(!!!) Something That'll Make You Think...Too Deep To Not Check It Out (!!!)

[honeylove316]

But don't you have to be guided by the Spirit to activate Spirit? This is really shedding the light on the fact that I need to do another study on the Spirit b/c I am thoroughly confused.

Not to mention, Jesus said He was sending the Holy Spirit as a comforter for us after He left. So was He sending the same Spirit that was already here?

Okay, let me see if I can elucidate it for you. To address the first part of your question, God is spirit and the Holy Spirit indwells (lives inside) of His children. The spirit of God, which is God is omnipresent, meaning that it is everywhere at the same time. That never changes, saint or sinner. When you come to Christ, you recieve not only salvation, but sanctification(cleansing of sin),propitiation(regain God's favor) but you recieve the dispensation of the Holy Spirit. He is also called the Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener and Stand-by. That gift only comes through salvation.

When you have the Holy Spirit on the inside of you, it informs your choices, convicts you when you are doing wrong and it comforts you in need. More on that last part later. Think of God as three parts : Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They are all one and the same, but each has a different relationship with us, but all are based on love and care for us.That's the best part.

In John 14:16 ,Jesus says he will pray the Father to send another comforter,that he will abide along side forever.

The Holy Spirit comes from the greek word paracletos, which means comforter. It is actually a compound word-"para" meaning along side and "cleteos" which means to call. So the Holy Spirit is "called along side" us to comfort us. Forever. Ain't God good?

Now here's where it gets really interesting (to me at least, lol). The word another has two different meanings from the Greek, the first- heteros, which means of a different kind, and allos- which means of a same kind.
So when Jesus spoke of sending a comforter, He uses the word allos-the Holy Spirit which is a comforter, yes, of a same kind. Unlike Christ, who was physically there with His disciples,to whom this was directed. He told them this because they were distraught over Him telling them He had to go to prepare a place for them.(John 14:2) He had to go, but He was sending another(of the same kind) in His place.

The Holy Spirit is now called to dwell and abide alongside the all the children of God. Now, much like anything, we have our own will and flesh, so even if the Holy Spirit is with us forever, we may not listen. But like Christ, He will never leave or forsake us. I hope this helped a little.

 

[DelightfulFlame]

So then the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of God are not one and the same as Christianity teaches (Trinity)?

 

[miracle]

I honestly don't know what I'd do in that situation, but I wouldn't call anyone who decided to flee a hypocrite. I'm thinking that once one sees two armed gunman dressed in black run into the church, before they even say anything, the "fight or flight" response is activated. In that moment, a person is acting on pure adrenaline. Some people will probably run because it's what their release of adrenaline is telling them to do. Some may want to move, but are too scared to, etc. Any variety of actions could be taken. But regardless of what my "fight or flight" response would be, I definitely wouldn't be in the position to call any of the other members responses hyprocritical.

 

[AngelicRose07]

great thread!

 

[Honeyhips]

thank you. I was actually thinking if someone came in my church with guns, just like that situation that jsut happened, I don't know what would I do. I think I'd run. BUT that doesn't mean I wont die for him.

I know most of you might not agree with me, but I would run. Why would I stay? To risk being killed for what? That is crazy to say that you are a hypocrite because you do not stay.
Jesus and the apostles often had to run for their lives. They didn't sit around and say, "I'm taking a bullet for God", when they knew they had greater missions for God to do. When it was truly time according to God's will, Jesus gave up His life for our lives. Not just to prove a point that doesn't need proving anyway.

 

[Honeyhips]

Both. God is everywhere.

What is taken out of context? Is the Spirit of God within or does it live in a church building?

 

[Poohbear]

I understand the ladies here who said they would run... that would be the normal human reaction to a dangerous situation. No matter what a gunman said, in reality I'm sure it would be very hard for anyone to stay there in that situation for fear of their life. But there's also the view that God will take care of me no matter what happens but God also doesn't want you to be ignorant. I just posted this as something for thought. But it's interesting to read everyone's view and comments on the initial post I made.

 

[Poohbear]

So then the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of God are not one and the same as Christianity teaches (Trinity)?

Who said they were not one and the same? They ARE one and the same.

 

[DelightfulFlame]

Okay, let me see if I can elucidate it for you. To address the first part of your question, God is spirit and the Holy Spirit indwells (lives inside) of His children. The spirit of God, which is God is omnipresent, meaning that it is everywhere at the same time. That never changes, saint or sinner. When you come to Christ, you recieve not only salvation, but sanctification(cleansing of sin),propitiation(regain God's favor) but you recieve the dispensation of the Holy Spirit. He is also called the Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener and Stand-by. That gift only comes through salvation.

When you have the Holy Spirit on the inside of you, it informs your choices, convicts you when you are doing wrong and it comforts you in need. More on that last part later. Think of God as three parts : Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They are all one and the same, but each has a different relationship with us, but all are based on love and care for us.That's the best part.

In John 14:16 ,Jesus says he will pray the Father to send another comforter,that he will abide along side forever.

The Holy Spirit comes from the greek word paracletos, which means comforter. It is actually a compound word-"para" meaning along side and "cleteos" which means to call. So the Holy Spirit is "called along side" us to comfort us. Forever. Ain't God good?

Now here's where it gets really interesting (to me at least, lol). The word another has two different meanings from the Greek, the first- heteros, which means of a different kind, and allos- which means of a same kind.
So when Jesus spoke of sending a comforter, He uses the word allos-the Holy Spirit which is a comforter, yes, of a same kind. Unlike Christ, who was physically there with His disciples,to whom this was directed. He told them this because they were distraught over Him telling them He had to go to prepare a place for them.(John 14:2) He had to go, but He was sending another(of the same kind) in His place.

The Holy Spirit is now called to dwell and abide alongside the all the children of God. Now, much like anything, we have our own will and flesh, so even if the Holy Spirit is with us forever, we may not listen. But like Christ, He will never leave or forsake us. I hope this helped a little.

This post...confusing. God's spirit is everywhere, yet the Holy Spirit was not everywhere. It was sent after Jesus was crucified. So apparently they are two different Spirits, but in church I was always taught that they were one and the same (Trinity).

 

[Poohbear]

This post...confusing. God's spirit is everywhere, yet the Holy Spirit was not everywhere. It was sent after Jesus was crucified. So apparently they are two different Spirits, but in church I was always taught that they were one and the same (Trinity).

Oh okay. Well the Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit. I think when she mentioned "spirit of God", she was making the point that God is a spirit and that He is everywhere. It can be confusing.

 

[DelightfulFlame]

that's the part that confuses me...if the Spirit is everywhere...and always was...and always will be...then why did Jesus say that the Holy Spirit was coming after His crucifixion?

 

[Honeyhips]

I thought the Holy Spirit came after Christ b/c that is when we needed it. It wasn't everywhere before b/c Christ was here on the Earth. But God was and is everywhere. I thought that Christ and the Holy Spirit were different parts of him.

that's the part that confuses me...if the Spirit is everywhere...and always was...and always will be...then why did Jesus say that the Holy Spirit was coming after His crucifixion?

 

[DelightfulFlame]

What is the difference b/w the Spirit of God and the Holy Spirit?

If they are different, then how can they be the same? (Trinity)

So how was Jesus dead for 3 days...if He is God?

 

[Poohbear]

What is the difference b/w the Spirit of God and the Holy Spirit?

If they are different, then how can they be the same? (Trinity)

So how was Jesus dead for 3 days...if He is God?

God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all the same. They all work in different ways as far as our relationship with each part of God.

 

[Honeyhips]

So pooh they are like 3 parts of the same person? Actually no. I found an answer to my own question.



http://everystudent.com/trinity.html

 

[DelightfulFlame]

So God died when Jesus did for 3 days?

I know that Jesus said that He and God are one...but one what?

And if Jesus is God, then why is He called the Son of God...clearly separating Him from God?

And if Jesus is the same, equal to, God, then why did He have to go to the Father?

I got questions I tell ya! LOL...

 

[stcsweet]

Great questions! This is a difficult concept to grasp.
The Bible is the self revelation of an infinite God. Therefore, we are bound to encounter concepts which are difficult to understand -- especially when dealing with God who is beyond our understanding and who exists in all places at all times.

So God died when Jesus did for 3 days?

No

I know that Jesus said that He and God are one...but one what?

And if Jesus is God, then why is He called the Son of God...clearly separating Him from God?

And if Jesus is the same, equal to, God, then why did He have to go to the Father?

God exists as a unity of three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Each of the persons is distinct from the other, yet related in essence.

Each is divine in nature, but each is not the totality of the Godhead. Each has a will, loves, and says "I", and "You" when speaking.

The Father is not the same person as the Son who is not the same person as the Holy Spirit who is not the same person as the Father. Each is divine, yet there are not three gods, but one God.

There is, apparently, a subordination within the Trinity in regard to order but not substance or essence. The Father is first, the Son is second, and the Holy Spirit is third. The Father is not begotten, but the Son is (John 3:16). The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father (John 5:26). The Father sent the Son (1 John 4:10). The Son and the Father send the Holy Spirit (John 14:26; 15:26). The Father creates (Isaiah 44:24), the Son redeems (Gal. 3:13), and the Holy Spirit sanctifies (Rom. 15:16).


Here are more good scripture references:

Matt. 28:18, Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

1 Cor. 12:4-6, Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6And there are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.

2 Cor. 13:14, The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.

Eph. 4:4-7, There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. 7But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.

1 Pet. 1:2, "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in fullest measure."

Jude 20-21, "But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith; praying in the Holy Spirit; 21keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life."

Sorry this was so long...

 

[Poohbear]

So pooh they are like 3 parts of the same person? Actually no. I found an answer to my own question.



http://everystudent.com/trinity.html

No I wasnt saying that. Its very hard to explain. All I know is that God is three-in-one...The Father, The Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit. Three-in-one means Trinity. They are all the same.

DelightfulFlame, check out the link that Honeyhips posted.

 

[DelightfulFlame]

Thanks for the scripture & links! I'll check them out tomorrow, but I won't promise not to have questions...LOL. Thanks again for being good sports and posting info.

 

[sugarsweet]

So God died when Jesus did for 3 days?

I know that Jesus said that He and God are one...but one what?

And if Jesus is God, then why is He called the Son of God...clearly separating Him from God?

And if Jesus is the same, equal to, God, then why did He have to go to the Father?

I got questions I tell ya! LOL...

I think it was like a part of him diying GOD could never be totally dead.
Jesus had to ask god for permision out of respect we give ourselves permission everyday to do things like take time out for ourselves, going to work, feeling worthy, good and bad etc.it might be a concious effort and it minght not but it doesn't mean that it's not there.

 

[DelightfulFlame]

Here's the thing...if Jesus is God, and God could never die, then how come Jesus died?

For 3 days, Jesus was DEAD.

 

[stcsweet]

Here's the thing...if Jesus is God, and God could never die, then how come Jesus died?

For 3 days, Jesus was DEAD.

Remember that:

The Father is not begotten, but the Son is (John 3:16). The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father (John 5:26). The Father sent the Son (1 John 4:10). The Father creates (Isaiah 44:24), the Son redeems (Gal. 3:13), and the Holy Spirit sanctifies (Rom. 15:16).

The most beautiful thing is that Jesus Christ shed His blood on the cross to pay the penalty for our sins!

"Who his own self bare OUR SINS in his own body on the tree,. . ." 1 Peter 2:24
" . . . Unto him that loved us, and washed us from OUR SINS in his own BLOOD," Revelation 1:5b

There's a great hymn that includes the words:
"What can wash away my sin? NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD OF JESUS!"

 

[DelightfulFlame]

So doesn't that make them different? If they all do different things, then how are they the same?

 

[stcsweet]

So doesn't that make them different? If they all do different things, then how are they the same?

I'm going to use an analogy that's a little controversial, but hopefully it will help you.

We all know that water can take many different forms, right?

There is a liquid form, there is a solid form (ice), and there is a gaseous form (steam). Each of these forms is water, yet they have a different appearance and can always be traced back to the foundation, water.

We all know that God is much more than water. But, this illustrates that God is the basis for everything (even that which we cannot explain). God is in three forms (persons) - Father/Creator, Son, and Holy Spirit.

They are one, however each interacts with us differently.

You may want to pray for God to settle your heart about this. There is much that we cannot fully understand.

Revelation 22:13 - "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

 

[DelightfulFlame]

Thanks hon. I do pray, and He is showing me...which is why I have so many questions. I never know who He will use to show me the way. I cannot accept not knowing and leaving it at that though. There will always be things that I don't know. And things that I don't know that I don't know. But when I know that I don't know them, it is in my heart to find them out. Probably because God is getting me ready to show me the answer. So I just can't accept not knowing. The bible encourages seeking, so that's what I will do...probably until the day I die.

Here's something interesting that I found at biblegateway.com. Notice the difference b/w the kjv and the niv versions. The niv has an interesting side note...something to study for sure.

1 John 5 (KJV)
6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

---------------------------------------------------------------

1 John 5 (NIV)
6This is the one who came by water and blood–Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7For there are three that testify: 8the[a] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

1 John 5:8 Late manuscripts of the Vulgate testify in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one. 8 And there are three that testify on earth: the (not found in any Greek manuscript before the sixteenth century)

 

[Poohbear]

When Jesus was on earth, he was God in human form.

God is...
1. The Father
2. The Son (Jesus)
3. The Holy Spirit.

Also read John 1:1-14 where it talks about the Word being made flesh (God becoming man, that man being Jesus).

 

[Poohbear]

You know what DL? You should start your own trinity thread!

 

[stcsweet]

Thanks hon. I do pray, and He is showing me...which is why I have so many questions. I never know who He will use to show me the way. I cannot accept not knowing and leaving it at that though. There will always be things that I don't know. And things that I don't know that I don't know. But when I know that I don't know them, it is in my heart to find them out. Probably because God is getting me ready to show me the answer. So I just can't accept not knowing. The bible encourages seeking, so that's what I will do...probably until the day I die. [/b]

There are many resources and opinions available on this this topic.

Here are some references to help you:Carm.org
Online Trinity

I hope this helps. Please update us on additional information you find.

 

[DelightfulFlame]

You know what DL? You should start your own trinity thread!

LOL...am I being put out? For real, that's a good idea.

 

[Lex_Artis]

So doesn't that make them different? If they all do different things, then how are they the same?

Thanks for asking this question. Its always been a point of confusion for me too.