He alone has the key to free someone from their jail cell of sin. This is Gods way, a simple single rd. that everyone can come to him by.

Gods way is a person so that even the children can come to him without complicating rules to remember . All religions claim to reach to God but Christianity is different it is God seeing our predicament and reaching down to man. He took the initiative out of love and we are given a choice to respond. No other religion has this simplicity.

Christianity is summed up in the person of Christ. If you take Buddha out of Buddhism, Mohammed out of Islam…,Krishna out of Hinduism…, Baha'u'lla out of Bahaism…you still have their teachings, they are all doing quite well without their teacher being alive today. If you take Christ out of Christianity, if he didn’t rise you have nothing. Religions “ point to' the graves of their a leaders, no matter how brave or how ingenious they all lie there waiting for their day to stand before the God they wanted to know; only Christianity points to an empty tomb

 

[makeupgirl]

Cont'

The difference is Jesus preached himself as the true and eternal God, the way is a person not rules, not religious service. Religion offers us a set of teachings and says, "Accept these; believe and follow these." The gospel presents a Person and says, "Accept Him; believe and follow Him." This does not mean we dispense with standards but it does mean we find the standards in a living savior who did them all perfectly.​

Do all Roads. Lead to God. Yes! They certainly do- but not all Roads lead to God with the same results. Only one Road leads to him in forgiveness, fellowship and eternal life. All other Roads lead to him in judgment, so the other religions are partially right. But I don’t want to be traveling on the rd of judgment with them. What are you hoping for on the day of reckoning. On the day of resurrection you can be raised in your sins or apart from them. How Are you going to be raised? Incorruptible or to suffer even more for your corruption. There are no second chances once its over. Its been said on the day we appear before him, we will find Gods love is greater than we thought, sin was more destructive and Jesus was more needed.

Religion is operated by the fallen nature, only those who believe the Gospel receive the Spirit and operate in God. Religion puts people in spiritual and psychological bondage, the Gospel frees someone into the ultimate liberation of their soul.

Religion is good views on life; the gospel is good news about eternal life.

Religion is good advice to man; the gospel is a glorious announcement to mankind.

Religion takes a man and leaves him as he is; the gospel takes a man as he is and makes him what he ought to be

Religion leads to an outer reformation; the gospel leads to an inner transformation. Once the inside is transformed the outward will certainly follow.

Religion whitewashes the truth; the Gospel washes white with the truth.

Religion often becomes a farce; the Gospel is always a force, it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes.

There are many religions for many cultures, but there is only one Gospel for all cultures for all time.

Many people are afraid thinking what will my friends think of me? It takes a strong person and individual thinker to make a decision on his own and not care about others opinions of himself. Do your friends care for your soul more than God?

The Bible asks what will a man give in exchange for his soul, trading in our religion for a relationship is not a loss but a eternal gain. Don't procrastinate today is the day of salvation!

info via here

 

[Galadriel]

What is up with the "I hate religion, but love Jesus" movement?

Christianity is a religion. There is nothing wrong with that. It is GOOD. It is the True religion.

I think when people (who identify themselves as believers) bash religion, maybe they're just bashing institutionalized religion. But didn't Christ institute a Church?

What Doesn’t Save ​

A church can’t save. Salvation is not church membership but relationship.

I agree that being a member of the Church isn't an automatic pass to Heaven. Salvation = Justification + Sanctification.
With that said, it is obvious that God's chosen vehicle or instrument to bring people to salvation is His Church.

Matthew 16:17-19 Christ tells Peter (Cephas) that he is Cephas, and on this Cephas He will build His Church, and He will give him the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, and whatever Cephas binds or looses on earth is bound and loosed in Heaven. Binding and loosing is very significant here, because in Jewish law, binding and loosing means the authority to permit or forbid (in religious and moral law).

Christ would not have given us His Bride, the Church, through which the Gospel is preached, and God's laws are upheld and proclaimed, if there were no use for her in His plan of salvation.

Worshipping can’t. One can worship God but for true worship to be done it must be in spirit and in truth,

The First Command God explicitly gives to mankind is to worship Him. Of course His people will worship Him in spirit and truth.

Your Baptism can’t change the fallen nature of man. You go down a dry sinner you’ll come up a wet one.

St. Peter declares to the crowd astounded by his preaching: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."26



The apostles and their collaborators offer Baptism to anyone who believed in Jesus: Jews, the God-fearing, pagans.27



Always, Baptism is seen as connected with faith: "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household," St. Paul declared to his jailer in Philippi. And the narrative continues, the jailer "was baptized at once, with all his family."28


1227 According to the Apostle Paul, the believer enters through Baptism into communion with Christ's death, is buried with him, and rises with him:

Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.29 The baptized have "put on Christ."30 Through the Holy Spirit, Baptism is a bath that purifies, justifies, and sanctifies.31


26 Acts 2:38.
27 Cf. Acts 2:41; 8:12-13; 10:48; 16:15.
28 Acts 16:31-33.
29 Rom 6:3-4; cf. Col 2:12.
30 Gal 3:27.
31 CE 1 Cor 6:11; 12:13.

Neither can keeping the laws, which is salvation by obedience.

Salvation is not something we earn, true, but keeping God's Law is part of our sanctification process and something God directly commands us to do.

Or keeping a day such as the Sabbath day can’t, its only a shadow of the true substance which is greater.

Keeping the Sabbath is God's fourth commandment.

Your good works and conscientious help and love to the poor do not merit gods favor and is actually a affront to what he offers freely by Christ.

If one depends on good works for justification, then that person is sorely mistaken. However good works in the sanctification process are pleasing to God and meritorious.

James 2:14-18 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it? So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead. Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works. James 2:26 For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead. Mt 16:27 For the Son of Man will come with his angels in his Father's glory, and then he will repay everyone according to his conduct. 1st Corinthians 3:13-14

• "Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
• If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward."

Mary the mother of Jesus humanity can’t save either she needed help too,

Who says she didn't need help too? We believe God redeemed her at the moment of her conception.

she’s just another saint in heaven praising the Lord for his salvation.

I agree she's a saint in Heaven praising God for her salvation, however she shares a unique relationship with Jesus Christ as His Mother.

Luke 1:28 "Hail, full of grace...the Lord is with thee."

Luke 1:48 "Generation after generation shall call me blessed..."

In a sense, Mary is the first Christian. She accepted Christ the Savior, the promised Messiah in her heart and miraculously by the power of the Holy Spirit, in her womb. He took His human flesh from her, was raised and loved by her, and when many of His disciples fled the Crucifixion, she stood there at the Cross.

Also, please be careful about separating Jesus' Divine Nature from His human nature. Jesus Christ is fully man AND fully God. Mary didn't just give birth to the "human nature" of Jesus--she gave birth to the God-Man. Jesus Christ is True Man and True God. His divinity was never lessened by becoming Incarnate, and His humanity was never lessened by possessing a Divine nature.

Even your prayers can’t save, without you praying a one time prayer of repentance by faith all your prayers cannot merit right standing before God. If you don’t turn to your life over to God he can’t hear the prayer of a sinner.

Some of these lines are vague and can apply to many Christian denominations (and even Judaism), and some of them are targeted at Catholicism. I'm not sure of any Judeo-Christian faith that states that praying will justify you or save you.

Prayer is communion with God, and it's part of the spiritual exercise of the Christian.

Neither can knowledge or Doctrine, because if your right on everything and have not met the risen savior with a change of heart by a new nature its all for nothing. First comes grace then comes the true knowledge.

Again, another vague sentence. Knowledge is important--in order to accept Christ, we must know about Him. In order to obey God's law, we must know it. In order to preach and teach others about the Gospel--we must know it. Doctrine is an explicitly defined belief, like the Holy Trinity. Doctrine is good because it helps us to know and understand the faith and God's truths.

 

[LucieLoo12]

This allll day long! I really do think this is a trick from the devil, i really do. When i hear people say stuff like I am spiritual but not religious, I get skeptical. Why? because alot of times when I hear them out, it is just a justification of why they dont want to stop committing certain sins and fully surrender. Not all cases, but most.

What is up with the "I hate religion, but love Jesus" movement?

Christianity is a religion. There is nothing wrong with that. It is GOOD. It is the True religion.

I think when people (who identify themselves as believers) bash religion, maybe they're just bashing institutionalized religion. But didn't Christ institute a Church?


.

 

[Galadriel]

This allll day long! I really do think this is a trick from the devil, i really do. When i hear people say stuff like I am spiritual but not religious, I get skeptical. Why? because alot of times when I hear them out, it is just a justification of why they dont want to stop committing certain sins and fully surrender. Not all cases, but most.

Seriously, I know we get flack all the time from the secularists about how "religion is evil...causes wars, etc." (never mind the fact that atheist-secular regimes in the 20th century killed more people than anyone else) however this move away from institutionalized Christianity to fluffy "Just me and Jesus" is why we have 40,000 denominations.

One can be part of the visible Church and love and follow Christ in their interior life (aka personal relationship with Christ).

 

[makeupgirl]

Look! I never post this to offend or to bash other religions. This is something that I was reading that God laid on my heart to share and post. Personally, if you're offended or a nerve was touched, maybe something in the article that stood out that may be bringing something to attention that needed to be brought up.

Also, Satan has been at work in this thread with some major trickery by trying to blind with what is the truth and what is sounds good. Sorry, that what God wants us to do aint pretty but when it comes to serving and obeying the Lord, we got to get over ourselves and do what he says to do.

Religion is man's attempt to reach God by their own efforts. Is anyone guilty of this? That's between you and God. But if there is one thing I've learned doing my walk with the Lord, nothing is by accident. There is a reason why I read that article, there is a reason why I was to post that article, and there is a reason for the reactions that will be or already given.

All I know is, I'm not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ because it is the power of salvation. I'm not afraid to stand up for what the gospel means, which is the death, burial, resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is not religion or doing what the world wants us to do.

Satan is laughing at those who say "i'm a christian" but have no relationship with Christ. He's laughing because he knows that these people still belong to him. He's laughing because although he want us true believers to slip up, he wants more than ever to hold on to the ones that still belong to him and ironically it's not those who boldly say "I don't want any part of being a Christian" "I don't want to deal with that mess" "I know I'm going hell". No it's those who say "I'm going to heaven and I know I'm saved because I tithe, I sing in the choir, I'm doing cartwheels in the name of Jesus, feeding the poor, not cussing, not having road rage, and I'm a good person" This is who he laughs at the most. It's his 24/7 sitcom line up.

Those that knows me on here knows that I don't speak (ok type) unless I truly have something to say. I guess it's not by accident either. God knows what he's doing. Listen to him by studying his word. Any day now he's coming back. and I'll leave it at that.

 

[dicapr]

I think the movement is a reaction to those in Christianity following the "rules" without the spirit of love or the understanding of grace behind those rules. Loving Jesus does not mean that they do not want to follow the teachings and commandments, but they realize the only way to truly please God is to worship in Spirit and Truth. Somewhere along the way churches began focusing more of the do's and dont's and neglected to emphasis the motivation of love behind each commandment. Some rejected Christianity based on the emphasis of rules and condemnation only to discover grace and love later in their journey. They now do the same things taught to them but with a different spirit and motivation. So instead of giving a long, drawn out explanation they just say they hate religion (the rules without love and grace) and love Jesus (serving God with gratitude and love).

 

[Galadriel]

Look! I never post this to offend or to bash other religions. This is something that I was reading that God laid on my heart to share and post. Personally, if you're offended or a nerve was touched, maybe something in the article that stood out that may be bringing something to attention that needed to be brought up.

I'm not offended, please don't take my post as an attack. I'm aware that the post you shared is someone else's writing, so the "you" in my response should be taken as a "general you" and not "you" specifically However, I do stand by my statements that there is a problem with the "I hate religion but love Jesus" mentality.

Also, Satan has been at work in this thread with some major trickery by trying to blind with what is the truth and what is sounds good. Sorry, that what God wants us to do aint pretty but when it comes to serving and obeying the Lord, we got to get over ourselves and do what he says to do.

What "trickery"?

Religion is man's attempt to reach God by their own efforts.

If that's how you define it, then that's your choice. Christianity is a religion, and it doesn't degrade the Christian faith in the least to say so.

All I know is, I'm not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ because it is the power of salvation.

Neither am I ashamed.

Satan is laughing at those who say "i'm a christian" but have no relationship with Christ. He's laughing because he knows that these people still belong to him.

You rashly judge those who may very well have a relationship with Christ and who also are members of the visible Church.

He's laughing because although he want us true believers to slip up, he wants more than ever to hold on to the ones that still belong to him and ironically it's not those who boldly say "I don't want any part of being a Christian" "I don't want to deal with that mess" "I know I'm going hell". No it's those who say "I'm going to heaven and I know I'm saved because I tithe, I sing in the choir, I'm doing cartwheels in the name of Jesus, feeding the poor, not cussing, not having road rage, and I'm a good person" This is who he laughs at the most. It's his 24/7 sitcom line up.

I think the article you posted confuses justification with sanctification. Not only does it passes judgment on those who participate in the visible Church, but it also hinges on heresy by attempting to separate Christ's Divine and human nature.

 

[auparavant]

Do they get baptised as per Christ's commandment? It would seem to me that it is an enticement to leave the tenets of the faith and the form of the church. Anyone should be careful about it.

 

[Galadriel]

I think the movement is a reaction to those in Christianity following the "rules" without the spirit of love or the understanding of grace behind those rules. Loving Jesus does not mean that they do not want to follow the teachings and commandments, but they realize the only way to truly please God is to worship in Spirit and Truth. Somewhere along the way churches began focusing more of the do's and dont's and neglected to emphasis the motivation of love behind each commandment. Some rejected Christianity based on the emphasis of rules and condemnation only to discover grace and love later in their journey. They now do the same things taught to them but with a different spirit and motivation. So instead of giving a long, drawn out explanation they just say they hate religion (the rules without love and grace) and love Jesus (serving God with gratitude and love).

I agree that some people just do the "outward motions" without cultivating interior holiness (sanctification), but the article posted condemned several aspects of Christianity, especially within Catholic Christianity.

"Mary doesn't save,"...umm, who said she did?
"Baptism leaves you a sinner and has nothing to do with salvation"...even though Scripture demonstrates otherwise
"The Church doesn't save," Christ saves through His Church
"Prayer doesn't save" --who said it did? Who teaches this?
"Doctrine doesn't save"--doctrine is an explicit definition of God's revealed truths of religion. Things like the Trinity, Christ's Divinity, etc. are all "doctrine" These are extremely important.

It takes sacraments and even the concept of Christian Doctrine and say "they don't save" even though it never mentions who actually believes or teaches that these things save. In other words, the article condemns and lashes out at aspects of Christianity that are actually good, that we are called by God to fulfill, in favor of a "Just Jesus and me" mentality.

 

[dicapr]

I agree that some people just do the "outward motions" without cultivating interior holiness (sanctification), but the article posted condemned several aspects of Christianity, especially within Catholic Christianity.

"Mary doesn't save,"...umm, who said she did?
"Baptism leaves you a sinner and has nothing to do with salvation"...even though Scripture demonstrates otherwise
"The Church doesn't save," Christ saves through His Church
"Prayer doesn't save" --who said it did? Who teaches this?
"Doctrine doesn't save"--doctrine is an explicit definition of God's revealed truths of religion. Things like the Trinity, Christ's Divinity, etc. are all "doctrine" These are extremely important.

It takes sacraments and even the concept of Christian Doctrine and say "they don't save" even though it never mentions who actually believes or teaches that these things save. In other words, the article condemns and lashes out at aspects of Christianity that are actually good, that we are called by God to fulfill, in favor of a "Just Jesus and me" mentality.

I see your point. However, I take those statements to say that going through those motions without a converted heart means nothing. I think we can agree that church, baptism, doctrine are pillars of the faith. However, if one lacks understanding and conversion going through the motions means nothing. We need both faith and works.

 

[Sharpened]

What is up with the "I hate religion, but love Jesus" movement?

After studying the NT, I see that the church system is not what they practiced and others are taking note of this. Religion always turns the focus on self instead of the Kingdom of God:

I want to believe as I want.
Do what is best for you.
This is what I feel.
I find this beautiful and relevant.
See how nice, loving, peaceful I am?
I’m trying to be nice…
My religion (denomination) is the way. See how all those others are wrong?
All religions lead to God.

Christianity is a religion. There is nothing wrong with that. It is GOOD. It is the True religion.

Jesus criticized religion because it had extra, unnecessary rules, making the power of God’s words of no effect. He always referred to the Kingdom of God (Heaven) and being a part of that. The Kingdom of God is not religion.

I think when people (who identify themselves as believers) bash religion, maybe they're just bashing institutionalized religion. But didn't Christ institute a Church?

Jesus did not start an institution and neither did the Apostles. We are to be a Temple of little stones made without hands (man’s will or influence). The Holy Spirit is the mortar that holds us together.

I agree that being a member of the Church isn't an automatic pass to Heaven. Salvation = Justification + Sanctification.

With that said, it is obvious that God's chosen vehicle or instrument to bring people to salvation is His Church.

No, the chosen way is Christ through His Holy Spirit. We are the Body; He is the Head. The Body is nothing without the Head.

Matthew 16:17-19 Christ tells Peter (Cephas) that he is Cephas, and on this Cephas He will build His Church, and He will give him the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, and whatever Cephas binds or looses on earth is bound and loosed in Heaven. Binding and loosing is very significant here, because in Jewish law, binding and loosing means the authority to permit or forbid (in religious and moral law).

This is when a study of the Greek—the original language of the NT (not Aramaic either)—is essential. The name Peter (Petros) means pebble, little rock, and broken piece of rock. The word rock (petra) is only used four times in the NT and one of these refers to Christ being the rock (1 Corinthians 10:4). Also, throughout the entire Bible both the words rock and stone (lithos in the Greek) symbolize God and His power over the Earth.

The deeper meaning of this passage is that Jesus was also talking to future generations (little stones held together by the Holy Spirit) until the end of the age when the Evangel had been completely spread. Peter himself strengthens this position in 1 Peter 2:4-10

Christ would not have given us His Bride, the Church, through which the Gospel is preached, and God's laws are upheld and proclaimed, if there were no use for her in His plan of salvation.

The Bride is for Him, a gift from Father to Son, at the end of the age. Right now, we are the Ekklesia, the Body of Christ. Let us not exalt our current position in the grand scheme of things.

The First Command God explicitly gives to mankind is to worship Him. Of course His people will worship Him in spirit and truth.

If believers actually did serve Him in spirit and in truth, these current divisions would have never happened. He predicted these things would happen, so no one should be surprised.

St. Peter declares to the crowd astounded by his preaching: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."26

The apostles and their collaborators offer Baptism to anyone who believed in Jesus: Jews, the God-fearing, pagans.27

Always, Baptism is seen as connected with faith: "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household," St. Paul declared to his jailer in Philippi. And the narrative continues, the jailer "was baptized at once, with all his family."28

1227 According to the Apostle Paul, the believer enters through Baptism into communion with Christ's death, is buried with him, and rises with him:

Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.29 The baptized have "put on Christ."30 Through the Holy Spirit, Baptism is a bath that purifies, justifies, and sanctifies.31

26 Acts 2:38.
27 Cf. Acts 2:41; 8:12-13; 10:48; 16:15.
28 Acts 16:31-33.
29 Rom 6:3-4; cf. Col 2:12.
30 Gal 3:27.
31 CE 1 Cor 6:11; 12:13.

There is a baptism many fail to mention and it is THE most important one: the baptism of the Holy Spirit (fire and spirit as John the Baptist mentioned). Water baptism is not enough (Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:26 and 33, Acts 1:5, Acts 2:4, Acts 11:15-17, Acts 19:1-6). That is what causes the change, the regeneration, the vital connection to the Father.

Are people making sure they have received this? I received this but I did not go to church for that to happen. I did the water one later so my sister would leave it alone (Acts 10:47), the first and last time I stepped into that particular place. My older child also has received the Spirit’s baptism (fascinating experience that was) but not water. Right now, the Lord is working on his prayer life and has not mentioned the water one at all.

Keeping the Sabbath is God's fourth commandment.

Sabbath means rest—do nothing, do not go to worship either. Jesus took it to another level by teaching that being continuously in His will is rest from our own labors.

I agree she's a saint in Heaven praising God for her salvation, however she shares a unique relationship with Jesus Christ as His Mother.

Luke 1:28 "Hail, full of grace...the Lord is with thee."

Luke 1:48 "Generation after generation shall call me blessed..."

In a sense, Mary is the first Christian. She accepted Christ the Savior, the promised Messiah in her heart and miraculously by the power of the Holy Spirit, in her womb. He took His human flesh from her, was raised and loved by her, and when many of His disciples fled the Crucifixion, she stood there at the Cross.

Also, please be careful about separating Jesus' Divine Nature from His human nature. Jesus Christ is fully man AND fully God. Mary didn't just give birth to the "human nature" of Jesus--she gave birth to the God-Man. Jesus Christ is True Man and True God. His divinity was never lessened by becoming Incarnate, and His humanity was never lessened by possessing a Divine nature.

No one is downplaying who Jesus is, but playing up Mary is just as bad. She would be horrified at the level of adoration given her which should go to Jesus alone.

Some of these lines are vague and can apply to many Christian denominations (and even Judaism), and some of them are targeted at Catholicism. I'm not sure of any Judeo-Christian faith that states that praying will justify you or save you.

“Come on up to the altar and accept Christ!” One does not accept Christ; He chooses who He wants!

“Say this Sinner’s Prayer and you will be saved.” Also, not biblical.

Prayer is communion with God, and it's part of the spiritual exercise of the Christian.

Other religions do this as well, so what sets the believer apart from the others? The fact that we are at war on the spiritual tip is a big one. Prayer is more than an exercise, but to grow and solidify our connection to Him and ask Him how each of us are to serve Him. Prayer also leads to us commanding the natural and supernatural by His name (power, authority).

Neither can knowledge or Doctrine, because if your right on everything and have not met the risen savior with a change of heart by a new nature its all for nothing. First comes grace then comes the true knowledge.

Again, another vague sentence. Knowledge is important--in order to accept Christ, we must know about Him. In order to obey God's law, we must know it. In order to preach and teach others about the Gospel--we must know it. Doctrine is an explicitly defined belief, like the Holy Trinity. Doctrine is good because it helps us to know and understand the faith and God's truths.

What this person is talking about is intellectualism and self-righteousness, which gives man the glory, believing his mind and behavior are good enough for God, usually in comparison to others. This is why He prefers lesser vessels (the foolish, the humble, poor in spirit) to get the job done.

This allll day long! I really do think this is a trick from the devil, i really do. When i hear people say stuff like I am spiritual but not religious, I get skeptical. Why? because alot of times when I hear them out, it is just a justification of why they dont want to stop committing certain sins and fully surrender. Not all cases, but most.

Surrender to whom? Religion or Christ? Too many hypocrites (actors) practicing religion and people get tired of it. Religion is not the answer or this would not be an issue. Religion has failed for the Evangel in full power is not being wielded as it should be. That is why the number of believers seeking the Kingdom outside of the status quo is increasing.

 

[Galadriel]

I see your point. However, I take those statements to say that going through those motions without a converted heart means nothing. I think we can agree that church, baptism, doctrine are pillars of the faith. However, if one lacks understanding and conversion going through the motions means nothing. We need both faith and works.

What took two pages to post, could've easily been said the way that you just said it (and I agree with you).

The wording and tone of the article makes it seem as if these things in and of themselves are bad, or not true Christianity, or contrary to growing close to Christ.

 

[Galadriel]

After studying the NT, I see that the church system is not what they practiced and others are taking note of this. Religion always turns the focus on self instead of the Kingdom of God:

The Church is what they practiced because Our Lord establishes a Church and the Apostles lead it. The purpose of the Church is to be God's vehicle or instrument of salvation on Earth (we preach the Gospel, people hear the Gospel, are converted and baptized, the Church adminsiters the sacraments, the Church teaches and defends the moral and theological truths revealed in Scripture and taught by the Apostles).

I want to believe as I want.
Do what is best for you.
This is what I feel.
I find this beautiful and relevant.
See how nice, loving, peaceful I am?
I’m trying to be nice…
My religion (denomination) is the way. See how all those others are wrong?
All religions lead to God.

That's not "religion," those are erroneous or superficial beliefs/statements.

Jesus criticized religion because it had extra, unnecessary rules, making the power of God’s words of no effect.

No, He criticized hypocrisy (teaching/proclaiming one thing but living or doing to the contrary) and legalism (adherence to Mosaic Law for the sake of the Law and forgetting why God gave it to begin with), not religion.

He always referred to the Kingdom of God (Heaven) and being a part of that. The Kingdom of God is not religion.

I think you're taking a mindset/attitude you don't like ("Phariseeism", legalism, hypocrisy), and calling it "religion."

Jesus did not start an institution and neither did the Apostles.

Jesus gives Peter authority over His Church Matthew 16:17-19

Paul:

And from Miletus [Paul] sent to Ephesus and called the elders of the church. When they had come, he said to them, " … Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among whom the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the Church of God. (Acts 20:17,18,28).​

Peter:

I exhort the elders who are among you … to shepherd the flock of God which is among you, overseeing them. (1 Pet. 5:1-2).​

We are to be a Temple of little stones made without hands (man’s will or influence). The Holy Spirit is the mortar that holds us together.

The Bible says we are temples of the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit dwells in us by God's grace through baptism.

No, the chosen way is Christ through His Holy Spirit. We are the Body; He is the Head. The Body is nothing without the Head.

Paul says salvation comes by hearing the Gospel, and the Gospel must be preached. The Church, the Body of Christ, is God's instrument of spreading the Gospel throughout the earth. Yes, Christ is the Head of the Church, but the Church is still His chosen instrument.

This is when a study of the Greek—the original language of the NT (not Aramaic either)—is essential. The name Peter (Petros) means pebble, little rock, and broken piece of rock. The word rock (petra) is only used four times in the NT and one of these refers to Christ being the rock (1 Corinthians 10:4). Also, throughout the entire Bible both the words rock and stone (lithos in the Greek) symbolize God and His power over the Earth.

Christ spoke in Aramaic, that is why Peter is called Cephas. In Greek it would be Petros (and English, Peter).

The Bride is for Him, a gift from Father to Son, at the end of the age. Right now, we are the Ekklesia, the Body of Christ. Let us not exalt our current position in the grand scheme of things.

This is not supported by Scripture. The Church is both the Body and Bride of Christ. We are not waiting to be given to Christ.

If believers actually did serve Him in spirit and in truth, these current divisions would have never happened. He predicted these things would happen, so no one should be surprised.

Division happens because of sin. Christianity on Earth still struggles, and as humans we fail; however God's grace will see us through. It is God's will that we all be one Church. "One Lord, one faith, one baptism..."

There is a baptism many fail to mention and it is THE most important one: the baptism of the Holy Spirit (fire and spirit as John the Baptist mentioned). Water baptism is not enough (Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:26 and 33, Acts 1:5, Acts 2:4, Acts 11:15-17, Acts 19:1-6). That is what causes the change, the regeneration, the vital connection to the Father.

Water baptism was done by John the Baptist. The baptism administered by the Apostles and the Bishops (Episkopos) and Priests (Presbyters) in the NT is of the water and the Holy Spirit.

Are people making sure they have received this? I received this but I did not go to church for that to happen. I did the water one later so my sister would leave it alone (Acts 10:47), the first and last time I stepped into that particular place. My older child also has received the Spirit’s baptism (fascinating experience that was) but not water. Right now, the Lord is working on his prayer life and has not mentioned the water one at all.

So...are you saying being baptized (with water) is unnecessary?

No one is downplaying who Jesus is, but playing up Mary is just as bad. She would be horrified at the level of adoration given her which should go to Jesus alone.

It is your (misguided) opinion that Mary is "adored." I would put forth that in an effort to downplay Mary (because of a lack of understanding of her position within Catholicism) that a person may inadvertently commit a theological error (that error being the denial that Jesus Christ possesses both fully human and fully divine natures which exist in a hypostatic union within His one Person).

“Come on up to the altar and accept Christ!” One does not accept Christ; He chooses who He wants!

Are you saying we do not freely accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior?

“Say this Sinner’s Prayer and you will be saved.” Also, not biblical.

The sinner's prayer may not be in the Bible, but it is a pious expression of Biblical principles, and asks for Jesus' mercy and forgiveness.

What this person is talking about is intellectualism and self-righteousness, which gives man the glory, believing his mind and behavior are good enough for God, usually in comparison to others. This is why He prefers lesser vessels (the foolish, the humble, poor in spirit) to get the job done.

To know and understand what the Gospel is, why Jesus died for us, and the ability to examine and discern between true doctrines and false ones, right morality and theology and erroneous ones, is not "intellectualism" or "self-righteousness."

 

[aribell]

I think the important thing is that people can see the difference between followers of Christ who come together to carry out the Lord's work--even in an organized fashion-- and a spiritual or religious institution. I do not believe the Church is, or ever was intended to be institutionalized, no matter how organized it might be. They're not the same. And by institutionalized I mean that we have structures of Christianity and offices and bodies that can appear to completely fulfill their mission without one genuine convert to Christ--that move forward regardless of the leading and power of the Holy Spirit. They are self-sustaining, self-promoting, and can survive on human effort alone. Just like Hinduism exists without the power of the Holy Spirit, just like Islam exists without the Lordship of Christ, there is also a Christianity that is sustained by the efforts and devotion of those in the institution rather than sustained by Christ.

Like Jesus told the Angel of the church at Sardis in Revelation, "You have a name that you are alive, but you are dead." And in the Gospels, not all of the religious Jewish leaders were hypocrites; but they all were called to leave the externals of the law for the substance of Christ. Religion is what is left when you take out genuine faith in Christ, but all the externals are still present. Again, all we have to do is look at any other major religion--Islam, Hinduism, even Mormonism now--to see that you can have a very active and growing religious institution that is not filled with Christ. There are Christian versions of the same thing.

 

[fifi134]

^ We are waiting to be given to Christ, and it is supported by Scripture in Revelation 19:6-8:

"And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, “Alleluia! For the[d] Lord God Omnipotent reigns! Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready. And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints."

 

[aribell]

^ We are waiting to be given to Christ, and it is supported by Scripture in Revelation 19:6,7

"And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, “Alleluia! For the[d] Lord God Omnipotent reigns! Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready. And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints."

I don't understand what you are trying to say.

 

[fifi134]

I don't understand what you are trying to say.

nicola.kirwan I started forming this post before you posted . I was referring to Galadriel.

 

[makeupgirl]

What is up with the "I hate religion, but love Jesus" movement?

Christianity is a religion. There is nothing wrong with that. It is GOOD. It is the True religion.

I think when people (who identify themselves as believers) bash religion, maybe they're just bashing institutionalized religion. But didn't Christ institute a Church?


No, Christianity is not a religion. It's about a relationship with Christ. 2nd Cor 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." Religion is man's attempt to reach God, while Christianity is God's attmept to reach man through the gospel of Christ.

I agree that being a member of the Church isn't an automatic pass to Heaven. Salvation = Justification + Sanctification.
With that said, it is obvious that God's chosen vehicle or instrument to bring people to salvation is His Church.

Matthew 16:17-19 Christ tells Peter (Cephas) that he is Cephas, and on this Cephas He will build His Church, and He will give him the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, and whatever Cephas binds or looses on earth is bound and loosed in Heaven. Binding and loosing is very significant here, because in Jewish law, binding and loosing means the authority to permit or forbid (in religious and moral law).

Christ would not have given us His Bride, the Church, through which the Gospel is preached, and God's laws are upheld and proclaimed, if there were no use for her in His plan of salvation.

Christ didn't give us his bride, the church. The church aka the body of Christ aka the bride of Christ was given to him. He is the church's bridegroom.

The First Command God explicitly gives to mankind is to worship Him. Of course His people will worship Him in spirit and truth.



St. Peter declares to the crowd astounded by his preaching: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."26



The apostles and their collaborators offer Baptism to anyone who believed in Jesus: Jews, the God-fearing, pagans.27



Always, Baptism is seen as connected with faith: "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household," St. Paul declared to his jailer in Philippi. And the narrative continues, the jailer "was baptized at once, with all his family."28


1227 According to the Apostle Paul, the believer enters through Baptism into communion with Christ's death, is buried with him, and rises with him:

Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.29 The baptized have "put on Christ."30 Through the Holy Spirit, Baptism is a bath that purifies, justifies, and sanctifies.31

But baptism does not save anyone. IF that were true, then I was saved at age 7 when I had no idea what was going on. A lot of people are saved but are not baptized. Those who come to a saving knowledge say on their deathbed, or in hospitals, psych wards, prison, etc they may not have the chance to be baptized. It doesn't make them faithless or not a believer because they weren't. It's the blood of Christ that purifies the believer, not the actual baptism.
26 Acts 2:38.
27 Cf. Acts 2:41; 8:12-13; 10:48; 16:15.
28 Acts 16:31-33.
29 Rom 6:3-4; cf. Col 2:12.
30 Gal 3:27.
31 CE 1 Cor 6:11; 12:13.




Salvation is not something we earn, true, but keeping God's Law is part of our sanctification process and something God directly commands us to do.

We're under grace, no longer under law. That dispensation is OT. We're still in the dispensation of grace. So following the law is obedience but not apart of his grace that saves us.

Keeping the Sabbath is God's fourth commandment.



If one depends on good works for justification, then that person is sorely mistaken. However good works in the sanctification process are pleasing to God and meritorious.

James 2:14-18 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it? So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead. Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works. James 2:26 For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead. Mt 16:27 For the Son of Man will come with his angels in his Father's glory, and then he will repay everyone according to his conduct. 1st Corinthians 3:13-14

• "Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
• If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward."

Who says she didn't need help too? We believe God redeemed her at the moment of her conception.



I agree she's a saint in Heaven praising God for her salvation, however she shares a unique relationship with Jesus Christ as His Mother.

Luke 1:28 "Hail, full of grace...the Lord is with thee."

Luke 1:48 "Generation after generation shall call me blessed..."

In a sense, Mary is the first Christian. She accepted Christ the Savior, the promised Messiah in her heart and miraculously by the power of the Holy Spirit, in her womb. He took His human flesh from her, was raised and loved by her, and when many of His disciples fled the Crucifixion, she stood there at the Cross.

Also, please be careful about separating Jesus' Divine Nature from His human nature. Jesus Christ is fully man AND fully God. Mary didn't just give birth to the "human nature" of Jesus--she gave birth to the God-Man. Jesus Christ is True Man and True God. His divinity was never lessened by becoming Incarnate, and His humanity was never lessened by possessing a Divine nature.


Mary was not the first christian. The first Christians was at the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came upon them in Acts 2. God wants all the glory and honor and does not want it to be shared with anyone else. Mary was chosen as a vessel to carry Jesus and to be his mother but she needed him as much as everyone else needed him. Her faith and belief in the coming messiah is what the OT saints believed in. The looked toward the cross, whereas we look back at the cross. But still Christ died for past, present, and future sins; they believed in Christ to come and we believe that he came. Correct, Jesus was 100% God and 100% man that took on human flesh, was born of the virgin Mary, and grew up as a man. He was still 100% God at the time he was growing up. His ministry didn't start until he was 30. But even when he was on earth, the trinity was always active.... see Matt 3:16-17

Some of these lines are vague and can apply to many Christian denominations (and even Judaism), and some of them are targeted at Catholicism. I'm not sure of any Judeo-Christian faith that states that praying will justify you or save you.

Prayer is communion with God, and it's part of the spiritual exercise of the Christian.



Again, another vague sentence. Knowledge is important--in order to accept Christ, we must know about Him. In order to obey God's law, we must know it. In order to preach and teach others about the Gospel--we must know it. Doctrine is an explicitly defined belief, like the Holy Trinity. Doctrine is good because it helps us to know and understand the faith and God's truths.

I actually received Christ as Lord and Savior when I didn't know anything about him. I mean growing up we learned that Jesus died for our sins but I never knew why. When I heard the gospel for the first time, I believe and received it right there. I listened as the Holy Spirit spoke to my heart. I didn't learn more about Jesus until I started my spiritual walk with him and I'm still growing.

 

[makeupgirl]

I'm not offended, please don't take my post as an attack. I'm aware that the post you shared is someone else's writing, so the "you" in my response should be taken as a "general you" and not "you" specifically However, I do stand by my statements that there is a problem with the "I hate religion but love Jesus" mentality.


I mean "you" in the general sense. I'm sorry if you took it personally.
What "trickery"?

Even if I didn't mention it, Satan is always at work. Everywhere.

If that's how you define it, then that's your choice. Christianity is a religion, and it doesn't degrade the Christian faith in the least to say so.


No religion is not Christianity and Christianity is not a religion (im sorry i'm typing this in bed winding down) No, actually I googled "Religion is man's attempt to reach God" when I first heard it in bible study and was shocked at the amount of hits I got. It's definitely not from me.

Neither am I ashamed.




You rashly judge those who may very well have a relationship with Christ and who also are members of the visible Church.

I do apologize if it appears that I'm casting judgment but I'm honestly not. I care about everyone's (even those I'm not cool with) salvation and it's our job as Christians to spread the gospel full and free.

I think the article you posted confuses justification with sanctification. Not only does it passes judgment on those who participate in the visible Church, but it also hinges on heresy by attempting to separate Christ's Divine and human nature.

I don't think it passed judgment but more like breaking it down on what the difference between Religion and the Gospel. Religion is not going to get anyone in heaven or a relationship with Christ. But the gospel of Christ is what saves us when we believe and accept. We make it personal when we confess that we are sinners and that we need Jesus in our lives to save us. Remember that Jesus died for the sinner, not the saint. There is a lot of folk out here in the world that think they are saved by religion but the don't have a relationship with Christ.

 

[Galadriel]

I think the important thing is that people can see the difference between followers of Christ who come together to carry out the Lord's work--even in an organized fashion-- and a spiritual or religious institution. I do not believe the Church is, or ever was intended to be institutionalized, no matter how organized it might be. They're not the same. And by institutionalized I mean that we have structures of Christianity and offices and bodies that can appear to completely fulfill their mission without one genuine convert to Christ--that move forward regardless of the leading and power of the Holy Spirit. They are self-sustaining, self-promoting, and can survive on human effort alone. Just like Hinduism exists without the power of the Holy Spirit, just like Islam exists without the Lordship of Christ, there is also a Christianity that is sustained by the efforts and devotion of those in the institution rather than sustained by Christ.

I understand and agree with your underlying concept that there are people who will say, "Yes, I'm a Christian," or "Yes, I attend such-and-such church," and that's as far as they go, with no real depth or commitment. I agree with that.

However, the article that was posted by OP is not saying that, and if it's trying to say that, it's saying it rather terribly.

It portrays baptism, the visible Church, prayer, etc. as things that are lacking in God's grace and lacking in importance when Scripture clearly teaches otherwise. It creates a false dichotomy between a Christian's interior life (aka "relationship with Christ") and the Church and Sacraments as if they are contrary to one another and not working together. It also confuses Justification with Sanctification.

Since the article also takes time to point out that "Mary doesn't save," it (wrongly) implies that Catholics believe Mary saves us, which further implies that if you are a Catholic then you don't have a real or true "relationship with Christ."

 

[Galadriel]

Here is a better definition of religion: Religion, broadly speaking, means the voluntary subjection of oneself to God. It exists in its highest perfection in heaven, where the angels and saints love, praise, and adore God, and live in absolute conformity to His holy will. (Catholic Encyclopedia)

 

[makeupgirl]

As I said before, I never intended to judge or offend anyone by the article. I'm just sitting at my desk (I worked through my lunch break for Overtime) trying to get some cases out of the way and sometimes I'll surf the web to take a mini- break and came upon this article and it was on my heart to share. Not to start stuff (I'm already dealing with ending of a friendship) so extra drama was not the intent. I personally don't know the Catholic faith because I didn't grow up learning it and ironically it wasn't touched that much in my Religion/Philosophy class. (interesting) So I'm not downing Catholics or any other faiths. I don't know anyone on here personally but I do know that I love everyone and just love sharing the gospel and talking about the anything relating to Jesus is soothing and uplifting. I cannot attend bible study because I work on the days my church has it. So yes, I take advantage of coming here, rapture ready, or just general surfing to research, and study, and learning, as well as fellowship with others. So if I did offend anyone, I do apologize. Just be careful (and I'm sorry that my words are so close together, something is wrong with my netbook keyboard) because Satan is working harder because he knows his number is almost up. I'll continue to keep everyone in my thoughts and prayers. Love you all.

 

[auparavant]

“Come on up to the altar and accept Christ!” One does not accept Christ; He chooses who He wants!



Just passing through for a tiny bit but didn't Christ die for the whole, entire world? He doesn't pick and choose who will get salvation as He gave it for all mankind, even those who had passed away and were held in she'ol. John 3:16 is essential and it can be read literally.

 

[Galadriel]

^ We are waiting to be given to Christ, and it is supported by Scripture in Revelation 19:6-8:

"And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, “Alleluia! For the[d] Lord God Omnipotent reigns! Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready. And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints."

Eph 5:25-27 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

The Bride in Revelation is the glorified Church.

 

[fifi134]

“Come on up to the altar and accept Christ!” One does not accept Christ; He chooses who He wants!



Just passing through for a tiny bit but didn't Christ die for the whole, entire world? He doesn't pick and choose who will get salvation as He gave it for all mankind, even those who had passed away and were held in she'ol. John 3:16 is essential and it can be read literally.

Christ's death on the Cross is fully sufficient to save all men, but not everyone will be saved. And He did pick and choose who will get salvation.

Ephesians 1:3,4 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world,"

John 3:16 furthermore says that "...whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

Salvation is offered to all, but not everyone will be saved. Those He has chosen will be saved. We cannot come to Christ on our own, He chooses us.

John 15:16: "You did not choose Me but I chose you.."

Also, Scripture doesn't teach that one has the option to be saved after death.

 

[auparavant]

If christianity is not a religion.....

Definition of RELIGION

1
a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion>
b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2
:a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3
archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4
: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

Jesus had a virgin birth, He is the Messiah, He is the ultimate salvific sacrificial lamb, baptism as being born of the spirit, receiving the Holy Spirit, doing good works (following Him and his word), repenting of sin, we believe in the resurrection of the dead and heaven....etc.

So, no matter how you look at it, it is a religion. Every religion's adherents "believe" and have some kind of relationship to the respective set of beliefs and tenets of the faith. How do we have a relationship with Christ? By doing what He said to do...and that is the religion of christianity, pointed to up-post.

 

[fifi134]

Eph 5:25-27 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

The Bride in Revelation is the glorified Church.

Galadriel Yes, the bride is the Church. I never said it wasn't. I was responding to the notion that we are not waiting to be given to Christ.

The marriage in Revelation speaks on the day when we will be united as one with Christ once and for all, just as a bride is united as one with her groom. We are not there yet, as this will not be completed until He returns.

 

[auparavant]

Christ's death on the Cross is fully sufficient to save all men, but not everyone will be saved. And He did pick and choose who will get salvation.

Ephesians 1:3,4 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world,"

John 3:16 furthermore says that "...whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

Salvation is offered to all, but not everyone will be saved. Those He has chosen will be saved. We cannot come to Christ on our own, He chooses us.

John 15:16: "You did not choose Me but I chose you.."

Also, Scripture doesn't teach that one has the option to be saved after death.

The statement in parentheses wasn't mine so I'm responding to that one in particular. He offers salvation to all. He was speaking to his disciples and was talking about a work He gave them to do. So, G-d does choose us for vocation however, we all have free will AND are all presented with the gift of salvation. We can choose it or reject it. And as it applies to all mankind, G-d knows who heart is searching for HIm and living according to the truth that one has received in this life concerning the nature and obedience to G-d...of all religions and cultures, whether they are christian or not. His mercy is beyond us. If His mercy is great, why would He pick and choose who to give salvation to? Works for us to do? I could see that. But 3:16 John, tells us that it is the whole world. In fact, He's the Messiah of the whole world. He is the fulfillment. How horrible to only choose one and leave the other. That curtain of separation has been ripped from East to West and all can fully enter into His salvation, even for those who never knew Him on this earth. Again, truth is written on every man's heart and G-d's mercy is wide. He knows who lived for Him even when they didn't have the completion of the truth about Him concerning His Son, Jesus. Salvation is for all. If not, we should all tremble in fear because, even though we may love Him and live for Him, we cannot know He will offer it to us...if that is the case.

When Jesus died, he went into gehenna to redeem. He freed those who lived and died for G-d before He offered Himself. That would be paradise.

 

[fifi134]

The statement in parentheses wasn't mine so I'm responding to that one in particular. He offers salvation to all. He was speaking to his disciples and was talking about a work He gave them to do. So, G-d does choose us for vocation however, we all have free will AND are all presented with the gift of salvation. We can choose it or reject it. And as it applies to all mankind, G-d knows who heart is searching for HIm and living according to the truth that one has received in this life concerning the nature and obedience to G-d...of all religions and cultures, whether they are christian or not. His mercy is beyond us. If His mercy is great, why would He pick and choose who to give salvation to? Works for us to do? I could see that. But 3:16 John, tells us that it is the whole world. In fact, He's the Messiah of the whole world. He is the fulfillment. How horrible to only choose one and leave the other. That curtain of separation has been ripped from East to West and all can fully enter into His salvation, even for those who never knew Him on this earth. Again, truth is written on every man's heart and G-d's mercy is wide. He knows who lived for Him even when they didn't have the completion of the truth about Him concerning His Son, Jesus. Salvation is for all. If not, we should all tremble in fear because, even though we may love Him and live for Him, we cannot know He will offer it to us...if that is the case.

We cannot choose Christ. Our natural inclination is to deny a holy God. How can we choose a holy God when we are inherently evil ourselves?

John 6:44: No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him;

It is not horrible for God to choose some and not others. All human beings deserve hell. It's actually merciful of Him to choose some to avoid His just punishment.