Not trying to incite a riot...

[lonelysky]

but could you guys please (calmly and rationally) break it down for me why the relationship between black men and women seems so contentious?

Why is it such a contentious topic for BM to date WW?

Why do BW sometimes feel 'rejected' by BM?

I'm not trying to put anyone down, nor am I trying to troll or start anything.

If I've misunderstood something, please let me know.

My experiences are limited in this realm (I'll share some of them later).

 

[aribell]

Some of the reasons are:

--White women are a cultural ideal in this society, black women are not, and black men prizing white women can often be perceived as buying into the cultural myth that white women are better.

--Some black men more or less do buy into this cultural myth (and thus, we have statements about "good hair" and whatnot, and the whole "light-skinned, long hair" thing).

--More black men marry "white" than black women do. Again, the cultural hierarchy in this society is 1) white male 2) black male 3) white female 4) black female. (Black men could vote before white women could, and a black man was chosen as the Dem. presidential candidate over a white woman). Anyway, b/c of the "hierarchy" black men supposedly can do "better" by marrying a white woman, and a white man would be doing "worse" by marrying a black woman, leaving the perception that black women are the least desired.

--Black families are in turmoil on the whole, leaving a lot of black women with trust, abandonment, and other issues regarding black men. These issues = contention. It has been said that there isn't this cultural baggage with white women, and also that white women have less "attitude"/lower expectations, and some black men seek that out.

People might not agree with these things, and they're constantly changing, but a lot of it is about perceptions at least, and those are some of the factors thrown in there.

ETA: Oh, and there's always plain ole self-hate.

 

[Sweet Charm]

^^^ well said

 

[lonelysky]

nicola-

Do you feel that the family issues play in on the wise that many black fathers are absentee? So BW feel that black men are going to leave them too? Perhaps 'daddy issues' being projected onto the men? And men not knowing how to treat women because they didn't have a father around?

(anyone can answer)


My parents divorced just as I was turning 7. However I also had a lot of (white) friends who's parents were divorcing throughout school.

On the flipside, three of my aunts have been in long term marriages. However, my grandma had 7 children with 4 different men, and none of those men helped raise their children.

However, I never had the concept that absentee fathers was a cultural thing until I got older.

 

[Sweet Charm]

I think some black men associate some problems that they may have had at home when they were younger with black people (male or female)

so maybe there is some hostility or they are just trying to avoid those situations in life

 

[aribell]

nicola-

Do you feel that the family issues play in on the wise that many black fathers are absentee? So BW feel that black men are going to leave them too? Perhaps 'daddy issues' being projected onto the men? And men not knowing how to treat women because they didn't have a father around?

Basically.

And, like it was said, sometimes people do associate their negative experiences with their environment. I had a cousin who got with a white girl, had a baby, and said it was because "all black women are hos." All he ever knew was black women, so whatever that white girl is to him, it's some kind of escape from something, at least he thinks so. The only thing holding his illusion/delusion together is that cultural myth.

I still get angry just thinking about the fact that he made that statement (and to a black woman no less!) But black women can't internalize this stuff. I 100% believe there is love out there for everyone, no matter what the craziness in society happens to be at the moment. We just need to believe it and live in it.

 

[lonelysky]

Why do we internalize this stuff?

I remember when I went to my first dance in sixth grade, I left quite disappointed that I did not get to slow dance with ANYONE. I remember that it was quite discouraging for me.

I remember my mom asked me if I danced with either of the two black boys who were in my grade. I hadn't because they didn't want to dance with me.

My mom said that they were probably in to white girls like their dads.

I didn't understand this. To me it shouldn't have mattered what color someone was.

I kind of felt like the low person on the totem poll. The white boys preferred to dance with the white girls. The black boys wanted to dance with the white girls. What about me? There were other black girls in my class. A couple of them were mixed. One was lighter skinned than me (but she wasn't very attractive and was related to most of the black kids).

As a result, I ended up feeling unpretty to everyone.

I really felt like I got the short stick in some ways because it didn't feel like anyone really knew how to find that black features were attractive. But fortunately, a lot of that started to dissolve as I got older.

 

[seraphim712]

I was wondering the same thing. I was thinking I couldn't see eye to eye with some of the women's POV on here about black men because my negative experience came more from my mom. She would always spread slander about my dad behind his back , always negative toward him, always starting arguments with him and always wearing him down when he was working hard to provide for his family. Everything he would try to build up for us my mom would be the main one to tear it down and then try to convince me to marry a white man because I would live a better lifestyle than if I were to marry a black man. So that left me wondering why people thought so little of black men. I still ask that question now.erplexed

So when I would always see a black woman with a white man, my thoughts would automatically go negative seeing them together because I'd always assume that the black woman thought she was better than her own race or she was 'too good' for a black man because she was with someone white. Like I said this was because of what I saw and experienced growing up in my household, so it usually leaves a lasting effect in a way. I guess I have an opposite response from everyone else...sorry.

 

[princessnad]

Why do we internalize this stuff?

I remember when I went to my first dance in sixth grade, I left quite disappointed that I did not get to slow dance with ANYONE. I remember that it was quite discouraging for me.

I remember my mom asked me if I danced with either of the two black boys who were in my grade. I hadn't because they didn't want to dance with me.

My mom said that they were probably in to white girls like their dads.

I didn't understand this. To me it shouldn't have mattered what color someone was.

I kind of felt like the low person on the totem poll. The white boys preferred to dance with the white girls. The black boys wanted to dance with the white girls. What about me? There were other black girls in my class. A couple of them were mixed. One was lighter skinned than me (but she wasn't very attractive and was related to most of the black kids).

As a result, I ended up feeling unpretty to everyone.

I really felt like I got the short stick in some ways because it didn't feel like anyone really knew how to find that black features were attractive. But fortunately, a lot of that started to dissolve as I got older.

Sounds to me like you understand the answer to the OP. Now imagine you never married your husband and this feeling went throughout adulthood just reincarnating in many different forms.

 

[healthynhappy]

Sounds to me like you understand the answer to the OP. Now imagine you never married your husband and this feeling went throughout adulthood just reincarnating in many different forms.

That's what I was thinking. Sounds like she answered her own question.

 

[Blossssom]

Some of the reasons are:

--White women are a cultural ideal in this society, black women are not, and black men prizing white women can often be perceived as buying into the cultural myth that white women are better.

--Some black men more or less do buy into this cultural myth (and thus, we have statements about "good hair" and whatnot, and the whole "light-skinned, long hair" thing).

--More black men marry "white" than black women do. Again, the cultural hierarchy in this society is 1) white male 2) black male 3) white female 4) black female. (Black men could vote before white women could, and a black man was chosen as the Dem. presidential candidate over a white woman). Anyway, b/c of the "hierarchy" black men supposedly can do "better" by marrying a white woman, and a white man would be doing "worse" by marrying a black woman, leaving the perception that black women are the least desired.

--Black families are in turmoil on the whole, leaving a lot of black women with trust, abandonment, and other issues regarding black men. These issues = contention. It has been said that there isn't this cultural baggage with white women, and also that white women have less "attitude"/lower expectations, and some black men seek that out.

People might not agree with these things, and they're constantly changing, but a lot of it is about perceptions at least, and those are some of the factors thrown in there.

ETA: Oh, and there's always plain ole self-hate.

Now that was a killer post! All true too! Dang, I can't even say the "s" word anymore

Such is life.

Honestly, that Tyra show about "good hair v. bad hair" still bothers me...

 

[ebonylocs]

Hmmm. I agree with NicoleKirwan's analysis. However. You should recognise that these things are magnified and blown to huge proportions on the web. In real life many people don't bother themselves with these issues. I live in London, UK, a place where, if you believe some BW, no BM ever looked at a BW. However I see black couples everyday, happy, at ease, loving each other, living their lives. The "war" is largely a product of the media - be it internet, radio shows, or tv chat shows.

 

[aribell]

Hmmm. I agree with NicoleKirwan's analysis. However. You should recognise that these things are magnified and blown to huge proportions on the web. In real life many people don't bother themselves with these issues. I live in London, UK, a place where, if you believe some BW, no BM ever looked at a BW. However I see black couples everyday, happy, at ease, loving each other, living their lives. The "war" is largely a product of the media - be it internet, radio shows, or tv chat shows.

I agree. This is one of those things that you can choose to allow to define you or choose to ignore. Not that it's always easy, but it gets much easier the longer you ignore it and go about your life.

 

[naturalmanenyc]

I have nothing to add as I have never experienced this. However, I was fascinated last night at a party wherein most of the Black men with natural hair (locks and afro's) were with White women. I had never noticed so many interracial couples in Brooklyn before last night and the natural hair aspect of it had me curious if their hair played any part in the attraction by White women?

 

[Dposh167]

Hmmm. I agree with NicoleKirwan's analysis. However. You should recognise that these things are magnified and blown to huge proportions on the web. .

I agree.
The thing about the internet is that it gives people a chance to get really raunchy, honest, and blatant. Yeah, we have books, magazine articles, newspapers, and tv programs which can exploit these ideas. But some of those forms of media (exception to books) can get heavily edited and may just scratch the surface.
With internet you're getting the un-bias, un-edited version of what people REALLY think. and to be honest...its horrifying at times.

 

[Farida]

I do think a lot of it does get exaggerated, because statistics show that most black married men are married to black women.

The thing really is not to internalize it. Try your best not to.

 

[calmsensual1]

Have any of you guys ever seen diary of a tired black man?

I just downloaded it a few weeks ago and I thought it was pretty good.

Its basically a documentary with interviews from people on the street and their opinions of the whole black man/black woman/white woman issue. But its more from a male POV

 

[BroadstreetBully]

I have nothing to add as I have never experienced this. However, I was fascinated last night at a party wherein most of the Black men with natural hair (locks and afro's) were with White women. I had never noticed so many interracial couples in Brooklyn before last night and the natural hair aspect of it had me curious if their hair played any part in the attraction by White women?

I'm seeing quite a few BW/WM couples where the woman is natural or in locs.

 

[aribell]

I'm seeing quite a few BW/WM couples where the woman is natural or in locs.

In my experience, when I was natural, white men often saw it as interesting and exotic. I remember one day I did these wild twists all over my head, and all the white guys were like "Neat!" "Awesome!" etc., and the one black guy that made a comment said something to the effect that I should loc my hair so that it would grow long and I could swing it.