Proteins vs. Polymetrics Conditioners
- Thread starter moneychaser
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Blacktresses
New Member
Bump
Desert Skye
Well-Known Member
I bought some emergencee yesterday because I knew i was going to get a touch up soon. How long should i wait after a touch up to use it?
bajanplums1
Well-Known Member
Thanks Denali! /images/graemlins/clap.gif This is a great thread! I always avoided Emergencee bc I thought it was the same as DRC. /images/graemlins/look.gif So you know I ran out and bought some being the PJ that I am /images/graemlins/wallbash.gif. Now I can't wait for the weekend to wash my hair. /images/graemlins/clap.gif I'm on this once a week wash bc it's getting cold.
So, it is best to alternate weeks with the protein v. polymeric or can I use both in one wash??
So, it is best to alternate weeks with the protein v. polymeric or can I use both in one wash??
lunalight7
New Member
Sounds like those are both poly's Britt...hopefully Supergirl will clarify this soon....(HINT)!!!
lunalight7
New Member
Denali, I was wondering...did the site where u got this info from list protein condits and polymeric condits? What ingredients tell us which is which?
bajanplums1
Well-Known Member
I am under the dryer with the Emergencee. I noticed that the texture of it is like honey, whereas the texture of my DRC is like water. Can't wait to post the results.
moneychaser
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
lunalight7 said:
Denali, I was wondering...did the site where u got this info from list protein condits and polymeric condits? What ingredients tell us which is which?
[/ QUOTE ]
"Nexxus Emergencee is not PROTEIN treatment like Ouidad, Redken Deep Fuel, or even Keraphix." The only polymeric listed was emergencee /images/graemlins/smile.gif
lunalight7 said:
Denali, I was wondering...did the site where u got this info from list protein condits and polymeric condits? What ingredients tell us which is which?
[/ QUOTE ]
"Nexxus Emergencee is not PROTEIN treatment like Ouidad, Redken Deep Fuel, or even Keraphix." The only polymeric listed was emergencee /images/graemlins/smile.gif
pearlygurl
Well-Known Member
Hey ladies
So would it be a good idea to use GPB for protein (to fill) and then follow up with Emergence (to coat)?
So would it be a good idea to use GPB for protein (to fill) and then follow up with Emergence (to coat)?
Dare~to~Dream
Well-Known Member
I ordered a clear rinse/colourshine treatment since it does the same thing.
gymfreak336
New Member
Polymetrics get into the difference between fortifying products and protein products. There really is a difference between the two and IMO they work best when used in tandem. I think alot of people who are experiencing alot of breakage and split ends even after decreasing manipulation and increasing protein usage, need to check out using more polymetric products and other fortification products. Its one thing to replenish protein into your hair but I have found that sealing this in so to speak with products like polymetric conditioners make the treatment more effective. Alot of times when you are suffering from weak hair, its not just protein depleted, your cuticle is also messed up from the constant back and forth swelling of too much moisture. This back and forth can cause the hair to stretch beyond its natural threshold and eventually it will break. This happens alot on the ends of the hair. At that point, a protein treatment just isn't enough. Its more effective to use a protein treatment and them supplement your regime with fortifying products.
This topic really does open up a lot of issues I have noticed for a while in how some of use troubleshoot. We tend to equate hard hair with too much protein which is not effective and our default answer to moisture problems is more moisture conditioner which again is not always effective.
Great thread. Glad is been bumped.
This topic really does open up a lot of issues I have noticed for a while in how some of use troubleshoot. We tend to equate hard hair with too much protein which is not effective and our default answer to moisture problems is more moisture conditioner which again is not always effective.
Great thread. Glad is been bumped.
charmtreese
Well-Known Member
bumping this thread again!!!! I've been using nexxus emergencee as a protein treatment. Now I'm thinking about alternating Joico Kpak or Keraphix and emergencee.
beans4reezy
Well-Known Member
Very interesting, so you do learn something new everyday!
Ronnieaj
New Member
Seriously, this is fascinating! Gymfreak, how do you use the protein treatment with the polymeric treatment? On separate weeks or back to back? I've got an ApHogee treatment coming up next week--should I follow with Emergencee and then a ultra super moisturizing DC, or wait a week, or two, or whatever? Other ladies, what do you think? TIA!
Auburn
New Member
Thank you for bumping this thread. The Lord is going to bless you!
tiffers
Whisper "bleep boop" to yourself when you're sad.
What's this shampoo called? Does it contain SLS?
cherepikr
New Member
I believe it is the Lavish Conditioning Shampoo. I do not have the ingredients.
http://www.motionshair.com/products/product.aspx?id=93
newflowers
New Member
This is new and very interesting information. Given that Nexxus reformulated Emergencee awhile back, is it still a polymetric conditioner? Does anyone know the brand names of other polymetric conditioners?
As I understand it, the deal is to use a protein conditioner to fill in, and then a polymetric conditioner to coat. What about using a porosity control conditioner in the middle? Is there need for a moisturizing conditioner at the end of this process?
More information please!
As I understand it, the deal is to use a protein conditioner to fill in, and then a polymetric conditioner to coat. What about using a porosity control conditioner in the middle? Is there need for a moisturizing conditioner at the end of this process?
More information please!
newflowers
New Member
here's some science...
Advances in Conditioning
Conventional conditioning of damaged hair is commonly achieved by treatment with aqueous formulations that contain fatty alcohols, cationic surfactants and, optionally, silicones. Cationic conditioning polymers can be added to these formulations to enhance conditioning attributes, but the formulator must be careful to avoid increasing viscosity to the extent that facile spreading of the formulation on hair is compromised. However, compositions that readily spread on hair to confer disentangling and feel benefits, can be formulated using a polyol of higher molecular weight than ethylene glycol, and/or an aminosilicone with a cationic polyvinyllactam.18,19
For example, such a conditioner can be prepared from an aqueous base containing 4% Polyquaternium-55 (StylezeW20 from ISP), 4% cetearyl alcohol, 5% glycerin, 2% amodimethicone, 1.5% behenyltrimethylammonium chloride, 5% laureth-4, and 2% mineral oil. Copolymers comprising diallylamine and vinyllactam mono-mers are useful film-formers that confer conditioning properties such as good wet and dry combability feel, volume, and handlability.20 A typical example of a diallylamine is diallyldimethyl ammonium chloride, which is the basic building block of polyquaternium-6; a typical example of a vinyllactam is N-vinyl-2-pyrrolidone, which is the basic building block of PVP.
Multiple Emulsion Benefits
Hair styling creams are emulsions that confer hold and luster to medium length hair. They are usually worked into the hair by hand after they have been rubbed between the palms to melt waxy components. Once on the hair, solvent may evaporate and the composition hardens to fix the hair style and to impart improved shine. More advanced products form fibers when the hands are pulled apart and they can be applied to the hair as a spider-web-like net. Particular skill in formulation is required to make fiber-forming creams that are not sticky or greasy during application. It has now been found that high performance fiber-forming emulsion hair styling creams can be formulated by including a crosslinked silicone polymer (dimethicone crosspolymer), a polyethoxylated compound (PEG-10 or 12, or PEG-x dimethicone), an emulsifier and a fatty phase in the composition.21
Multiple emulsions have tantalized formulators for a considerable time because of the prospect of simultaneous delivery of mutually incompatible ingredients to confer new and useful effects. However, the commercial exploitation of multiple emulsions has been limited by the complexities and difficulties of manufacture and their sensitivity to other formulation ingredients as well as their lack of stability during storage. It is gratifying, therefore, to learn of a water-in-oil-in-water (W/O/W) emulsion that can be made by a single-step process and which exhibits improved storage stability.22 The system comprises an organosiloxane elastomer crosslinked with polyether chains (KSG-210, KSG-310, KSG-320, KSG-340, KSG-710, KSG-810, KSG-820,KSG-830, or KSG-840 from Shin-Etsu Chemical Co.), Sepigel 305 from Seppic and Simulgel RMS being preferred. The W/O/W emulsion can be applied as a conditioner that provides good gloss to the hair.
Polyampholytes have been commercially available as conditioning polymers for a considerable time. A prominent example is polyquaternium-39 (Merquat 3330 from Nalco). An improved version of this type of terpolymer of diallyldimethylammonium chloride, acrylamide, and acrylic acid has been disclosed.23 This polymer is prepared by a monomer feed method for better control of molecular weight and composition.
New Uses for Cassia
Guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride is a cationic polygalactomannan that has been used for three decades as a hair conditioning polymer. Another cationic polygalactomannan, cationic cassia gum, has recently been patented.24 Polygalactomannans consist of a polymannan backbone with galactose side groups. In guar gum, there is a pendant galactose side group for every two mannan backbone units. These galactose groups sterically hinder the substitutable C-6 hydroxyl unit and this limits the extent of possible cationic substitution on guar gum. In cassia, however, there is less steric hindrance of the C-6 hydroxyl group and, consequently, higher degrees of cationic substitution are possible with cassia (60% for cassia relative to 30% for guar). Cationic cassia can be used as a conditioning polymer in shampoos and conditioners to impart cleansing, wet- detangling, dry-detangling and manageability and it is also relatively nonirritating making it suitable for use on children. These cationic polymers operate by depositing a polymer-surfactant complex coacervate that separates as a distinct phase during the rinsing step of the shampoo process. Maximum coacervate deposition occurs at precise ratios of cationic polymer:anionic surfactant but the optimum ratio for coacervation might not coincide with the best ratios for cleaning and foaming. Synthetic copolymers of acrylamide and a triquat monomer are postulated to provide improved deposition on hair and improved conditioning performance with respect to wet combing.25
For more than two decades, most conditioning shampoos have contained dispersed silicone droplets destined to deposit on the hair surface during shampooing to confer conditioning benefits. With multiple uses, however, the silicone can build up on the hair and weigh it down, leading to unattractive “droop” and lack of style. Moreover, the silicone droplets and commonly used suspension stabilizers scatter light and cause the shampoo compositions to lose clarity, or even to be opaque. Now, however, transparent conditioning shampoos can be formulated by including pregelatinized starch with the usual polyquaternium-10 type of polymers in the shampoo composition.26 The pre-gelatinized starch is preferably hydroxypropyl distarch phosphate (Structure XL from National Starch). These do not weigh down the hair with oily deposits and, they are taught to provide excellent performance on frequent and regular use. Formulations based upon cationic polymers and oils have been used to disentangle, and provide softness and flexibility to hair damaged by chemical treatments such as perming, bleaching or dyeing. However, there is a tendency for such formulations to build up on the hair leaving it lank. This drawback can be overcome by deep conditioning. Effective conditioning formulas may contain vegetable oils, (such as olive oil or avocado oil), a cationic polysaccharide and acrylates copolymer (Carbopol Aqua SF-1 Copolymer from Lubrizol Advanced Materials).27 Acrylates copolymer is also useful for thickening conditioning shampoos.28
Another way to minimize buildup is to treat the hair with water-in-water emulsions that can be prepared by including cationic polymers with soluble salts in surfactant compositions.29 These water-in-water emulsions provide conditioning benefits with good spread of the conditioning phase on the hair and less chance of buildup.
Advances in Conditioning
Conventional conditioning of damaged hair is commonly achieved by treatment with aqueous formulations that contain fatty alcohols, cationic surfactants and, optionally, silicones. Cationic conditioning polymers can be added to these formulations to enhance conditioning attributes, but the formulator must be careful to avoid increasing viscosity to the extent that facile spreading of the formulation on hair is compromised. However, compositions that readily spread on hair to confer disentangling and feel benefits, can be formulated using a polyol of higher molecular weight than ethylene glycol, and/or an aminosilicone with a cationic polyvinyllactam.18,19
For example, such a conditioner can be prepared from an aqueous base containing 4% Polyquaternium-55 (StylezeW20 from ISP), 4% cetearyl alcohol, 5% glycerin, 2% amodimethicone, 1.5% behenyltrimethylammonium chloride, 5% laureth-4, and 2% mineral oil. Copolymers comprising diallylamine and vinyllactam mono-mers are useful film-formers that confer conditioning properties such as good wet and dry combability feel, volume, and handlability.20 A typical example of a diallylamine is diallyldimethyl ammonium chloride, which is the basic building block of polyquaternium-6; a typical example of a vinyllactam is N-vinyl-2-pyrrolidone, which is the basic building block of PVP.
Multiple Emulsion Benefits
Hair styling creams are emulsions that confer hold and luster to medium length hair. They are usually worked into the hair by hand after they have been rubbed between the palms to melt waxy components. Once on the hair, solvent may evaporate and the composition hardens to fix the hair style and to impart improved shine. More advanced products form fibers when the hands are pulled apart and they can be applied to the hair as a spider-web-like net. Particular skill in formulation is required to make fiber-forming creams that are not sticky or greasy during application. It has now been found that high performance fiber-forming emulsion hair styling creams can be formulated by including a crosslinked silicone polymer (dimethicone crosspolymer), a polyethoxylated compound (PEG-10 or 12, or PEG-x dimethicone), an emulsifier and a fatty phase in the composition.21
Multiple emulsions have tantalized formulators for a considerable time because of the prospect of simultaneous delivery of mutually incompatible ingredients to confer new and useful effects. However, the commercial exploitation of multiple emulsions has been limited by the complexities and difficulties of manufacture and their sensitivity to other formulation ingredients as well as their lack of stability during storage. It is gratifying, therefore, to learn of a water-in-oil-in-water (W/O/W) emulsion that can be made by a single-step process and which exhibits improved storage stability.22 The system comprises an organosiloxane elastomer crosslinked with polyether chains (KSG-210, KSG-310, KSG-320, KSG-340, KSG-710, KSG-810, KSG-820,KSG-830, or KSG-840 from Shin-Etsu Chemical Co.), Sepigel 305 from Seppic and Simulgel RMS being preferred. The W/O/W emulsion can be applied as a conditioner that provides good gloss to the hair.
Polyampholytes have been commercially available as conditioning polymers for a considerable time. A prominent example is polyquaternium-39 (Merquat 3330 from Nalco). An improved version of this type of terpolymer of diallyldimethylammonium chloride, acrylamide, and acrylic acid has been disclosed.23 This polymer is prepared by a monomer feed method for better control of molecular weight and composition.
New Uses for Cassia
Guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride is a cationic polygalactomannan that has been used for three decades as a hair conditioning polymer. Another cationic polygalactomannan, cationic cassia gum, has recently been patented.24 Polygalactomannans consist of a polymannan backbone with galactose side groups. In guar gum, there is a pendant galactose side group for every two mannan backbone units. These galactose groups sterically hinder the substitutable C-6 hydroxyl unit and this limits the extent of possible cationic substitution on guar gum. In cassia, however, there is less steric hindrance of the C-6 hydroxyl group and, consequently, higher degrees of cationic substitution are possible with cassia (60% for cassia relative to 30% for guar). Cationic cassia can be used as a conditioning polymer in shampoos and conditioners to impart cleansing, wet- detangling, dry-detangling and manageability and it is also relatively nonirritating making it suitable for use on children. These cationic polymers operate by depositing a polymer-surfactant complex coacervate that separates as a distinct phase during the rinsing step of the shampoo process. Maximum coacervate deposition occurs at precise ratios of cationic polymer:anionic surfactant but the optimum ratio for coacervation might not coincide with the best ratios for cleaning and foaming. Synthetic copolymers of acrylamide and a triquat monomer are postulated to provide improved deposition on hair and improved conditioning performance with respect to wet combing.25
For more than two decades, most conditioning shampoos have contained dispersed silicone droplets destined to deposit on the hair surface during shampooing to confer conditioning benefits. With multiple uses, however, the silicone can build up on the hair and weigh it down, leading to unattractive “droop” and lack of style. Moreover, the silicone droplets and commonly used suspension stabilizers scatter light and cause the shampoo compositions to lose clarity, or even to be opaque. Now, however, transparent conditioning shampoos can be formulated by including pregelatinized starch with the usual polyquaternium-10 type of polymers in the shampoo composition.26 The pre-gelatinized starch is preferably hydroxypropyl distarch phosphate (Structure XL from National Starch). These do not weigh down the hair with oily deposits and, they are taught to provide excellent performance on frequent and regular use. Formulations based upon cationic polymers and oils have been used to disentangle, and provide softness and flexibility to hair damaged by chemical treatments such as perming, bleaching or dyeing. However, there is a tendency for such formulations to build up on the hair leaving it lank. This drawback can be overcome by deep conditioning. Effective conditioning formulas may contain vegetable oils, (such as olive oil or avocado oil), a cationic polysaccharide and acrylates copolymer (Carbopol Aqua SF-1 Copolymer from Lubrizol Advanced Materials).27 Acrylates copolymer is also useful for thickening conditioning shampoos.28
Another way to minimize buildup is to treat the hair with water-in-water emulsions that can be prepared by including cationic polymers with soluble salts in surfactant compositions.29 These water-in-water emulsions provide conditioning benefits with good spread of the conditioning phase on the hair and less chance of buildup.
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