Thoughts on abortion from a christian perspective!!

[Amour]

My initial thoughts are telling me that abortions will be outlawed my most christians!?! But was wondering whether there were any consensus' or even perhaps not to any exceptions - and how far do these exceptions extend to? for instance age, status, rape etc.

I look forward to hearing the responses/ views

 

[PaperClip]

Somewhere in my thinking I'm thinking I heard/read somewhere that if there was a choice between the mother's and child's life, to save the mother's life.... Maybe I came across something like this when I did some reading of the Torah (God's teaching and instructions for Jews).

 

[dreamer26]

I am against abortion, but I use to think that if I were raped I would get an abortion or if the doctor's told me my child had a medical condition .

Until I met a little girl that sickle cell and she changed my life. I was about 15 years old and this little girl was saved and was sick all the time and she eventually died at 7 years of age but my time with her was well spent. She wouldn't allow you to see a little sick girl, she worshipped and praise God and she spoke with so much wisdom. I mean if you heard her you would think she was a lot older than what she was. She was an awesome little girl. The day before she died, she told her mother you won't have to comb my hair anymore, but don't be sad I'm going on to be with Jesus.

Then I met a man with Cerebal Palsey, and God is using him in a powerful way. He goes across the country preaching and teaching. He doing things that doctors said he would never do. His life is not easy but it's worth it.

So I use to think there was a reason to take a life, but God has shown me if you comment anything to his hands he can take it and use it and bring himself glory and edify the person.

If you've been raped he can use that child to bring restoration to others,
If you've been sexually abuised he can take it and make it a ministry

Because we live in such a messed up world, God has to used messed up situation to bring healing and hope.

So I say live on until God calls you home because he can take a mess and turn it into ministry.

jmo

 

[jrae]

...he can take a mess and turn it into ministry.

I agreed with everything you said especially the above.

I have a problem with "playing God" and determining myself if someone should live or die... especially where innocent life is concerned. Who am I to say that someone isn't perfect enough to live because they have a physical deformity?

Where rape, incest, and health of the mother are concerned, I have heard it said that abortion in those situations are like self-defense. That sounds reasonable to me, but for me personally, I don't "think" I would sacrifice my baby.

 

[Shimmie]

I agreed with everything you said especially the above.

I have a problem with "playing God" and determining myself if someone should live or die... especially where innocent life is concerned. Who am I to say that someone isn't perfect enough to live because they have a physical deformity?

Where rape, incest, and health of the mother are concerned, I have heard it said that abortion in those situations are like self-defense. That sounds reasonable to me, but for me personally, I don't "think" I would sacrifice my baby.

I so agree with you and Dreamer. God defines a person's life, not us.

With rape, I can't make a judgement call on this. As are many Christians, I am not an advocate of abortion. Each time I look at my son and daughter and my grandbabies, I hold on to the precious gift of their lives. None were conceived by the heartbreak of rape.

But even in rape, God can make something beautiful to come of it.

One of the most beautiful women that I admire was conceived by rape. Actress, Ethel Walters.

Her Bio: http://www.mhmin.org/FC/fc-1193EthelW.htm

Her defiance to live by her faith in God is noted here:

Back in New York, Waters was offered the role of housekeeper Bernice Sadie Brown in Carson McCullers' Member of the Wedding, but she turned it down, insisting that her character be rewritten to include "more religion."

The following year, she finally opened on Broadway in Member of the Wedding, her role at last rewritten to her specifications.

By the time Waters appeared in the film version of Member of the Wedding, she'd become a law unto herself: when director Fred Zinnemann attempted to instruct Waters in a minor bit of stage business, she raised her head to the skies and bellowed "God is my director!" Evidently God knew His business, since Member earned Waters her second Oscar nomination.

http://movies.aol.com/celebrity/ethel-waters/74929/biography

Another person, is my father. My grandmother was raped, when she was 12 years old, by her sister's husband. My father was born on her birthday. It was always a special celebration with them. He was raised by her and the loving support of her mother and the entire family, even my great aunt. (My great aunt's husband was not allowed to stay).

My grandmother was blessed (years later) with a wonderful husband who loved my father as his own. From the day he was born, my dad was always loved. God had a wonderful plan........'me'.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

Purely from a Christian standpoint -

I am pro-choice. I also worship God. I believe that the souls of the unborn return to the fathers kingdom.

I am also the ultimate believer in free will. It's easy to be a good Christian if there are punishable man made laws to deter you from sinning. But when you are given easy access to sin and choose not to go that route -THEN you've made a statement about how right you are with God. So my stance is that abortion is between the woman having it and God. I have no business involving myself in that relationship.

 

[dicapr]

This is my first time posting in the christian forum although I read it often. I just wanted to say that science today is reducing the number of women who would have to make this difficult choice. With the approval of emergency contraception (sp?) as a over the counter option, those having accedental pregnancies will be reduced. Most of abortions, hopefully, would be about the health of the mother and or her unboarn fetus. I am pro-life, but believe that the decisicion to abort the pregnancy is between the mother and father and God.

 

[PaperClip]

This is my first time posting in the christian forum although I read it often. I just wanted to say that science today is reducing the number of women who would have to make this difficult choice. With the approval of emergency contraception (sp?) as a over the counter option, those having accedental pregnancies will be reduced. Most of abortions, hopefully, would be about the health of the mother and or her unboarn fetus. I am pro-life, but believe that the decisicion to abort the pregnancy is between the mother and father and God.

I agree, in particular with the bold part.... Except in the case of rape/forced sex, there are are options to prevent the sperm and egg from meeting (e.g. conception). The decision is always going to be between God and the parents. The issue for me is when government wants to direct public (tax) dollars toward programs (Planned Parenthood?) that have loopholes to fund abortions without such matters being taken under consideration.... Some would argue that there are fewer monetary costs to abort vs. supporting a child through foster care, orphanages, welfare, etc.

 

[*Happily Me*]

This is my first time posting in the christian forum although I read it often. I just wanted to say that science today is reducing the number of women who would have to make this difficult choice. With the approval of emergency contraception (sp?) as a over the counter option, those having accedental pregnancies will be reduced. Most of abortions, hopefully, would be about the health of the mother and or her unboarn fetus. I am pro-life, but believe that the decisicion to abort the pregnancy is between the mother and father and God.

i agree with this

 

[tffy2004]

At the age of 16 I had and abortion all because the father said he wasn't ready for children and it was the worst experience in my life. I regret it even to this day. But I thank God for his Mercy and Grace!!

Ectopic Pregnancy
This happens when the fertilzed egg doesn't make it to the uterus and implants itself to the wall of the fillopian tube. As the baby grows it becomes more and more painful for he mother and the tube will eventually burst, a deadly situation for both mother and child. I think this would be the only reason I would venture down that road again.

 

[jrae]

But even in rape, God can make something beautiful to come of it.

[snip]
Another person, is my father. My grandmother was raped, when she was 12 years old, by her sister's husband. My father was born on her birthday. It was always a special celebration with them. He was raised by her and the loving support of her mother and the entire family, even my great aunt. (My great aunt's husband was not allowed to stay).

My grandmother was blessed (years later) with a wonderful husband who loved my father as his own. From the day he was born, my dad was always loved. God had a wonderful plan........'me'.

Wow...how beautiful Shimmie. Thank you for sharing that. We are often short-sighted and make permanent, irreversible decisions for temporary 'problems' based on fear, uncertainty, insecurity, etc.

Had your grandmother not had the courage to live by faith, our "Shimmie" wouldn't be here either.
............

Hugs {{{tffy2004}}}. Thanks for sharing your story. Blessings.

~jrae

 

[Shimmie]

Wow...how beautiful Shimmie. Thank you for sharing that. We are often short-sighted and make permanent, irreversible decisions for temporary 'problems' based on fear, uncertainty, insecurity, etc.

Had your grandmother not had the courage to live by faith, our "Shimmie" wouldn't be here either.
............

Hugs {{{tffy2004}}}. Thanks for sharing your story. Blessings.

~jrae

Thank you Jrae (loving hugs to you). Isn't God something?

I thank God for my Nana. But she had a strong support system with my great grand mother and her sisters; that alone was nothing but the love of God. Especially for my great aunt to love her little sister and help raise the baby that her husband 'seeded'. I can't imagine and don't want to. But they were very close as a family.

Jrae, growing up around them, I NEVER knew. They literally had put this all behind them. My grandfather (My Nana's husband) never treated me (or my sisters) as if we were not blood related. He actually spoiled me rotten; my mom lived with them when I was born. (My dad was in the service). I never knew my dad was his step-son. I found out from a 'relative' later when I was an adult.

The word of God says that, "He makes things beautiful in His time."

Posts like this open up a lot of memories. But we are here to love and heal each other. I can't judge or advise anyone who has had an abortion. It's too painful. No one needs judgement...only to be loved.

 

[kally]

My thing with Abortions is this. I am pro-life. God is the creator of life and gives the blessing to conceive life. God knows what our future actions are going to be. So my question is why does God even allow for these women who he knows will abort the baby to conceive in the first place?

Second why is it that pro-choicers never put up the same fight for a woman who wants to keep her baby and is forced into a abortion as they do for a woman who wants to abort?

Third why is it that society only see the unborn as a baby when the woman wants to keep it and a fetus when she wants to abort.

 

[tffy2004]

At first I didn't want to mention that I had had an abortion cause I don't talk about it at all and I was afraid of what people would think of me. To be honest with you I think about my baby alot and wonder if it would have been a boy or a girl and he or she would be getting ready to start school. Sometimes before I go to sleep my mind wanders and I get emotional thinking about it and have an all around bad night and hard time sleeping.

Shimmie your story is really touching. That itself proves that God has a plan for everyone's life.

"Third why is it that society only see the unborn as a baby when the woman wants to keep it and a fetus when she wants to abort."
Now that I think about it this point is so true, it never crossed my mind before. Hmm, that's something to think about....

"Why does God even allow for these women who he knows will abort the baby to conceive in the first place?"
I have been wondering this exact thing since March 17, 2001

 

[jrae]

[snip]

"Third why is it that society only see the unborn as a baby when the woman wants to keep it and a fetus when she wants to abort."
[snip]
"Why does God even allow for these women who he knows will abort the baby to conceive in the first place?"
I have been wondering this exact thing since March 17, 2001

I have been asking "pro-choicers" the fetus vs. baby question for years and have yet to receive an answer other than "it is a fetus". The truth is it comes down to terminology... we could get hung up on that word all we want but its just a term describing a human being in a certain stage of life - no different than "toddler" or "teenager" - neither is nonetheless a human being. Is it living? Yes. What is its biology? human.

The well-known feminist, author, speaker, Naomi Wolfe, is at least consistent. She says, "let's just admit and be honest that it is a human life we are taking, but we just want the choice to do so." (paraphrased)

"Why would God even allow for these women who he knows will abort the baby to conceive in the first place?" Free will! Also, the "problem" is not really the "conception" but our response and reaction to it.

 

[Belle Du Jour]

I am pro-life. Yes, we all have free choice, but that doesn't make something right, especially for a Christian. God gave us free choice, but he also said "thou shalt not." JMO. I can only be responsible for my own life. I can't and won't judge anyone else.

 

[mkh_77]

Pro-choice.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

My thing with Abortions is this. I am pro-life. God is the creator of life and gives the blessing to conceive life. God knows what our future actions are going to be. So my question is why does God even allow for these women who he knows will abort the baby to conceive in the first place?

That's the question for the ages, but I'm going to go with 'free will'.

Second why is it that pro-choicers never put up the same fight for a woman who wants to keep her baby and is forced into a abortion as they do for a woman who wants to abort?

How is someone forced into an abortion? Is there a news story where this happened?

Third why is it that society only see the unborn as a baby when the woman wants to keep it and a fetus when she wants to abort.

When a woman wants to keep a baby, it is carried to term which means it matures through all the stages between fetus and infant. Since it's not legal to abort an infant, that's why it's not called a baby when the procedure happens.

 

[firecracker]

I am pro choice w/special circumstance. I believe it is a sin but we all make choices daily on which sin we choose to act out or on. erplexed
Either way its between God and the murder or abortioner whatever you choose to call that person.

 

[kally]

Jcoily the answer to your question "How is someone forced into an abortion? Is there a news story where this happened" is this". Many times when a young girl is with child her parent or parents will force her to abort. Where is her support on her decision to keep the child? Also there was a case where a lady was forced to abort by her employer or keep her job. There are also many cases where a child in conceived in an affair and the man pretty much brain washes his mistress into one to avoid conflict. Where are these womens support, when deep down the wanted to keep the baby.

The question on baby versus fetus. Then why is it when a woman first finds out she is preggers everyone says she is going to have a baby and not she is going to have a fetus. Life has to start some where. I believe people say this to feel better about their "choice".

Free will has nothing to do with why conceive in the first Place. By saying "free will" in this term. You are stating that the women purposly set out to get pregnant just to have the abortion because she can.

Free will = free choice not why the baby was conceived in the first place.

 

[Shimmie]

At first I didn't want to mention that I had had an abortion cause I don't talk about it at all and I was afraid of what people would think of me. To be honest with you I think about my baby alot and wonder if it would have been a boy or a girl and he or she would be getting ready to start school. Sometimes before I go to sleep my mind wanders and I get emotional thinking about it and have an all around bad night and hard time sleeping.

Shimmie your story is really touching. That itself proves that God has a plan for everyone's life.

"Third why is it that society only see the unborn as a baby when the woman wants to keep it and a fetus when she wants to abort."
Now that I think about it this point is so true, it never crossed my mind before. Hmm, that's something to think about....

"Why does God even allow for these women who he knows will abort the baby to conceive in the first place?"
I have been wondering this exact thing since March 17, 2001

Tffy, your story is even more touching and takes the courage of a woman who's heart is filled with the love and forgiveness of God to be so open.

Anyone can 'see' from your very first post introducing yourself and your family, how filled you are with the Holy Spirit. As the angel spoke to Mary in Luke 1, "Blessed art thou among [Virgins] for you have been selected by God to bring forth the Messiah."

Tffy, no less are you. For I can hear the love of God firmly speaking of you, "Blessed art thou among Virgins, for you have been selected by God to bring forth the love of Jesus and His Saving and Forgiving power to all who have been held captive through memories of the past."

You have been set free Tffy. Free to have sweet dreams and sweet sleep. You have been long and fully forgiven and you have been chosen from the heart of God, to spread His loving overflow of this liberty to others. Just know, each time you lie down at night, just know that you are highly favored of God and in you, He is well pleased.

Need backup? You know that God always has back up with His word.

"The Sovereign LORD has given me an instructed tongue, to know the word that sustains the weary. He wakens me morning by morning, wakens my ear to listen like one being taught.

The Sovereign LORD has opened my ears, and I have not been rebellious;
I have not drawn back." (Isaiah 50:4,5)

Tffy, you did not drawn back in sharing your experience which is a testimony unto itself. You allowed yourself to be lead and instructed of teh Lord, with words (in season) which will sustain someone who is weary; someone who may feel she is the only Christian in the world with a 'secret' that she cannot share, not knowing who will care.

You did. You cared and showing also that Jesus cares too and she has been forgiven, just like me and you... (Selah...)

With all my heart...

 

[tffy2004]

Shimmie you really are a blessing to me. You always put a smile on my face and joy in my heart when I read your posts. I will definately remember this the next time I have a hard time sleeping or am having a bad day. Thank you so much and my God Bless you in way you can't even imagine.

To everyone here: Is it possible for a Christian to be completely Pro-Choice? if that makes since

 

[Shimmie]

Shimmie you really are a blessing to me. You always put a smile on my face and joy in my heart when I read your posts. I will definately remember this the next time I have a hard time sleeping or am having a bad day. Thank you so much and my God Bless you in way you can't even imagine.

To everyone here: Is it possible for a Christian to be completely Pro-Choice? if that makes since

Tffy: I only spoke the truth about you. Only the truth. For your sleep God says, "...He gives sleep to those He loves." {Psalm 127:2(a)}

Tffy, you are loved. 'For God so loved...that He gave His Son Jesus for you." You are loved. God wants to drive this home to your heart. You are loved, trusted and forgiven and chosen to shine give Him glory.

As for the question, "Pro-Choice" in Christianity. I believe that for some Christians, it's means, based on an extrodinary circumstance (rape, incest, medical). For others, it's a renewal of our minds in Christ Jesus. For each of us have more and more to learn of Him each moment that we live. This is my perception. For I too have much, much more to learn.

 

[sunnyjohn]

Jcoily the answer to your question "How is someone forced into an abortion? Is there a news story where this happened" is this". Many times when a young girl is with child her parent or parents will force her to abort. Where is her support on her decision to keep the child?

Having worked In the ER, OR and social services, once a girl becomes pregnant she is somewhat of an 'emancipated minor'. Her doctors must get her to sign the papers if she wishes and abortion. Even if the state requires parental consent the young woman must still sign.

Also there was a case where a lady was forced to abort by her employer or keep her job.

I love my job, but there is no way I'd have an abortion to keep it. Why didn't she walk straight out of her bosses office and head to the lawyer and then to the TV station? She would have been on CNN and Fox News by lunch time

There are also many cases where a child in conceived in an affair and the man pretty much brain washes his mistress into one to avoid conflict. Where are these womens support, when deep down the wanted to keep the baby.

I feel for these woman. Goodness knows alot of women allow themselves to be fooled by men... If they deep down wanted to keep their baby, why didn't they open the phone book and head for the nearest crisis center or church? I live in a smallish town and Christian pregnancy centers have ads all over the buses and in the telephone book. I wouldn't even mention how prevalent they were when I lived in DFW.

Any woman in a position to be brainwhased by another person has problems only ONE of which is a unplanned pregnancy. Jesus came to set us free. That includes setting the mind free of the brainwashing (which I liken to witchcraft, but I won't go there today) of another...


I once volunteered with a group that helped support young women who where contemplating abortions. We would give them the whole story (not just scare them about the abortion or tell them they were going to hell or convince them motherhood was a bed of roses). If they decided to keep the baby we would find them a home for as long as they needed. We also helped them get educational training. Essentially, by the time they left our group they had at least an associate's degree (or diploma) their own car/transportation, money in the bank and a job.

If the young lady decided to have an abortion, we would STILL support them emotionally. We would even look in on them afterward or take them to follow-up doctor appointments if they needed it. We never looked down on them or judged them. Many, many of them would come back to talk or to get job/educational referrals.


It was their choice.....

 

[jrae]

[snip]
I once volunteered with a group that helped support young women who where contemplating abortions. We would give them the whole story (not just scare them about the abortion or tell them they were going to hell or convince them motherhood was a bed of roses). If they decided to keep the baby we would find them a home for as long as they needed. We also helped them get educational training. Essentially, by the time they left our group they had at least an associate's degree (or diploma) their own car/transportation, money in the bank and a job.

If the young lady decided to have an abortion, we would STILL support them emotionally. We would even look in on them afterward or take them to follow-up doctor appointments if they needed it. We never looked down on them or judged them. Many, many of them would come back to talk or to get job/educational referrals.

Excellent, SunnyJohn! These groups function without ANY recognition and they are truly giving women CHOICES and support.

I gave financially to a group like this many years ago but after I moved I lost their information. Do you mind posting it?

 

[Crackers Phinn]

Jcoily the answer to your question "How is someone forced into an abortion? Is there a news story where this happened" is this". Many times when a young girl is with child her parent or parents will force her to abort. Where is her support on her decision to keep the child?

A young girl absolutely has the choice to live in poverty with a child that she can't afford to take care of. It is not the parents responsibility to take care of a grandchild. If a young lady is grown enough to have consensual sex and grown enough to make the decision to be a mother then she does not need a champion - she needs a job.

Also there was a case where a lady was forced to abort by her employer or keep her job.

I can't speak about international matters because some foreign govts can force people to do anything. However, if this had happened in the U.S., the company would be fined up the wazoo and this woman would be the patron saint of the pro-life movement. So it's hard to imagine this as much more than an urban legend.

There are also many cases where a child in conceived in an affair and the man pretty much brain washes his mistress into one to avoid conflict. Where are these womens support, when deep down the wanted to keep the baby.

No, deep down they really wanted to keep 'the man' in question. Brain washing is what people claim when they need an excuse for unthinkable behavior. Again, nobody is forcing these women to have abortions, they are doing it for their own self interest.

The question on baby versus fetus. Then why is it when a woman first finds out she is preggers everyone says she is going to have a baby and not she is going to have a fetus. Life has to start some where. I believe people say this to feel better about their "choice".

When people happily announce a pregnancy, the consensus is that it will be carried to term - hence a baby being born.

Free will has nothing to do with why conceive in the first Place. By saying "free will" in this term. You are stating that the women purposly set out to get pregnant just to have the abortion because she can. Free will = free choice not why the baby was conceived in the first place.

No, that is not at all what I am saying. Pregnancy doesn't just happen. Sex has to happen first. With the exception of rape/incest, a woman makes a conscious choice to lay down with a man unprotected. If that's not free will, I don't know what is.

 

[kally]

I know that there are caring centers to go that the women can get help. My point is are any of these centers the pro-choice centers?

Jcoily, So you mean to tell me that just because a "fetus" is conceived to someone poor that the unborn does not deserve to live? There are rich young girls who are forced to abort as well. This is a life we are dealing with not a toy. If this is the case then only the rich or well to do should be allowed to have kids.
Many parents treat their grandchild if conceived by their young child as if she did this on purpose and like a toy. Saying things like "she don't need it" . Wow what a way for your own grand parents to feel about you. I guess some people do not value the live of others. Sad world we live in.

As far as the lady who choose to abort and keep her job. She is a pro-lifer. Which how I found out about it. Many women choose their career over the unborn. This one was not strong enough to fight her employer.

For all of the pro-choicer who did not know. The lady who started this whole thing with the Roe v Wade case now regrets the fact that 3000 babies are killed daily legally. She hates the fact that her case got this whole "it is not a life" campaign going. She also is pro-life now. She also KEPT her baby.

 

[kally]

Jcoily there are woman who let you know that they are aborting before it happens. It happens here all the time. First you get all happy for the lady and next thing you know all along she was planinng on ending the "fetus" life.

There is this lady on my mom's job that had 13 abortions. She uses abortions as her contreception. She did let one live. But hey it was her "choice" right?

My best friends cousins has had four of them and she would do it stickly to get even with her husband. She would get pregnant then abort to hurt him. I guess proving her power as a woman. What she does not care that she has hurt a child.

Life is a life no matter what stage of growing you are in, but I guess other do not see it that way.

 

[sunnyjohn]

I know that there are caring centers to go that the women can get help. My point is are any of these centers the pro-choice centers?....

The organization I mentioned in my previous post was a pro-choice organization and a pro-choice center. If a woman wanted to keep her baby we helped her. We gave her more than the "Jesus love you and you are doing the right thing" talk. We helped the mama get on her feet.

Jesus loves us, but even he took action and prayed up bread and fishes when folks was in dire need of dinner.

If a woman decided to abort, we still supported her with follow-up medical care and any educational and job training she needed.

Our goal was to change the behaviour/situation that lead to the pregnancy in the first place.

 

[kally]

That is good to hear Sunny John. I did not know. I only would hear about pro-choicer being there in case of a an abortion.

Question which decision was made more. Live or death? Just curious to know if the abortions out weigh the choice of life.