QUESTION ABOUT HEAT PROTECTANTS

[Sunshine0801]

A number of ladies on here use heat protectants when using indirect heat (hooded dryers or bonnet dryers) for their rollersets and other styles.

But why would a heat protectant be needed for indirect heat when rollersetting (or drying any other style) but not when doing a deep condition or protein treatment?

I understand that with protein treatments your hair should be completely clean/stripped, but wouldn't heat damage still be possible and just as damaging as it would be when drying a rollerset?

I'm just trying to understand why a heat protectant may be necessary only in some situations when indirect heat is applied.

 

[HAIRapy]

Good question....

 

[Crackers Phinn]

But why would a heat protectant be needed for indirect heat when rollersetting (or drying any other style) but not when doing a deep condition or protein treatment?

I know absolutely nothing about rollersets but I'd think that the conditioner works as the barrier between direct heat and hair when deep conditioning. I'm also not a scientist so i could be wrong.

 

[nappity]

I am an unsuccessful rollersetter- but most heat protectants have a from of cones which coat the hair and help the memory of the set. They are made to work in conjunction with heat- so with heat applied- directly or indirectly-they activate. Therefore, they do a better job of protecting and imparting shine to the rollerset.

 

[Sunshine0801]

I know absolutely nothing about rollersets but I'd think that the conditioner works as the barrier between direct heat and hair when deep conditioning. I'm also not a scientist so i could be wrong.

Interesting idea. I'm still curious why folks don't worry about indirect heat damage when doing protein treatments...

Thanks for your reply, JCoily.

 

[Sunshine0801]

I am an unsuccessful rollersetter- but most heat protectants have a from of cones which coat the hair and help the memory of the set. They are made to work in conjunction with heat- so with heat applied- directly or indirectly-they activate. Therefore, they do a better job of protecting and imparting shine to the rollerset.

I see. So are you concerned about indirect heat damage when doing DC or protein treatments?

I'm trying to figure out why folks try to prevent heat damage when doing rollersets and other styles with heat, but not when doing DC or protein treatments with heat.

 

[PinkSkates]

Originally posted by Sunshine0801
I'm trying to figure out why folks try to prevent heat damage when doing rollersets and other styles with heat, but not when doing DC or protein treatments with heat.

That very same question popped into my head a couple of years ago. And that is why I do not apply heat when I deep condition my hair. The heat from my body and the heat that my shower cap holds in will have to suffice for providing heat to my hair while I deep condition.

 

[Sunshine0801]

That very same question popped into my head a couple of years ago. And that is why I do not apply heat when I deep condition my hair. The heat from my body and the heat that my shower cap holds in will have to suffice for providing heat to my hair while I deep condition.

Do you do protein treatments? If so, do you find them effective without heat?

 

[PinkSkates]

Originally posted by Sunshine0801
Do you do protein treatments? If so, do you find them effective without heat?

I DC with Aveda Damage Remedy Intensive Restructuring Treatment, which is a light protein treatment. As far as I'm concerned, it is most effective; because I apply a lot of direct heat to my hair when I press it, and my hair is the healthiest it has ever been in my life. So my body heat and shower cap are working just fine for my hair. At salons they use extra heat when DCing because it speeds up the process. They don't have time to let each customer sit there for an hour while the protein treatment penetrates the hair shaft. They need to service as many heads as possible so to pay their rent. But when I'm home DCing my hair, I got nothing but time to let mother nature do its thing.

 

[Sunshine0801]

I DC with Aveda Damage Remedy Intensive Restructuring Treatment, which is a light protein treatment. As far as I'm concerned, it is most effective; because I apply a lot of direct heat to my hair when I press it, and my hair is the healthiest it has ever been in my life. So my body heat and shower cap are working just fine for my hair. At salons they use extra heat when DCing because it speeds up the process. They don't have time to let each customer sit there for an hour while the protein treatment penetrates the hair shaft. They need to service as many heads as possible so to pay their rent. But when I'm home DCing my hair, I got nothing but time to let mother nature do its thing.

Hmmm, I think I'll have to look into this product. I want to start doing protein treatments, and thought about Aphogee, but I can't figure out why indirect heat is okay in some situations but not others, and I really don't want to get heat damage.

How long do you leave it on and how often do you use it? Also, do you follow up with any other conditioner or moisturizing products?

 

[gymfreak336]

A number of ladies on here use heat protectants when using indirect heat (hooded dryers or bonnet dryers) for their rollersets and other styles.

But why would a heat protectant be needed for indirect heat when rollersetting (or drying any other style) but not when doing a deep condition or protein treatment?

I understand that with protein treatments your hair should be completely clean/stripped, but wouldn't heat damage still be possible and just as damaging as it would be when drying a rollerset?

I'm just trying to understand why a heat protectant may be necessary only in some situations when indirect heat is applied.

Not exactly....you are applying heat for two very different reasons. When you apply heat when conditioning, you are helping the conditioner penetrade deeper into your hair strands. When you are sitting under a dryer when rollersetting, you are trying to remove excess water from your hair, thus drying it. When deep conditioning, you are not removing anything. Not to mention there is a chemical barrier (your conditioner) and a physical barrier(the plastic cap) when deep conditioning. When drying a rollerset there isn't any to the same magnitude. That is why some people use a heat protectant, to help keep their hair from getting too hot and while drying. Plus the amount of time plays a part too. Drying could take anywhere from 45-2 hours. Deep conditioning doesn't require the same amount of time. Plus the heat generally used when drying your hair is higher than the heat applied with conditioner.

 

[Ivy_Butter]

That was a good answer!

 

[PinkSkates]

Originally posted by Sunshine0801
Hmmm, I think I'll have to look into this product. I want to start doing protein treatments, and thought about Aphogee, but I can't figure out why indirect heat is okay in some situations but not others, and I really don't want to get heat damage.

How long do you leave it on and how often do you use it? Also, do you follow up with any other conditioner or moisturizing products?

I leave it in minimum 1 hour maximum 3 hours. And I DC twice a month. After DC'ing I apply Aveda Damage Control (it's a heat protectant) and then blow dry. My hair reverts back 100% when wet, so I know my hair products are doing their job.

 

[Sunshine0801]

Not exactly....you are applying heat for two very different reasons. When you apply heat when conditioning, you are helping the conditioner penetrade deeper into your hair strands. When you are sitting under a dryer when rollersetting, you are trying to remove excess water from your hair, thus drying it. When deep conditioning, you are not removing anything. Not to mention there is a chemical barrier (your conditioner) and a physical barrier(the plastic cap) when deep conditioning. When drying a rollerset there isn't any to the same magnitude. That is why some people use a heat protectant, to help keep their hair from getting too hot and while drying. Plus the amount of time plays a part too. Drying could take anywhere from 45-2 hours. Deep conditioning doesn't require the same amount of time. Plus the heat generally used when drying your hair is higher than the heat applied with conditioner.

Thanks for your reply!

So if the chemicals from the conditioner and a plastic cap are enough to prevent heat damage, wouldn't the chemicals in leave-in's and other moisturizers that people use when rollersetting be enough to some degree to prevent heat damage as well?

I also wonder if a plastic cap prevents heat damage from a dryer at all. Many people DC by using a plastic cap and not heat, and only rely on their body heat to get the conditioner to penetrate into the hair. So I would think that since a plastic cap helps activate body heat (and heat up the hair), a plastic cap plus heat from a dryer would increase the amount of heat inside the cap and therefore increase the chances of heat damage.

Also, do you think the chemicals in protein treatments protect the hair from heat damage as well?

 

[gymfreak336]

Thanks for your reply!

So if the chemicals from the conditioner and a plastic cap are enough to prevent heat damage, wouldn't the chemicals in leave-in's and other moisturizers that people use when rollersetting be enough to some degree to prevent heat damage as well?

I also wonder if a plastic cap prevents heat damage from a dryer at all. Many people DC by using a plastic cap and not heat, and only rely on their body heat to get the conditioner to penetrate into the hair. So I would think that since a plastic cap helps activate body heat (and heat up the hair), a plastic cap plus heat from a dryer would increase the amount of heat inside the cap and therefore increase the chances of heat damage.

Also, do you think the chemicals in protein treatments protect the hair from heat damage as well?

To the red....not all chemicals are heat protectant agents. Not all leave-ins have enough of them so additional support is needed.

To the rest.....Part of "heat"damage comes from the direct flow of the heat. The plastic cap prevents the contact of the direct flow of heat.

Hair has threshold of the amount of heat it can take. You risk crossing that threshold when drying your hair with heat and in heat styling. The amount of time it would take for you to damage your hair under a dryer compared to the amount of time it would take with other heat tools is very different.
When you apply heat to deep condition, you are helping the conditioner pentrate deeper into the hair. The reason this isn't considered damage is because you have to rinse it out and the physical act of rinsing your hair and setting it, helps resmooth and close your cuticle to keep all the moisture your just added to your hair inside, not to mention the help that comes from leave in conditioners. Part of the damage that comes from heat damage is the mechanical damage that occurs afterwards. Heat damage can crack and chip your cuticle which when combing and day to day manipulation can cause breakage faster and to a more signifant degree. Keep in mind that the risk of heat damage when rollersetting is not as great as the risk of heat damage when styling hair with heat improperly. Usually additional heat protectant isn't needed when rollersetting. If you are using direct heat with a flat iron or whatever then yes you have to have it.


Not all protein treatments are the same so it would be hard to say. Not all protein treatments are designed to benefit the hair the same way either.

 

[Sunshine0801]

To the red....not all chemicals are heat protectant agents. Not all leave-ins have enough of them so additional support is needed.

To the rest.....Part of "heat"damage comes from the direct flow of the heat. The plastic cap prevents the contact of the direct flow of heat.

Hair has threshold of the amount of heat it can take. You risk crossing that threshold when drying your hair with heat and in heat styling. The amount of time it would take for you to damage your hair under a dryer compared to the amount of time it would take with other heat tools is very different.
When you apply heat to deep condition, you are helping the conditioner pentrate deeper into the hair. The reason this isn't considered damage is because you have to rinse it out and the physical act of rinsing your hair and setting it, helps resmooth and close your cuticle to keep all the moisture your just added to your hair inside, not to mention the help that comes from leave in conditioners. Part of the damage that comes from heat damage is the mechanical damage that occurs afterwards. Heat damage can crack and chip your cuticle which when combing and day to day manipulation can cause breakage faster and to a more signifant degree. Keep in mind that the risk of heat damage when rollersetting is not as great as the risk of heat damage when styling hair with heat improperly. Usually additional heat protectant isn't needed when rollersetting. If you are using direct heat with a flat iron or whatever then yes you have to have it.


Not all protein treatments are the same so it would be hard to say. Not all protein treatments are designed to benefit the hair the same way either.

To the bolded: Really? I didn't know that. Can you give some examples? Also, can you give examples of protein treatments that do not protect the hair from indirect heat damage and protein treatments that do protect the hair from indirect heat damage?

To the rest: That makes sense. Thanks!

 

[Artemis]

Yes, heat when deep conditioning helps the product to penetrate the strands, and reinforce the cortex of the hair, creating a barrier from future damage. Protein treatments strengthen the hair by rebuilding any areas of the shaft that were damaged due to environmental, mechanical, or chemical damage.

The very fact that the product is penetrating the hair can (note the italics) protect the hair from further damage at that time. ETA: Even some conditioners that do not deep condition that only nourish the cuticle have some level of protection from most damage. (I include heat there).

Heat damage occurs when the temperature of an appliance exceeds the threshold of the hair's bonds. The temperature and the physical breakdown of enough bonds can present in hair breakage. Any buffer from that (that has a higher heat threshold of the hair) added to the hair will protect the hair from damage.

Also, not all circumstances of heat cause damage. And any hair style or form of drying (yes, including airdrying) can cause damage, if done improperly based on your hair's specific (read: individual) needs.

It helps to think about each hair care product having a specific function. Would you wear a rain coat to the beach, or flip-flops in a blizzard? Same idea.

The decision to dc with or without heat is a personal one. But keep in mind that if you do not use heat with your deep conditioner, you may need to keep the product in longer to let it actually penetrate the hair shaft and rebuild and nourish any trouble spots. But at the same time if you use heat, do not keep it in too long. Either you will over condition the hair (yes, it happens) or you hair will only use what it needs, and you are wasting your time (and product).

In general:
DC with heat (15-20 min.)
DC w/o heat (30-45 min.)

I really doubt that beyond these time frames (there are +/- exceptions) the product will penetrate anymore effectively.

 

[Artemis]

To the bolded: Really? I didn't know that. Can you give some examples? Also, can you give examples of protein treatments that do not protect the hair from indirect heat damage and protein treatments that do protect the hair from indirect heat damage?

To the rest: That makes sense. Thanks!

Not Gymfreak, but I believe she means that not all protein treatments treat the hair the same way. EX: Light proteins strengthen the hair or help humectants bind to the strands vs. actual protein treatments that reconstruct and repair damage. In addition, some proteins can have the same ingredients but different formulations and react to the hair differently.

 

[gymfreak336]

Not Gymfreak, but I believe she means that not all protein treatments treat the hair the same way. EX: Light proteins strengthen the hair or help humectants bind to the strands vs. actual protein treatments that reconstruct and repair damage. In addition, some proteins can have the same ingredients but different formulations and react to the hair differently.

Thanks A! ITA

Remember too that the relative strength of a protein treatment is dependent on the overall forumula and the types of proteins used.

 

[morehairplease]

Yes, heat when deep conditioning helps the product to penetrate the strands, and reinforce the cortex of the hair, creating a barrier from future damage. Protein treatments strengthen the hair by rebuilding any areas of the shaft that were damaged due to environmental, mechanical, or chemical damage.

The very fact that the product is penetrating the hair can (note the italics) protect the hair from further damage at that time. ETA: Even some conditioners that do not deep condition that only nourish the cuticle have some level of protection from most damage. (I include heat there).

Heat damage occurs when the temperature of an appliance exceeds the threshold of the hair's bonds. The temperature and the physical breakdown of enough bonds can present in hair breakage. Any buffer from that (that has a higher heat threshold of the hair) added to the hair will protect the hair from damage.

Also, not all circumstances of heat cause damage. And any hair style or form of drying (yes, including airdrying) can cause damage, if done improperly based on your hair's specific (read: individual) needs.

It helps to think about each hair care product having a specific function. Would you wear a rain coat to the beach, or flip-flops in a blizzard? Same idea.

The decision to dc with or without heat is a personal one. But keep in mind that if you do not use heat with your deep conditioner, you may need to keep the product in longer to let it actually penetrate the hair shaft and rebuild and nourish any trouble spots. But at the same time if you use heat, do not keep it in too long. Either you will over condition the hair (yes, it happens) or you hair will only use what it needs, and you are wasting your time (and product).

In general:
DC with heat (15-20 min.)
DC w/o heat (30-45 min.)

I really doubt that beyond these time frames (there are +/- exceptions) the product will penetrate anymore effectively.

this is the guideline I use when applying my dc, too. I have been known to go 3-4 hours with a dc on my head.

 

[Sunshine0801]

Yes, heat when deep conditioning helps the product to penetrate the strands, and reinforce the cortex of the hair, creating a barrier from future damage. Protein treatments strengthen the hair by rebuilding any areas of the shaft that were damaged due to environmental, mechanical, or chemical damage.

The very fact that the product is penetrating the hair can (note the italics) protect the hair from further damage at that time. ETA: Even some conditioners that do not deep condition that only nourish the cuticle have some level of protection from most damage. (I include heat there).

Heat damage occurs when the temperature of an appliance exceeds the threshold of the hair's bonds. The temperature and the physical breakdown of enough bonds can present in hair breakage. Any buffer from that (that has a higher heat threshold of the hair) added to the hair will protect the hair from damage.

Also, not all circumstances of heat cause damage. And any hair style or form of drying (yes, including airdrying) can cause damage, if done improperly based on your hair's specific (read: individual) needs.

It helps to think about each hair care product having a specific function. Would you wear a rain coat to the beach, or flip-flops in a blizzard? Same idea.

The decision to dc with or without heat is a personal one. But keep in mind that if you do not use heat with your deep conditioner, you may need to keep the product in longer to let it actually penetrate the hair shaft and rebuild and nourish any trouble spots. But at the same time if you use heat, do not keep it in too long. Either you will over condition the hair (yes, it happens) or you hair will only use what it needs, and you are wasting your time (and product).

In general:
DC with heat (15-20 min.)
DC w/o heat (30-45 min.)

I really doubt that beyond these time frames (there are +/- exceptions) the product will penetrate anymore effectively.

Thanks for the information!

To the bolded: I know that DC treatments do not need heat to be effective, but I'm wondering if very strong protein treatments (like Aphogee) need heat to work. Do you think protein treatments can work without heat just as well as they work with heat if they are left on longer?

 

[gymfreak336]

Thanks for the information!

To the bolded: I know that DC treatments do not need heat to be effective, but I'm wondering if very strong protein treatments (like Aphogee) need heat to work. Do you think protein treatments can work without heat just as well as they work with heat if they are left on longer?

Usually yes. That is why Aphogee says to use heat until it becomes hard. Stronger Protein treatments usually use more keratin which is a larger molecule than lets say silk protein. The heat helps drive it into the hair strand.

 

[Sunshine0801]

Usually yes. That is why Aphogee says to use heat until it becomes hard. Stronger Protein treatments usually use more keratin which is a larger molecule than lets say silk protein. The heat helps drive it into the hair strand.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

I know very little about the proper ways of using heat, and it only takes one little mistake to cause irreparable heat damage to your hair. I've stayed away from heat partially because I didn't want to damage my hair, but it looks like if I want to use a strong protein treatment, I may have to use at least a little heat.

Do you know the minimum amount of heat that is required for protein treatments?

 

[gymfreak336]

Yeah, that's what I thought.

I know very little about the proper ways of using heat, and it only takes one little mistake to cause irreparable heat damage to your hair. I've stayed away from heat partially because I didn't want to damage my hair, but it looks like if I want to use a strong protein treatment, I may have to use at least a little heat.

Do you know the minimum amount of heat that is required for protein treatments?

Sunshine, Don't fear heat. Once you know the proper way to use anything, there is no reason to fear it. The fear comes from the possible negative consquences of using it improperly. Improperly can mean temp too high, lack of proper preparation and using it too much. There is a method to everything. There are many many threads here that talk about heat protection and how to select heat protecting products and the temp. range you should be working in. Out of all the ways to use heat, deep conditioning with it is the least of your worries.

The time usually varies with the type of treatment.

 

[Sunshine0801]

Sunshine, Don't fear heat. Once you know the proper way to use anything, there is no reason to fear it. The fear comes from the possible negative consquences of using it improperly. Improperly can mean temp too high, lack of proper preparation and using it too much. There is a method to everything. There are many many threads here that talk about heat protection and how to select heat protecting products and the temp. range you should be working in. Out of all the ways to use heat, deep conditioning with it is the least of your worries.

The time usually varies with the type of treatment.

Thanks for the advice, gymfreak.