My Experimentation With Loc Method Vs. Lc Method

[almond eyes]

Dear Ladies,

I am not sure is it me, but I find that when I use liquid (warm water in a bottle or the liquid from after having just freshly washed my hair), and then my cream and oil (in my case olive oil, jojoba whatever I have on hand) my hair doesn't hold onto the moisture for a long time. Even with the Liquid Oil and Cream the same thing.

The other day, I got lazy and didn't add the extra oil to my Liquid and Leave in (Creamy). My creamy leave ins already have the right proportion of oils and an emulsifier to help the water and oil to play together nicely.

I found out the next day that my hair held the moisture for a long time and I could keep it in the protective style for at least another day before remoisturising.

I know that we often discuss how oil and water do not mix but why do we insist upon the LOC, LCO method. Unless your leave in doesn't have oil and most leave ins do why add the extra oil which to me causes the hair to lose moisture. I have also tried warm water and shea butter alone and that also causes my hair to dry up very quickly.

So, for me what works is warm water spritz or creamy leave in spritz and then a creamy moisturizer that contains the right chemistry. My adding the extra oil throws it all off.

Best,
Almond Eyes

 

[beingofserenity]

Oil does nothing for me except make my hair oily

 

[almond eyes]

Oil does nothing for me except make my hair oily

True, true.

I really believe now that the best leave ins that contains these good oils also have an emulsifier to help the products work best. The whole oil adding extra oil as a sealant causes break outs and causes the liquid to lose moisture on the hair.

Best,
Almond Eyes

 

[NowIAmNappy]

Its different for everyone. In my experience a simple liquid and cream is not enough. I use oils but in a different way, for my hair I add the liquid and cream straight from the shower and then let my hair completely soak those products in and then when my hair is about 80-90% dry I add it a light oil.

ETA it also matters what season it is, in the spring/summer I might use a light oil sometimes no oil if I'm going to be washing/rinsing/cowashing in a few days; but, in the winter I have to use a heavy butter, my hair will dry out in the bitter cold.

 

[caliscurls]

You have a good point @almond eyes . I've been curious about this myself the past few months and am coming to the realization that the LOC method ( or any variation of it) daily may not be optimum for my hair and best left for wash days only. Used regularly my hair seems drier.

A light liquid / cream followed by a light oil or sometimes butter works better daily. I'm curious how it will respond to just the liquid or cream with the right ingredients though so will test it out.

 

[ckisland]

@almond eyes , I know what you mean. I was never really into "sealing" my leave-in or what have you with oil. For my hair, gel is the absolute best sealant. When my hair was long, I would get a week out of my wash n'go using V05 and Ecostyler. I wouldn't apply leave-in or moisturizer in between. I knew my hair was sealed because I could go out in rain and my hair wouldn't fro up on me .

Also all oils and butters are not created equal. Shea butter is absolutely horrible for my hair, but I use coconut, or sweet almond, oil as a moisturizer and it works great. I don't apply it just on wet hair either. I use coconut oil like I would any other leave-in. I got this from Zhara from fotki (butt-length natural), who used coconut oil as her primary moisturizer for like 5 years.

Honestly, I could never get down with the LOC method because it just seemed like too many steps to be doing on a regular basis . In my 8 years of trying all sorts of products, bentonite clay has been the best thing since sliced bread for my hair. If I could only use 3 products for the rest of my life, they would be bentonite clay, AO GPB condish, and coconut oil. My hair would be bomb and down to my butt

 

[prettykinks]

I understand what you mean @almond eyes . For my hair it depends on the weather and if I am co washing or deep conditioning. In winter I use heavy oils like olive oil and put lots of Shea butter on my hair. During warmer weather I tend to use grapeseed oil and coconut oils mostly with mixes of other oils. If I am deep conditioning I will use oils in that and not put a oil on after. I use shea butter all year so that is always in the mix.

 

[almond eyes]

Its different for everyone. In my experience a simple liquid and cream is not enough. I use oils but in a different way, for my hair I add the liquid and cream straight from the shower and then let my hair completely soak those products in and then when my hair is about 80-90% dry I add it a light oil.

ETA it also matters what season it is, in the spring/summer I might use a light oil sometimes no oil if I'm going to be washing/rinsing/cowashing in a few days; but, in the winter I have to use a heavy butter, my hair will dry out in the bitter cold.

I know what some women do is only use the oil straight out of the shower but then not use oil again until wash day.

I used to do that as well but I found that oil again just sucked up the moisture from my shampoo/conditioner washes. I think if you have a low porosity hair type your hair may be able to soak up the oil a bit better.

Now, my creamy leave ins contain shea butter so I don't see the need to add the additional shea butter itself on top of that shea butter leave in.

Best,
Almond Eyes

 

[almond eyes]

I even wonder about this pre poo thing, if oil and water don't mix and it doesn't properly hold that moisture when the water hits it aren't we better using our leave ins as a pre poo because at least the leave ins have an emulsifier.

Best,
Almond Eyes

 

[Coilystep]

I find I don't have to use any additional oils in my hair. What's in my conditioners and stylers are sufficient. I think everyone is different and you just have experiment and find what works.

 

[almond eyes]

I find I don't have to use any additional oils in my hair. What's in my conditioners and stylers are sufficient. I think everyone is different and you just have experiment and find what works.

I think sometimes we see that this is the LOC method and we think it has to work, and even when it isn't working we try to make it work. I have learnt that we don't need additional oils to seal the hair if your product contains an oil. And when your hair gets dry due to the oil we may think it is protein overload from a leave in product when it could be the extra added oil as the sealant.

Best,
Almond Eyes

 

[GGsKin]

I took me a while to find an oil my hair liked. Earlier this year, I almost convinced myself not to bother with it. Now I use grapeseed/ sunflower oils while still in the shower, or immediately after I get out. My hair seems to absorb these (and jojoba oil) unlike olive oil. I haven't tried many leave-ins but I prefer not to use any, especially when wearing my hair out (wash and go). I use diluted Kinky Curly Curling Custard to 'seal'. I love this gel, and diluting it leaves me flakefree. I can go four days without adding more product (just some shower steam or a little rewetting in the shower. My hair still feels good after day four but I must wash (water only or clay) to remove shed hairs and thoroughly add moisture.

 

[julzinha]

I think sometimes we see that this is the LOC method and we think it has to work, and even when it isn't working we try to make it work. I have learnt that we don't need additional oils to seal the hair if your product contains an oil. And when your hair gets dry due to the oil we may think it is protein overload from a leave in product when it could be the extra added oil as the sealant.

Best,
Almond Eyes

I completely agree, I think the thing that helped me the most was when I stopped listening to natural blogs and videos that had no adequate science backing it so essentially it was all speculation. My hair did a 180 when I stopped listening to most naturals including no more cowashing, stronger protein with hydrolyzed proteins, stopped sealing just using a dab of oil here and there, learning water is not my best friend, and not moisturizing daily

Sometimes, I feel like if you have to defer to the LOC method, you need to find a better leave in or use a better protein treatment so you hair can hold water better.

 

[HappyAtLast]

I agree. I stopped "sealing" several months back because I realized that when I used my leave-in without sealing, my hair stayed moist longer. My leave-ins already have the right balance of oils. I figured the extra oil I was applying was degrading/breaking down the chemical makeup of my leave-in.

I also don't need to seal when I use my homemade glycerin spritz.

The only time I apply oil now is directly to my flat ironed hair. (macadamia oil) It makes my flat ironed hair feel awesome amd moisturized but not greasy.

 

[HappyAtLast]

I even wonder about this pre poo thing, if oil and water don't mix and it doesn't properly hold that moisture when the water hits it aren't we better using our leave ins as a pre poo because at least the leave ins have an emulsifier.

Best,
Almond Eyes

The oil prepoo never worked for me (or "oil rinsing"), but coating my hair in Aussie Moist prewash to detangle (my version of a prepoo) always did my hair right.

When I skipped that step for several months, I ended up with a ton of split ends for the first time ever in my natural hair.

 

[almond eyes]

From the comments, I can see that I am not the only one to feel this way about the extra oil.

I think the extra oil can have it's place when your hair is straight, blow dried or relaxed.

If your leave in moisturiser has an oil look to see if it has an emulsifier. The emulsifier will bond the liquid and the oils. You don't need to add the extra oil. Conditioners also contain emulsifiers which is why the pre poo with the conditioners and leave in conditioners may be a better option than adding that coating of oil you don't need it.

Best,
Almond Eyes

 

[beingofserenity]

The only time oil worked for me was when I was relaxed or had straightened hair.

 

[IDareT'sHair]

I get my best results doing the LOC/LCO is when I Baggy for a few hours.

When I'm super dry, a couple hours under a Baggy works great for me.

@almond eyes

 

[almond eyes]

I get my best results doing the LOC/LCO is when I Baggy for a few hours.

When I'm super dry, a couple hours under a Baggy works great for me.

@almond eyes

Have you ever tried the LOC/LCO without the oil part making sure that your leave in has an emulsifier and that you have spritzed with a liquid?

I think if you have fine strands you don't want to baggy consistently because your hair stays wet and that can weaken your hair strands over time.

For me what is working now is liquid and my leave ins that contain an oil and emulsifier already. Skipping the extra oil as a sealant is helping me to retain moisture.

But yes, in the past my LOC/LCO methods worked with a baggy.

Last year, I added oil to my trader joe tea tree tingle conditioner and the oil just stayed floating to the top it never mixed with the conditioner no matter how much I shook the bottle hard. And when I used it in the shower my hair just felt strangely hard.

Best,
Almond Eyes

 

[IDareT'sHair]

Have you ever tried the LOC/LCO without the oil part making sure that your leave in has an emulsifier and that you have spritzed with a liquid?

Best,
Almond Eyes

@almond eyes

Yes! Absolutely. I have baggied with just L and/or just C and/or just O. (Mostly ED JBCO)

And only for a few hours.

 

[HaveSomeWine]

I do a leave in conditioner with a serum. I no longer do the C step. Curling creams make my hair crunchy and hard. My wash and goes look the same with and without the C step so I no longer do it. I don't think my hair like regular oil to seal with. As a hot oil treatment, yes, but as the O in LOC, I'm pretty sure it left my hair a werd texture.

 

[almond eyes]

Some curling creams contain glycerins and glycerins like oil don't like water to be added or the hair gets hard and crunchy.

Oils do not have the ability to penetrate the hair shaft with water or on it's own just like that. I think coconut oil may be the only oil with that ability but many women cannot use coconut oil near their hair or skin because it can clog the skin pores.

Some months ago, I purchased a natural hair conditioner from a mixologist, and she didn't use any emulsifier. And I at the time I didn't know anything about the importance of emulsifiers to bond the oil and water elements better. Many natural hair mixologists are extremely against chemicals but sometimes they don't understand the purpose of these binding agents. I used the product and my hair just felt very dry and the oil from the pure shea never fully penetrated either.

Best,
Almond Eyes

 

[charmtreese]

Creams do nothing for my hair. I'm the opposite of you OP. I do just LO or LB to touch up my moisture levels during the week. On wash days I normally do LOBG (liquid, oil, butter, gel or liquid, butter, oil, gel). I probably could get away with LBG, but I love me some castor oil and I would hate to omit it from my wash day routine! The liquid is normally a leave-in containing protein, oil is normally regular castor or JBCO, and the b is a shea butter mix.

 

[IDareT'sHair]

@charmtreese
Nice Review and Explanation

 

[almond eyes]

Creams do nothing for my hair. I'm the opposite of you OP. I do just LO or LB to touch up my moisture levels during the week. On wash days I normally do LOBG (liquid, oil, butter, gel or liquid, butter, oil, gel). I probably could get away with LBG, but I love me some castor oil and I would hate to omit it from my wash day routine! The liquid is normally a leave-in containing protein, oil is normally regular castor or JBCO, and the b is a shea butter mix.

I think the fact that the creams or leave in conditioners already have the oils was my ah ha moment that I didn't need to add any more extra oil and that was not actually allowing the liquid from my water or liquid leave in or cream with water in the ingredients list to hold onto that moisture for a prolonged period of time and that is what we want to do so if we wear protective styles we don't have to keep untwisting unbraiding and unravelling on a daily basis.

I know some women use the liquid and the oil or a combo of liquid oil butter and gel. For women who are low porosity this may help but I still don't understand how as oils do not penetrate and oils and water do not mix unless your product has an emulsifier. But if your hair is high porosity, I would stay away from adding extra oils to your routine especially if your leave ins have oils or butters already. Now, I was religiously adding oils to my routine for years and I thought it did the trick but when I got lazy and didn't use the extra oil as a sealant, I was amazed. It made me realize that I was fooling myself about my moisture level using extra oils all these years. And I will not be spending so much money again on all of these expensive oils.

I also wonder about the effects of the constant mechanical friction of using extra oils on a regular basis which don't actually penetrate the hair down the shaft but sit on the hair especially if you have fine hair. I think that would have an effect on your cuticles in the long run.

Best,
Almond Eyes

 

[almond eyes]

Creams do nothing for my hair. I'm the opposite of you OP. I do just LO or LB to touch up my moisture levels during the week. On wash days I normally do LOBG (liquid, oil, butter, gel or liquid, butter, oil, gel). I probably could get away with LBG, but I love me some castor oil and I would hate to omit it from my wash day routine! The liquid is normally a leave-in containing protein, oil is normally regular castor or JBCO, and the b is a shea butter mix.

Can you find a leave in protein that has those oils you mentioned? My question is why add the extra oils. And if you are using the extra oil then how do you know if the extra oil is truly penetrating and not just sitting on your hair especially if you may have low porosity hair that already takes forever to dry when even plain water is just placed on the hair.

Best,
Almond Eyes

 

[charmtreese]

Can you find a leave in protein that has those oils you mentioned? My question is why add the extra oils. And if you are using the extra oil then how do you know if the extra oil is truly penetrating and not just sitting on your hair especially if you may have low porosity hair that already takes forever to dry when even plain water is just placed on the hair.

Best,
Almond Eyes

I have found creamy leave-ins with all the oils that I like, however I prefer protein liquid/spray leave-ins and then additional "whole" oils and or butters.

I find that for my hair type cream based products contain too many fillers thus resulting in crunchy, oily hair once the water from the product evaporates.

My hair likes humactents, rich butters, and penetrating oil. I like my oils like I like my men straight with no chaser J/K! But, honestly I think that because my hair is fine, my focus is on filling in gaps and trapping in/retaining moisture, and I can do that by using a reconstructing spray leave-in and "whole" oil(s).

I also rely heavily on my deep conditioner to have done its job, which is why I always DC when I wash my hair and I never use a rinse out as a deep conditioner. My moisture should come predominantly from my DC, therefore I see no need to add an additional creamy leave-in if my DC has done it's job.

 

[Crystalicequeen123]

Honestly, I could never get down with the LOC method because it just seemed like too many steps to be doing on a regular basis . In my 8 years of trying all sorts of products, bentonite clay has been the best thing since sliced bread for my hair. If I could only use 3 products for the rest of my life, they would be bentonite clay, AO GPB condish, and coconut oil. My hair would be bomb and down to my butt

Where do you buy your bentonite clay from? I think I may have to order online...

 

[almond eyes]

I have found creamy leave-ins with all the oils that I like, however I prefer protein liquid/spray leave-ins and then additional "whole" oils and or butters.

I find that for my hair type cream based products contain too many fillers thus resulting in crunchy, oily hair once the water from the product evaporates.

My hair likes humactents, rich butters, and penetrating oil. I like my oils like I like my men straight with no chaser J/K! But, honestly I think that because my hair is fine, my focus is on filling in gaps and trapping in/retaining moisture, and I can do that by using a reconstructing spray leave-in and "whole" oil(s).

I also rely heavily on my deep conditioner to have done its job, which is why I always DC when I wash my hair and I never use a rinse out as a deep conditioner. My moisture should come predominantly from my DC, therefore I see no need to add an additional creamy leave-in if my DC has done it's job.

Thanks. I get your point too. You use a protein leave in that has no oil and then use additional stuff to plump your moisture. I use a protein leave in that has an oil already so I don't have to add anything additionally which is saving me a ton of money.

The point wasn't to get women to use an additional creamy leave in. The point was not to add additional oil to a leave in that has oil. So if your conditioners and leave ins (creamy or other wise I just used the word creamy) have oil or butters already don't add the additional oil. But you are saying that the additional oils and butter add moisture to your hair for me when I experimented I was shocked to see that I didn't actually need all that extra stuff if my leave in and conditioners had all of the properties it needed from the beginning and I was actually changing the effectiveness of the product.

My hair is also fine and I found that in the past when I was natural the more oils, butters and humectants I used the more heavy handed and the more products I had to use and the more greasier and weighed down my hair looked. Now this time around natural my hair does well with twice a month protein treatments to retain moisture and a light protein moisturizer which I have now started to use again but keep that in heavy rotation with my leave in moisturizer that has no protein at all. I think all one needs is a water bottle and their leave in that contains a good oil and an emulsifier or a good oil/protein/emulsifier. And the water bottle can have whatever you want inside. I just stick to plain old water.

Best,
Almond Eyes

 

[ckisland]

Where do you buy your bentonite clay from? I think I may have to order online...

I ordered mine from Bulk Apothecary when I ordered a bunch of oils and cocoa butter. I used the Aztec Healing Clay brand, and I think it's sold in some health stores on the ground. Next time I'm trying to order it from someplace with really really low shipping, because I only want the clay and one other thing.