Reformed Theology

[Daughter]

Just wondered if anyone else here believes in the doctrines of grace (popularly known as Calvinism), the five solas, etc?

 

[Shimmie]

Just wondered if anyone else here believes in the doctrines of grace (popularly known as Calvinism), the five solas, etc?

Hi Daughter.

I really like your name It's how God sees us, as His beloved Daughters.

As for Calvinism, they are pretty straight-laced where they believe that one's salvation has been predestined; that God has preselected those who will be saved.

This is where I have discourse.

I believe that God already KNOWS who will accept Him and those who will not and that it still comes down to one's 'free will'.

However, I believe that many are / have been pre-selected by God for different reasons. For instance, Noah, Abraham, Joseph, Moses, King David, Solomon, John the Baptist, the Virgin Mary.... the Apostle Paul.

Yet we notice that Jesus still went about preaching the Gospel to everyone. And John 3:16 which clearly says, 'For God so loved the 'World' that He gave His only begotten Son..... for 'All'.

There are other theories with Calvinism that I don't agree with but others that I do.

I simply see Calvinism as a theory that one had (John Calvin) and others agreed to follow. I won't discount it's value for they do not play with sin, yet I won't credit it as the full Gospel.

Hope I'm making some sense here.

 

[Galadriel]

I've read John Calvin's works, as well as Jonathan Edwards (a very fascinating American Puritan with Calvinist roots).

I agree with @Shimmie that the Calvinist definition of predestination confines salvation to God choosing who will be saved and who will be damned without counting free will. Jonathan Edwards (though I think he's probably the most pleasant and intelligent historical Protestant I've read) even said that a person can convert to Christianity, believe and follow the Bible, etc. but if he wasn't predestined to salvation, he would go to hell.

I would reject predestination, as well as Calvin's concept of total depravity. Total depravity teaches us that we are so sinful and depraved that we lack the free will to choose God--which is why God must predestine us to salvation.

ETA: I also reject the Solas

 

[Shimmie]

I've read John Calvin's works, as well as Jonathan Edwards (a very fascinating American Puritan with Calvinist roots).

I agree with @Shimmie that the Calvinist definition of predestination confines salvation to God choosing who will be saved and who will be damned without counting free will. Jonathan Edwards (though I think he's probably the most pleasant and intelligent historical Protestant I've read) even said that a person can convert to Christianity, believe and follow the Bible, etc. but if he wasn't predestined to salvation, he would go to hell.

I would reject predestination, as well as Calvin's concept of total depravity. Total depravity teaches us that we are so sinful and depraved that we lack the free will to choose God--which is why God must predestine us to salvation.

ETA: I also reject the Solas

Exactly Galadriel... their predestination theory doesn't line up with the purpose that God sent Jesus, for what was the purpose of the Cross if salvation was predestined for 'some' and not for all?

This would mean that Jesus went through all of that pain and suffering for nothing...it was totally in vain. There was no point of the Cross and God's Blood Covenant for our sins.

 

[JaneBond007]

Faith was demanded long before Jesus. I learned of Calvinism in a secular institution...and it ticked me off, actually lol. I find no reason for it, honestly. What is all this anyway, without faith? What's if all for? Some cosmic game? Shrugs. Could be if not for....faith, grace and redemption. We can all breathe a sigh of relief that predestination ain't the truth.

 

[Laela]

Yeah well, some may not agree but, I tend to believe it's a bigger picture than we can even conceive in our minds... as God's knowledge is inifitely greater than we can imagine ours to be. If God is all knowing, surely He would know (with free will) who will/ will not come to Him when He calls.. He gives everyone the chance to decide for themselves via hearing the Gospel. It's all part of His Plan, IMHO. Did He know mankind would sin in the Garden, I tend to believe this.. because Lucifer had already fallen and I'm sure Father God knew of his presence in the Garden. We were created in the middle of a war.


Consider this:

Ephesians 1
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship[c] through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he[d] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.

11 In him we were also chosen,[e] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Exactly Galadriel... their predestination theory doesn't line up with the purpose that God sent Jesus, for what was the purpose of the Cross if salvation was predestined for 'some' and not for all?

This would mean that Jesus went through all of that pain and suffering for nothing...it was totally in vain. There was no point of the Cross and God's Blood Covenant for our sins.

 

[Shimmie]

Yeah well, some may not agree but, I tend to believe it's a bigger picture than we can even conceive in our minds... as God's knowledge is inifitely greater than we can imagine ours to be. If God is all knowing, surely He would know (with free will) who will/ will not come to Him when He calls.. He gives everyone the chance to decide for themselves via hearing the Gospel. It's all part of His Plan, IMHO.

Did He know mankind would sin in the Garden, I tend to believe this.. because Lucifer had already fallen and I'm sure Father God knew of his presence in the Garden. We were created in the middle of a war .

Laela .... your entire post

At the bolded, is a powerful truth; we were indeed created in the middle of a war, the 'war for our souls'.

Hence, Jesus.

I also truly believe it's a bigger picture than we can even conceive in our minds... as God's knowledge is infinitely greater than we can ever imagine ours to be. As His Word says, "Far above and beyond..."

Amein :Rose:

 

[JaneBond007]

If G-d chose every human being and knew who would accept and who would not accept - that's not Calvinistic predestination. His precludes faith in its entirety. In fact, you wouldn't even need faith according to Calvin's reasoning. As far as being chosen, know how the Jewish people became chosen? They said, "Yes, we will take your torah and live by it." G-d had gone to many other peoples before. Did He know who would accept? Yes. What do the early Church Fathers or Doctors of the Church say about grace, predestined faith and such?

 

[Galadriel]

JaneBond007 that's a good point to bring up. God's foreknowledge or prescience does not mean a fatalistic predestination. God is outside of time, and all events (past, present, future) are known and seen by Him.

 

[Belle Du Jour]

Off topic,

JaneBond007 is that a Coptic depiction of Yeshua? I love it

 

[JaneBond007]

^^^@ Belle_du_Jour


No, they are Roman Hebrews BCE era. People say "Greek," but the three cultures existed together. Greek style mosaics but definitely Israel.